Rework on 1 Button Room Clear

[kwlingo]

Too many Frame now are push 1 button and room clear, Saryn, Volt, Equinox, Mesa, etc. I use to love using those frames when I started and still think they are great but I feel something is off with the way the rest of the frames operate. I think these frames need a rework to bring them back down to the level of the rest of the frame when it comes to clearing rooms. For example the Simulor use to be... shoot a few shots in the middle of the room and let it explode (BOOM) room done. It was too Op so they nerfed it, now its only does a small radius, little damage. It shouldn't be that these frame are clearing the entire room with 1 or 2 clicks just standing in one spot. Wasn't this why they nerfed Ember's "World on Fire?" After nerf I only see Ember on lower level missions. What would be a good solution...?

[HugintheCrow]

1 minute ago, kwlingo said:

Too many Frame now are push 1 button and room clear, Saryn, Volt, Equinox, Mesa,

Wrong.

[kwlingo]

6 minutes ago, HugintheCrow said:

Wrong.

Go check out ESO

Edited August 11, 2019 by kwlingo

[Giantconch]

12 minutes ago, kwlingo said:

 Wasn't this why they nerfed Ember's "World on Fire?"

 

No. Embers WoF was "press a button then go make a sandwich while everything dies"

 

Same as why Resonating Soundquake augment for Banshee got changed. Absolutely zero interaction required after pressing one button.

[Cubewano]

Just now, Giantconch said:

 

No. Embers WoF was "press a button then go make a sandwich while everything dies"

 

Same as why Resonating Soundquake augment for Banshee got changed. Absolutely zero interaction required after pressing one button.

Well it was overall because it was an inactive playstyle, you pressed a button and the ability did the rest, even just walking through rooms, which it can be argued a lot of nukes infringe on themselves as being overly simple but extremely effective damage tools. It's why Ash and Excalibur originally got retooling as well, even though they did have to multi cast for the abilities to work overall, it just wasn't a very healthy kind of situation activity wise. 

That said, DE seemed to do an entire flip on this sentiment after either the Ember or Ash rework (can't remember which was last) and since then have pretty much thrown concern to wind in regards to how active a kit needs to be, or even balanced. 

[Austeee]

You named 4 out of what, 41 different frames? 4 is to many? 4 or 5 nuke frames that are rarely seen outside of ESO is to many to have/choose from? 

[nslay]

Yeah, I really think they need to remove any button pressing. Just make Saryn Umbra and duck in the void while the AI presses 4 the whole game.

[stormy505]

57 minutes ago, kwlingo said:

Go check out ESO

he's talking about how the frames mentioned don't stand still and press more then 1 button to do what they do. saryn needs to spread her spores to deal damage which you need to use weapons to do. equinox needs to kill enemies with weapons to nuke as well. even mesa uses her other abilities to keep herself alive and deal extra damage though thats kinda level dependent. if volt wasn't so damn hard to build for multiply abilities then he would also use speed to get around and his shield to stay alive.

[stormy505]

51 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

Well it was overall because it was an inactive playstyle, you pressed a button and the ability did the rest, even just walking through rooms, which it can be argued a lot of nukes infringe on themselves as being overly simple but extremely effective damage tools. It's why Ash and Excalibur originally got retooling as well, even though they did have to multi cast for the abilities to work overall, it just wasn't a very healthy kind of situation activity wise. 

That said, DE seemed to do an entire flip on this sentiment after either the Ember or Ash rework (can't remember which was last) and since then have pretty much thrown concern to wind in regards to how active a kit needs to be, or even balanced. 

i gave reasons in an earlier post about how saryn, mesa, volt and equinox actually do interact with the game and enemies to deal damage. unlike with ember who you could just press 4 and walk through a low level mission. which was the playstyle DE is trying to combat. i was ether very new to the game when the ash rework happened or didn't care about the patch notes at the time so i can't say i knew how ash played. but i imagine it was in a similar vane to how ember played. press one button with zero interactions with anything else for the entire game.

[(PSN)Double991]

1 hour ago, kwlingo said:

Go check out ESO

The mode promotes this...

[nslay]

35 minutes ago, (NSW)Austee said:

You named 4 out of what, 41 different frames? 4 is to many? 4 or 5 nuke frames that are rarely seen outside of ESO is to many to have/choose from? 

I see them quite a lot in normal missions... Exterminate, Defense, Interception, Survival. They are very popular frames to play!

9 minutes ago, stormy505 said:

he's talking about how the frames mentioned don't stand still and press more then 1 button to do what they do. saryn needs to spread her spores to deal damage which you need to use weapons to do. equinox needs to kill enemies with weapons to nuke as well. even mesa uses her other abilities to keep herself alive and deal extra damage though thats kinda level dependent. if volt wasn't so damn hard to build for multiply abilities then he would also use speed to get around and his shield to stay alive.

Whatever interactions they involve does not seem obvious. It's hard to appreciate those interactions from an external perspective! All I experience is the rare chance I actually get to shoot something. Some nuke frame players are either bored of 4 or more considerate and don't actively press 4 all the time... you might go the whole mission with a Saryn or a Mesa and not even notice them. Other players, 30-60 seconds into an Interception and they've got 100 kills and everyone else 5-10. And it's extremely boring to play with them.

 

[Cubewano]

10 minutes ago, stormy505 said:

i gave reasons in an earlier post about how saryn, mesa, volt and equinox actually do interact with the game and enemies to deal damage. unlike with ember who you could just press 4 and walk through a low level mission. which was the playstyle DE is trying to combat. i was ether very new to the game when the ash rework happened or didn't care about the patch notes at the time so i can't say i knew how ash played. but i imagine it was in a similar vane to how ember played. press one button with zero interactions with anything else for the entire game.

read my full post please

[stormy505]

2 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

read my full post please

i did. and i'm saying nuke frames don't infringe on the territory of inactive and DE never switched their stance on that topic.

they don't want frames that can AFK through missions and that hasn't changed

[nslay]

Just now, stormy505 said:

i did. and i'm saying nuke frames don't infringe on the territory of inactive and DE never switched their stance on that topic.

they don't want frames that can AFK through missions and that hasn't changed

What about Excalibur Umbra?

[Cubewano]

2 minutes ago, stormy505 said:

i did. and i'm saying nuke frames don't infringe on the territory of inactive and DE never switched their stance on that topic.

they don't want frames that can AFK through missions and that hasn't changed

apparently not by this response, but thanks.

Edited August 11, 2019 by Cubewano

[(XBOX)Papa Requiem]

1 hour ago, HugintheCrow said:

1 hour ago, kwlingo said:

Too many Frame now are push 1 button and room clear, Saryn, Volt, Equinox, Mesa,

Wrong.

Correct. OP is COMPLETELY WRONG

[(XBOX)Papa Requiem]

1 hour ago, kwlingo said:

Go check out ESO

Saryn doesn't wipe the whole map with one button in ESO. I would know, I'm a Saryn main. Get out of here.

[Yamazuki]

1 hour ago, kwlingo said:

Go check out ESO

ESO isn't the whole game. There's nothing wrong with a handful of Warframes dominating a specific type of content, given for other types of content other Warframes dominate those. This happens when ever there's different options, they'll just be good at different things.

[Oreades]

If you don't like the play style...... just don't play with them. You're welcome

[(XBOX)Papa Requiem]

2 minutes ago, Yamazuki said:

ESO isn't the whole game. There's nothing wrong with a handful of Warframes dominating a specific type of content, given for other types of content other Warframes dominate those. This happens when ever there's different options, they'll just be good at different things.

Plus of course in ESO where you need to KILL things, damage dealing frames are going to be at the freaking forefront. If OP doesn't want to join the pack he can leave.

[George_PPS]

Wrong. Some of these 4 frames out of 41 may work in ESO, they don’t work all that well in some other missions. Now many frames are designed for specific mission types with varying  enemy spawning rate and density. That’s a great game design. Very well balanced. 

Edited August 11, 2019 by George_PPS

[kwlingo]

52 minutes ago, (XB1)RevenantRequiem said:

Saryn doesn't wipe the whole map with one button in ESO. I would know, I'm a Saryn main. Get out of here.

lol here's a video just for you. I play her also. 

 

51 minutes ago, Oreades said:

If you don't like the play style...... just don't play with them. You're welcome

I think you only read part of my statement and only thought about being contradictive. "I stated I think they are great frames." Its like before they started working on Melee rework because it was to OP being able to blindly kill enemies through wall. Everyone who loved going through walls with melee didn't like how they reworked it. What is the difference with abilities going through walls and not even knowing your killing enemies you cannot see. This is what makes them so powerful when it comes to killing large numbers of enemies while it keeps scaling up as long as you can refresh the spread. If that's not killing without seeing is not an issue I'd like to see this placed into the game.. lol

 

[stormy505]

22 minutes ago, kwlingo said:

lol here's a video just for you. I play her also. 

The build is a bit misleading. He needs to constantly redeploy his secondary to spread the spores and that takes moving around the entire map. It only works in eso cause of enemy density. in any star chart mission not enough enemies to keep spores alive. If he's standing still then the damage output enemies do would require him to slide attack around the map to heal.

even if this setup was worth all the effort it takes to setup and maintain, (Imo it isn't.) DE could fix it by not letting spores spread from things that attack on their own. Like specters, zenistar type weapons, wukong clone etc.

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

Even IF (and it's completely not the case) one-button room clearing was a common thing for some frames, I wouldn't be against it. You know what sort of game this is, WarFARM as many say... anything that reduces the tedium by wiping out a room of fodder is a good thing to get stuff, in my book.

Personally, I don't play those nuke frames, but that's not because I have anything against them... I just enjoy a less optimal style of play myself that focuses on melee.

I am NEVER mad, when I get in a group that has a room nuker, even if that means I don't have any immediate targets to kill once in a while (I know how to go find enemies if I want them, and I know how to capitalize on a boon like having a nuker with me.)