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ZARIEL_THENOBLEONE

What is the worst frame in the game right now ?

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23 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Zephyr.... believe it or not.... isn't useless....I mean shes not The Swiss Army Knife of Warframe but she does benefit mission objectives better than Some frames can....

Genuinely curious, what niche would that be? Getting around the Corpus Gas City without any effort?

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1 minute ago, Morrow said:

Genuinely curious, what niche would that be? Getting around the Corpus Gas City without any effort?

Didn't mention any niches...

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10 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

Didn't mention any niches...

Well if you're gonna be like that...

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Am 12.8.2019 um 21:29 schrieb evilChair:

ember. i wasn't there when she got into the state she's in now, but if i get it right, she was murdered for being too strong too early on the star chart. an MR lock or a WoF rework instead of a killing nerf would've done just fine.

A small WoF rework is exactly what they did. More damage but less range over time. Ember was never good outside of low level missions and alright CC with the augment. Most people complaining about Ember are newer players who feel satisfied by afk nuking low level mission, they haven't played long enough yet to realize how boring this makes the game after some time. We had the same years ago with Saryn Miasma nerf and Mag's 2 rework.

Ember needs a rework like many other Warframes but reverting the nerf isn't the way.

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1 hour ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

I get the fashion frame part, but it sounds like you are forcing the rest. Typically I just use Loki for everything Nyx can do with very few exceptions.

Guilty as charged!

I guess my best description is that she’s solidly subpar. Not useless, by yeah there are better (and worse) options out there.

I just see the Nyx hate and I’m chillin here like “not my baby...”

I still think she’s more impactful on mission progress than say Hildryn or Atlas are. 

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6 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Its not a matter if others can do it, its a matter of how its done.

Yes, Archwing exists but she can fly faster than any of them tho Itzal does go further due to Blink.

Many frames can CC but very few of them can CC wile clusting enemies and boosting damage done to them at the same time.

Tanking? i dont remember Inaros, Rhino and Mesa completely negating projectiles to a whole area. Her Turbulence can easily protect a large area from any projectile attack, this also protects her teammates and mission objectives instead of just self as the examples you showed.

I would say Ember is actually the worst right now as her Skill barely deal damage after a certain level, they are all 100% fire based which gives her no flexibility and she is Squishy.

Nova is faster then her, volt is faster then her, all archwings will be getting something like blink in the near future.

her cc is inconsistent. If enemies form a circle around your tornado won't hit them all.

Not being able to deal with aoe and splash damage is a pretty big weakness for a tank frame. And to avoid melee attacks you need a forgiving tileset plus you can't defend the objective with turbulence if you're stuck to the ceiling.

I agree that she's not the worst frame in the game. But you're giving her too much credit.

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4 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

As i mentioned on my post, Ember`s attacks are 100% Heat and sadly it falls of quickly against certain enemies after a certain level, maybe the biggest issue is it doesnt stack like other DoT which is why i have suggested many times here on the Forum that [DE] made it stack instead of just renew the duration.

I have herd rumors tho that her 1st could deal over 40K with the right build and charging tho i have never seen any videos or builds for it.

Lmao that sounds pretty epic but if I had to take a guess it would probably involve flash accelerant+fireball frenzy+every imaginable strength mod+madurai maybe? http://warframe-builder.com/s/6f692ec0a8953eb8 << (definitely overboard). Possibly something like that but if it was made back in 2015 to end up looking something more like this >> http://warframe-builder.com/s/87b275b4b42a4411 this. You can obviously go insane with fireball and replace some mods to make it more "modernized"

The thing is though is the 40k is from the accelerant+charge+contact+blast+proc. So it's not like you're doing 40k out of the gate.

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15 minutes ago, stormy505 said:

Nova is faster then her, volt is faster then her, all archwings will be getting something like blink in the near future.

If you are talking about Sprint Speed Nova Prime and Zephyr Prime are tied in 1.2, Volt Prime has 1.0.
If you are talking about abilities, Nova's Wormhole with Escape Velocity gives her +50% for 7 Seconds, Zephyr's Turbulence with Jet Stream gives her 40% for 20 seconds and Volt's Speed gives him 50% for 10 Seconds. If you consider efficiency/duration, Zephyr can outrun both with Turbulence active. I built my Zephyr for Duration wile keeping the other Stats at 100%, that gives me 47 seconds of Turbulence.

Blink is not yet implemented on all Archwings and still you are trying to compare an accessory with a Frame, if thats the case i can just slap on Itzal on my Zephyr and she would still best in speed.

24 minutes ago, stormy505 said:

her cc is inconsistent. If enemies form a circle around your tornado won't hit them all.

I can cast Tornado where my crosshair is pointed, that means i can place them where the most enemies are and they will get sucked in, afterwards the tornados move around gathering more and continuously apply status effects. If me or my allies shoot the Tornados, all enemies caught in them take 100% of the damage and Critical damages even get a 200% damage bonus. Its not something that will clear out a room but sure is more than enough to help clear it out fast or keep enemies away from allies and defense objectives.

29 minutes ago, stormy505 said:

Not being able to deal with aoe and splash damage is a pretty big weakness for a tank frame. And to avoid melee attacks you need a forgiving tileset plus you can't defend the objective with turbulence if you're stuck to the ceiling.

Inaros, Rhino and Mesa take those too, difference is Inaros has a huge health pool to absorb the damage, Rhino takes it to his Rhino skin and Mesa takes reduced damage but isnt invulnerable. Turbulence may not grant invulerability but most AoE arent an issue either as Bombard, Napalms and Grenades get pushed away so its really hard to get hit by an AoE.
Melee is an Issue if you dont pay attention and dont know how to dodge.

32 minutes ago, stormy505 said:

I agree that she's not the worst frame in the game. But you're giving her too much credit.

Thats because i main her since she came out and know well how to play with her and what she is capable of. I am the one who is often running back and forth in missions saving teammates and taking care of what they cant.

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11 hours ago, IceColdHawk said:

Baruuk.

What even is his purpose? And why do his abilities feel so counterproductive?

I literally thought I was the only one who thinks this way. 

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On 2019-08-12 at 2:11 PM, ZARIEL_THENOBLEONE said:

1- Mesa’s shatter shield does practically the same thing as her 3  but better cuz it’s blocks all enemy attacks not just most enemy attacks.

Mesa's SS is 95% damage reduction. That's with intensify on. She only has a chance to deflect enemy projectiles. You still take damage on direct projectile hits that she does not deflect. 

Zephyr on the other hand, deflects almost all projectiles with range build.

If you ask me, Not getting hit by enemies is the best way to stay alive in this game.

And if anyone say "melee can still hurt you..", you may wanna rethink how you play the game altogether.

On 2019-08-12 at 3:53 PM, ZARIEL_THENOBLEONE said:

No I  mean she’s not bad for better tanks existing, just there is literally nothing she can do that another frame cannot do better 

Zephyr deflects almost all projectiles and not take damage while turbulence is on. What other warframe can do that with a better efficiency?

 

IMO, best and worst warframes are irrelevant. It really comes down to how you play the game and how you adapt to the situation you're currently in. If you don't pay attention, you'll fail. You get cocky, you'll fail. If you come up underprepared, you'll definitely fail. It's all just a matter of convenience and preferences. Whatever works for you, doesn't make it work for every one.

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Ember, Zephyr, nyx, titania and Valkyr imo. (Now while they can be usefull, (especially as a valkyr main i hate to put her there) but atm i think theese frames are either in a bad spot or just relies on 1 ability only.)

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Vauban.  Since, as said many times, he's all CC, has redundant CC abilities, and nothing else.  Granted, the Tesla traps can be fun and I killed a Stalker with a carpet of them once, but they're kinda useless outside low level otherwise.


Ember's a damage frame gone wrong, but she at least has options to build for CC/Support to boost ally damage while doing a little bit of lockdown.  Still needs a lot of work.


Zephyr... does need work, but I don't think she's among the worst.  As a Zephyr main, I feel her biggest issues are the passive (pain in the butt in a lot of cases even after so many hours on her), her 1 getting stuck on walls and stuff which makes it nearly useless for interior travel, her 1 scaling with duration rather than range which makes it harder to use indoors on duration builds (which you're probably building for) or, better yet, should last for only as long as you hold the button down, Air Burst being all crummy although situationally useful, and her Tornado augment being pretty bad, albeit really amusing.

However, she's good at tanking fire and can stand in front of objectives to protect them.  Her Turbulence augment increases projectile speed, which gives her more range on weapons like the Arca Plasmor, thus letting her nail targets from across a room when others would need to get close.  She's also a pretty good melee frame because of her three.  She like... doesn't have the tools more dedicated melee frames have, but being bullet immune means you can walk up to stuff and cut it down with impunity.  Or if you have space, you can just be immune to almost all damage with the aim glide.  Tornado lets you CC enemies "over there" due to crosshair targeting while most frames have to get closer to use its CC.  Tornado also effectively turns any weapon into a small AoE weapon since you can unload on the tornado to hit everything caught in it.  Tornado can also CC/damage enemies on the other sides of doors, handy if enemy radar shows a horde waiting on the other side of a locked door.


Nyx really needs some love, but she's still pretty darn good at timed objective defense and killing Razorbacks (confuse to disable the adds, mind control a bursa to skip the hacking, and block missiles with Assimilate) and she can also effectively disable enemy aura abilities, something a lot of frames can't without outright killing.


Someone said Mirage.  Gonna counter that she's still pretty good at what she does:  being a DPS frame who scales on the weapon you're using.  With a number of weapons, you can kinda lazily point your gun in a general direction and mow everything down with her.  She's super squishy, but she at least has some quick CC on her 2 to help.  Her 3 always gives some sort of buff, even though it's kinda finnicky.  4... its cool, but probably needs work on practicality.


Maybe not the worst, but I'd definitely say Ivara needs help.  She has a very slow, methodical playstyle that runs contrary to the fast pace nature of the game.  She's really good at stealth, but Ash and Loki are too and can do it much faster.  She has decent CC, but there's a lot better.  Navigator is fun but... really, just that in my experience.  Artemis Bow is neat, but once you have a good primary I think you might be better without it.  If it weren't for cheesing conservation and cheesing rivens, I'd never touch her,  Also, she's apparently RNG hell for some players too.




But the really, really, really worst frames are those that are an insane pain in the butt to get, like Khora, Baruuk, Equinox, etc.  >.>

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Posted (edited)

I agree that the frames really in need of a rework are Vauban, Ember and Zephyr.

Vauban's CC is really good, but that's basically all he can do. Unlike Hildryn who also has good CC but is a lot more survivable. 

Ember's damage needs to scale somewhat similar to Saryn or Gara.

Zephy's kit is alright, its just the passive and the slamming to walls with her 1 that's a bit annoying.

 

I have to disagree that Octavia, Mesa, Mirage are weak. They're one of the better ones. Or maybe we're doing reverse psychology so DE wont nerf them, in that case, yes they're weak. 🙂

Edited by JawNuts

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13 hours ago, (PS4)tissot555 said:

What!?! Please tell me this is true. Where did you read it?

Here's the link to Rebecca's post 

😁😁

 

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11 hours ago, stormy505 said:

And to avoid melee attacks you need a forgiving tileset plus you can't defend the objective with turbulence if you're stuck to the ceiling.

Just curious.. How do you get stuck on the ceiling? Because the only reactions I do if something hit me with a melee is to either melee them back or shoot them, not to run away.

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11 hours ago, German said:

Most people complaining about Ember are newer players who feel satisfied by afk nuking low level mission, they haven't played long enough yet to realize how boring this makes the game after some time

Wrong. It's the new player complaining about Ember that got her nerfed. Nobody here will disagree with "WoF(even pre-nerf) is boring to use". Culling through low level content was the one thing Ember was good at, hell, every frame is good at clearing those missions.

And if you look at the Warframe discussion subforum, new players are complaining about Saryn doing her job pretty well, and want a nerf because they don't get to kill anything.

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For me the worst is Banshee.

Her abilities are really useless.

My best (for now) are Saryn and Ember (I love World on Fire and Fireblast)

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Posted (edited)
On 2019-08-12 at 9:44 PM, (PS4)Bigboodyjuudy said:

How is zephyr worst? Are you forgetting that her 3rd ability avoids like 95% of incoming enemy bullets? 

Because that's it.

EDIT:
She has a really good ability but the rest of her kit is rather lacking.

Edited by Raqiya

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On 2019-08-12 at 5:04 PM, Oreades said:

Hmmm trying really hard to think of a frame that I just wouldn't touch with a 10ft pole even if I was paid to do so. 

Most of the frames I don't like boil down to the way people play them not so much the frame itself. The biggest offender there not being popular scapegoat Saryn but actually popular slidie boi Nezha... because so many people seem to Firewalker clear to the other side of the map which outright tanks affinity for the rest of the group. That said the few times I've played Nezha I've enjoyed the Frame Soooo. 

I guess my number one worst frame in Warframe are other players playing poorly. 

Too true.  Any frame I am playing is the worst frame especially if the team is trying to speed run something.   Sorry, I am lost.   Be right there.

Regards, Admiral Wrongway

 

 

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I think many frames that were once good have taken the spotlight as worse.

It pains me to say, but I do think that while Zephyr is at least a good weapon platform with very high mobility, defenses, CC and overall stats and Vauban and Ember are the bottom of the barrel, there's a frame, which sees the bottom, when looking up through binoculars.

Hydroid.

All of his abilities have so many gimmicks, that ultimately they don't do anything good enough.

Passive doesn't scale with anything and is some half baked CC
Tempest Barrage is a mediocre CC
Tidal Surge is just another dash
Undertow is full of interesting gimmicks all of which remain exactly that
Tentacle Swarm - Oh boy, low damage, magnetic, uncertain CC, static... Currently it's inferior in every way to Strangledome

But the worst 2 aspects of Hydroid are:
1. He requires Strength, Range (or Negative), Duration and Efficiency all together
2. To make any of his abilities relevant, he needs an augment

Now if all of his augments were added to his kit and the duration and damage of at least 1 and 4 and range of 3 were doubled, so he didn't have to build all, that would have been a beast of a utility frame,  regardless of the current damage meta.

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I loved Ember's Overheat back in the day. And how it looked. Would be cool if they brought it back somehow. I kinda understand since it was mildly redundant with WoF though

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On 2019-08-12 at 1:50 PM, (XB1)AMONGTHEWEAK said:

Excalibur Prime, because I am on console and we cannot obtain it, so it must be the worst frame. So bad in fact they did not want to release it on console. 😂

Jokes aside, every character like Xenox stated are better suited for certain mission types. Some frames completely excel in one area compared to another frame who would be suited for a particular mission. 

Take that back D:{

Excal Prime is best frame!

 

Worst? Errr.... really personal question there. But for me its Ash.

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On 2019-08-13 at 10:07 PM, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

It's funny you keep saying Ember as I use her to absolutely blow throw invasions and low level missions (>30). I never need to stop sprinting and if anything survives for more than a second you simply accelerant them.

As for Nyx, I'd rather use an irradiating disarm Loki and stay invisible the entire match, or even Ivara.

Well ember is great for 30 and below but on 50++ she has no use at all. Which is a shame beacuse i really like Ember. 

I guess, as i said i havent explored nyx much so cant say if shes in a good/bad spot

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On 2019-08-12 at 2:44 PM, ZARIEL_THENOBLEONE said:

I would say zephyr is the worst IMO 

Zephyr is far from the worst warframe, she just needs some minor tweaks. Minor tweaks.

Tailwind/Divebomb just needs some adjusting to when Tailwind becomes Divebomb. Right now it's in the 80-90 degree range, and it should be something closer to 45-55 degrees where Divebomb activates.

Airburst, for what it is and does, and it's synergies, is fine.

Turbulence is broken. You can achieve near invulnerability with 2 mods, that don't pull from the rest of her build at all.

Tornado, now that is takes on elemental status in a better fashion, and is maneuverable on command, Isn't even that bad.

With more and more open spaces on the rise, Zephyr is in a much better spot then she ever was, and while, like nearly ever warframe, she can be outclassed by focused frames, she still shines more then:

Inaros.

You literally can't build him to be great at all 4 abilities, just mediocre at them, unless you sacrifice 2 of them to make the other 2 great.

Because a Standard universal build would be: Vitality, (Primed) Flow, (Primed) Continuity, Stretch, Intensify, Streamline, and Rage, with Physique or Rejuvenation as the Aura, and obviously Coaction Drift.

So, you now have a standard build, except, even with that, his 1 is just Pocket Sand to set up Covert Lethality combos. He's healing the entire time btw.

His 2 is okay here, but why bother? The minion is bad. 15 seconds? Enough for the AI to look at something, shoot it once, and die. Plus, you only get the minion if the unit dies during the devour, which means you're just sitting there, staring at your screen, while Inaros scoops bloody sand into his mouth, until it dies, for a bad pay off.

And i get the argument for "its a total unit lock down ability". Its a bad "total unit lock down ability".

The health re-gen is good, but why bother when you can just use 1 and Covert Lethality your way to full health for half the cost.

His 3 is bad. Bad range, bad energy economy, bad movement speed reduction that only perpetuates the previous bad things about it, and finally, bad synergy. It synergies with his 2. The ability that cost, at base, 50 energy, to effect 1 unit, that if it's still being effected, might be turned into a bad clone, for 15 seconds, if his 3 manages to kill it, which it probably would, if you could get in range, but it's still only synergistic with the one unit, unless you dumped energy into hitting multiple units, which means you can only sustain your 3 for- oh it's over. Never mind. At least you got those min- nope, gone too.

It's bad.

And finally his 4, probably his only good ability, and i'm not talking about the armor increase.

The ability that everyone only uses half of what it does, only because they forget it exists or don't care that it does, even though the other half of his 4 is pretty good, because it sacrifices 25% of the EHP you just built up.

Why? It's not needed. Inaros doesn't need more health re-gen or more local CC. He doesn't need a 5th ability that sacrifices his EHP, when that's all anyone cares about.

In fact, this extra ability, would be the perfect replacement of his 3. Just remove the "converts 25% of scarab armor", and done!

You dont even have to touch anything value wise. Casting cost? The same. Ability strength/effectiveness? The same.

Seriously, this way his 4 is actually used, and not just used immediately the missions starts for the EHP, and then forgotten about till it needs another recharge.

Oh... His passive is good too... So he has 2 good abilities. His 4, and his passive.

In this build, a fairly standard build that attempts to touch on all the things he needs, his only good abilities are 1, and 4, but you'll still only use half of his 4. 2 and 3 are bad.

So unless you build for his 2 (why. Just "why.") Or his 3 (I can see why.) By sacrificing other parts of the build, you're really only hurting him more.

Inaros is just a bad frame... And i mean that in a way that says "let's get him a rework, because every frame deserves to be great at what they do. Not great at everything, but at least what they do. All Inaros does, is not die."

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