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Spharin

Vulkar & Meticulous Aim

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Posted (edited)

Do you guys think it's really worth it to use this mod? It adds so much more headshot damage (at the cost of bodyshot damage) which does give a massive damage buff per hit.

I've been using Vulkar lately in the past weeks since I want to have fun aiming at things in basic missions and getting top damage from overkill, and my loadout consists of the basic mods for cc/cd and damage, a riven, the Lasting Purity augment, and Harkonar Scope (in the empty space) rather than a 60/60 or 90 elemental mod.

Lasting Purity is a pretty beefy mod for the Vulkar to increase damage, I don't think I would want to get rid of that for Meticulous Aim, even though I'm sure Meticulous Aim would do more damage per headshot if only one mod was equipped at a time. I could replace Harkanor Scope with Meticulous Aim, but that would make my combo decay a lot faster (every 2? seconds rather than 8+) and the Combo raises damage up pretty well, although it is fairly easy to get a 2.0x or 2.5x damage multiplier, yet with Harkonar Scope it is far easier to withhold a 2.5x or 3x combo multiplier rather than decaying back down occasionally with a bit of wait.

As far as I know and don't completely understand, Harkonar Scope has some weird interactions with zooming in and out as combo decays, extending the current hit count for extra time despite only holding scope/aim in for a moment.

Do you guys think Meticulous Aim is just a complete gag mod? Would it ever be worth running over other mods?

(If anyone was wondering I also run Gas damage since my riven is stuck with Heat unless I wanted to run a 2nd elemental mod, but with hitting headshots consistently, even with my -status duration, Gas damage still does a single tick of toxin on enemies and with the large damage per headshot it can occasionally kill enemies in an AoE with a single shot as a joke build)

Just a last edit, this is not a discussion between using different snipers and how bad a "headshot sniper" is, I am making this post to talk about the Vulkar specifically.

Edited by Spharin
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Posted (edited)

I wouldnt use it personally. Hesd hitboxes change so often between enemies. Some are their whole bodies, some are the small front part of this floating ball, some have none, etc. Sometimes they move around way too much as well.

With the zoom requirement for max headshot multi on the vulkar it makes it even worse. Target aquired is already solid with 60% and doesnt ruin you damage against enemies who might end up moving their head around a lot or get CCd

This is only assuming all the headshot multies from the mods and zoom multiply off eachother. If they are all additive I really dont think itll be as worth it.

Edited by Annnoth
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Vulkar always struck me as more of a single-target-pick-them-off-one-by-one weapon so I'm looking forward to seeing what kinds of builds I can make with it for the Plains and the Vallis.

This probably isn't going to be used for much of the gamemodes, but I believe it doesn't have to be.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Annnoth said:

I wouldnt use it personally. Hesd hitboxes change so often between enemies. Some are their whole bodies, some are the small front part of this floating ball, some have none, etc. Sometimes they move around way too much as well.

With the zoom requirement for max headshot multi on the vulkar it makes it even worse. Target aquired is already solid with 60% and doesnt ruin you damage against enemies who might end up moving their head around a lot or get CCd

This is only assuming all the headshot multies from the mods and zoom multiply off eachother. If they are all additive I really dont think itll be as worth it.

If you wouldn't want to be hitting headshots, then you shouldn't be using the Vulkar to begin with, also I have no idea how the +headshot damage gets added and I don't want to put my own effort in testing and doing any sort of math.

EDIT: sorry that's a little toxic, I don't know how bodyshots from the Vulkar Wraith would compare to other crit-based snipers with any choice of zoom on them, assuming any hit from any sniper is a crit.

On my abysmal loadout I have currently, a single headshot on max zoom without the mod was doing ~115k damage, and with the Meticulous Aim mod at rank 4 (+87% Headshot damage) it was doing around ~180k damage. I need to forma my Vulkar Wraith again to fit it at max rank, or derank another mod.

Edited by Spharin
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no unless you are some csgo god. Even then most mobs die during the time it takes to aim. (Run with Harrow if you are a csgo god, you will out ev trinity).

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Posted (edited)

My rank 4 Meticulous Aim, replacing Lasting Purity deals a lot less damage per headshot, so I imagine if you're choosing one or the other, they probably add around the same amount of damage, yet one reduces bodyshot damage and the other basically increases it.

I don't know if using it Max rank would make it go over Lasting Purity, if it does I don't imagine it'd be by that much. I'd say run both mods or only run Lasting Purity.

..or run Target Acquired instead of Meticulous Aim...

Edited by Spharin

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1 hour ago, Spharin said:

-snip-

Using the words of a wise gnome from anouter dimension: "if it's stupid but it works, then it ain't stupid" 

As long as it's a fun play style for you... Go for it. 

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Best situation you can use this mod is when Camping in a Grineer survival mission, Or when you are doing a riven challenge that requires you to headshot some damn enemies in 100 meters.

I once used Snipetron Vandal on Ophelia - Uranus, no potato, only Serration and 2 elemental mods and yet I got top damage of the whole team due to a number of headshots.

People used to camp a lot, but since DE removed the "spin2win through walls", the need to camp seems to disappear, I think that's why.

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Only with Balloon Frame that has a 4 that can temporarily inflate enemy heads to monstrous proportions.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Spharin said:

If you wouldn't want to be hitting headshots, then you shouldn't be using the Vulkar to begin with, also I have no idea how the +headshot damage gets added and I don't want to put my own effort in testing and doing any sort of math.

EDIT: sorry that's a little toxic, I don't know how bodyshots from the Vulkar Wraith would compare to other crit-based snipers with any choice of zoom on them, assuming any hit from any sniper is a crit.

On my abysmal loadout I have currently, a single headshot on max zoom without the mod was doing ~115k damage, and with the Meticulous Aim mod at rank 4 (+87% Headshot damage) it was doing around ~180k damage. I need to forma my Vulkar Wraith again to fit it at max rank, or derank another mod.

I didnt take any offense. I was saying that theres some instances where hitting the head is a huge effort and arguably out of your control because enemies can turn on a dime, get CCd, and you have high zoom. Say a wisp comes in and everyone is suddenly shocked the moment you look at them or uses her blind, their head moves or is blocked by their hands (I think thats the case, I havent tested things myself).

Chargers heads are so low and feel a bit finicky to hit. Granted they die super quick no matter what. Hyenas in vallis move around a ton and are fairly low on the ground. A number of enemies weak spots arent even counted as heads it seems. Bursa, lephantis, juggernaut. The only one I remember being headshot viable for argon scope is suprisingly thumpers.

Then you have instances with things like gas vulkar builds where you arent always 1 shotting everything but doing high damage to crowds. I have 0 impact on my gun bevause of a riven but they still stagger on nearly every shot so if I end up hitting the head and its not an instant kill on an armored target theyll just get staggered and i have to wait for another opening.

Id rather just get a headshot and a few body shots because chances are that headshot massively weakened them anyways. Its not like the vulkar needs that mod, I dont even use target aquired and Im still murdering everything.  My riven has S#&$ all for bonus damage btw, its just a meme mod for negative impact. Ammo max and fire rate lmao.

I think if you wany to test yourself theres a higher payout and some potential QoL as you wont need a higher level of zoom to do equivalent damage, but it feels a bit redundant to me. It should just be for all snipers since vulkar already has a headshot multi stat and 1 augment that kind of does the same by being a multiplicative modifier.

 

Edited by Annnoth

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If it weren't for that -45% body damage part this mod alone could've maybe brought Vulkar into meta use at tridolons.
Should be +45% body damage instead.

Maybe.

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The mod is not worth it unless you're using harrow or can actually just headshot with every single shot every time because you're that good, but that's impossible because some things have tiny headshot areas or are facing away from you.  Chances are also quite high that if you headshot with any decently modded sniper rifle in warframe that the target is deader then dead without this mod.  No clue why they made this when lasting purity exists for vulkar already/the vulkar wraith is already tight as hell space wise.  

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probably a pass for me, maybe if Mag's Magnetize bubble made all shots headshots I would consider it. sadly my sniping proficiency, even though the Vulkar is a very forgiving rifle with semi-auto, fast follow-up shots, isn't that good. as others have said, most builds will have Lasting Purity on there instead, and the rest are damage and Crit mods that are essential for making Snipers relevant.

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I mean.... there are some enemies that don't even have Heads...

Definitely a gag mod....

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Seems like the most meh of the 3 mods and a pretty bad mod in general imo.

Not only does it rely on headshots and lowers damage to any other part of the body, but also in general the weapon suffers from a bad reload and a less than ideal crit chance

Just getting headshots at all (without the mod) should be good enough to kill enemies at reasonable levels.

Also there is the alternative mod which boosts the headshot multiplier (Target Acquired) and does not lower body damage in the process.

 

Note: I do not factor in rivens at all when looking at how a weapon performs

 

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Annnoth said:

I wouldnt use it personally. Hesd hitboxes change so often between enemies. Some are their whole bodies, some are the small front part of this floating ball, some have none, etc. Sometimes they move around way too much as well.

 

If this was most other shooters that had humanoid enemies who keep their heads in predictable locations, then yes.  But even for the humanoid enemies, the hitboxes seem wildly inconsistent. 

Grineer have "Giant Shoulder Armor," and even from the front it's hard to land a headshot since you often clip the armor instead.  Rollers don't have heads.  The mutant kavats and kubrow they use do have heads, but often move in odd janky ways that makes even *shooting* them kind of annoying.

Corpus humans have big giant helmets, but the Moas keep their heads down in front (like really, really short necked birds.)  I think at least three types of moa have shields covering their faces.  Osprey heads are easier to make out, but much harder to hit.  (I swear they're programmed to dodge the instant the player puts the crosshair over them.)  And that's all for the "old style" corpus.  And with the utter lunacy that is Amalgams, I'm not completely convinced some of the newer Corpus units even *HAVE* heads.

Infested are...  yeah, whatever passes for their anatomy is confusing as heck.  I know I often get headshots when fighting Chargers in melee, but can't do so intentionally with any ranged weapon.  Ancients seem to have heads, but only *part* of the bit that sticks out in front of them at the top seems to count.  The mutated Corpus ones do have the nice boxy Corpus helmets though.

Corrupted are a jumble of the other factions, with the bonus that they can get stacking bonuses from Corrupted Ancients *and* Corruputed Nullifiers.  Most of the actual units are based on the ones that have clearly defined heads though, and so far they don't include any of the standard Grineer with giant shoulderpads.  Probably the easiest faction to shoot in the head, and the one least likely to notice because Ancients are party poopers.

Sentient battle forms have very, very tiny faces.  Even smaller than Moas.  And until you've had a chance to look at them in the Codex or while invisible, it's really not obvious which bit of their alien anatomy is the face.  I'm pretty sure they're immune to headshots from behind, but I could be wrong about that.  Since most of them adapt to incoming damage, headshots are only good if they happen to be possible to completely one-shot.  (Don't know if they are or not, I never tried.)

The Vulkar mod seems like a random novelty mod to me.  I probably won't ever equip it.  For one thing I'd have to drop another mod to include it, probably making the weapon weaker overall.  For another, the game doesn't really favor "slow and sneaky and shoot all the skulls" style gameplay.  If you're teamed at all, enemies will be running around like crazy after either you or team mates.  Most enemies have slightly odd movement animations (and no inertia) which means they pivot on a dime and sometimes seem to rotate like an action figure on a base.  (I don't know the best way to describe it, but Grineer do it a lot.  They run leaning forward, and when they turn they're still leaning forward, so they seem to rotate around a point behind their hips.)  And finally, I personally am just not l33t enough to consistently headshot any enemies.  So I'd either be missing more often by trying to hit the much smaller collision box of the head (on enemies that have recognizable heads) and mostly doing way less damage when I shoot them anywhere else.

Edited by EmberStar

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24 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

Sentient battle forms have very, very tiny faces.

I legit never thought about that when writing my post because at no point since they were introduced have I EVER tried to headshot them cause I genuinely didn't know they even had a face until recently. They are so damn small it's hilarious.

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the first time i saw it my first and only thought was "intended usage: strictly the orb vallis". probably DE throwing it in to encourage more playtime there. don't be surprised if baro coincidentally brings vulkar v around this time.

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Replaced vital sense....added more damage due to riven already having crit damage.

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I use vulkar wraith as my Ivara and get great results. 

The one thing that I found hard was to produce enough energy to keep her in constant prowl for a full mission, but Sharpshooter changed all that. Now as I prowl around I can get a close as I need to and make every shot a head shot.

Maybe overkill but I now have a build that really rewards head shots so I make them count.

 

Serration - Split chamber - Vital sense - Point strike

Sharpshooter - Argon scope - Meticulous Aim - Hush

 

I have to use hush to keep hidden in prowl of course and I dont use lasting purity as I dont want to alert the enemy.

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On 2019-08-12 at 2:06 PM, nslay said:

Only with Balloon Frame that has a 4 that can temporarily inflate enemy heads to monstrous proportions.

Lulz, BobbleClem Warframe.

I see this as a similar issue with Harpak mod.  It simply takes too long to execute.

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On ‎2019‎-‎08‎-‎12 at 4:32 PM, Lutesque said:

I mean.... there are some enemies that don't even have Heads...

Definitely a gag mod....

I have found that every enemy in the game except for an Elite few all have heads that can be hit or aimed at.  Those heads just might not be located in the area that you would normally think of them to be.  Moas for example have heads right where the two legs join.  

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Good for stealth builds I suppose, could see some synergy with sharpshooter and hush for Ivara, 

But for general gameplay will likely not be a good combination. 

Possibly acceptable uses :

Vallis, poe, (maybe Tridolon) 

Ivara with hush, 

Harrow, 

Boss fights where bosses have heads. 

Bragging about doing entire mission with exclusive headshots. 

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Posted (edited)

Just use Target Acquired with no body shot penalty. It's relatively 22% worse than Meticulous Aim at head shots... but with no -45% body shot damage penalty!

IMO, Target Acquired > Meticulous Aim.

I guess Chroma can use these niche mods... take out Serration and slot Target Acquired/Meticulous Aim.

EDIT: Oh wait, both are additive with Vulkar's scope bonus already. So +60% or +105% are actually worse than advertised. Let's see:

No scope: As above (22% worse).

Grineer over there! zoom: +95% vs +140% ... 19% worse

Grineer drinking coffee zoom: +115% vs +160% ...17% worse

Teralyst nose hairs zoom: +130% vs + 175% ... 16% worse

Edited by nslay

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