warframe is an easy game to quit

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

i did not want to name this thread "why i quit warframe" so i don't sound like a gaming youtuber posting a quitting video for the third time 

i'm mainly here to discuss my experience and my current feelings towards the game, i'm not going to rant or anything like that, although some negative aspects about the game will be addressed.

so i used to be more than a casual player in the game...i used to play it almost everyday...was usually very excited with every upcoming free new content that drops every few months sometimes years...i love roleplaying and i love high mobility running and gunning and it seemed like warframe was perfectly tailored for me.

with hundreds of weapons and couple dozen warframes in my arsenal, and thousand mods to manipulate this arsenal...the versatility looked unimaginable, and the fantasy looked like it'll never end.

but well...that was an unintended lie! 

you see, i discovered that the more i play this game, the more i feel like it's lying to me...until i couldn't keep up and i just stopped.

let me elaborate; 

warframe is the only game i played that made me ask myself what am i really looking for when playing a game..

what's content and what's endgame for me, what makes me have fun and want more.

it wasn't clear until i played another free to play fast paced game, i realized...warframe doesn't really have much to offer, the game lacks so much and it's simply not rewarding anymore...after i played this other game for a while i've managed to find significant differences between both experiences, mainly these topics below:

a high chance that i might loose, something warframe definitely doesn't have...each mission in warframe is like a walk in a park casually killing everything with a simple muscle memory...no brain cells were used...no strategic planning, nothing...just my pure muscle memory killing everything and finishing the mission before i try, the other game i am currently playing made loosing a mission part of the game...and you will loose...it's a good thing to have a game that satisfies your imagination, but it's even better when that game challenges it.

something to do, some people might not realize it, some will not admit it, but the sad truth is...all we ever do in warframe is killing the indistinct trash mobs, everything we do, every mission, every weapon we craft or the way we level it up we do it for or by killing trash mobs...even what many presume as endgame is nothing more that an endless cycle of killing the same trash over and over again...the game i currently play has trash mobs(trash mobs with the smartest most annoying AI ever that can group up to gun me down, or actually grap me and execute a finisher on me) but they're not the focus of the game they're merely here to slow you down and make things difficult for you...they're not why you play the game...in warframe we play to kill adds.

"when everyone's super, no one will be", in warframe everyone can one shot, everyone can strip armor, wipe out hordes of enemies, everyone has extreme mobility and power creep to the ultimate extent...you don't feel like you're adding any support to your team...that is if you even need a team, that "versatility" i talked about earlier...doesn't really exist, it's a lie...you either build a weapon towards status or towards crit...you unlock god mode in warframe before you even realize it.

the difference between being difficult and being tedious, there's no difficulty in warframe...it's just tedious tasks...that's why i've stopped caring about nightwave after season 1...i've completely finished season 1 and after wasting hours doing these tedious mission x times...i didn't feel that great, i didn't feel accomplished, the first thing i thought of after i finished was "ugh, finally", there was nothing for me in the new infested themed one, on the other hand the other game can shift it's difficulty based on how often i win or loose, and you really feel that difficulty(sometimes a bit too much)while i have to admit that increase in difficulty doesn't drastically increases your rewards ratio...but it increases your mission score which in turn increases the rewards you'll get in this mission 

 

endgoal, not necessarily endgame but something you look forward to when you play the game, in warframe i kept lying to myself making my perfect build with my favorite weapon and warframe...trying to think that i'm preparing myself for some epic gamer moment, but that day never came...so i went back on lua exterminate hopelessly farming forma, while now on the other game...you play to get better to get and craft weapons and make them function more efficiently, and get better cards so you can try to beat that game's difficulty while also getting bombarded with relatively good rewards...at the end you might reach the max level of that game...but you'll still have a chance to loose no matter how strong you get...which makes it more fun to experiment and play more.

 

i just logged in to warframe to test a movement issue with my controller, and was surprised to see my clan misses me...i miss them too, one of the good thing in this game is the bond you get to have with your clan, but i just can't tolerate this game any longer.

 

these are some of the differences...i think warframe is a great game...but it's not really a full game

 

i won't say the name of the other game i'm playing in respect of the forum i'm in, and also because i don't want to spark some ranting energy that might show up after i post this, although i'm certain that some of you might already recognize the game from what i've described so far 

tell me what do you think about these points? do you feel the same? or i'm just trying to compare warframe to something it's not?

 

 

[MechaEmperor7000]

Before the inevitable "Good riddance" and "don't let the door hit you on the way out" guys come in, I wanna say I do agree with you. The increasing frustration I have with Warframe now is that there is absolutely no challenge to the game. The game somehow thinks "Length = Difficulty" and so just puts increasingly longer and longer mission requirements, then throws on some scaling for a veneer of "Challenge". Facing off against a level 200 Bombard has no challenge; either I kill him with my weapons after looking at him for a set amount of time, or he turns me into a flying ragdoll in two seconds. lasting 20-30 minutes in a survival is only a challenge in how much I can keep my eyes open (I have quite literally fallen asleep several times doing these missions and somehow still come out on top. I've mastered the game to the point that I can play it with maybe like three keystrokes now). Same goes for the bosses; they tend to have one really interesting game loop, which is then copy-pasted three to four times per boss. Given that most bosses drop things in a RNG matter, this gets extremely boring after a while since even a mere 4 runs at a boss means I'll have done this same loop over 15 times. And don't even get me started on the mission types that are just clones of each other.

Repetition seems to be the major issue with this game right now, as it demands the player to literally come back every single day and it seems afraid to even go one week without an event, even if said event has to be something we've already done a hundred times. A candy bar once a day is a treat. A candy bar for every meal and snack you take will make you sick. The de-incentivization of people leaving for even a few weeks seems to be what's causing the fatigue.

Last year when Fortuna dropped, me and my friends played the Vay Hek out of it. Then we decided to just take a break for a month or two. When we came back, Mesa Prime became a thing. Warframe got fun again. Then after we had Mesa and had some fun, we left again. But with nightwave keeping us glued to the challenges, more than one of our friends (actually a whole clan) just up and decided to drop the game. Especially those that ran the entire gauntlet of Nightwave only to encounter something they couldn't do (most notably the 60 minute friendship challenges from before), which just completely gutted their interest in the game altogether.

I'd say how to fix this, but many, many people on this forum and on reddit have already articulated it. As for us, after Rank 30 we're gonna take a break again, cuz many of us are really, really burnt out on warframe at this point. And I recommend all others being frustrated with the system do so as well. It's better for your health, and also better for the game's health too (A returning player is still a player. A leaving player is no longer a player).

[Vit0Corleone]

If I may ask, for how long have you been playing that other game?

Are you sure you aren't eventually going to reach the same point where you are at in Warframe currently?

The things you mention aren't necessarily hard to find in games, what's rare (I don't know of any tbh) is games that can do that sustained, for years.

The loop challenge<>reward isn't easy to sustain. 

Edited August 12, 2019 by Vit0Corleone

[-CdG-Zilchy]

I wanna know what the other game is. 

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

The only thing that bothers me about Warframe, is that: how does this mess has sustained for years, when it literally doesn't want you to play it.

What do i mean by stating that? Man, look at all those "wait for X hours" things in the game, it's basically a "play something else" propaganda. 

It's bad game design at it's finest, everyone complains about this kind of thing in mobile games, but here? NO

[Awazx]

hey! But we have new weapons and skins every week!

 

 

 

[Thrymm]

I've been around a long time, and in that time I've taken a few breaks, sometimes even months long.

And overall, I'd say you're right.  This is a mindless, repetitive trash killer, and that makes it really easy to walk away.

It also makes it really easy to come back.  Sometimes I'm between games, sometimes I'm not even looking for another one and I just want a little mindless fun.  Over the years of playing and then stopping for awhile to do other things, then playing again, I've actually come to appreciate a few things.

1.  I don't want something to do.  I'm already doing it when I log in.  I'm killing time, and I don't particularly want some taxing task to underpin the whole thing.  As an example, I've been playing some Vermintide 2 lately, another horde killer with "missions" that are heavily underpinned with story and significantly more challenge possible through its hordes.  I like it well enough, but frankly I'm not going to be playing it long, it's going to get old because I don't necessarily want to tax myself with things to do in my horde slaughtering exploits.  I don't really even have to pretend that's the case here.

2.  I'm not so sure I genuinely want a challenge.  I hate the big boss, forced grouping garbage encounters.  They're contrived, scripted nonsense and I burned myself permanently on that in WoW.  While I'd love to see some smarter AI that made enemies more interesting, I still want to kill them by the hundreds and thousands, so I just don't want them too tough.  I mean, I keep coming back, and have for years, knowing full well that I'm not going to be challenged by daily gameplay, and I'm not real interested in suddenly failing half my missions or being forced to group them just to survive.

3.  In some things, I just don't have better ideas.  I love balance, and I love variety.  They can go hand in hand, but it's an extremely difficult tightrope to walk.  That means any frame I use needs to be powerful and tough, any weapon I use needs to kill enemies as well as any other.  Anything that can't meet that bar gets shelved, even if it could have been interesting.  The reason for this is above in number 2---I'm not going to use stuff that makes me fail missions and frankly, it'd have to be extraordinarily interesting and fun to use to even slow me down significantly.  As such, I don't know how to break free of the cookie cutter mechanics of status and crit, etc.  I do know that I disagree with the notion of using immunity phases and such rot to do so.  We shouldn't have it if our opponents have to be immune to it to be playable content, in my opinion.

But the way some of this ties together, I do indeed agree with you.  Powercreep has crippled any semblance of real endgame or endgoals or anything like that.  We've entirely circumvented the damage vs. health mechanic at this point, the armor scaling mechanic is fundamentally broken, and these same powercreeps have rendered lower level play to easy while upper level play is so stratospheric as to only be reached with time expenditures that aren't even a game anymore.

So in the end, I play the game for what it is.  I log in, I kill a bunch of things, I do it in ways and combinations that I want, and when I'm done I log out.  Occasionally I offer feedback here in posts that I think might wind up being feedback that makes my desire to be logged in last longer, not necessarily drastically different.  The game has become a steadfast part of my library with this approach, whereas if I where searching for a daily one and only I'd drop it, uninstall and never look back because it's so far from filling that role that I don't think it should even be making attempts that direction anymore.

[ikkabotz]

It's not that I don't appreciate your post. It's just that I'm so jaded with this issue as it has been reported so many times longwithstanding with no change in sight over. And over. And over.  I've been "woke" to the trash mob brainless format of Warframe for seriously around three years or so HOPING for it to get back on track to something more enjoyable. 

Edited August 12, 2019 by ikkabotz

[LascarCapable]

DE tried to "balance" their game multiple times in the past to address the points mentionned in the OP, but all of these balancing attempts were usually met with extreme anger from the community, sometime to the point of death threats being sent. I also would like to get a much more fair game with a decent amount of challenge, but when balance changes other than buffing are met with so much hostility, it's hard to pull out anything fair. Those kind of reactions had an extremely negative impact on the game, leading to our current "endgame" related issues :

• Lack of challenge.
• Lack of fair challenges, when there's some (which usually leads to cheese strategies).
• Requirement of having massive damage reduction powers or other ways to effectively ignore damage to play high level content, due to the whole "one shot or be one shotted" sutiation that is high level mission.
• Armor scaling issues.
• Massive powercreep.
• Abusive nuking.

There might be more to that list, but it's all the problems that strike my eyes for now.

We're already in too deep to create some massive changes in the Warframe balance. Massive nerfs would create a gigantic outcry with maybe a mass desertion of the game. But setting up balance changes little by little could be soft enough for the community to allow them to get used to it. Armor scaling and abusive nuking rebalancing could come first. Then the enemy damage and DR mechanics could get a look at. There's a lot that could be done to create a more fair challenge while rebalacing the game to a more healthy state, without making stuff less fun.

[Awazx]

il y a 36 minutes, D20 a dit :

DE tried to "balance" their game multiple times in the past to address the points mentionned in the OP, but all of these balancing attempts were usually met with extreme anger from the community, sometime to the point of death threats being sent.

Let's see if I understood correctly: are you saying that [DE] can't balance his game because of fear of his community?

[Klokwerkaos]

i took an 8 month break.

the gameplay is as tedious and unrewarding as ever.  

i don't disagree with your points at all, but instead will say the same thing i keep saying:

de needs to create locked off endgame aspirational content.

this content needs to provide enemies with new answers to one man army warframes, one of the reasons team play doesn"t matter except to increase the number of loot pinatas is because everyone is invincible.

by having enemies that post a threat, giving them ways to deal with us and answer our power is key.

the problems with implementing this are: 
-de is allergic to pleasing vets
-this would require making content locked off, and they want everyone to hug at all times

-this would require making a challenge and sticking with it rather than nerfing it into the ground for the undergeared who will throw endless tantrums 

until this happens, which it may not ever in the life cycle of warframe, expect the game to be tedious and samey.

i would recommend you look to some other nice f2p games like path of exile, city of heroes, and of course, mod your fallout 4 until your settlement builds make your machine implode.

by cycling out other games as you did, you'll see that while they shine in areas warframe doesn't, in time you'll recognize their flaws too, and eventually cycle back around and hopefully by then you'll at least have something to look foward to doing for about three days after many updates have passed.

my major difference between before and now, is that i have vowed not to offer any financial support to warframe until they fix the things i've mentioned.  i just won't do it anymore even though i used to support them even though i didn"t need to (ie didn"t really want or need anything in the game).  i supported them before, but until they give me appropriate content i want to pay for, no more money from me.  it actually is very liberating to have that stance.
 

Edited August 12, 2019 by Klokwerkaos

[ShadowStalker]

is the other game path of exile?

[Ultimatesoup]

Completely agree with OP's points.

IMO, the reason why the game is so badly designed for Vets is because most of the current and future game is short-term content, once you're done with it, you probably won't have access or don't want to come back to it because you have no reason to. Also, to counterbalance the fact that, beyond a certain power level, the game becomes extremely easy, DE relies on tedious grinding or boring and unfunny mechanics like invulnerabilities, disables or bullet sponges. 

DE is probably never going to create an endgame for the vets, despite what the say, simply because most of the vets realise what OP realised after hours of grinding. Yeah, the game is awesome at first, but then you discover that the game is just nothing more than a massive grindfest with no difficulty whatsoever, it's just pointlessly time consuming.

These last years, we got Fortuna, The Sacrifice and Nightwave, which are overall very disappointing : PoE 2, years of waiting for a 2 hours quest that ends on a cliffhanger and that gives a copy-pasta Warframe that was already available for years in China and some swords, and Grindwave that gives you the rewards you used to get in 5 minutes except that you need to grind the hell out of outdated and irrelevant content.

To me, this does not look like the content you'd give to someone that has almost done everything in the game.

[Somi_xD]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb (XB1)XG1anBl4derX:

The only thing that bothers me about Warframe, is that: how does this mess has sustained for years, when it literally doesn't want you to play it.

What do i mean by stating that? Man, look at all those "wait for X hours" things in the game, it's basically a "play something else" propaganda. 

It's bad game design at it's finest, everyone complains about this kind of thing in mobile games, but here? NO

Exactly - those Mobile Game Elements are here in Warframe from the beginning.
It was designed this way to get the money in, since DE didn't knew if Warframe will break through or not.
But the problem now is - that the entire game is build upon this, bad sturcture.
Compare it to a Skyscraper with a foundation from 100 years ago - how do you wanna fix the foundation?

Edited August 12, 2019 by Somi_xD

[Somi_xD]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Awazx:

Let's see if I understood correctly: are you saying that [DE] can't balance his game because of fear of his community?

Oh yes ... this community has such a toxic part - this toxic part of the community would shred everything that gets into their comfort, even the Devs themselves.
You need to remember that the sane part of humanity is a minority.

Edited August 12, 2019 by Somi_xD

[Steel_Rook]

12 hours ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

a high chance that i might loose,

I'm not going to pretend to understand that desire, but I can respect it. However, I'm the complete opposite way. I much prefer easy games, and have spent decades playing on Easy and Normal. Warframe's difficulty is about where it needs to be as far as I'm concerned. What issues it has is rather with the vast gulf of performance between ordinary builds and min/maxed builds. I'd personally like to see performance normalised to a great extent, but not at the expense of making the median difficulty much harder, if harder at all. Not all of us are in the business of playing games like sports.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

I jump between Stellaris, Elite Dangerous, and on Wednesday I'll be checking out No Man's Sky Beyond... I dabble in Monster Hunter World but not as much I as I should...But I come back to Warframe for my Spy Missions and occasional region chat insanity...

[(PSN)BenHeisennberg]

6 hours ago, D20 said:

DE tried to "balance" their game multiple times in the past to address the points mentionned in the OP, but all of these balancing attempts were usually met with extreme anger from the community, sometime to the point of death threats being sent. I also would like to get a much more fair game with a decent amount of challenge, but when balance changes other than buffing are met with so much hostility, it's hard to pull out anything fair.

Agreed with OP, but this is an excellent point.  Everything tough and every nerf inevitably gets complained about.

I like to fight the Profit Taker with frames other than Chroma.  Other people say that what I'm doing is "unviable" (when I'm very clearly able to do it fairly well), and even people using Chroma complain that they have to read her telegraphing and control the mobs. 

If Chroma didn't exist, there would be two types of comments about the Profit Taker:  "finally, something that takes brain cells in this game," and "nothing is viable for this fight."  The viability argument, of course, coming from people who are used to the entire game being a cakewalk.  Hell, I've had someone tell me that someone else's videos showing other Warframes in the fight don't count because "they used survivability mods."

If this is the community's response to fighting a current boss with something that doesn't cheese it like Chroma, we will never get content that can't be blissfully strolled through.

[ikkabotz]

Two things I'd like to add reading some comments here in the thread.

1) Break away from assuming better gameplay is only for veterans. 

2) Better combat doesn't necessarily mean more difficulty is the caveat to imrpove the combat from.

[iiTzTrauma]

16 hours ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

i did not want to name this thread "why i quit warframe" so i don't sound like a gaming youtuber posting a quitting video for the third time 

i'm mainly here to discuss my experience and my current feelings towards the game, i'm not going to rant or anything like that, although some negative aspects about the game will be addressed.

so i used to be more than a casual player in the game...i used to play it almost everyday...was usually very excited with every upcoming free new content that drops every few months sometimes years...i love roleplaying and i love high mobility running and gunning and it seemed like warframe was perfectly tailored for me.

with hundreds of weapons and couple dozen warframes in my arsenal, and thousand mods to manipulate this arsenal...the versatility looked unimaginable, and the fantasy looked like it'll never end.

but well...that was an unintended lie! 

you see, i discovered that the more i play this game, the more i feel like it's lying to me...until i couldn't keep up and i just stopped.

let me elaborate; 

warframe is the only game i played that made me ask myself what am i really looking for when playing a game..

what's content and what's endgame for me, what makes me have fun and want more.

it wasn't clear until i played another free to play fast paced game, i realized...warframe doesn't really have much to offer, the game lacks so much and it's simply not rewarding anymore...after i played this other game for a while i've managed to find significant differences between both experiences, mainly these topics below:

a high chance that i might loose, something warframe definitely doesn't have...each mission in warframe is like a walk in a park casually killing everything with a simple muscle memory...no brain cells were used...no strategic planning, nothing...just my pure muscle memory killing everything and finishing the mission before i try, the other game i am currently playing made loosing a mission part of the game...and you will loose...it's a good thing to have a game that satisfies your imagination, but it's even better when that game challenges it.

something to do, some people might not realize it, some will not admit it, but the sad truth is...all we ever do in warframe is killing the indistinct trash mobs, everything we do, every mission, every weapon we craft or the way we level it up we do it for or by killing trash mobs...even what many presume as endgame is nothing more that an endless cycle of killing the same trash over and over again...the game i currently play has trash mobs(trash mobs with the smartest most annoying AI ever that can group up to gun me down, or actually grap me and execute a finisher on me) but they're not the focus of the game they're merely here to slow you down and make things difficult for you...they're not why you play the game...in warframe we play to kill adds.

"when everyone's super, no one will be", in warframe everyone can one shot, everyone can strip armor, wipe out hordes of enemies, everyone has extreme mobility and power creep to the ultimate extent...you don't feel like you're adding any support to your team...that is if you even need a team, that "versatility" i talked about earlier...doesn't really exist, it's a lie...you either build a weapon towards status or towards crit...you unlock god mode in warframe before you even realize it.

the difference between being difficult and being tedious, there's no difficulty in warframe...it's just tedious tasks...that's why i've stopped caring about nightwave after season 1...i've completely finished season 1 and after wasting hours doing these tedious mission x times...i didn't feel that great, i didn't feel accomplished, the first thing i thought of after i finished was "ugh, finally", there was nothing for me in the new infested themed one, on the other hand the other game can shift it's difficulty based on how often i win or loose, and you really feel that difficulty(sometimes a bit too much)while i have to admit that increase in difficulty doesn't drastically increases your rewards ratio...but it increases your mission score which in turn increases the rewards you'll get in this mission 

 

endgoal, not necessarily endgame but something you look forward to when you play the game, in warframe i kept lying to myself making my perfect build with my favorite weapon and warframe...trying to think that i'm preparing myself for some epic gamer moment, but that day never came...so i went back on lua exterminate hopelessly farming forma, while now on the other game...you play to get better to get and craft weapons and make them function more efficiently, and get better cards so you can try to beat that game's difficulty while also getting bombarded with relatively good rewards...at the end you might reach the max level of that game...but you'll still have a chance to loose no matter how strong you get...which makes it more fun to experiment and play more.

 

i just logged in to warframe to test a movement issue with my controller, and was surprised to see my clan misses me...i miss them too, one of the good thing in this game is the bond you get to have with your clan, but i just can't tolerate this game any longer.

 

these are some of the differences...i think warframe is a great game...but it's not really a full game

 

i won't say the name of the other game i'm playing in respect of the forum i'm in, and also because i don't want to spark some ranting energy that might show up after i post this, although i'm certain that some of you might already recognize the game from what i've described so far 

tell me what do you think about these points? do you feel the same? or i'm just trying to compare warframe to something it's not?

 

 

I wish PVP was a fun thing to go to and also you have to give it to destiny for their Raids and boss battles which instead of getting on the hate train we could all see the Pros that other games have. I played halo 3 Professionally, I had the same map, same gun, same team (sometimes) with no storyline and I never got bored Not for # years Everyday all day. 

[(PSN)wildcats1369my]

you can view wf as an mmo arcade game. most of the modes are endless where you just go for the highest score. 

but sadly most extract at the earlieast possible moment. 

[Ultimatesoup]

Il y a 4 heures, (PS4)BenHeisennberg a dit :

Agreed with OP, but this is an excellent point.  Everything tough and every nerf inevitably gets complained about.

I like to fight the Profit Taker with frames other than Chroma.  Other people say that what I'm doing is "unviable" (when I'm very clearly able to do it fairly well), and even people using Chroma complain that they have to read her telegraphing and control the mobs. 

If Chroma didn't exist, there would be two types of comments about the Profit Taker:  "finally, something that takes brain cells in this game," and "nothing is viable for this fight."  The viability argument, of course, coming from people who are used to the entire game being a cakewalk.  Hell, I've had someone tell me that someone else's videos showing other Warframes in the fight don't count because "they used survivability mods."

If this is the community's response to fighting a current boss with something that doesn't cheese it like Chroma, we will never get content that can't be blissfully strolled through.

Frankly, the "Whatever DE does, the community is going to complain about anyway" is on the same level as "If you're not happy, you can quit". 

Do people want good content? Yes

Would people complain about good content? No

Therefore there is no reason that people would complain if these "balance attempts" were good. Claiming that "Whatever DE does, the community is going to complain about anyway" is basically admitting that the proposed content was good and that the community refuses good content, which is dumb.

Most of the content that gets reworked, balanced, either stays in the same poor state or ends up being garbage and forgotten. 

 

[Vit0Corleone]

59 minutes ago, Ultimatesoup said:

Would people complain about good content? No

What's good content for some, is trash for others.

I'm yet to see something that pleases everyone. That simply doesn't exist, so the assumption that no one would complaint isn't realistic IMHO.

[Test-995]

If community is going to complain anyways, DE can do whatever they want because it gets complained either way.

At this point it's their choice, or is it?

[(PSN)Apoleon_amarr]

Joke is on you, i cant quit because im addicted.

Check mate fam