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Dog Days Exploit Hot Fix Red Text, Don't talk down at your supporters DE


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5 minutes ago, sungod1 said:

When the New War comes out everyone crying for nerfs is going to be crying because it is too hard.  I for one hope the Tau starts at level 140.

I don't. Levels are irrelevant to challenge.

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10 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

They do but every time they make something harder or more challenging in the game, some people come to the forums harassing them for making something too hard.

Take Arbitrations and Nightwave for example.

???

Most if not all threads I read regarding them boils down to them being a chore than a proper difficult content.

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OP, just learn from me, uninstall and quit. Former MR 26 who had quite a stock of plat and Rivens (gave it to friends).

I am only replying because support has not deleted my account even though it has been a week. I mean like, come on man, how hard is it to delete a player's account? Hurry up!

I'm not coming back anyway!

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19 minutes ago, sungod1 said:

When the New War comes out everyone crying for nerfs is going to be crying because it is too hard.  I for one hope the Tau starts at level 140.

Wonderful, could you also provide me with tonight's lottery numbers, oh future seeing one.

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4 hours ago, RX-3DR said:

Lets be real here. Even if they dropped the costs, people would still do the exact same thing, but instead of leeching for 2 hours, they're leeching for 1 hour. If you gave Pearls from kills, people would still leech too unless you make it individual. If you make it individual, they're better off making it solo only.

Ultimately, the problem that people have with the rewards can be summarized with three sentences. I want all the rewards. I want all of them now. I only want to play the game in the specific way I want to.

This is true, i also believe that OP is only using Redtext as an excuse to rant. Part of the title of this thread is "DONT TALK DOWN AT YOUR SUPPORTERS". Right, im a supporter, and i say OP is NOT speaking on my behalf. 

You know why? Bcos, as i quote: the problem that people have with the rewards can be summarized with three sentences. I want all the rewards. I want all of them now. I only want to play the game in the specific way I want to.

I AM NOT 1 OF THOSE PEOPLE. 

Edited by (PS4)ATreidezz
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31 minutes ago, (PS4)ATreidezz said:

This is true, i also believe that OP is only using Redtext as an excuse to rant. Part of the title of this thread is "DONT TALK DOWN AT YOUR SUPPORTERS". Right, im a supporter, and i say OP is NOT speaking on my behalf. 

You know why? Bcos, as i quote: the problem that people have with the rewards can be summarized with three sentences. I want all the rewards. I want all of them now. I only want to play the game in the specific way I want to.

I AM NOT 1 OF THOSE PEOPLE. 

No that's not true. OP is saying that content should feel rewarding. There is a balance between time investment, difficulty and reward, and Dog Days balance is completely off, making it feel so grindy to the point where people are using exploits.

Imagine having to stay on Hydron for 10 waves with a booster just to level up one weapon. Would you still say the same?

Edit: Whoops, I meant 10 waves as in 10 reward cycles.

Edited by Jarl_Baalin
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Quote

Like everything else, DE will band aid the situation rather than addressing the core issue, which is to either lower the cost, or incentivise the intended gameplay loop to a point where it feels rewarding, which is what many people did... by suggesting kills grant pearls, which is entirely reasonable.

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1118374-wukong-deluxe-hotfix-2554/?do=findComment&comment=10946386

Quote

Performance now can yield better results for the final Dog Days mission! Mission 4 now yields 1 Nakak Pearl per kill in addition to the 50 given at end of mission. More kills, more Pearls!

Right, they don't care about feedback at all. <sarcasm>

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Just now, Jarl_Baalin said:

No that's not true. OP is saying that content should feel rewarding. There is a balance between time investment, difficulty and reward, and Dog Days balance is completely off, making it feel so grindy to the point where people are using exploits.

Imagine having to stay on Hydron for 10 waves with a booster just to level up one weapon. Would you still say the same?

Who determines the value of this balance between time investment, difficulty and reward? We can all disagree on how much time it should take to get the Captura scene but within any logical reasoning, it's hard to argue that spending 2 hours over an entire week is unreasonable. It's not difficult either. The rewards are mostly cosmetic, collectible, or can be obtained else where. There's no strict functional upgrade and they're entirely optional.

You do understand that you are arguing that it is perfectly fine to cheat if you feel that something isn't worth your time, right? I'm sorry but no, just be honest, you want to exploit it because you want the rewards but you don't want to do it the way DE designed it, don't beat around the bush and push the blame around. If you don't like how long it takes, then just say your piece and be honest about it, "I don't like it because 20 rounds of X game mode is too slow and long for a mostly negligible reward pool". Cheating out a bad system can only make the situation worse by obfuscating the actual community interaction. If 90% of the active participating players got the Captura scene, the statistics will show them that the prize pool was easily achieved and the threads complaining about it are a minority. 

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17 minutes ago, RX-3DR said:

Who determines the value of this balance between time investment, difficulty and reward?

https://www.quora.com/How-do-you-balance-a-game-difficulty-and-reward

18 minutes ago, RX-3DR said:

 I'm sorry but no, just be honest, you want to exploit it because you want the rewards but you don't want to do it the way DE designed it,

Bingo!

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13 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Endgame content cannot exist until our power is reigned in such that there is actually a level that can be defined as "endgame", and frankly the gameplay actually needs to resemble that of a "game" instead of invisible, unkillable frames dealing 5 billion damage to enemies with 10 thousand health. And unfortunately any attempts to suggest such methods for reigning in our power so that an "endgame" can be more than a pipe dream is met with vitriol and ridicule. We can't have both scaling frames (to this degree) and endgame content at the same time.

Also, General Discussion?

I think this is the misconception that will always hold warframe back. DE should ignore the calls for "hard" content. Instead, they should make engaging content.

The problem with nightwave is that it shines a spotlight on how horrible the game content really is.

Three captures? Okay. I can go to the easiest capture mission or the hardest. Regardless of which I choose gameplay is the same-bullet jump past all enemies, capture, bullet jump to extraction. Awesome, 1:23 seconds of absolutely nothing.

Now youre saying we cant have endgame at our current levels. Rubbish. Take a destiny raid and convert it to wareframe. I dont remember the name of the raid, but at the start players were in complete darkness and had to run from lantern to lantern killing hordes of enemies along the way. Warframe could do that. 

Think of the "jumping" puzzles in each destiny raid. Wouldn't it be cool if a section of content called on us to use our operators to dash through a jumping puzzle? I think it would. 

Warframe is what it is. There is no going back at this point. It doesnt matter how fast we kill the enemies. It matters how that task is presented to us. 

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24 minutes ago, Jarl_Baalin said:

No that's not true. OP is saying that content should feel rewarding. There is a balance between time investment, difficulty and reward, and Dog Days balance is completely off, making it feel so grindy to the point where people are using exploits.

Imagine having to stay on Hydron for 10 waves with a booster just to level up one weapon. Would you still say the same?

Didnt dog days event have 4 different nodes and rewards? Node 1 = 10 pearls all the way to node 4 = 50, is this not rewarding more than node 1?

If the problem is the cost, didn't DE made this event last for 10 days, So that we have enough time to grind? 

Besides, it has been said by OP, and i quote: "some silly cosmetic items that have literally no bearing on gameplay and a few trash mods that maybe five people will find useful".

Doesnt it means that the reward is just an optional thing? Pardon, let me correct this, "Additional rewards", bcos the real rewards are already embedded when we do the mission for the 1st time. 

This event is grindy only for people who has the mentality of completionist, must-have-it-all kind of players. Be grateful that DE didn't pull that RNG based rewards like previous events and tac alerts. 

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vor 1 Minute schrieb (PS4)ATreidezz:

This event is grindy only for people who has the mentality of completionist, must-have-it-all kind of players. Be grateful that DE didn't pull that RNG based rewards like previous events and tac alerts. 

Thats exactly the problem. It's shallow content to repeat over and over again for people with fear of missing out.

So why not design it in a way thats engaging? Or does this decrease the show-off value for the cosmetics earned, because obtaining them was such a pain and therefore, they are special?

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3 minutes ago, (PS4)tissot555 said:

Now youre saying we cant have endgame at our current levels. Rubbish. Take a destiny raid and convert it to wareframe.

It's genius, why has it not been done yet?

3 minutes ago, (PS4)tissot555 said:

at the start players were in complete darkness and had to run from lantern to lantern killing hordes of enemies along the way. Warframe could do that. 

It could, but to what end? Since when do we actually need to be able to see enemies to kill or CC them? And then you're faced with the same problem mentioned earlier, how much damage are these enemies going to deal? Damage that's appropriate for frames that can take a few hits and thus insta-kills squishier frames, or damage that's appropriate for squishier frames to allow for "fairness" but means that tanks are immortal? 

Are they able to shoot at you from outside of the lit area and thus you have the potential for insta-killing enemies that you can't see, or do they have to get close enough to be visible before damaging you, at which point see point a about them already being dead or CC'd.

What's to stop people from just being permanently invisible all the time and just following the light and ignoring enemies altogether?

You could suggest that the light nullifies abilities, but then you shall be met with "why bother playing Warframe if you want the mission to be a generic shooter"?

I'm sorry, but dismissing my claim that we cannot have an endgame by proposing "take a destiny raid and port it to Warframe" as the grand solution is... I honestly can't really think of any words right now. There are just so many flaws with the idea.

11 minutes ago, (PS4)tissot555 said:

Wouldn't it be cool if a section of content called on us to use our operators to dash through a jumping puzzle?

No? Sorry but I see no coolness in that.

How exactly does one dash through a jumping puzzle anyway? Surely that defeats the entire point of a jumping puzzle if you dash through it?

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7 minutes ago, Imbarator said:

Thats exactly the problem. It's shallow content to repeat over and over again for people with fear of missing out.

So why not design it in a way thats engaging? Or does this decrease the show-off value for the cosmetics earned, because obtaining them was such a pain and therefore, they are special?

then how would you make it more engaging?

I for one see DD as a stupid little fun event, that offers nothing important and is meant to distract us from the waiting for the next big update.

If you start with the "I must have it all"-mindset you are bound to not have any fun at all

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vor 3 Minuten schrieb Helch0rn:

then how would you make it more engaging?

I for one see DD as a stupid little fun event, that offers nothing important and is meant to distract us from the waiting for the next big update.

If you start with the "I must have it all"-mindset you are bound to not have any fun at all

First of all, I do not consider this an event. It's a minigame. A minigame that would be contained withing a REAL event in other games, wich would have other minigames and other ways to earn the event specific currency. Also, as long as you play that mode a few time, that when you call it fun. But setting up rewards that would have you to grind this mode over and over again, thats when the fund ends. I'd go as far and say that this "event" would be better without Nakaks rewards. That way, everyone can decide themselves how long it's "fun" to them.

 

"If you start with the "I must have it all"-mindset you are bound to not have any fun at all"

DE willingly reinforced that mindset by having that modes being tied to rewards.

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10 minutes ago, Imbarator said:

Thats exactly the problem. It's shallow content to repeat over and over again for people with fear of missing out.

So why not design it in a way thats engaging? Or does this decrease the show-off value for the cosmetics earned, because obtaining them was such a pain and therefore, they are special?

Special? OP clearly said that its "some silly cosmetic items that have literally no bearing on gameplay" which is btw, a long way of saying "its irrelevant". 

So why would people fear out of missing "something irrelevant"? 

Then again, i dont understand what you mean by engaging design, is cutting the grind engaging? Is cutting the cost engaging? If people have it all then run back to forum to make another "content drought" thread, is that count as engaging? 

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15 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

It's genius, why has it not been done yet?

It could, but to what end? Since when do we actually need to be able to see enemies to kill or CC them? And then you're faced with the same problem mentioned earlier, how much damage are these enemies going to deal? Damage that's appropriate for frames that can take a few hits and thus insta-kills squishier frames, or damage that's appropriate for squishier frames to allow for "fairness" but means that tanks are immortal? 

Are they able to shoot at you from outside of the lit area and thus you have the potential for insta-killing enemies that you can't see, or do they have to get close enough to be visible before damaging you, at which point see point a about them already being dead or CC'd.

What's to stop people from just being permanently invisible all the time and just following the light and ignoring enemies altogether?

You could suggest that the light nullifies abilities, but then you shall be met with "why bother playing Warframe if you want the mission to be a generic shooter"?

I'm sorry, but dismissing my claim that we cannot have an endgame by proposing "take a destiny raid and port it to Warframe" as the grand solution is... I honestly can't really think of any words right now. There are just so many flaws with the idea.

No? Sorry but I see no coolness in that.

How exactly does one dash through a jumping puzzle anyway? Surely that defeats the entire point of a jumping puzzle if you dash through it?

You're thinking within the restraints of my example. You have to realise your argument is that because warframes can do this, that means we cant have endgame. When the thought should be, because warframes can do this, we need this in our endgame. 

The challenge is to answer all of the questions you just asked me. The devs should challenge themselves to make new, engaging content around the warframes and weapons they've already created. 

Also can you really not see past the word jumping lol? If I called it a dashing puzzle would you be on board. But forget the dashing puzzle. What if during a raid players came to a void chasm that only operators could go into. What if there was a relic that one operator had to hold and it connected the operator to the warframe in a way that let the operator have the warframes health, armor and weapons. And just for that breif but awesome section of the raid, operators fought through the hordes 

Just think outside the box man. Maybe I'm just a visionary.

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vor 13 Minuten schrieb (PS4)ATreidezz:

Special? OP clearly said that its "some silly cosmetic items that have literally no bearing on gameplay" which is btw, a long way of saying "its irrelevant". 

So why would people fear out of missing "something irrelevant"? 

Then again, i dont understand what you mean by engaging design, is cutting the grind engaging? Is cutting the cost engaging? If people have it all then run back to forum to make another "content drought" thread, is that count as engaging? 

I was not referring to OP, but to the situation in general in my own words.

And it's a simple fact: Content exists, people want to unlock it. If's it's time limited, they rush it. If there is a grindwall, they grind, no matter how "useless" the rewards are. But cosmetics matter to alot of people, a big part of monetization in the industry as a whole is build on that.

 

Cutting the grind might not be "engaging", but it's less "not engaging", and in some way "more engaging" when looked at it like that. Also, how about more weapons for the mode? Waterbomb secondaries, pool noodle melee? Making this not just a shooting a stupid AI while walking backwards, how about two forts and playing some form of capture the flag? How about PvP? How about unlocking stuff by challenges, instead of grind for currency?

 

Edit: Oh, and having Kela as a boss obviously. Huuuuuuge missed opportunity.

Edited by Imbarator
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3 minutes ago, (PS4)tissot555 said:

You're thinking within the restraints of my example. You have to realise your argument is that because warframes can do this, that means we cant have endgame. When the thought should be, because warframes can do this, we need this in our endgame. 

None of this makes any sense.

Of course I thought within the restraints of your example, what else am I supposed to think? You provided an example, I responded to that example.

Of course my argument is that because we're capable of this we can't have endgame. Where does "should" even come into this? We should have more content designed to challenge us but doesn't actually because the root problem is never addressed? What?

5 minutes ago, (PS4)tissot555 said:

The challenge is to answer all of the questions you just asked me.

It should be an easy challenge for you, given you claimed that my argument in this regard is rubbish.

6 minutes ago, (PS4)tissot555 said:

Also can you really not see past the word jumping lol? If I called it a dashing puzzle would you be on board.

No.

9 minutes ago, (PS4)tissot555 said:

What if there was a relic that one operator had to hold and it connected the operator to the warframe in a way that let the operator have the warframes health, armor and weapons. And just for that breif but awesome section of the raid, operators fought through the hordes 

Cool, a single player gets the potential to be a super powerful Operator that... follows behind the frames as they kill everything? Creating new content outside the core gameplay experience doesn't change the fact that the core gameplay experience, the very essence of Warframe, is completely borked and doesn't leave much room for an endgame. What happens when the novelty of this wears off?

11 minutes ago, (PS4)tissot555 said:

Maybe I'm just a visionary.

That's certainly one word for it.

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And it's all of a sudden like you forgot everything good that DE has done. If anything, for me the straw that broke the camel's back was when parkour 2.0 came in. For me, that's when Warframe went into its power-creep downward spiral. That is more insulting to players than some petty red text.

But I also acknowledge everything good DE has done since then. If I and others (and you) haven't supported the game for as long as we did, we wouldn't have the roster of frames we have now. Railjack would be a pipe dream and Warframe would still be a random tile shooter. DE will trip and stumble but for me, they are minor annoyances compared to what they botched up years ago. And unlike your complaint which may or may not be fixed, what my complaint is hasn't been fixed or addressed since the inception of parkour 2.0. So I do think I have more right to be peeved off at DE than you are.

This Dog Days thing I could care less about. It's Railjack that needs to swim. However, I also agree with some of the player complaints and feedback on Dog Days and DE has actually listened to some of it which I think some small, vocal group of people on the forum conveniently forgot. The pearl cost is barely anything, and it's even more easy to obtain now that you can get pearls per kill. For me in solo, that nearly halves the time it takes for me to obtain items from the Beach shop.

In saying all of this, I may be aggressive to your post but it's still good to voice your thoughts and opinion and I do hope DE at least listens to your, and others grievances. But let's not be hyperbolic about it.

Edited by Goodwill
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I think maybe there's more than one RedText, specifically more than one person at DE with access to RedText, and one is probably a little less jovial than the other from time to time. I think it was either an attempt to be funny that just didn't hit home, or one of the staff got out the wrong side of bed this morning. either way, we shouldn't take it personally.

DE has a FAR better track record of treating us well than many other Devs, even with the "26 million losers" blunder. they interact with the community more than any other developer I've seen, something which they wouldn't do if they actively disliked us.

it's not worth making salt for an event that will be gone at the end of this week anyway.

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