If enemies are buffed?

[844448]

Let's say these are some buffs on grineer and corpus I'm going to suggest to DE

1. Running speed is doubled (or made to be as fast as Garesh on dog days)

2. Now they hide behind cover completely, leaving no body parts exposed

3. They react better when behind cover, quickly retreat to cover when damaged

4. They put suppressing fire, laying down a bullet hell on you while some moves around to surround you

5. Grenades are more often to flush you out

6. They now have improved blind fire, only having the weapons visible instead of a bit of their arm exposed

7. Accuracy is greatly increased, damage is tuned to make it "fair enough"

8. Enemies now have range awareness, retreating to a distance where your skills don't hit them and have rough calculation to stay away from your ability range. Combat range where they open fire is increased

Don't worry, press 4 to win will still viable, just need to approach them instead of waiting them to come to you

 

[evilChair]

You want people to aim in Warframe. Prepare for sentient fighters the gibbet.

[844448]

2 minutes ago, evilChair said:

You want people to aim in Warframe. Prepare for sentient fighters the gibbet.

Don't make me start making this guy as a grineer

You don't want to know what I'm going to put as his weaponry

[RX-3DR]

The gunplay in Warframe is fine save for a few weapons that are too effective at close enough mechanics. What's the purpose of this? 

On the 8th point, this would break the game on so many fronts. The AI cannot react ahead of time and clear 50 meters regardless of LoS before it gets hit by your abilities. In most cases, you will just see a ton of enemies that spawned far away stay far away while the ones that spawned nearby would be immediately nuked. Even if the engagement distances for the AI is significantly increased, it wouldn't mean anything because they still require a proper LoS to do anything. You would have a Plains scenario where enemies, given appropriate space, will just shoot at you at 100 meters across the map and would just be incredibly annoying, or it will make absolutely no difference because in a corridor that is 20 meters long, where is he supposed to shoot you from?

[Chewarette]

Grineers have an IQ below room temperature, they're not Warmongers masterminds, they're only a threat because of their sheer numbers.

Corpus are traders.

Infested is basically a hive but anyway I guess your suggestions don't really apply to them as they're mostly Melee units.

There isn't any single enemy in Warframe which is supposed to be that threatening. Sentients could pull something like that, but imo that'd be more boring than interesting. That would reduce the gunplay to nothing, as enemies hiding everywhere only means the Ignis Wraith just skyrockets into the Meta and press4towin is the only remaining solution for efficient farming.

And that would be a complete pain in Open Worlds. Warframes relying on Abilities already have a hard time here as 50m-range is already way too low to hit anything there (even a max range Saryn cannot have fun as Spores can't really spread), so if enemies purposely get out of range...

[MrInubis]

Why you try to change warframe into destiny instead of playing damn destiny?

[TaurusDeRoma]

The only point he does have is that the AI needs significant improvements, it is too easy. Corpus need to have more automated environmental defenses, and Grineer need to make better use of their numbers. Infested, they just need more variety, maybe have them make an imitation warframe that tries to better match us, someway to show that they are evolving. 

They need better ways to counter the Tenno, not with invincibility, but countermeasures that target specific types of abilities and powers.

[Gabbynaru]

Just... play a different game, dude. It's clear you don't enjoy this one and want it to be something else. Save yourself this agony, play something else. There are so many great games out there, don't limit yourself to just this one.

[(PSN)thowed]

What's with all these topics lately about changing Warframe into something else?  The Division, Gears of War, Destiny etc. all exist.  No need to change the 1 that is different.

[Kainosh]

53 minutes ago, 844448 said:

Let's say these are some buffs on grineer and corpus I'm going to suggest to DE

1. Running speed is doubled (or made to be as fast as Garesh on dog days)

2. Now they hide behind cover completely, leaving no body parts exposed

3. They react better when behind cover, quickly retreat to cover when damaged

4. They put suppressing fire, laying down a bullet hell on you while some moves around to surround you

5. Grenades are more often to flush you out

6. They now have improved blind fire, only having the weapons visible instead of a bit of their arm exposed

7. Accuracy is greatly increased, damage is tuned to make it "fair enough"

8. Enemies now have range awareness, retreating to a distance where your skills don't hit them and have rough calculation to stay away from your ability range. Combat range where they open fire is increased

Don't worry, press 4 to win will still viable, just need to approach them instead of waiting them to come to you

 

Yes. 

I suggested AI improvements for quite some time already.  

 

Not sure if this should affect all enemies, but Commanders and other "elite" troops should totally act like proper soldiers.  Some should run and gun, some should retreat when you close in (snipers) and all that should happen quite FAST. 

Because current enemy reaction time does not give them any chance to show off many of their features...they just die before they even start acting.

[Cubewano]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)thowed said:

What's with all these topics lately about changing Warframe into something else?  The Division, Gears of War, Destiny etc. all exist.  No need to change the 1 that is different.

Funnily enough this game used to be much more balanced like people are asking it to be, than the state you are currently defending it for. So they're more asking to go back to its core than anything. Warframe wasn't always devoid of any enemy threat, at least not so effortlessly, what a single frame can do today used to take an entire team with proper coordination to manage.

That said, just being different isn't a defense for something to be the way it is. If it's the creators desire/vision that's one thing, but as we all know de aren't exactly proud of present balance (or what they call no balance) that is Warframe. 

[Kainosh]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)thowed said:

No need to change the 1 that is different.

Its not different....its lacking.

Current enemy's AI is so slow that you can simply WALK behind him and dance while he is still "covering"... 

Their mobility and other combat maneuvers are also pretty ineffective.

 

Rathuum and Dog Days enemies are a bit better....but they still do not react to sniper fire. They dont dodge when you shoot from far away even if they see you.

[MrInubis]

6 minutes ago, Kainosh said:

Yes. 

I suggested AI improvements for quite some time already.  

 

Not sure if this should affect all enemies, but Commanders and other "elite" troops should totally act like proper soldiers.  Some should run and gun, some should retreat when you close in (snipers) and all that should happen quite FAST. 

Because current enemy reaction time does not give them any chance to show off many of their features...they just die before they even start acting.

Thats just how this game is. It doesnt matter how smart AI is if they die at rate 1000 / s. You make them run away, they will get annoying and nothing more, you make them hide we will just AoE them down or get punch through on every weapon and so on.

[JackHargreav]

Nice ideas.

But everyone would be crying because they have to put in some effort to kill.

[(PSN)thowed]

2 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

Funnily enough this game used to be much more balanced like people are asking it to be, than the state you are currently defending it for. So they're more asking to go back to its core than anything. Warframe wasn't always devoid of any enemy threat, at least not so effortlessly, what a single frame can do today used to take an entire team with proper coordination to manage.

That said, just being different isn't a defense for something to be the way it is. If it's the creators desire/vision that's one thing, but as we all know de aren't exactly proud of present balance (or what they call no balance) that is Warframe. 

Been playing since release.  When it first came out all you had to do was run Rhino through the entire game.  No maxed mods or anything like that was needed.  It felt more challenging because lack of leveled mods, lack of variety of mods and frame powers.  Most of these topics aren't just talking about balance, they basically describe another game that already exists.  We should bring back the Platinum for revives too.

[rs_sakuras]

If they buff enemies same thing would happen when the 1hr nightwave survival was a thing. People would complain that "game is too hard" even though you could do 1hr survival without a single mod on your warframe pretty easily.

[Cubewano]

1 minute ago, (PS4)thowed said:

Been playing since release.  When it first came out all you had to do was run Rhino through the entire game.  No maxed mods or anything like that was needed.  It felt more challenging because lack of leveled mods, lack of variety of mods and frame powers.  Most of these topics aren't just talking about balance, they basically describe another game that already exists.  We should bring back the Platinum for revives too.

You'd have to run much slower, as you certainly weren't killing everything the instant they appeared in large aoes. And towards higher levels you'd be fibbing, back then Rhinos armor didn't even have a scaling mechanic, it just gave flat armor, and it definitely could fail out after points, and without an iframe operator to pick you up or a nuke to clean the room so you were safe when you got back on your feet, well modded or not. Its part of why CC was so prized back then, we actually needed panic buttons at the time to save us if we got overwhelmed, now that's not so much a thing anymore, we're incredibly safe and incredibly unthreatened. It's kind of ironic that revives lost their monetary value and then soon enough after became largely meaningless, frankly if we reverted back i'm not sure it would matter much nowadays. though i guess it could still trick really new solo players, so best not to all the same. 

[George_PPS]

Warframe is a super fast paced and mass enemy annihilation game. If it is turned into a slow game, it’s no longer warframe. 

[MrInubis]

5 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

You'd have to run much slower, as you certainly weren't killing everything the instant they appeared in large aoes. And towards higher levels you'd be fibbing, back then Rhinos armor didn't even have a scaling mechanic, it just gave flat armor, and it definitely could fail out after points, and without an iframe operator to pick you up or a nuke to clean the room so you were safe when you got back on your feet, well modded or not. Its part of why CC was so prized back then, we actually needed panic buttons at the time to save us if we got overwhelmed, now that's not so much a thing anymore, we're incredibly safe and incredibly unthreatened. It's kind of ironic that revives lost their monetary value and then soon enough after became largely meaningless, frankly if we reverted back i'm not sure it would matter much nowadays. though i guess it could still trick really new solo players, so best not to all the same. 

And the game was a lot less popular then it is now. See the problem? Why go back to something that was worse? Why should DE go back to something that less players wanted to play?

[onlyjokes]

What your saying won't work because the game needs to fundamentally change to go with these changes honestly it just sounds like you want a third person view Destiny. These changes makes Warframe another game 

[Diangelius]

I can't understand some people's idea of disliking making enemies smarter. Both Grineer and Corpus have enough intelligence to create and engineer weaponry that can wipe out a whole planet but you guys just don't feel OK with them adapting new tactics or something ??

Anyway, I like OP's ideas.

[844448]

Wow, just putting some buffs here makes me accused wanting to change warframe to destiny. Calm down, people, I'm just putting slight improvement here, not an outright complete game rework

If that's what I want it would be this thread I made

 

 

[Cubewano]

Just now, kuciol said:

And the game was a lot less popular then it is now. See the problem? Why go back to something that was worse? Why should DE go back to something that less players wanted to play?

How do you figure those are related? The game was much younger then, with less content, and less funding, in turn less advertising, and less publicity, it was a game still largely getting on its feet as a result of a rushed release, it's kind of expected it'd have less of an audience given circumstances. 

[stormy505]

17 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

You'd have to run much slower, as you certainly weren't killing everything the instant they appeared in large aoes. And towards higher levels you'd be fibbing, back then Rhinos armor didn't even have a scaling mechanic, it just gave flat armor, and it definitely could fail out after points, and without an iframe operator to pick you up or a nuke to clean the room so you were safe when you got back on your feet, well modded or not. Its part of why CC was so prized back then, we actually needed panic buttons at the time to save us if we got overwhelmed, now that's not so much a thing anymore, we're incredibly safe and incredibly unthreatened. It's kind of ironic that revives lost their monetary value and then soon enough after became largely meaningless, frankly if we reverted back i'm not sure it would matter much nowadays. though i guess it could still trick really new solo players, so best not to all the same. 

Missions we're slower cause we didn't have bullet jumping and we had a stamina system (ew.) Cc was prized cause one of the few 'endgames' in the game was raids. Where killing the enemies was pointless and running three to four mirages was meta.

For anyone who thinks we have a lack of content I implore you to just think about how little there was to do in the game a few years ago.

[Cubewano]

5 minutes ago, stormy505 said:

Missions we're slower cause we didn't have bullet jumping and we had a stamina system (ew.) Cc was prized cause one of the few 'endgames' in the game was raids. Where killing the enemies was pointless and running three to four mirages was meta.

For anyone who thinks we have a lack of content I implore you to just think about how little there was to do in the game a few years ago.

Frankly I can't remember stamina ever being an issue, but it could have sure, we also didn't kill enemies as quickly either however and definitely to the level of aoe we do now which similarly contributed. We didn't scrub rooms in a shot like we do today. And I was actually talking about before even raids were a thing, CC was prized for a long long time before now. 

Edited August 11, 2019 by Cubewano