Dog Days Exploit Hot Fix Red Text, Don't talk down at your supporters DE

[bibmobello]

I made only the missions to get the catalyst,  firing waster with balloons and lifebelt would have been fun if i was  12...

In my opinion they should use their resources to develop the so much requested "endgame", High ML needed, no operator, no arcanes, no energy pizzas and health , selectable starting  enemy level 100+, limited revives. You will see that people will start to cooperate because solo will be impossible.

Edited August 7, 2019 by bibmobello

[Spookmineer]

That will only push people to try that solo anyway, just to see if it's achievable.

People soloing sortie 3 missions with unmodded frames.

[_junguler]

if this red text guy has a habit of getting under your skin there is a solution for it, don't read what it says. as for devs being out of touch and not familiar with their own game, well this is not news to us ...

[VanFanel1980mx]

3 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Each to their own I guess. I do believe it is better for gameplay design to actually require a co-operative group for the hardest of the hard however, because otherwise you have to find a way to scale the enemies down so that it's completable for the solo player. Due to the nature of the balance changes I'd like to see the solo player will only be able to fulfill a singlular role in a team, whilst the content that they'll be fighting is designed for a team with someone in every role.

In that regard, you would in fact be forced to play a certain frame much to your disliking, as you'd have to pick a jack of all trades and perform every role at once against enemies designed to be fighting 4 people.

Let's say I don't mind having a slower fight as a solo player when compared to a team, being able to use cover and other tactics to compensate for the lack of a team, probably giving a bit of emphasis to items, but certainly not to the point of dying instantly to a sneeze or having all my abilities negated to "add challenge" otherwise I would play any other shooter out there.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

4 hours ago, Klokwerkaos said:

Stuff

 

>posting feedback in general discussion

>acting like everyone shares your opinion

>acting like you can speak for anyone but yourself

 

Exploits getting fixed isnt bad. And he's got a point that the same people who constantly whine about warframe being too easy tend to be the ones that have to min max and or cheese everything.

Warframe is fine the way it is.

 

[microArc]

you do realize that only like 3% of Warframe's players make it to this "endgame", right?

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

30 minutes ago, bibmobello said:

I made only the missions to get the catalyst,  firing waster with balloons and lifebelt would have been fun if i was  12...

In my opinion they should use their resources to develop the so much requested "endgame", High ML needed, no operator, no arcanes, no energy pizzas and health , selectable starting  enemy level 100+, limited revives. You will see that people will start to cooperate because solo will be impossible.

No, instead you will see lots of new complaints in the forum because of how hard the game is. 

If there's anything i learn in this forum, people will always find something to complain about, because we are helpless without it. Take this thread for example. 

[VanFanel1980mx]

2 hours ago, Firetrucksrule said:

Except arbitrations ESO and nightwave are all objectively easy. ESO and arbitrations were promised as end game content but they both released easier than other hard content in the game. The problem is anytime DE releases something even moderately difficult players who can't do it for whatever reason throw a hissy fit instead of grinding better stuff or improving their own game. 

Players who wanted to do it but aren't able to do it has to do with the rewards too, if "end game" content is meant for the challenge then the rewards need to be more symbolic (like, literally elite cosmetics or something) and less practical like resources and weapon components, at least having a few of them tradeable was ok, I know vanilla Onslaught isn't supposed to count but I wish Khora components were tradeable as well, or as usual they used a token system like a lot of players suggest, Nightwave almost got it right but denied enough tokens as it is to players who prefer the alert system due to the amount of chances they got for important components, Arbitrations have done the same since they got special rewards in their drop table.

[bibmobello]

1 minute ago, (PS4)ATreidezz said:

No, instead you will see lots of new complaints in the forum because of how hard the game is. 

 If there's anything i learn in this forum, people will always find something to complain about, because we are helpless without it. Take this thread for example. 

I think most new players complain about difficulty because most nodes are dead and it's hard  to find players for such nodes. The lack of tutorials in game is another big problem.

[bibmobello]

3 minutes ago, VanFanel1980mx said:

Players who wanted to do it but aren't able to do it has to do with the rewards too, if "end game" content is meant for the challenge then the rewards need to be more symbolic (like, literally elite cosmetics or something) and less practical like resources and weapon components, at least having a few of them tradeable was ok, I know vanilla Onslaught isn't supposed to count but I wish Khora components were tradeable as well, or as usual they used a token system like a lot of players suggest, Nightwave almost got it right but denied enough tokens as it is to players who prefer the alert system due to the amount of chances they got for important components, Arbitrations have done the same since they got special rewards in their drop table.

I repeated many times that many players like to have only challenges. Ok you farmed for thousand of hours to get the best equipment, now you wanna try it even for only a name on a leaderboard.

Edited August 7, 2019 by bibmobello

[VanFanel1980mx]

6 minutes ago, bibmobello said:

I repeated many times that many players like to have only challenges. Ok you farmed for thousand of hours to get the best equipment, now you wanna try it even for only a name on a leaderboard.

That's OK, but then any "end game" challenge added has to avoid having anything important like new frames, components or resources the general public will want to obtain.

[bibmobello]

Just now, VanFanel1980mx said:

That's OK, but then any "end game" challenge added has to avoid having anything important like new frames, components or resources the general public will want to obtain.

Obviously otherwise what endgame is? At most you should get some stupid rare ephemera only to incentivize some completionist.

[VanFanel1980mx]

Just now, bibmobello said:

Obviously otherwise what endgame is? At most you should get some stupid rare ephemera only to incentivize some completionist.

I prefer emblems and glyphs.

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

Just now, bibmobello said:

I think most new players complain about difficulty because most nodes are dead and it's hard  to find players for such nodes. The lack of tutorials in game is another big problem.

We have something called RECRUIT TAB. Its actually a feature.

Regardless, if you look deeper, you'll see players complain about the difficulties and inconvenience of NW, Arbitration, Onslaught, be it from vets or newbs. Nothing new, this is our community, to be exact, the complain circle of our community, one ask to up/lower the difficulty, then another will complain of how hard/easy it is, then others will ask to up/lower the difficulty again, and on and on... 

[bibmobello]

2 minutes ago, VanFanel1980mx said:

I prefer emblems and glyphs.

The grime reality is the game is really bad balanced, i think it's impossible to rewrite all the rules without remaking the whole game... Eso should have been a sort of endgame but at the end is only a place to master stuff..

[bibmobello]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)ATreidezz said:

We have something called RECRUIT TAB. Its actually a feature.

Regardless, if you look deeper, you'll see players complain about the difficulties and inconvenience of NW, Arbitration, Onslaught, be it from vets or newbs. Nothing new, this is our community, to be exact, the complain circle of our community, one ask to up/lower the difficulty, then another will complain of how hard/easy it is, then others will ask to up/lower the difficulty again, and on and on... 

Most people have no idea what a recruit chat is because in game noone explains there is one... 

[VanFanel1980mx]

4 minutes ago, bibmobello said:

The grime reality is the game is really bad balanced, i think it's impossible to rewrite all the rules without remaking the whole game... Eso should have been a sort of endgame but at the end is only a place to master stuff..

That's probably because leveling up is painful and DE refuses to just allow power leveling without some kind of penalty.

[(PSN)Yes-Man-Kablaam]

Remember when a few weeks ago red text made fun of everyone by saying everyone basically didn't have friends? That was a laugh... But now THIS is JUST TOO FAR.... likereally calm down. Though cheaters and exploiters do always get extremely defensive when called out on it just take the lump c'mon.

[Klokwerkaos]

2 hours ago, George_PPS said:

This game is not designed just for veterans or players who like to complain. Just take a break if you need to. Almost 4000 hours in, I am still enjoying select end game contents daily. Have you even achieved everything? Done 1000 sets of Eidolong hunting? Min-maxed everything? Just relax and chill. It’s just a fun game. 

Dude, I took an 8 month break, and farmed everything I missed in 3.5 days, and most of that was building time.  That's not a viable answer to use anymore, not when someone can do a year's worth of content in days without knowing what happened.  There are underlying problems with warframe you're either ignorant to, or are intentionally ignoring.

If it were a fun game, there wouldn't be a chorus of voices singing the same song about how warframe has the same issues for the last several years.

There are "fun parts" yes.  But on the whole the attention given to players who have heavily invested in the game is critically negligent.

If vets were children, CPS would have stepped in long ago.

 

[Klokwerkaos]

1 hour ago, bibmobello said:

I think most new players complain about difficulty because most nodes are dead and it's hard  to find players for such nodes. The lack of tutorials in game is another big problem.

Uh, I don't think I ever have much trouble with dead nodes... and if nodes are dead, that's still the fault of the design team by not making the gameplay loop rewarding enough in some unique way.

[Klokwerkaos]

1 hour ago, bibmobello said:

Most people have no idea what a recruit chat is because in game noone explains there is one... 

That's also a failure of the new player experience, and credit to that once again goes to who?  DE.

Edited August 7, 2019 by Klokwerkaos

[Klokwerkaos]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Yes-Man-Kablaam said:

Remember when a few weeks ago red text made fun of everyone by saying everyone basically didn't have friends? That was a laugh... But now THIS is JUST TOO FAR.... likereally calm down. Though cheaters and exploiters do always get extremely defensive when called out on it just take the lump c'mon.

To address that, i really don't care about the rewards and the exploit, I personally am not invested.  I played it, had my fun, got a ball for my dojo and was out.

I'm more concerned about DE showing once again, how they don't give a crap about the real problems in the game because they are just happy enough to keep siphoning cash from new players based on previous good will.

Fixing the exploit was good, making fun of people's legitimate gripe's about their own failings, in such a way that blames the player and not DE, that's where I am pissed.

This is their game, their problem, and the failures of the game that have been stated ad infinitum are theirs and theirs only to own and frankly, abdicating responsibility might even be funny if they weren't so negligent to certain issues...  Like I said, it's the same issue as the ooblets thing.

Edited August 7, 2019 by Klokwerkaos

[Vox_Preliator]

I mean, if you're using what is clearly an exploit, I don't think you really have any reason to be upset when that exploit is removed.

And man, I'm all for people being more aware of both what and how things are said along with how the implications of those words affect others, but this ain't something to be upset about.  You're interpreting things that aren't even remotely there unless you deliberately cherry-pick and ignore so much to reach your conclusions.  Red Text is a goof, that is their entire character, and the statement in question is lambasting both the players who weren't playing AND the gamemode (and themselves by extension) for being a mode that people didn't want to play because not doing so was just as rewarding.  They didn't even change the one-kill-and-hide strategy, they just fixed 0-0 being a win and time passing while time is stopped.

Not to mention your OP is intentionally preemptively both stifling discussion and attempting to discredit counterpoints by labeling everyone who disagrees, regardless of arguments, as white knights.  So it's not even worth pointing out the fallacies in the OP, nor is it worth writing the long list of things that contradict the points made, because your OP suggests that it'll be ignored and dismissed without a second glance.  Yet some of your points hold value, but being associated with such a toxic post only serves to damage them.

What gets me, though, is that you don't even want to accomplish anything with this thread but farm upvotes, because if that wasn't the case you would have posted your addressed-to-DE thread somewhere other than General Discussion, the section that is specifically for players to discuss generally and isn't regularly reviewed by staff.

[SenorClipClop]

I think you took a bit of redtext far too personally and extrapolated it really far.

7 hours ago, Klokwerkaos said:

Like everything else, DE will band aid the situation

I may be biased because extra pearls for kills was something I asked for, but it sounds to me like they fixed the problem in this case. People can still AFK and their progress will remain as it did (something they still need to fix), but now active players get to reduce their grind.

7 hours ago, Klokwerkaos said:

which is to either lower the cost, or incentivise the intended gameplay loop to a point where it feels rewarding,

The fact that Dog Days is easily AFK-able means that we'd see people AFKing whether they had to do 100 missions or just 10. The amount of grind is a point of conjecture (it largely depends on how important getting everything means to a player), but the better solution is to mitigate exploitative gameplay. The best solution is to make gameplay more interesting -- better rewards doesn't mean a player will have more fun playing your game or that your game is better. But in the end, if players can find a sustainable way not to play the game but earn the rewards from it, many will. Lower gameplay "requirements" won't make players any less lazy.

 

[DOOMPATRIOT]

hace 7 horas, Klokwerkaos dijo:

Red text read at 2 min mark: "We will be running a test to see if there is a correlation between people using this exploit and people who complain that warframe is boring".

So yes, I get that red text is cheeky as a matter of historical precedent.

I also get that dog days was not a serious event and was designed to be a bit of cheeky fun that deviates from standard warframe edgelordiness...

The problem I have here is that it shows pretty clearly the Devs still don't take seriously or want to understand the problem of people complaining about warframe being too easy, especially when there are tons of people whining daily about how it's too hard.  This is because they don't understand how to balance the gameplay reward loop vs monetization after all these years to a place where players are happy, or perhaps, that there is outside pressure from their publishers in China, either way, it ends up being a very crappy experience for players.

Here's the thing... Dog Days WAS indeed a great bit of fun... for four missions... however, grinding out 2000+ peals with the current rewards system to obtain some silly cosmetic items that have literally no bearing on gameplay and a few trash mods that maybe five people will find useful, well... guess what, that means if TONS of people are using that exploit that it's PREFERABLE to your designed gameplay loop AND THAT IS THE CORE PROBLEM.

Like everything else, DE will band aid the situation rather than addressing the core issue, which is to either lower the cost, or incentivise the intended gameplay loop to a point where it feels rewarding, which is what many people did... by suggesting kills grant pearls, which is entirely reasonable.

You don't get to pin this on the players DE, that's bad PR, it's your game, your problem, and this has all the problems as the ooblets announcement for Epic, it completely has an important issue to address, but does it in a way that completely ignores legitimate issues and antagonizes the fanbase.  It's crappy. 

Players have legitimate reasons to be frustrated with you and your failure to provide rewarding endgame content of any kind for literally YEARS at this point. 

To be very clear, because of your insane requirements for grind for silly cosmetic items, YOU AND YOU ALONE are responsible for this.  You failed to code it correctly, and you failed to create a rewarding gameplay loop AND YOU put out a half baked event with an exploit and expected people to do what you wanted, which is grind for HOURS on end in a repetitive to death gameplay loop, rather than what they wanted, which was to earn rewards at a reasonable rate. 

To be honest, this is why I really have come to have straight up IRE for DE at this point.  You guys are, each year, eating up more and more good will that you earned in the early days, in exchange for the scummy bussiness practices of EA, Activision and other predatory companies.  I know you've taken some steps to avoid that by trying to please players... like removing random lootbox mods... BUT HOW MANY YEARS DID PEOPLE HAVE TO COMPLAIN BEFORE YOU STOPPED THAT?  Did it happen in a timely fashion, years ago when people first complained about it, or did it happen right around the time that lootboxes started getting governmental bannings that would keep your game out of certain countries?

People have legitimate problems with your game DE.  That's real.

There are real and serious problems to address.

I can and have historically supported the company financially in the past even though I literally need nothing in the game because I have everything for the core gameplay experience... I have done so to the extent where I've spent many, many more dollars than the average player, but this is legitimately the breaking point for me at this point.  From here on out, until I see significant improvement in your care for dealing with these core issues, you will not be seeing any more money from me personally.

To be clear, this isn't the "ONE BIG THING" this is the straw that broke the camels back after literally years of negligence on your part.

Further, I predict, if you guys continue down this road, while I am not the first and certainly won't be the last to make such a proclomation, I believe this problem will start getting worse. 

The gameplay landscape is changing as a whole and people are truly getting fed up with developers and publisher's nonsense.  Even your own long standing youtube partners, many of them are off doing other games entirely because you can't maintain the good will you used to while also seeking to siphon players of their time and money rather than just making a good game.

That's it for DE.  Now for the White knights that defend DE no matter what:  That's cute.  You'll grow out of that once you hit the wall of years of content drought and recognize the game is built on promises and dreams, rather than actual content releases, BY STEVE'S OWN WORDS, which is something most of us knew, but it sure was nice to have his confirmation.  The game, like all other scummy publisher games, is built on hype, not content.

If DE doesn't correct course, they will eventually end up just like EA, Activision, Bethesda and all the other publishers that have rightfully earned the ire of those that once supported them.

WAKE UP DE.  

 

We all know DE is doomed.