Okay, seriously DE, I need an explanation to the new player experience

[Kurokazin]

I've had some misgivings with you guys in the past(I'm a supporter after all), but let's put that aside for a moment.

For the first time, I've managed to introduce Warframe to a person who had never actually played it.  The result of which has been an absolutely horrible experience for him and me.  He's pulled in every direction, he can't afford anything decent, and he can't rank up because for whatever asinine reason there's a time-gate between each successful mastery test.

I can't even help him out besides blowing through planet systems for him and collecting blueprints of frames/weapons he's interested in using(Which I can't give him for another 12 bloody hours due to him not being mastery 2 yet and the aforementioned time-gate).  I'm sitting on a mountain of duplicate mods I don't need that he really could use and I can't so much as help him with his damn quests because so far 2/3rds of them are solo-only.  Even the open world quests are solo(solaris).

Are you guys just allergic to too many players?  Is stemming the tide of chinese gold farmers so important to you that you'll lose people that are actually passionate about your game?  I don't get it.  What the hell is the point of a coop multiplayer game if I can't even help a friend out until a week+ goes by and they're in the mid-game?

He's annoyed, I'm annoyed that he's annoyed, and there's absolutely no excuse for this.  There's no reason to hamper players by locking trading behind time-gated mastery levels.  There's no reason to punish new players with massive grind walls before they feel like they can contribute anything to a group of vets.  There's no reason that he has to spend 12+ hours in a glorified tutorial before he can play with his buddies where even then, there's sprinklings of "solo only" quests.  He wants to play Ash, it "resonates" with him.  I'd give him my ash prime if I could even though it's vaulted(Can't trade completed Warframes because...reasons), but I can't even give him the blueprints of the original Ash frame until 4 days after I introduced him to the game.  He's still stuck playing Volt.

I saw that interview, btw - about the kubrow incubation lottery way back when and how you're such honest folks that care so much about your players that ya pressed the abort button.  I see none of that sentiment, here.  Just developers utilizing a more under-handed method of squeezing money and time out of their consumers.  Is this really the game and developer I spent triple-digits supporting?  Instead of 1$ dot sights, you're just going to take a virtual baseball bat to someone's time constraints then offer up a super great deal?  He got a 75% discount on plat.  I told him to ignore it because if he's not having fun even after 10+ hours of play, the developers don't deserve his support.

I want an answer.  There's been roadblock after roadblock preventing us from actually being able to enjoy the game as little toddler-Tenno and super 1337 no-scope Tenno, and each time we hit one of said roadblocks, I can't give him a good response besides "Why?".  Is this a game for gamers, by gamers, or is it a love letter to Warframe fanboys with 1k+ hours on steam?  I ask this because like any game, your die-hard fanbase will eventually die and the only longevity you can hope for is from new blood, who's experience is absolutely horrible from what I've seen and heard.

If this comes off as aggressive: I apologize but I've reached my limit of what I consider acceptable levels.  I've never, in 15+ years of gaming, ever introduced someone to a multiplayer game with such an awful initial experience.  I've known the guy most of my life and he's docile like a damn koala.  If even someone like him can get frustrated at Warframe's entry-level gameplay, there's something VERY wrong.

[kikasnoob]

Htf is your mate going to learn how to play if you are blowing through the content for him? No wonder he is pissed off!

Aaaahhhhhh,,,,,,, fcuk you got me!! I should have realised sooner, 

good one mate well done 👍

[sleepychewbacca]

20 minutes ago, Kurokazin said:

walloftextprime

It simply sounds like this isn't the kind of game meant for your friend. The point of a looter-shooter is that you grind for the loot. In a F2P game, Warframe is refreshing because it's "pay-to-not-wait".

I would strongly recommend playing APB Reloaded, Neverwinter, heck, Maple Story, or any Chinese MMO. Then come back to Warframe and see. 

Warframe isn't perfect, but it's not doom and gloom. 

21 minutes ago, Kurokazin said:

I ask this because like any game, your die-hard fanbase will eventually die and the only longevity you can hope for is from new blood, who's experience is absolutely horrible from what I've seen and heard.

Yeah.... this has been said ever since Warframe started. If it dies it dies, it's just a video game. Like all things, one day Warframe too will end. When it ends has been cried by doomsayers forever. 

Feel free to leave. 

25 minutes ago, Kurokazin said:

I want an answer.  There's been roadblock after roadblock preventing us from actually being able to enjoy the game as little toddler-Tenno and super 1337 no-scope Tenno, and each time we hit one of said roadblocks, I can't give him a good response besides "What the #*!%?".  Is this a game for gamers, by gamers, or is it a love letter to Warframe fanboys with 1k+ hours on steam? 

The wait times are fairly reasonable. Your problem, and for friend's as well, is that you want to blitz through content faster then you're meant to. 

[KazuXSora]

Nah. I think it's jusy you trying to rush things. I too just start playing some months ago cuz of a friend recommended this to me.

 

25 minutes ago, Kurokazin said:

there's a time-gate between each successful mastery test.

I can't even help him out besides blowing throu

 

There should be. Because people who had friend like will be able to advance very quickly with no experience (ive seen mr 14 dont know that Eidolon shield can be damage with normal weapon)

27 minutes ago, Kurokazin said:

collecting blueprints of frames/weapons he's interested

Why do you even need many frame when just starting?

 

28 minutes ago, Kurokazin said:

mountain of duplicate mods I don't need that he really could use

Dude, what do you want to give him, serrations? point strike?(lol). He clearly didn't play enough

 

30 minutes ago, Kurokazin said:

Even the open world quests are solo(solaris).

Not gonna lie, I've just recently finished this quest ,at mr 9. I don't think this was intended to newbie even tho its on Venus.

 

31 minutes ago, Kurokazin said:

wants to play Ash, it "resonates" with him.

Bruh your friend here has chuuni. 

 

32 minutes ago, Kurokazin said:

He's still stuck playing Volt.

I main volt prime. He just don't know the power of the almighty Volt.

34 minutes ago, Kurokazin said:

There's been roadblock after roadblock preventing us from actually being able to enjoy the game as little toddler-Tenno 

Well, at this point, the little toddler tenno just want to be a grown up quickly, like all other kids. 

Just relaxed and play it. Why do you want everything in the entire game at mr 2??

29 minutes ago, Kurokazin said:

 

 

 

[Drasiel]

I'm going to offer some rebuttals but you seem quite angry so I'll preface it with: The new player experience needs to be redone and according to the Devs it is being redone. What this will mean or when it will happen is still unclear but It is known the NPE is kinda bad.

I'm not sure how long you've been playing but you should not take new players to the open worlds. It's a pit trap for newbies right now, players at venus and earth level can only really do the first bounty and shouldn't go more than halfway into the map at all because enemy level scales with distance from the gate. The quests are a struggle for newbies too and it's better holding off on them. I think a mastery lock of 4 or 5 should be enough for people to get familiar with the game and gear up enough to do most of it.

You are bang on about not knowing where to go once Vor's prize is over.

Gold farmers are a serious problem in most games that have an auction house or trading system to the point of crippling in game markets and creating a money hemorrhage for the developers. A mastery lock of 2 is extremely easy for someone actively playing the game to reach two days without trading isn't going to cripple your friends enjoyment of the game unless it was already a type of game they wouldn't like in the first place.

You don't need better weapons than the ones you get at mastery 2 to get you to Saturn. Here's a list of them

Spoiler

Primary

• Braton (MK1)
• Burston
• Hind
• Latron
• MK1-Paris
• Snipetron
• MK1-Strun
• Karak
• Strun
• Boar
• Boltor
• Mutalist Quanta
• Vectis

Secondary

• Bronco
• MK1-Furis
• Kraken
• MK1-Kunai
• Lato
• Seer
• All Kitguns
• Akbronco
• Ballistica
• Furis
• Gammacor
• Hikou
• Kunai
• Sonicor
• Stug

Melee

• Amphis
• Ankyros (Prime)
• Bo (MK1)
• Cadus
• Cronus
• Dark Dagger
• Dark Sword
• Dex Dakra
• Dual Ether
• Dual Heat Swords
• Dual Skana
• Ether Daggers
• Ether Sword
• Fang (Prime)
• Furax (MK1)
• Heat Dagger
• Heat Sword
• Jaw Sword
• Karyst
• Kestrel
• Kogake
• Lecta
• Mire
• Nami Skyla
• Nami Solo
• Nikana Prime
• Ninkondi
• Obex (Prisma)
• Pangolin Sword
• Plasma Sword
• Shaku
• Sheev
• Sigma & Octantis
• Silva & Aegis
• Skana ( Prisma)
• All Zaws
• Dual Kamas
• Glaive
• Kama
• Machete (Wraith)
• Magistar
• Atterax
• Boltace
• Dual Zoren
• Fragor
• Gram
• Hate
• Orthos (Prime)
• Reaper Prime
• Scindo
• Serro
• SydonTekko

While more mods are always good for a new player they should only really need to have the basic damage mods and survival mods which are fairly easy to get just by completing missions and junctions. With just vitality redirection/steel fibre, serration and hornet strike you will only start to really struggle at saturn.

Those 12 hours with the glorified tutorial actually get you halfway set up to play the game at the starting level. While you are both busy trying to push past it as quickly as possibly you are robbing your friend of learning the basics.

You used to be able to manually join people's play through of Vor's prize. Unfortunately I don't have a newbie handy to test if that still works.

Ash's acquisition is awful since the removal of raids and raids never helped newbies anyway. you need a grineer map with an enemy of 20 or higher with alarms blaring to even get manics to spawn (outside of defection. Don't take a new player to defection) and I hate to tell you but you can't trade regular ash parts.

The new player experience isn't great in warframe and it leaves a lot of bodies on the trail behind it. You and your friends issues seem to stem 40% from poor new player information and about 60% from fighting a war with the intended pacing of the early game. Don't kill everything for your friend let them play a bit more for themselves and focus on clearing nodes and junctions with them this will unlock quests and weapon blueprints and other stuff they need.

[(PSN)thowed]

In no other game can a new player "contribute" to a group of vets without grinding.  Don't know where that came from.  You're basically mad you can't just power level and gear your friend right when he started.  This is actually a good thing.

[(PSN)NewcastleDisease]

6 hours ago, Kurokazin said:

-Snip-

sorry to say that but i think that a problem caused by you and your friend.

i have introduced someone to this game step by step, sitting beside her and explained everything. she was able to go to mastery 16 now without problems, and still is faszinating about the world, the lore and everything. yeah sometime warframe suk?s, but most time it's an awesome game. I never told her about different warframe, weapons or stuff, just let her know that she can farm every frame and gear and should try any one out. so she never felt like "i need THIS frame!". 

this one sound a lot like wrong expactations.

the game isn't build to rush through content and go from mastery 0 to 27 in 24 hours. it's a loot game, you have to farm a lot. that the core of warframe. if you don't like that you will never like warframe in the end... and that need time. 

so maybe the problem in this case is not the game itself.

 

you're right, not everything is good in warframe, but most of it is. 

 

i've learned everything for my own, read articles on the wiki, play the quests, and so on... most of the starmap i used Excal, never had problem with it. then i switched to Nezha and Saryn, which i play till now most time. already had build and test many other frames. but this is progress.. you need a solid base, and that needs time. thats why you can't shortcut the game. and thats good as it is.

[trst]

It sounds like the issue might actually be you trying to rush them through content as fast as possible which in my personal experience very rarely results in anything other than them burning out instantly and never touching the game again.

If that isn't their problem and they're actually bothered by even the most basic of time-gates we have then they either need to have a lot of disposable income or to just stop playing now. If they don't have the patience for this and can't/won't pay their way through them then they're not going to have a pleasant time.

 

The "new player experience" does have issues but they're almost all rooted in a lack of proper information, not the time-gates. Also easing the time-gates for new players only to then shove all the other ones into their face is the same scummy practices employed by mobile games to try and force an addiction on its players. If any are to get eased then they all need to which will almost certainly never happen.

[Kurokazin]

51 minutes ago, kikasnoob said:

Htf is your mate going to learn how to play if you are blowing through the content for him? No wonder he is pissed off!

Aaaahhhhhh,,,,,,, fcuk you got me!! I should have realised sooner, 

good one mate well done 👍

I guess I'll only address whatever you said that actually makes sense which is: "How is he supposed to learn how to play?"

A). I couldn't blow through content for him even if I wanted to.
B). The same way a chef learns how to cook, or a football player learns how to aggressively hug: By having someone more knowledgeable than them pointing out the negatives/positives.  We finally managed to get him his clan key today so I could show him how to move faster.  He went from being 4 minutes behind us to extraction to 15 seconds in 10 minutes of example+execution.
C). He's pissed because there's nothing we can do to help ease climbing mount everest.  He downloaded the game to play with us.  Not get carried by us, not to die horribly when we bring him into a lvl 40+ mission.  He wants what we want:  to play with friends.  He's got 21 hours on record(Just checked) and still can't play the game at the level we're playing at as 15+ mastery accounts.

I understand the impulse to immediately go on the defensive with very poorly thought-out responses, but reel it in, my dude.  Personally I'd be happier being able to scale my frame down without having to buy more slots and play at his level than expect him to go up like the world's biggest firework to grind out at my level.

@sleepychewbaccaI think you may have misunderstood my meaning.  My concern isn't that I'll quit the game, but that someone who would otherwise enjoy the game will.  All for the silly expectation that they grind mindlessly or get carried for nearly the amount of time it takes to complete a full-blown RPG in actual time spent in-game and he's still not even remotely close to playing with his friends.  He's sitting there swinging his dual-dark sword on 2 mobs in the time it takes me to delete everything off the screen with 1 key press.  You tell me, why are there only 3 frames to pick from?  Why aren't every non-prime, non-quest frame available from the get-go?  Not like 2/3rd of the basic frames are going to make or break anything in terms of balance, anyway.  I'm not trying to paint a picture of "Doom and Gloom", but address what I'd consider a flaw.  I'm not stamping my feet, not making demands, I just want to know the logic behind some of the design choices so at least I have a better answer to a question than another question like "...Wait, why the **** is it like that?"

@KazuXSoraThis would make sense if I actually needed help.  Dude, if I could just play the game with him, I would.  I can't even fire my gun without trivializing the content for him.  I can't take him into anything I'd run because he'll just spend the entire time on the floor.  I can't solve the former because that'd just be handicapping myself and he knows it.  I can't solve the latter by giving him a maxed out vitality mod because of stupid-as-hell time-gating.  You're speaking from a place of experience.  It's probably been over a year since you were like "Oh ****!  What the hell is going on!?".

It takes an absurd amount of time just to get your sea-legs, let alone actually progress then contribute.  I don't expect the guy to be treating the ground like it's hot lava and neither should you.  If the learning curve takes over 15 hours of play, it needs to be smoothed or at least more accommodating.  Why does someone need to wait 12 hours or spend money to access a dojo?  Why does there need to be a 30ish hour grace period before I can hook a brutha up with basic necessities?

Y'all aren't even addressing the exigence of my point, you're just asserting your own opinions without any basis for them.  What's an acceptable amount of time to learn a game(not warframe, just the generic game) to you?  How long should a person have to wait to properly enjoy a game with his buddies as a new player?  How fast is "too fast" in terms of the content in this game?  I've got over 1300 hours, I still don't have everything unlocked/upgraded/etc.

@DrasielEh, I'm not angry, just irritated.  Introducing a friend to a new game where he can't play the frame he wants to play(Ash, teleporting around, being a melee "badass" because I don't have the heart to tell him there are better melee frames than Ash), can't use the types of weapons he wants to use or in other words: can't play the way he wants to play, and constantly getting hamstrung by the 20+ types of resources he has to figure out as he's cradting.  After the exhausting array of what I'd almost call "stupid logic" from the other posters, you're a breath of fresh air.

Never took him to open world, it's just something he was offered and interested in way before he could actually tackle it himself.  It sets a bad precedent when he needs help, I want to help, but I can't because of XYZ in a co-op game.  I've been pretty hands-off with the guy besides teaching him some basic movement techniques, helping him understand the different mission types, and once he gets too frustrated: come into the mission to see what's killing him and how to avoid it without sending him off to the warframe wiki.

Perhaps I did a poor job of explaining my position:  I don't care how slow or fast he is.  I care that we can't really play together because what he's doing is too easy for me and what I'm doing is too hard for him.  Put that way, in retrospect, I'm starting to consider the possibility that there's too much of a gap between the end-game and entry levels.

@(PS4)thowedThis comment was stupid.  Sorry man but I'm already responding to 5 other people, I can't be ****ed to make this post any longer than it already is.  Reflect on and think very hard about this statement: "In no other game can a new player contribute to a group of vets without grinding"

@(PS4)NewcastleDiseaseYou only addressed half my point in a vacuum.  I wouldn't have even brought up me trying to help him if it weren't for massive flaws in the new player experience.  I'm lazy as hell, dude.  I don't want to babysit someone through the game just so they'll stick with it.  I also don't subscribe to the idea that because I slogged through it way back when, someone else should too.

@trstDude...everything is time-gated.  Mastery levels are time-gated.  Every crafting recipe is time-gated even the random bull**** ones that for some reason take 1 minute to make.  Reputation is time-gated.  Alerts, available prime frames/weapons, Baro mods, you name it and there's a big ol' gate with "TIME" chiseled into it.  Are you really going to try to convince me that this is "the most basic of time-gating"?  That's really the hill you're going to die on? 😛

I don't disagree that it's largely information rather than time-gating that's the issue, but I think you're missing a small factor which is: options.  There's 40ish frames, less than half are quest-related and new players can only pick from 3.  There's hundreds of weapons with no clear distinction between what's good(Going back to your original point of poor newbie information) but they only get access 7 terrible(MK1) weapons at the start.

I could go on, but it's getting very late.  tl;dr:  While I've reconsidered some things, I still don't feel like I'm necessarily off-base with my criticism.  I look forward to more thought-provoking responses from you kind folks.

[(XBOX)Demon Intellect]

1 hour ago, Kurokazin said:

I've had some misgivings with you guys in the past(I'm a supporter after all), but let's put that aside for a moment.

For the first time, I've managed to introduce Warframe to a person who had never actually played it.  The result of which has been an absolutely horrible experience for him and me.  He's pulled in every direction, he can't afford anything decent, and he can't rank up because for whatever asinine reason there's a time-gate between each successful mastery test.

I can't even help him out besides blowing through planet systems for him and collecting blueprints of frames/weapons he's interested in using(Which I can't give him for another 12 bloody hours due to him not being mastery 2 yet and the aforementioned time-gate).  I'm sitting on a mountain of duplicate mods I don't need that he really could use and I can't so much as help him with his damn quests because so far 2/3rds of them are solo-only.  Even the open world quests are solo(solaris).

Are you guys just allergic to too many players?  Is stemming the tide of chinese gold farmers so important to you that you'll lose people that are actually passionate about your game?  I don't get it.  What the hell is the point of a coop multiplayer game if I can't even help a friend out until a week+ goes by and they're in the mid-game?

He's pissed, I'm pissed that he's pissed, and there's absolutely no excuse for this.  There's no reason to hamper players by locking trading behind time-gated mastery levels.  There's no reason to punish new players with massive grind walls before they feel like they can contribute anything to a group of vets.  There's no reason that he has to spend 12+ hours in a glorified tutorial before he can play with his buddies where even then, there's sprinklings of "solo only" quests.  He wants to play Ash, it "resonates" with him.  I'd give him my ash prime if I could even though it's vaulted(Can't trade completed Warframes because...reasons), but I can't even give him the blueprints of the original Ash frame until 4 days after I introduced him to the game.  He's still stuck playing Volt.

I saw that interview, btw - about the kubrow incubation lottery way back when and how you're such honest folks that care so much about your players that ya pressed the abort button.  I see none of that sentiment, here.  Just developers utilizing a more under-handed method of squeezing money and time out of their consumers.  Is this really the game and developer I spent triple-digits supporting?  Instead of 1$ dot sights, you're just going to take a virtual baseball bat to someone's time constraints then offer up a super great deal?  He got a 75% discount on plat.  I told him to ignore it because if he's not having fun even after 10+ hours of play, the developers don't deserve his support.

I want an answer.  There's been roadblock after roadblock preventing us from actually being able to enjoy the game as little toddler-Tenno and super 1337 no-scope Tenno, and each time we hit one of said roadblocks, I can't give him a good response besides "What the #*!%?".  Is this a game for gamers, by gamers, or is it a love letter to Warframe fanboys with 1k+ hours on steam?  I ask this because like any game, your die-hard fanbase will eventually die and the only longevity you can hope for is from new blood, who's experience is absolutely horrible from what I've seen and heard.

If this comes off as aggressive: I apologize but I've reached my limit of what I consider acceptable levels of bull****.  I've never, in 15+ years of gaming, ever introduced someone to a multiplayer game with such an awful initial experience.  I've known the guy most of my life and he's docile like a damn koala.  If even someone like him can get frustrated at Warframe's entry-level gameplay, there's something VERY wrong.

Its funny a guy with an excal prime glyph (which I'm assuming can only be gotten through founders pack) is whining about new player experience. It's way better now than it was 5+ years ago.

[sleepychewbacca]

Just now, Kurokazin said:

 

@sleepychewbaccaI think you may have misunderstood my meaning.  My concern isn't that I'll quit the game, but that someone who would otherwise enjoy the game will.  All for the silly expectation that they grind mindlessly or get carried for nearly the amount of time it takes to complete a full-blown RPG in actual time spent in-game and he's still not even remotely close to playing with his friends.  He's sitting there swinging his dual-dark sword on 2 mobs in the time it takes me to delete everything off the screen with 1 key press.  You tell me, why are there only 3 frames to pick from?  Why aren't every non-prime, non-quest frame available from the get-go?  Not like 2/3rd of the basic frames are going to make or break anything in terms of balance, anyway.  I'm not trying to paint a picture of "Doom and Gloom", but address what I'd consider a flaw.  I'm not stamping my feet, not making demands, I just want to know the logic behind some of the design choices so at least I have a better answer to a question than another question like "...Wait, why the **** is it like that?"

I could go on, but it's getting very late.  tl;dr:  While I've reconsidered some things, I still don't feel like I'm necessarily off-base with my criticism.  I look forward to more thought-provoking responses from you kind folks.

Simple. Profit. How can DE as a company churn out free to play content while getting their bang for their buck? 

As much as it annoys some, DE also needs to think like a company. In a F2P game they need to straddle the fine line between accessible and earning money. This includes their obligations to their shareholders, and employees. 

Of course you could go with a model like some games go and charge for expansions but that would turn the game away from what Warframe is. Warframe is grind heavy, and there's a huge learning curve and a wall for new players.

Facts of the matter: Is the game good? No. Is it broken? No. It's performed consistently since it launched, and is averagely good enough to be on the top 10 free to play Steam games. If more people felt the way you did, the game would have yeeted into death a long time ago. Why fix what isn't broken?

To you, maybe it's broken beyond repair. But the empirical facts show that with this 'brokenness', Warframe still survives. Therefore, it's conclusible that the playerbase learnt and adapted. 

Many of us who reached MR27/whatever meta/self-decided-endgame survived the insane grind that you claim so much to be a barrier. So I would respectfully put it back to you. Either this is a game you decide and enjoy, or simply, it is not the game for you. 

[(PSN)NewcastleDisease]

vor 16 Minuten schrieb Kurokazin:

 

@(PS4)NewcastleDiseaseYou only addressed half my point in a vacuum.  I wouldn't have even brought up me trying to help him if it weren't for massive flaws in the new player experience.  I'm lazy as hell, dude.  I don't want to babysit someone through the game just so they'll stick with it.  I also don't subscribe to the idea that because I slogged through it way back when, someone else should too.

but that's your problem: if you want to introduce someone to a game where you already be on high lvl you need to do exactly this. or let him go and make his own expiriences. not only in warframe - in every loot game it's the same.

but you can't play with a new one high lvl missions. that will not work. (also: not only in warframe - in every looter game)

so you have just this two options.

that he want to use ash is ok - but ash is a frame which need expierience to use him right. that's why he isn't available from beginning. beside that, if he want a melee frame, why not taking excal for the first time. also leveling isn't that complicated as you point it out... just do one rank a day, so you will level up fast. 

trading is a "problem" which already is adressed many time, but has nothing to do with new player expirience. no new player NEED anything you can trade. new player should rank up, play story missions and so on, to explore the world, the story, the full potential of their frames. as he ranks up, he will get more stuff, moe gear, more frames, more weapons, better mods more endo to build etc. he need to explore the starmap, the rails etc.

but he do not need to play on sedna or anythig else.

if you want to support him, play with him the story modes, the low level missions, let him know what to do and help him to get what he need.

that cost time.

but everything you say is: why can't he not just get everything on mastery rank 1 and play high level missions with his friends.

answer: because it's a looter game. if you want shortcut: pay for it.

thats how every of this game works. and warframe gives you a chance other game don't give: you can archive everything with just playing, without spending a single coin. you just have to play and invest time.

Edited August 9, 2019 by (PS4)NewcastleDisease
typo

[Firetrucksrule]

11 minutes ago, Kurokazin said:

He's got 21 hours on record(Just checked) and still can't play the game at the level we're playing at as 15+ mastery accounts.

Good. There is no reason that someone who's only put 21 hours into the game should be pushing the same content as people who've played for years. It takes time to progress because it's supposed to. What's the point in having high and low level missions if you can push the high level ones as soon as you start playing? Same with mastery ranks, what's the point in having different mastery ranks if you can push to 20 in two days? It completely defeats the purpose of a progression system. Sounds like your friend and you have some unreasonable expectations for his minimal amount of time invested. 

You could still meet him down the middle more. You don't need to be able to trade to go help him clear the star chart, farm out vanilla frames, farm relics, farm fissures or help him get needed resources. It's not reasonable to push him into late game content right out the gate. It's no wonder he's pissed at the game if you're leading him with such ridiculous expectations. If you want to play with him then just play with him, don't *@##$ that you can't bring him on a 2 hour survival or w/e content you're flexing at him. 

PS. You do realize you can't trade vanilla warframe blueprints right? If you want to help your friend get Ash then you're either going to need to get the prime parts to trade him or help him farm manics. 

[(PSN)thowed]

This topic is stupid and whiny.  You basically want to hand your friend everything without him doing anything alone.  You're mad he has to do a few basic tutorials and gain a little MR before you can give him things.  Came here cried about it and threw your little founder bs around like it means something.  Now you're trying to attack people that disagree.  Your friend shouldn't be able to contribute to vets without grinding and this happens in no other game.  What don't you understand about that?  My statement isn't stupid, the person reading it is.  I hope he quits before he makes it.  Welcome to ignore.

Edited August 9, 2019 by (PS4)thowed

[kikasnoob]

3 hours ago, Kurokazin said:

I guess I'll only address whatever you said that actually makes sense which is: "How is he supposed to learn how to play?"

That’s not what I said though! 

I said “htf is your mate going to learn how to play if you blow through the content for him”

you said it yourself!

“I can’t even help him out besides blowing through the planet system for him”

You might be a “vet” but by what you have posted you still don’t get it, even after all these years!

which is why I finished my first reply the way I did, because I though you were just taking the piss mate!

Anyway you do you bro. I hope you can find a way for both you and your friend to enjoy this game.

Edited August 9, 2019 by kikasnoob

[(PSN)GbHaseo]

While I understand your sentiments of wanting to play with your friend, the systems you're talking about are just unreasonable in a game like WF.

Whether it's WF, Destiny, Borderlands, Division, ESO, etc.. these games have specific gaps in accessibility. Beginning stuff, is always going to be too easy for a more advanced player. On top of that, there's really not any games like these where you can just go start the game and start playing on an equal field with your more advanced friends.

Games like Warframe, honestly, just take time to get going. You're either gonna have to teach him patience, start an alt account, or just severely limit yourself while teaching your friend the basics.

I'll use your chef reference, since I've opened a few restaurants.. You don't just take a new cook, hand them fancy ingredients, some fancy tools, and have them run the line first day.

No, you spend lots of time, sometimes years, teaching them beginner things, proper cutting and cooking methods, different tools, how to develop their taste, seasonings, cook time management, etc.. 

I mean you can't ask Gordon Ramsey to find challenge making a basic grilled cheese, and you can't ask a new cook, to go make his Beef Wellington. There's just too much in between that takes place. 

[Chappie]

I will tell you this...because you need to hear this.   You have made a worse "new player experience" than DE ever could.  You took every single ounce of joy this game could provide during the early stages and ground it up into a steaming pile of crap.   Any semblance of progression or "I eanred this" has been thrown in the toilet.  Your friend will quit because you created an environment that will cause him to quit...not DE.    Best of luck to you.

[PhazonMagala]

I'm relatively new to Warframe (I started around the time Gara was released Ithink) and unpopular opinion : I didn't think the new player experience was that bad, it didn't feel any more frustrating/hard than any other game

[kuciol]

Wait isnt mr2 test just shooting guys with your secondary? You try to tell me that thanks to you he couldnt even do that?!

[KazuXSora]

4 hours ago, Kurokazin said:

Why does someone need to wait 12 hours or spend money to access a dojo?  Why does there need to be a 30ish hour grace period before I can hook a brutha up with basic necessities

1. I dont where money come in this topic.

2. Considering that you need 24 for next Mastery test... That means he's played some 3-4 hours, went to sleep and continued playing once he woke up. Your dude has no life or what?

3. There are many 'basic necessities' in this game, mostly mod. And most of them can be earn just by playing. Just play casually.

4 hours ago, Kurokazin said:

How long should a person have to wait to properly enjoy a game with his buddies as a new player?

Dude, you've played 1300 hours. How can a newbie play with someone that can survive with lvl 100+ enemies. And don't expect someone that has play 2 days or less to be able to kill a lvl 30 enemy.

 

No, he can't 'enjoy' it cuz either way, he's too weak and has no experience. I've went through in other game as well, not just Warframe.

4 hours ago, Kurokazin said:

can't take him into anything I'd run because he'll just spend the entire time on the floor.  I can't solve the former because that'd just be handicapping myself and he knows it.  I can't solve the latter by giving him a maxed out vitality mod because of stupid-as-hell time-gating.

That "I'd run". Yeah. I guess you wont run something below lvl 20 because i dont male sense why you would. And he can't go above cuz he just starting. 

We dont start at lvl 20. Unless you a special case and know how to run before walking. (Or you've been reincarnated in this world with your knowledge of your past) (OHhh dis a reverse isekai)(Too bad, no harem in this world.)

 

And I don't have a maxed vitality. Rather, why you have it?? People use this??

4 hours ago, Kurokazin said:

If the learning curve takes over 15 hours of play, it needs to be smoothed or at least more accommodating

what 15 hours?? Just play Vor prizes and don't rush things. 

 

4 hours ago, Kurokazin said:

I've got over 1300 hours, I still don't have everything unlocked/upgraded/etc.

Believe me, even after 9999+ hours, you wont be able to unlocked everything cuz Empyrean is near and there are still updates. 

Unless this game is dead and DE stop updating it, dont try to unlocked everything. You can't.

Edited August 9, 2019 by KazuXSora

[(XBOX)Shodian]

You're complaining that your friend has to get to Master rank 2? The Mastery Rank that only takes a few hours to get to? You do realize that's out in place to help prevent people from making alt accounts to store their stuff in so they can't just dump items into bot accounts.

[Birkenhoff]

If the new player experience is: I want to rush a new guy into 5x3 hunts on his first day, OP is right.

Edited August 9, 2019 by Birkenhoff

[Iludra]

What you're describing is similar to a pro tennis player wanting to play against someone who never held a racket before and then complaining that this is a frustrating experience for both parties. Duh. 

There are many problems with new player experience, but it's none of what you've listed. 

[dwqrf]

Dear OP;

I'm sorry you both feel frustrated, but I have to say it too : it's only your fault.

Warframe is a Brain-heavy game. It gives you a lot of choices, a lot of informations, and you can make a lot of mistake. You have to process all of it to understand it. If you don't process it and rush too quick through the content, the story, and the tutorial, you end up having stuff but no clue both why and how it works.

If you want to play with your friend at low level, you have many option.s

The first option is to remove all your mods. Cause it's never the gear that is powerfull, but the mods you build it with, and those cost an insane amount of credits and endo YOU HAVE to grind for. Your friend doesn't have those. Even if you give him all the primed mods, he will never be able to level em up, thus, level difference.

Second option is to equip a Extinguished Dragon key, reducing your damage output to -75%. That wouldn't be enough reduction to stop you from cleaning the whole low level mission if you have the right build, but hey that's a start.

Third option is to learn to not ruin other's people experience by rushing like a mad man and waiting alone like an idiot at the extraction while your new friend never actually set a foot in the tile set. But that's probably a bad design from DE to not take into account the rushers cleaning the map with aoe out of affinity range of their protégé.

 

Warframe is a game where patience is key. Then comes the fun. Now, in all your explanation, it was obvious YOU don't have the patience required to take care of a new player. You cannot stop yourself from killing and nuking and rushing. You could just stand next to him and let him and your sentinel do the job, but no, you had to flex thoses potatoed gears and leave him behind. No wonder he is frustrated.

[Miser_able]

In no situation, virtual or not, would a new person be on par with someone who is brand new. I don't know why you expect it here. 

There is a reason we only have 3 starter Warframes to choose from. Those 3 don't require a whole lot of player experience or upgrades to work. We used to have Loki as a starter option, and he was a terrible starter. He was too squishy to survive anything without advanced mods that new players didn't have, his abilities required a tactical thought process, one that you wouldn't learned for some time, and he has no damage dealing abilities. And he's not the only frame like this. Lots of frames pretty much require specific mods to be good. 

 

As for ways to help him without blowing through content, I suggest switching out of your standard nuker frame, and into a support frame. Take something like trin to keep him topped up on health and energy, and don't bring your favorite weapons, instead bring weapons that need leveling whether it be for mastery or cause you put a forma in it.