Fatigue/Loss of Interest

[(PSN)Multi-Melta]

I honestly don't know where to put this thread, but general feedback seems best.

I hate Nightwave.

Before anyone inevitably cries foul or defends Nightwave, DE or calls me ungrateful, because there will always be those people and particularly in the PC community, let me explain:

Nightwave has caused me to actually loathe playing the game. At first I enjoyed going around and completing tasks as it was unique and new, however the novelty wore off rather quickly. Nightwave turned into an almost forced obligation to earn some rather cool looking stuff. It had awful tasks such as spending Forma and Gilding a weapon.

Every week there was something new, and sometimes something that I was actually forced to sacrifice my Rivens to the transmutation gods to complete sorties. I am currently sitting on 95 rivens and unable to actually trade a single riven, I must trade 5. I know not why this is, but I digress. Needless to say, those of us that are over capacity were forced to delete or trade away our Rivens to complete Nightwave missions.

Once the first Nightwave was completed I hoped it would stay gone for a number of months, to give myself a break from Warframe. I've been playing nearly everyday for two years so this feeling was awkward. While this is perhaps bizarre it is how I felt at the time.

Much to my chagrin, Nightwave was followed up with a rather broken Plague Star event (delivery drones) and I felt obligated to play it. Increasing my frustration in being unable to complete Plague Star runs due to poor AI pathing.

Then soon after Nightwave intermission showed up, layered with it the Glaxion Vandal/Spectra Vandal event. Bringing with it the same Nightwave missions, such as complete Sorties, spend Forma and Gild weapons.

Now this second round of Nightwave is conflicted with the Dog Days event. It all feels like work to be honest. On one hand I feel like I want to collect everything Dog Days has to offer and on the other I still need to complete the majority of the Nightwave missions.

I do not speak for anyone but myself, but I have a limited amount of time to play. I don't want to feel obligated to complete Nightwave on Warframe's schedule. I feel forced to play every week to Nightwave's tune and not what I actually want to play.

To put into perspective on how much I am put off by Warframe right now, I received (miraculously I might add) a resource booster 3 days in a row. I cannot stomach playing Warframe to farm Kuva (another issue entirely) or gather resources to utilize the booster.

I found myself running around on the Plains of Eidolon hunting down a Tusk Thumper and do you know what I felt? I felt the sudden urge to turn off the system and do chores around my house because I was so bored.

Nightwave and the ensuing string of events has put myself and my friends (albeit a small group) off of actively playing the game. I used to spend as much as six hours playing on my days off to now just logging in, spending maybe 40 minutes deliberating what is going to happen next in the book I'm reading, which is very good.

My experiences are personal. I don't feel like DE should stop whatever their doing just to appease the likes of me, but I felt the urge to put my thoughts down on digital paper. I think that what they (you) are trying to do is really great.

An influx of things to do, events to run and new weapons and enemies? What's not to love? Evidently for me, it is the simple fact that Nightwave feels forced and it just isn't for me.

I understand there is a full week to do the missions, yes. I also understand I shouldn't feel obligated to do them, but as I am the type of player to actually buy Primed Ammo mutation mods to simply have them in my collection I do. Perhaps a personal flaw.

Nightwave looms overhead, not as a fun thing to do, but as a dwindling timer that reminds me what I *must* do. I also mentioned earlier that I do have limited time, and so to me an hour or less everyday doesn't really get the Nightwave job done.

There are daily missions and those require attention as well. Sometimes they are quick (The Gliph ones are a particular favorite of mine. Hey, I'm lazy) but sometimes they can go slow (kill x amount of enemies with cold etc). Not to say that killing enemies is difficult, but it can become tedious in my opinion.

I don't know. Maybe I'm just getting old, maybe I don't know what I'm talking about (hey, maybe the most upvoted respons will say that I'm just getting old). My concern is really more for Warframe moving forward. I hope that Nightwave eventually goes away, sorry and no offense to those that enjoy it; or better yet put all those rewards in Baro's rotation.

Whether or not this all makes sense or not, I hope what can be gleaned from this is that Warframe now feels like a second job to me. I am sure I might be in the minority feeling this way but there it is. I just don't enjoy giving Warframe as much time as I used to, as the fun factor seems to be sucked out of it by Nora's cherry red lips.

Whatever you take away from this critique is up to you. Call it whatever you will, I hope some can understand this perspective.

Warframe is a great game, but if that game ceases to feel like a game can it still be called as such?

Edit: I would like to point out an error. I originally posted incorrectly that I felt like turning off the system and doing chores while looking for a Tusk Thumper. I actually did turn off the system and do chores. I just felt the need to clarify. I can elaborate if anyone wishes to know.

Edited August 9, 2019 by (PS4)Multi-Melta
Incorrect paragraph.

[(PSN)HollowMolloy]

If it feels like work, don't do it. Had to learn that myself. It's all OPTIONAL. And if you feel like jumping back in, i found the recoverysystem to work pretty well (was totally ignoring NW the first weeks) 

[Grimm]

dont forget you only need to do 60% of the challenges to gain enough.
i have been playing for 5 years and for 3 i would log in every day, it was only in the last year i slowed to nearly less then once a week, nigthtwave has me back to at least once a week to do the missions. 

if you have burn out take a break, nightwave has a recover system you can skip a week then come in and do both weeks challenges excluding the dailys. 

[(PSN)EyeGodZA]

51 minutes ago, (PS4)Multi-Melta said:

Now this second round of Nightwave is conflicted with the Dog Days event. It all feels like work to be honest. On one hand I feel like I want to collect everything Dog Days has to offer and on the other I still need to complete the majority of the Nightwave missions.

☝️This. I completely get ya, bud: here's literally a transcribe of a Telegram text between a friend (I met playing Warframe, and have never met irl) and I from last night:

 

Friend: I might be on Warframe much later tonight. Im not in the mood for grinding sake of grinding. 

[...]

Me: Yep. You gonna hop on tonight?

[...]

Me: Oh, man... I actually just logged in... then logged right the #*!% back out again. I just can’t tonight.

Friend: Yep. It's that #*!%ing grind.

 

This comes from somebody who's been a staunch Nightwave supporter... Last night I kinda just had my fill, and it was exacerbated by the fact that I only had two more Fortuna bounties to do, as I did three the other night... But for some reason they'd been reset and I had to do all five all over again... And I was just like, nope... Not that... Then I thought, what about the Thumpers? Then it was like... Hmmm... What frame, what weapons, what build, cos I haven't battled that many Thumpers as yet, to be honest... Then I was like... 200 kills? Maybe... But then it was "which game mode do I play, which frame, which weapon!?" and I was just like "NOPE!" and logged out and into Hitman 2... Something a bit more structured with clearer goals and more direction.

This led me to thinking: Nightwave thrives on the grind and FOMO; it's nailed that FOMO aspect perfectly, which is good... But if you're constantly feeling FOMO, it does become unpleasant, because instead of playing to enjoy, you're playing for FOMO, and that becomes a chore. So, my big epiphany:

STAGGER NIGHTWAVE SERIES!

Give us a decent two month break between series, and sprinkle these breaks with events and operations and Gifts from the Lotus (or other occasional Alerts that drop potatoes and Nitain and/or other rewards from the old Alerts system) so that you don't always have to feel conflicted about whether to do Nightwave or some other timed event/operation... or even focus on your own personal goals and tasks such as farming for gear you don't have or leveling for better builds, etc.

Beyond that, these breaks can be used to tease the next Nightwave series and build some hype: cool little cinematics from Nora; random transmissions that suggest something is coming, and setting up some world-building with lore that'll tie into The New War, Duviri Paradox and Empyrean.

There is so much potential here, but it feels that - perhaps on a massive mission to show the likes of Anthem, Destiny and The Division how it's done - players are being bombarded with so much content that it's more overwhelming than it is fun.

 

TL;DR: Stagger Nightwave Series with two month breaks to allow players to catch their breath and find some enjoyment on their own terms again.

[(PSN)Double991]

I've seen this work in Apex legends, just make the challenges for every week remain for the whole season.

Aside from the resource sink challenges, the rest of nightwave is a test of your ability throughout the entire game.

3 of my fortuna bounties were profit taker related and my 5th bounty was exploiter orb.

I farmed Tusk Thumper Domas on the regular while trying to get the Korrudo. So naturally this one was easy. Some tips would be to pick a t5 bounty to spawn them, and use Zenurik's Temporal Blast to slow them.

[OmegaVoid]

I too feel it would be nice to have a break from Nightwave between seasons.

My suggestion would be... Alert Cred.

Think about it: the problem with Alerts was if you were unlucky you could repeatedly miss the Alert which rewarded the thing you wanted.

So: Alerts come back for a few weeks between Nightwave seasons, but just award Alert Cred for completion, with a Cred Offerings screen.

Between Nightwaves you'd farm Alert Cred for your Nitain, Potatoes, Alt Helmets, Aura Mods, etc.

I sometimes miss Alerts; sometimes they'd throw up a mission I wouldn't have thought of doing, but which was really fun.

And they'd virtually always give you a full squad in pub, regardless of the general popularity of the node.

Some players would be happier when the Alerts were going on, some would prefer it when a Nightwave is active.

Some wouldn't mind much either way.

And some folks are never happy, but what can you do? 😆

[Test-995]

It's fine if they just remove conservation or aphothic thing, maybe both.

[(XBOX)Shodian]

I did all this week's night wave in three hours. It wasn't hard at all. The building challenge isn't coming back so you don't have to worry about that. 

[kuciol]

55 minutes ago, Test-995 said:

It's fine if they just remove conservation or aphothic thing, maybe both.

Apothic i kinda get why, its entire process to get them etc but conservation? Its fast and easy even to newer players.

[Femuru]

ok nightwave isnt hard and it doesnt force you to play it, if anything half the rewards in the entire game is pointless. it kinda feels like the opposite spectrum of the whole arguing about "endgame" topic as now its something ppl can say you cant complain cause the game reward you for "effort". HOWEVER even as someone who love to see some of those ppl now complaining when they complained that ppl had opinions of wanting a game that needs some form of engagement like cough* endgame cough*, i actually dont agree with nightwave either. nightwave is just recycling content and i think is just wasting reward ideas but in a rpg progressing kind of game wont have the right impact as battle royal games when it comes to a battle pass. what do i mean? in a battle royal game you jump in and get your missions done right away with a barely slight incentive to do abit of extra in a normal game but in a game like warframe basically needs you get through the heavy grind before being able to do some of them so even if its boring to someone like me, i can understand it being frustrating to noobies or time consumed by work especially when its set on a timer unlike other games where content is just there for if you wanna try it or not. i dislike nightwave not cuz theyre "hard" or they need you to "play" but i dislike them cuz theyre just dailies for the ppl who feel completely dried out with absolutely nothing to do but that isnt how a game should encourage players to keep playing, if anything the more i think about it probly is becoming more like a phone game that way. i have said this many times and ill say it many more, many games are several times more popular than warframe still despite looking like a amazing game while other games have way less content because they make quality content on what theyre trying to be. other games keep their players engaged whether its by pvp, raids, real exploration, actual challenges or progressing gameplay that becomes more fun not more cheesy or glorified dailies aka nightwave.

Edited August 9, 2019 by SutomuDrgn

[_junguler]

you have to make peace with not having everything there is to have in this game and if you don't, exactly your situation happens. playing games or any other hobby for that matter shouldn't feel like work. play as little or as much of this game as you want, just as long as you are having fun.

[fr4gb4ll]

first of all, stop feeling 'forced' to everything from each event or even all new stuff asap. as you said yourself, this would be like having a 2nd job each day - which might ok if you like this job so much that putting a lot of time into it isn't like work but more like a fun relaxation.

since most things in warframe are earnable more than once and without too much of a timeframe involved, you can play the game 'casual' as it is/was proclaimed (which honestly it isn't and never was ^^) and still have fun doing it - and this, imo, the only reason to play any game at all.

the nightwave/season 2 won't force you to do each and every challenge to get to the max rank (or rather the last bit of reward at rank 30). sure, if would do all of them you might get some more potatos this way, but those are not worth the efford if grinding for it with things one doesn't like doing (like those 'forma x-time' and 'gild stuff', which seemingly they removed after the first week or at least made them very rare... we'll see about this in the reminding time). the plague star event is only of interest if you really have need of the rewards and/of the stuff you exchange your participation point in the city... then, it might even be a better way doing than grinding those rewards in the normal way. myself, i didn't do the last 2 plague star events at all and only spend a little bit of time the two before that - because i didn't had any reason to do it and, like you said, it gets tedious when repeating it over and over again (DE once annoyed the hell out of me playing the derelict maps when a 'certain' weapon research needed tons of 'certain' resources that had the best drop-chance there... i still hate the derelict after all the time - thx DE!).

lets face it: warframe is a grinding game to the core. though one, that still is fun most of the times (at least for many of us) doing it. if you're one of 'those' people who gets bored by something fast or feel forced by any game-mechanic like the RNG, you should probably stop playing it and avoid such games in general. this doesn't make warframe a bad game nor does it make you a bad person - it's just life (real one and artifical one ^^) - some people just hate certain things with passion. myself, i love racing cars and bikes and love flying to a fault, but i sure as hell hate playing racing games or not-combat-flight simulators on computer... strange but true - even those game that are getting real close to realism... so that can't be the reson for it (at least not the only one). even with rather simple games like check or card games it's the same - i like them in real life but dislike them on computer.

best advice i can give you is pause on warframe for a longer while or at least only do the log-in to it to keep the game updated, your accout unlocked and stay informed of what's going on in general... not to mention getting on in the log-in-reward list ^^)

[Test-995]

16 hours ago, kuciol said:

Apothic i kinda get why, its entire process to get them etc but conservation? Its fast and easy even to newer players.

Not untrue, i think i just don't like something that uses my eye badly.

Scan makes me sick, same goes for following hard to see footprint in super white valley.

[Awazx]

Il y a 21 heures, (PS4)Multi-Melta a dit :

I hate Nightwave.

It was enough for me to read this to give you my +1.

Nighwave is the philosophy of: "... do all that you don't want to do, to get what you want."

[Awazx]

Il y a 21 heures, (PS4)HollowMolloy a dit :

Had to learn that myself. It's all OPTIONAL. 

NO, it is not optional. There are certain rewards that you can only get by playing Nighwave. It is premeditated to force the player to go through an endless grinding wall, with no possibility or alternative to obtain their rewards by other means. Also, that is a sum of boring, unnecessary or tedious tasks. It is simply a bad design.

[marelooke]

On 2019-08-09 at 1:45 PM, (XB1)GaussPrime said:

You, and everyone else, just need to suck it up. I did, and it helped.

This comes from someone that even went out and insulted DE on a regular basis because of season 1. Season 1 caused me even to burn out after 5 years of playing.

But I learned. I learned that it's normal that DE wants us to play their game. There's nothing wrong with it. Heck, the thumper act made me fight them the first time since their release.

I think what helped the most is the degrindification. And I hope they continue to work on it. (Looking at 5 different bounties which take up to 30mins to an hour, depending on luck, layout and team, which is a lot for one act)

Don't take my first words too serious, I mean it in a good way. I complained and complained about having to take part of most of the games content. I excused with "oh I already did this 100 times, uhh this is boring" blah blah blah. But in the end, we get rewarded for it. And nightwave includes really good rewards.

Also keep in mind you don't have to do every single challenge. For example from all the ones they released I had to skip the conservation challenge because I really don't want to do it. And I don't have to.

What also helps is not trying to force yourself to do it all in one day and ASAP. You have a week time, and even if you skip a few, you can redo them after completing another week. So there's no actual pressure. 

I think Nightwave is going to get better and better over time.

Nah, it won't. By it's very nature it can't get better. It forces you to play, when WF used to be one of those "easy come, easy go" games where you could binge, then hibernate for a month or two and then binge some more if you chose. Nightwave very purposefully takes that away (to make the player counts seem better, I imagine) to the detriment of their longtime players. It's what battle passes are designed to do, of course, most of the games that do battle passes don't have the shelf life WF has, or a playerbase that's not used to this kind of idiocy, so a great many more Warframe players won't blindly accept it.

But don't worry, people will stop complaining, when they inevitably quit.

Edited August 10, 2019 by marelooke

[George_PPS]

Don't get burned out. Just relax and balance your other activities in game and in real life. For me, NW provides some solid objective to grind for daily and weekly. Before NW, there weren't those awesome rewards at the end of Rank 30. Now we have it but you can still choose just to grind for lower ranked items. It's optional.

[Kimimoto]

On 2019-08-09 at 6:02 AM, (PS4)EyeGodZA said:

TL;DR: Stagger Nightwave Series with two month breaks to allow players to catch their breath and find some enjoyment on their own terms again.

There needs to be a balance between more hardcore players and casual players, IMO right now that balance is being met

[Klokwerkaos]

as others have said, you are not required to complete nightwave and it is 100% optional.

if you want the rewards, well then you have to ask yourself what's more important, the rewards or the enjoyment?  there is no wrong answer, but the important thing is you don't seem to be genuinely answering this question or you wouldn't have this problem.

if you don't like an aspect of the game, don't do it because it's not for you.

[(PSN)BenHeisennberg]

On 2019-08-09 at 2:05 AM, (PS4)HollowMolloy said:

If it feels like work, don't do it. Had to learn that myself. It's all OPTIONAL. And if you feel like jumping back in, i found the recoverysystem to work pretty well (was totally ignoring NW the first weeks) 

This exactly.

Not only that, but with the catch up mechanic, you could ignore it most of the time and still get to max rank.

[(PSN)BenHeisennberg]

23 hours ago, Awazx said:

NO, it is not optional. There are certain rewards that you can only get by playing Nighwave. It is premeditated to force the player to go through an endless grinding wall, with no possibility or alternative to obtain their rewards by other means. Also, that is a sum of boring, unnecessary or tedious tasks. It is simply a bad design.

You can get auras by getting the first rank.  They frontloaded the creds.  You'll probably get that accidentally if you play at all.

If you're talking about umbral forma, we've demolished everything in the game without that on one warframe.

On 2019-08-09 at 3:02 AM, (PS4)EyeGodZA said:

This led me to thinking: Nightwave thrives on the grind and FOMO; it's nailed that FOMO aspect perfectly, which is good... But if you're constantly feeling FOMO, it does become unpleasant, because instead of playing to enjoy, you're playing for FOMO, and that becomes a chore.

This returns to the point I've made in the past:  people experiencing this psychological condition need help, not for the game to change for them.

[000l000]

Le 09/08/2019 à 10:59, (PS4)Multi-Melta a dit :

...

You're forced by no one to do absolutely nothing at all. There's absolutely no issue with Nightwaves but only the way you're actually playing a game. You can miss lots of missions and still get every single reward so you need to chill out and relax - World won't even crumble if you miss one or two things, seriously - most of them are only cosmetics anyway.

Most people complaining around here can't get the simple point that Warframe is only a game, we aren't forced to anything if this is no fun. If a daily isn't much interesting to me, i don't care - simple as that.

And when i'm bored with Warframe there are bilions of other games around to be played. This game isn't supposed to be played that much by vets, it becomes quite repetitive anyway even if newest contents brought a lot of new stuff.

Edited August 11, 2019 by 000l000

[marelooke]

16 hours ago, (XB1)GaussPrime said:

Oh I used to write walls about how bad nightwave is etc. but I'm over it. I play the game regularly already so it doesn't affect me, the fear of missing out. (Though I complete everything day 1 :P)

guess all I can say to those leaving because of it, good bye 😞

(I also went away weeks after season 1, only logging in to log out, or while it was active, log in do tasks log out)

But like I said, it already became better by reducing the grind.. it's not perfect, but it's less hours now than before.

Which is kind of acceptable for me now. :3

If I stick with a game for like 6 years I'd like to be able to take breaks without missing out (and given that cosmetics are pretty much all there is left to get the "it's optional" "argument" is just ... /facepalm). This was one of the major defining features Warframe had over almost every other MMO and over all looter-shooters. Adding Nightwave just removes one of the major things it had going for it.

Imho it also says a lot about the course of DE, it appears that income, or appearance towards investors, is now more of a driving force behind the game's design than providing a fun game (note that it's not just Nigthwave that leads me to this conclusion, but that's not a topic for this thread).

It would be ironic that if Bungie turns the ship around now that they're free from Activision they might end up with a better monetisation policy than DE given that the games appear to be headed in opposite directions. DE still has the good guy reputation while Bungie is still shaking the taint of Activision's monetisation policies but depending on what either party does their positions could switch pretty easily with how DE has been riding the line (cue Alien Sex Fiend)

We'll see how it goes, of course, but it would sadden me to see Warframe go down the drain.

Edited August 11, 2019 by marelooke
speeling be hard, mon

[Drachnyn]

vor 23 Minuten schrieb marelooke:

Imho it also says a lot about the course of DE, it appears that income, or appearance towards investors, is now more of a driving force behind the game's design than providing a fun game (note that it's not just Nigthwave that leads me to this conclusion, but that's not a topic for this thread).

It would be ironic that if Bungie turns the ship around now that they're free from Activision they might end up with a better monetisation policy than DE given that the games appear to be headed in opposite directions. DE still has the good guy reputation while Bungie is still shaking the taint of Activision's monetisation policies but depending on what either party does their positions could switch pretty easily with how DE has been riding the line (cue Alien Sex Fiend)

We'll see how it goes, of course, but it would sadden me to see Warframe go down the drain.

What does Nightwave have to do with monetisation? You cant buy the exclusive rewards and it doesnt cost money despite being basically a season pass. If anything it makes reactors and catalysts easier and more consistent to obtain.

[Gofretko]

5 hours ago, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

If you're talking about umbral forma, we've demolished everything in the game without that on one warframe.

That is true, however this opens up possibilities to more efficiently kill sentients while not playing Excalibur Umbra only. Is it not completely obvious? People in Warframe love efficiency.

5 hours ago, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

This returns to the point I've made in the past:  people experiencing this psychological condition need help, not for the game to change for them. 

Take a hike. This is proven to work on almost all people, by marketing agencies and scientists alike. It's amazing how many people preach "go do more real life" but then, like you, are entirely clueless of some aspects of real life. Do yourself a favour and go read on FOMO and the usual brain vulnerabilities marketing preys upon. And stop, just stop already, spreading misinformation. FOMO is practically in the top 5 of universally applicable brain bugs / defects / manipulation hatches. Why is this even a debate?

 

Overall, your comment leaves me scratching my head. Everything I said as a counter-argument to you is blindingly obvious.