More Vauban Ideas

[(PSN)yandelyandel2000]

 

 

Minelayer:

Trip Laser:  Buff Base duration to 1 minute, no effect with duration mods. Buff Range to 60 meters. 

Concuss: 20 Charges and 2 sec Delays. Spawns a decoy

Shred: 20 Charges and 2 sec Delays. 160-170 strength for full armor strip. Remove blast proc. 

Bounce:  20 charges with no delays. Bounce effect buff. Bounce affected by Range. Deals damage based on enemy falling. Does not affect allies. 

All mines energy cost reduced to 25

Can only have 4 of each mines up 

Mines have a visual rework to make it look more like a mine and less like a ball

This mine can be shot at and destroyed essentially making it become a grenade if shot at

In doing so, the range of effect is doubled and damage is double

 

Bastille: 

Increase enemy cap to 15

Enemies that are suspended in Bastille are marked and take 25% Bonus damage affected by Ability Strength 

Mark stays even if enemies are pulled out of Bastilles suspension to Vortex for the duration of Bastille

Can throw Mines from Minelayer into Bastille for better affects:  

Trip Laser would allow Bastille to Trip those not in Bastille

Shred would allow Bastille to remove Armor

Concuss would make Bastille deal ticks of Radiation damage while also pulling aggro from non-radiation affected nearby enemies with the decoy

Bounce will allow Bastille to remove enemies from Bastilles cap similar to Repelling Bastille

Energy cost: 50

 

Vortex: 

Increase Duration to 15 sec

All damage taken by one enemy in Vortex is spread to all other enemies in Vortex 

Near its end, starts to collapse in itself and implodes dealing a percent of stored damage done to enemies in a 10m range

Enemies affect by Vortex removes it from Bastilles Cap, allowing Bastille to gain more enemies when you Vortex them

Energy cost: 50

 

Rewire:

Spawns a large Beacon from a mine that attracts enemies to its location through electromagnetic pulses 

Enemy movement speed is affected by Strength

Speed affects enemies below and above, just like Bastille

The pulling of the enemies is 30 meters affected by Range 

90-180 degree area of effect, affected by Strength

30 sec duration

Can only have 4 up at a time

 

Two instances of damage:

1) When in movement affected enemies are dealt magnetic damage (this is mainly to provide enemy sense) and cannot correctly discern Vauban causing accuracy to be severely reduced 

2) Decoy emits electric pulses that stuns enemies in a 5 meter range

Beacon can be destroyed to refreshes mine charges

100 Energy cost

 

Edited August 20, 2019 by (PS4)yandelyandel2000

[keikogi]

Just giving Vauban more cc and debuffs won't really change his situation. His problem is not lack of cc the problem he he has is the new enemies. Most of the strong enemies now days either have some kind of nulifier shield , are status imune , debuff imune , cc imune or all these at thr same time. In this situation giving Vauban more cc and debuffs wont really help him at all.

[(PSN)yandelyandel2000]

52 minutes ago, keikogi said:

Just giving Vauban more cc and debuffs won't really change his situation. His problem is not lack of cc the problem he he has is the new enemies. Most of the strong enemies now days either have some kind of nulifier shield , are status imune , debuff imune , cc imune or all these at thr same time. In this situation giving Vauban more cc and debuffs wont really help him at all.

Hmm

You're talking about Fortuna?

Not a problem with Vauban, it's a problem with the content being created. You can argue that for every CC warframe, but it all boils down to the choices from those who are managing the content. 

CC could be made very relevant with the right content I mean

So many things could happen with enemies themselves to indirectly buff CC frames or those frames that rely on CC to stay alive

 

In this rework, the Decoys are meant to take aggro from everything including nullifiers and they're all spammable

And Concuss grenade will pull aggro as well

I believe the only CC he doesn't have but is greatly effective for his  kit, is one that redirects enemy movement speed to a point so they can get into Bastille or Vortex much faster

Hence Rewire, as you are not wasting duration and survivability on slow enemy movement speed

 

I gave him scaled slash damage, the best damage multiplier against armor scaling, another damage multiplier from Bastille+ Bastille damage if combined with Minelayer, and even more damage from Vortex explosion+ Damage from Bastille when with Minelayer which would only increase with duration and amount of enemies. Rewire magnifies the effect of all of that since everything is coming to it much faster, increasing your kps and can keeping everything in place without having to spam so it decreases inconvenience.  

 

[keikogi]

29 minutes ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

Hmm

You're talking about Fortuna?

YES, but not really. It is just the direction the game is moving, just look at all relizes since the second dream) .DE has realized that CC can't work properly because if it works the enemies don’t have chance. To counter that DE is adding more and more enemies (kuva guardian, eidolons , amalgams , Fortuna elite enemies , the orb mothers) that can ignore or dispel Skills , especially CC. Why CC can’t work, because the energy economy is out of control. The first culprit was fleeting expertise, but with time many others way to increase energy and efficiency came along (negative duration trinity, rage, arcane energize, zenurik …). If the energy is unlimited so is the cc, unlimited cc means map wide lock down, the enemies can’t fight at all.

29 minutes ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

Not a problem with Vauban, it's a problem with the content being created. You can argue that for every CC warframe, but it all boils down to the choices from those who are managing the content. 

Man, with that logic ember does not deserve a rework, we should just cap enemy level to 40 and she is an amazing frame. The game has changed, if they want Vauban to be useful they cant give him just more layers of CC and debuffs.

Edited August 13, 2019 by keikogi

[(PSN)yandelyandel2000]

24 minutes ago, keikogi said:

Man, with that logic ember does not deserve a rework, we should just cap enemy level to 40 and she is an amazing frame. The game has changed, if they want Vauban to be useful they cant give him just more layers of CC and debuffs.

You misunderstood me cause with that logic I actually wouldn't have stated this reworked or desired for Vauban to change/ have more effective CC

I would have posted something in line of "why Vauban doesn't need a rework"

Vauban does need a rework, most know that

 

What I'm saying is that having those types of enemies are not a bad idea, it's the execution of it and how it affects these frames

The frames themselves don't necessarily need abilities to deal with them if the purpose of these enemies is to not be affected by abilities 

But also don't give them absurd damage/a Lanka/ invulnerability 

30 minutes ago, keikogi said:

YES, but not really. It is just the direction the game is moving, just look at all relizes since the second dream) .DE has realized that CC can't work properly because if it works the enemies don’t have chance. To counter that DE is adding more and more enemies (kuva guardian, eidolons , amalgams , Fortuna elite enemies , the orb mothers) that can ignore or dispel Skills , especially CC. Why CC can’t work, because the energy economy is out of control. The first culprit was fleeting expertise, but with time many others way to increase energy and efficiency came along (negative duration trinity, rage, arcane energize, zenurik …). If the energy is unlimited so is the cc, unlimited cc means map wide lock down, the enemies can’t fight at all.

Who cares about Kuva Guardians? Nullifiers are way worse, even Ancients are worse then them. Kuva Guardian can be killed in one shot and they have a melee/shotgun so you can just literally make them whiff/miss easily. Plus they force you into operator, so you can just not die instinctually. 

 

Why would you go to Eidolons with Vauban? Same thing with Orb

Theres frames for things and frames for other things and Vauban simply doesn't need to be all those things in one frame

 

Theres literally mods right now that can make any frame do Disruption (the Aero Set)

Fleeting Expertise is a good mod 

 

Its good if you have map wide lockdown if you die fast like Vauban- he dies because his CC is not effective enough and the other side of anti-CC is too effective since he can't see all them time and tank it

I think what you meant is that, Why being able to die in one shot really fast can't work instead of "Why CC can't work"

 

CC could work and it obviously has its paces in most game modes

If enemies get a rework, like Nullifiers, CC could work fantastically 

Of course frames themselves should get reworked as well- thats a no brainer

 

So my rework is specifically aimed at making Vauban have more effective CC and survival from his CC while dealing damage with his current kit- there's so many natural tanks in the game these days

The aggro pull from the Decoy will affect Nullifiers, and every other enemy 

And if you throw Concuss onto Bastille, Bastille becomes its own large decoy

He is going to be extremely effective at taking no damage and dealing damage with abilities but with not as much effectiveness as CC

[Jax_Cavalera]

The whole idea of enemies that are completely immune to abilities is at odds with a game built around the concept of playable characters that have abilities. It's a band-aid fix to a problem that needs to be handled better. A good starting point would be having enemies that reduce but do not eliminate the effectiveness of abilities. Mobs that drain energy, reduce ability duration, diminish buff strength, etc.

[(PSN)yandelyandel2000]

22 minutes ago, Jax_Cavalera said:

The whole idea of enemies that are completely immune to abilities is at odds with a game built around the concept of playable characters that have abilities. It's a band-aid fix to a problem that needs to be handled better. A good starting point would be having enemies that reduce but do not eliminate the effectiveness of abilities. Mobs that drain energy, reduce ability duration, diminish buff strength, etc.

I don't think its at odds with the game since weapons exist (and really strong ones at that) to combat them but I see what you mean.

That would be a good starting point, also buffing that enemy sense. Making them leeches actually leech to you when in range like a Trinity so that you'll know they're reducing your energy. 

Hmm 

For a Nullifier Rework I'd think this:

Having them use a Charged Up Projectile Gun and if you get hit by it theres a bubble around you for X amount of second that doesn't allow you to use the most used ability or a random one

[Jax_Cavalera]

2 hours ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

For a Nullifier Rework I'd think this:

Having them use a Charged Up Projectile Gun and if you get hit by it theres a bubble around you for X amount of second that doesn't allow you to use the most used ability or a random one

Yeah that'd be a nice addition for sure.

[Gruiz]

Sorry but, This whole rework idea is useless.. because it keep all his old ability that rarely used because it lacks benefit

Buffing their  ability without changing his whole kit is. Not really good

9 hours ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

Rewire:

Spawns an aggro pulling Decoy from a mine that attracts enemies to its location through electromagnetic pulses 

Enemy movement speed is affected by Strength

Speed affects enemies below and above, just like Bastille

The pulling of the enemies is 30 meters affected by Range 

90-180 degree area of effect, affected by strength like Oberon Hallowed Ground

300 sec duration

Inferior to Ivara quiver ability in stealth and Saryn distraction.. and without being compared, its weak

Why?

1. Ivara and saryn area of effect is 360° without any mods.

2. It does magnetic damage, only good with corpus with shield and flesh... And robots. (Except those with armors like Osprey)

3. Aggro and mine with small hitbox to block.. those doesn't synergy at all, you will end up hited by enemies (stray bullets)

4. Vauban main aspect is "thrown grenade". Which mean this aggro have delay from being thrown from vauban hands to surface

If i have to choose old tesla with this.. i chose Tesla all day (they are dumb fun and can be deadly)

 

9 hours ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

Trip Laser: Able to attach to surfaces by throwing a mine on a surface and the other mine will appear under Vauban to connect it. Buff Base duration to 300 sec, no effect with duration mods. Buff Range to 60 meters. Deals slash damage ticks from percent of scaled health. This damage is affected by strength. Damage is done to enemies that touch the laser and keeps its damage going even if the enemy moved past the laser. This damage to enemies that hit the laser and get passed it, is based on duration. 

This is basically.. too OP (from my experience)

Trip wire is really weird.. they will always trip enemies that already fallen (after running), rendering enemies useless

With this buff, enemies will receive constant damage everytime they run and trip.. until they are dead

 

9 hours ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

Concuss: Remove Charges and Delays. Emits Radiation Pulses for 300 sec. Enemies affected pull aggro from other enemies. 

Shred: Remove Charges and Delays. Emits Corrosive effect like Pulses for 300 sec. 160-170 strength for full armor strip. Remove blast proc. 

Basically ferrox alt fire but spam able and have crazy proc chance.. kinda good but too.. static

 

10 hours ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

Bounce: Mine that allows Vauban to Teleport and briefly turn invisible when done teleporting. Invisibility last for 3 sec. Does not have an arc and throws at faster velocity. Can attach to surfaces. Passes through Security Lasers

Yet it still do have bad thing like bounce.. too slow. Bullet jumping, going to operator is way faster

Also throw faster/stronger should be in "every skill vauban has"

 

10 hours ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

Bastille: 

Increase enemy cap to 15

Enemies that are suspended in Bastille are marked and take 50% Bonus damage affected by Ability Strength 

Mark stays even if enemies are pulled out of Bastilles suspension to Vortex for the duration of Bastille

  

Good one.. but should be combined with vortex… (like tap for bastille and hold for vortex) why? They both do same thing, yet doesn't synergy at all.. wasting a slot

10 hours ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

Can attach Mines from Minelayer onto Bastille:  

Attached mines affect everything caught in Bastille

Trip Laser would make Bastille deal ticks of slash damage 

Shred would make Bastille remove armor

Concuss would make Bastille deal ticks of Radiation damage while also pulling aggro from non-radiation affected nearby enemies 

Bounce will allow Vauban to Bounce to placed Bastilles

 

Not much to say in this.. but its too op, especially if they trip wire slash can be stacked.

Vauban with max strength, normal range and moderate duration could kill any enemy when the bastille got shred+concuss+trip wire in it

Bounce is useless.. and giving disadvantage rather than advantage

10 hours ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

Vortex: 

Increase Duration to 15 sec

All damage taken by one enemy in Vortex is spread to all other enemies in Vortex 

Near its end, starts to collapse in itself and implodes dealing a percent of stored damage done to enemies in a 10m range

Basically MAG BUBBLE... Should be combined with Bastille and add another new ability

[(PSN)yandelyandel2000]

1 hour ago, Gruiz said:

Inferior to Ivara quiver ability in stealth and Saryn distraction.. and without being compared, its weak

Why?

1. Ivara and saryn area of effect is 360° without any mods.

2. It does magnetic damage, only good with corpus with shield and flesh... And robots. (Except those with armors like Osprey)

3. Aggro and mine with small hitbox to block.. those doesn't synergy at all, you will end up hited by enemies (stray bullets)

4. Vauban main aspect is "thrown grenade". Which mean this aggro have delay from being thrown from vauban hands to surface

If i have to choose old tesla with this.. i chose Tesla all day (they are dumb fun and can be deadly)

The decoy is a Vauban- its meant to act just like Saryns decoy (Thats a small hitbox?)

Inferior to Ivara? What? Noise Arrow? I would disagree there

The damage is irrelevant, its meant to fasten enemy speed while keeping you alive

Of course its thrown, but its not like enemies spawn right there in front of face that you cant set this up 

This is a Reworked Tesla, and its much better than Tesla for the simple fact that enemies are pulled to a location- Is that not useful for Vauban? 

You can throw two of these and create 360 setup if placed properly and have the needed Strength, anyway you can create a circle with any power strength

1 hour ago, Gruiz said:

This is basically.. too OP (from my experience)

Trip wire is really weird.. they will always trip enemies that already fallen (after running), rendering enemies useless

With this buff, enemies will receive constant damage everytime they run and trip.. until they are dead

 

Its going to be very very slow if you do that and Rewire forces enemies to move to a location. So in many cases I'd imagine Rewire would force enemies to not fall during tripwire, they will just take tick damage based on a duration

It will always be better just to outright kill the enemies yourself or make them enter Bastille so they'll get suspended for the damage buff

Even so, you say they're useless so why does it matter if they could die?

1 hour ago, Gruiz said:

Basically ferrox alt fire but spam able and have crazy proc chance.. kinda good but too.. static

Again Rewire forces enemies to move to a location, so if you make the enemies move faster to that location (the location of the mine) then it being static won't matter because enemies are going there anyway

 

1 hour ago, Gruiz said:

Not much to say in this.. but its too op, especially if they trip wire slash can be stacked.

Vauban with max strength, normal range and moderate duration could kill any enemy when the bastille got shred+concuss+trip wire in it

Bounce is useless.. and giving disadvantage rather than advantage

They won't deal that much damage as it's not stacked, it will just make Bastille act like a culmination of all the mines, not of every mine you throw in it

So it will take in a Triplaser and make Bastille deal Slash, not five Triplasers and five different ticks of Slash damage- though its not a bad idea

Anyway what you say is already possible and that build has low survivability- you just have to do it with vortex and melee

How is Teleporting a disadvantage? The creation of Bounce seems to be more about mobility, hence the Teleport

 

2 hours ago, Gruiz said:

Good one.. but should be combined with vortex… (like tap for bastille and hold for vortex) why? They both do same thing, yet doesn't synergy at all.. wasting a slot

Simply because is easier to not tap and hold for these two specific abilities, especially when another ability is tap and hold 

They defiantly don't do the same thing, unless I'm blind 

2 hours ago, Gruiz said:

Sorry but, This whole rework idea is useless.. because it keep all his old ability that rarely used because it lacks benefit

Buffing their  ability without changing his whole kit is. Not really good

They provide CC and it benefits Vauban because he is squishy, I'd understand if he were tanky 

Vortex allows Bastille to pick up more enemies, and with Rewire, Vortex is going to be more valuable for that

[Gruiz]

26 minutes ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

Inferior to Ivara? What? Noise Arrow? I would disagree there

"In stealth" 

26 minutes ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

This is a Reworked Tesla, and its much better than Tesla for the simple fact that enemies are pulled to a location- Is that not useful for Vauban? 

Yes, because we have freaking vortex for that. Vortex does the "pulled to a location"

What will enemy do when they reached the decoy point? Standing around like idiot? No. They will move around that point and keep shooting you. Vortex render enemy useless

Why would we need to have 2 same ability?

Yes you could argue that decoy is more cheap with smaller range.. but do we need same ability? Nope we do not

26 minutes ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

The decoy is a Vauban- its meant to act just like Saryns decoy (Thats a small hitbox?)

If you mention that it create hologram.. then yes its like saryn decoy. You didnt mention any of it that i imagine its like a small plate on ground

26 minutes ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

Of course its thrown, but its not like enemies spawn right there in front of face that you cant set this up 

Why Saryn use her decoy? As a panic button or last way to survive under heat of enemies. Which is why the delay made it inferior to saryn decoy

26 minutes ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

Even so, you say they're useless so why does it matter if they could die?

Too "OP".. well if it do tick damage based on duration and unable to stack. This suggestion is good

 

26 minutes ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

Again Rewire forces enemies to move to a location, so if you make the enemies move faster to that location (the location of the mine) then it being static won't matter because enemies are going there anyway

 

Wouldn't vortex be better to use? 

26 minutes ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

They won't deal that much damage as it's not stacked, it will just make Bastille act like a culmination of all the mines, not of every mine you throw in it

So it will take in a Triplaser and make Bastille deal Slash, not five Triplasers and five different ticks of Slash damage- though its not a bad idea

Okay good..

26 minutes ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

How is Teleporting a disadvantage? The creation of Bounce seems to be more about mobility, hence the Teleport

Same as "why volt making you run faster" is a bad thing.. because its not pleasant to use

 

26 minutes ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

They defiantly don't do the same thing, unless I'm blind

They do crowd control.. one hold enemies on air and the other clump enemies together

While it may seem different.. but they are "SAME". They do crowd control on large amount of enemies

They also do not synergy, which is waste of ability slot. 

Here's my idea on synergy

 

 

Edited August 14, 2019 by Gruiz

[Gruiz]

30 minutes ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

They provide CC and it benefits Vauban because he is squishy, I'd understand if he were tanky 

Which is why.. we need Vauban base health, armor and shield to be buffed. Give him skill to defend himself like healing or shield recharge.. or armor enhancement. We need to stay away from "CC is Vauban's Survivability"..

[(PSN)yandelyandel2000]

6 hours ago, Gruiz said:

Yes, because we have freaking vortex for that. Vortex does the "pulled to a location"

What will enemy do when they reached the decoy point? Standing around like idiot? No. They will move around that point and keep shooting you. Vortex render enemy useless

Why would we need to have 2 same ability?

Yes you could argue that decoy is more cheap with smaller range.. but do we need same ability? Nope we do not

Rewire has electricity emitting from it in a small range, its a Reworked Tesla- so if they come close to the point they are going to, they're going to get shocked for a duration

It has 30m of Range when Vortex only has 6m I think

How are they the same- Vortex does not literally attract enemies from that much of a range

Why would you not throw Bastille on to the Decoy so that enemies go to Bastille or so that enemies go to Vortex?

6 hours ago, Gruiz said:

Why Saryn use her decoy? As a panic button or last way to survive under heat of enemies. Which is why the delay made it inferior to saryn decoy

Yes I know, But with Vauban you probably have a Bastille up and the only problem you will encounter is Nullifiers or enemies like them and Duration of your abilites

6 hours ago, Gruiz said:

If you mention that it create hologram.. then yes its like saryn decoy. You didnt mention any of it that i imagine its like a small plate on ground

I thought that saying "Decoy from a mine" would be enough because decoys are usually an image of a Warframe

6 hours ago, Gruiz said:

They do crowd control.. one hold enemies on air and the other clump enemies together

While it may seem different.. but they are "SAME". They do crowd control on large amount of enemies

They also do not synergy, which is waste of ability slot. 

Here's my idea on synergy

Ok the synergy I can think of currently is that Vortex allows Bastille to hold more enemies, because you can Remove enemies from Bastille into Vortex

Yes of course is crowd control but they don't overlap due to base stats

Your idea is nice but not for this rework since Rewire exist- that's why I didn't buff range on anything because thats how you are going to get enemies to move to your traps and thats how you can get your traps to stay 

And you don't think giving Vortex that much range would be op? Would be much worse than having Trip laser kill 1 thing after 5 minutes 

6 hours ago, Gruiz said:

Which is why.. we need Vauban base health, armor and shield to be buffed. Give him skill to defend himself like healing or shield recharge.. or armor enhancement. We need to stay away from "CC is Vauban's Survivability"..

Staying away from CC as a survival tool is not needed- it could be achieved effectively, but thats probably not going to happen because it requires reworking of anti-CC things as well

Hopefully its not a Shield Recharge

Edited August 14, 2019 by (PS4)yandelyandel2000

[Gruiz]

41 minutes ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

It has 30m of Range when Vortex only has 6m I think

How are they the same- Vortex does not literally attract enemies from that much of a range

Doubt it will be 30m if they ever release your idea.. its first ability, which mean it shouldn't have that much range

They are same.. they group enemies into 1 place

42 minutes ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

Why would you not throw Bastille on to the Decoy so that enemies go to Bastille or so that enemies go to Vortex?

So what you're saying that.. enemies will go into one place, not targeting you, just to get cc'ed by Bastille? I dont find them fun at all..

 

44 minutes ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

Yes I know, But with Vauban you probably have a Bastille up and the only problem you will encounter is Nullifiers or enemies like them and Duration of your abilites

Are you implying that decoy is immune to nullifier? Its no for me

45 minutes ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

thought that saying "Decoy from a mine" would be enough because decoys are usually an image of a Warframe

Its not for me.. you need to specify what is the decoy. It could be just a sound, illusion, or anything

46 minutes ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

Your idea is nice but not for this rework since Rewire exist- that's why I didn't buff range on anything because thats how you are going to get enemies to move to your traps and thats how you can get your traps to stay 

So.. you're using 2 abilities.. just to get 1 result. When you can get the same result if the Bastille or Vortex is buffed

Talk about ability slot waste

48 minutes ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

And you don't think giving Vortex that much range would be op? 

Exactly no. Why? Because vortex only pull enemies that already cc'ed by bastille. Enemies in Bastille already unable to do anything, vortex made them into one place

50 minutes ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

Would be much worse than having Trip laser kill 1 thing after 5 minutes

What?

50 minutes ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

Staying away from CC as a survival tool is not needed- it could be achieved effectively, but thats probably not going to happen because it requires reworking of anti-CC things as well

I don't understand what you trying to say

[(PSN)yandelyandel2000]

1 hour ago, Gruiz said:

Are you implying that decoy is immune to nullifier? Its no for me

Huh? I'm saying that Vauban has problems with Nullifiers or that any CC frames has problems with any of these nullifying enemies

The Decoy is meant to distract them

1 hour ago, Gruiz said:

So.. you're using 2 abilities.. just to get 1 result. When you can get the same result if the Bastille or Vortex is buffed

Talk about ability slot waste

Are you saying that Rewire is worse than Tesla, when it does the same thing as Tesla but much more? Or that reworking Tesla is bad in general?

1 hour ago, Gruiz said:

xactly no. Why? Because vortex only pull enemies that already cc'ed by bastille. Enemies in Bastille already unable to do anything, vortex made them into one place

In regards to your "synergy":

Mod for Max Range because negative strength doesn't matter anymore and Max efficiency 

Throw Bastille and then Throw Vortex into it

Vortex has same range as Bastille (20m+)

Shoot everything in Vortex 

Repeat this process for other Spawn location

How many things are going to shoot you? 

At least with Rewire, you have to place it in proper positions and its not 360

If this Rework is not fun, then how is your idea any fun?

You see, it would be redundant to put your idea into this rework because your idea is just Rewire which is a better Tesla 

Bastille and Vortex doesn't need a buff or at least a direct range buff

Minelayer and Tesla do

1 hour ago, Gruiz said:

Doubt it will be 30m if they ever release your idea.. its first ability, which mean it shouldn't have that much range

They are same.. they group enemies into 1 place

Vortex has 6m when Bastille has 10m, should it be that way as well?

I don't think they're going to release of course, I think they're going to release a Vauban that can CC/Tank/Kill with abilites (a one man army) because that seems to be more meta/popular

Edited August 14, 2019 by (PS4)yandelyandel2000

[Gruiz]

6 hours ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

Huh? I'm saying that Vauban has problems with Nullifiers or that any CC frames has problems with any of these nullifying enemies

The Decoy is meant to distract from

Nullifier get pulled to decoy, but his bubble will cease the decoy to non-existent.

 

6 hours ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

Are you saying that Rewire is worse than Tesla, when it does the same thing as Tesla but much more? Or that reworking Tesla is bad in general?

Yes, because as what i said before.. 2 abilities that does the same thing

Reworking tesla always good.. but your idea of rewire is pretty much same as vortex.

6 hours ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

regards to your "synergy":

Mod for Max Range because negative strength doesn't matter anymore and Max efficiency 

Throw Bastille and then Throw Vortex into it

Vortex has same range as Bastille (20m+)

Shoot everything in Vortex 

Repeat this process for other Spawn location

How many things are going to shoot you? 

If this Rework is not fun, then how is your idea any fun?

Actually, minimal power strength is really bad when you put it in my rework idea.. you can check it out on bottom of this thread

Same as rewire.. 30m radius range (60m total when 360°).. how is that fun?

Because my rework is not only that.. it full kit rework that synergy with every abilities.. each does no other ability does.. no 2 abilities that does the same

Bastille need 1 single buff.. pull enemies outside its range with range of 1m, unable to be affected by range mods

Why? This is to prevent enemies on edge of bastille while making it not overpowered

Vortex and bastille never synergy at all.. which is why making them both synergy is a good thing. Unlike yours.. that waste ANOTHER ability slot to get the same result

 

6 hours ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

At least with Rewire, you have to place it in proper positions and its not 360

Implying that people wont spam it in 3 direction under 1 second.. making this argument pointless

6 hours ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

You see, it would be redundant to put your idea into this rework because your idea is just Rewire which is a better Tesla 

No its your idea.. not mine

6 hours ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

Bastille and Vortex doesn't need a buff or at least a direct range buff

Minelayer and Tesla do

THEY ALL NEED BUFF.. small or big changes, total rework. Vortex has small range, small damage, clunky. Bastille have a problem with enemies on edge. Minelayer and tesla is bad in general and should be changed to other abilities

6 hours ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

going to release a Vauban that can CC/Tank/Kill with abilites (a one man army) because that seems to be more meta/popular

I disagree.. Vauban will still be support type with many twist

We dont need any more Tank/Damage frame

 

 

Before you go around told that my rework "is bad becuz of rewire does everything you said with radius of 30m (60m range) that can cover 1 map".. this is my full rework ideas.. that keep his old abilities while adding a lot of unique abilities

 

Edited August 15, 2019 by Gruiz

[keikogi]

@Gruizhad a look at your Vauban rework, the exalted Orb mother just might be insane enough to give Vauban something both unique and useful. But I think you went a bit overboard with summoning in your kit. Five summoned pets are just a bit too much.

Have a look mine, you might find something you can salvage for your kit.

 

 

[(PSN)yandelyandel2000]

5 hours ago, Gruiz said:

Nullifier get pulled to decoy, but his bubble will cease the decoy to non-existent.

Nullifiers can't get pulled though, they would stay in place shooting the decoy as if they're shooting you

5 hours ago, Gruiz said:

Actually, minimal power strength is really bad when you put it in my rework idea.. you can check it out on bottom of this thread

The synergy you provided tells me that it is not bad. Negative power strength I'm assuming would affect the damage of abilities, which is not really needed when you have weapons that deal as much damage as abilities and a Vortex with the same range as Bastille

I'd argue that when you have these two abilities synergising this way, whatever other abilities you give him become that much more obsolete because Bastille+Vortex will be that much more powerful than anything you can give him

The only problem I see is that Bastille won't pick up enemies that much enemies which is already a problem that Repelling Bastille fixes, but then you just throw Vortex and now all enemies are in Vortex and I'm sure you have something that can make him take some shots- so that Vortex becomes your new Repelling bastille

5 hours ago, Gruiz said:

Implying that people wont spam it in 3 direction under 1 second.. making this argument pointless

And people will not just spam Bastille+Vortex to simply make a better Vortex? I'm saying that they're alike in some ways 

It's extremely intrusive to make Vortex have that much range because you can render everything useless but also kill everything it's affecting 

You can imagine why the range is low

To me, it sounds like you are saying that Rewire will Render things useless everytime you say it's the same as Vortex- you can still be shot at and die if not careful with movement

It's a way of negating scaling enemy accuracy for a squishy frame and Decoy is of course line of sight so it's not like enemies are going to be shooting through walls to hit the decoy

The range is not that op 

Vortex=Bastille with more range is OP, it tarnishes your entire kit idea because it's more optimal just to mod that way and all the other abilities are just worse 

5 hours ago, Gruiz said:

No its your idea.. not mine

I thought you were suggesting the synergy you provided for this Rework

It just forces Vauban to throw Vortex into Bastille all the time

5 hours ago, Gruiz said:

Before you go around told that my rework "is bad becuz of rewire does everything you said with radius of 30m (60m range) that can cover 1 map".. this is my full rework ideas.. that keep his old abilities while adding a lot of unique abilities

I liked your idea at first glance and I already seen and commented on your Rework

5 hours ago, Gruiz said:

THEY ALL NEED BUFF.. small or big changes, total rework. Vortex has small range, small damage, clunky. Bastille have a problem with enemies on edge. Minelayer and tesla is bad in general and should be changed to other abilities

Check, check and check. Rewire solves those problems, it solves the problem of all his abilities in the simplest and logical way that I could think of

Then I must believe this need a want

Edited August 15, 2019 by (PS4)yandelyandel2000

[Gruiz]

4 hours ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

 it just forces Vauban to throw Vortex into Bastille all the time

Yet casting both vortex and Bastille cost a great amount of energy.. 75x2=150 energy.. and it have low duration which mean you will need to recast it alot

Bigger amount of energy wasted = more powerful

But.. rewire.. 300 seconds for the cost of 25 energy.. or 50 energy for 360°

5 hours ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

Nullifiers can't get pulled though, they would stay in place shooting the decoy as if they're shooting you

But he still walk to the decoy right?

5 hours ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

The range is not that op 

How is 60m range is not that OP?

5 hours ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

Check, check and check. Rewire solves those problems, it solves the problem of all his abilities in the simplest and logical way that I could think of

Adding another skill as bandaid is... NO

We need to fix each of the abilities.. why they are not good?.. not using a bandaid to fix other abilities

5 hours ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

The only problem I see is that Bastille won't pick up enemies that much enemies which is already a problem that Repelling Bastille fixes, but then you just throw Vortex and now all enemies are in Vortex and I'm sure you have something that can make him take some shots- so that Vortex becomes your new Repelling bastille

A lot of people suggest to remove the enemy limit.. which i agree

5 hours ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

It's extremely intrusive to make Vortex have that much range because you can render everything useless but also kill everything it's affecting 

Tell that to nidus larva..

Vortex deal magnetic damage, which is really bad against armor.. and the most hardest enemy have scaling armor. They wont do much

5 hours ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

Vortex=Bastille with more range is OP, it tarnishes your entire kit idea because it's more optimal just to mod that way and all the other abilities are just worse 

Not really.. as i said before.. having tons of range will decrease the duration by a LOT.. which mean you need to recast and recast again with great energy cost.

This is to make player maintain their energy, not blind lessly throw thing at everything

[(PSN)yandelyandel2000]

6 hours ago, Gruiz said:

Yet casting both vortex and Bastille cost a great amount of energy.. 75x2=150 energy.. and it have low duration which mean you will need to recast it alot

Bigger amount of energy wasted = more powerful

But.. rewire.. 300 seconds for the cost of 25 energy.. or 50 energy for 360°

But with max efficiency it will reduce to about 20 for each, so 40 for the combo

You don't need that much duration if you spam and do high burst damage especially with a gas sniper

6 hours ago, Gruiz said:

How is 60m range is not that OP?

It does nothing but increase enemy movement speed and reducing accuracy in terms of enemies

The range is to go naturally well with all his other abilities and the trapper theme

If I were to move this ability to 3rd or 4th slot you probably would have a lesser time saying that Rewire is OP

6 hours ago, Gruiz said:

How is 60m range is not that OP?

So why not just Buff Vortex range to that of Bastille if you are looking at Nidus?

Why keep Bastille if it's going to have the same range as Vortex?

Vortex damage does not matter to me, weapons are far more useful and deadlier to build than anything that can be reasonably done- this is why I buffed using weapons to get the damage

Grineer just have armor, remove that and most of them are nothing

Shred exist just for that, of course it should be buffed to reasonable means

 

Edited August 15, 2019 by (PS4)yandelyandel2000

[(PSN)yandelyandel2000]

6 hours ago, Gruiz said:

A lot of people suggest to remove the enemy limit.. which i agree

Just remove Bastille at that point

6 hours ago, Gruiz said:

A lot of people suggest to remove the enemy limit.. which i agree

This is not a bandaid though, it literally will fix his problems 

This is what I see as his problem:

Enemy movement speed due to losing duration and survivability

Minelayer base stats and mechanic to where enemies has to touch it

Telsa because its Tesla

This is what I see as necessary, not wants which generates things like an Orb Mother or the removal of Bastille cap

I'm not against the idea of that, its just that it's not necessary to make Vauban good/working

 

Edited August 15, 2019 by (PS4)yandelyandel2000

[keikogi]

38 minutes ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

Just remove Bastille at that point

You mifit be relatively new around here but in ancient times (around update 9) bastille had no target limit.

38 minutes ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

This is what I see as necessary, not wants which generates things like an Orb Mother or the removal of Bastille cap

Vauban is widely considered a bad frame and has or had a lot of fans. I've seen lots of reworks: mutiple Vauban modes ; summoning tactical armors; exalted turrents ( there is at leas 50 of this one ) ; exalted Moa ; exalted sentinel or my version (exalted sentinel/ armor ). All these reworks are trying to adrees 2 problems.

First , Vauban skills feel the same ( throw a ball it does cc , the only thing you have to do is look at the most energy efficient one).

Second , CC immune enemies are a thing , if the only survivability you got is cc , you are going down. 

Edited August 15, 2019 by keikogi

[Gruiz]

1 hour ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

max efficiency

Lowering the low duration is... Making vauban too active

Which is good and bad

1 hour ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

I were to move this ability to 3rd or 4th slot you probably would have a lesser time saying that Rewire is OP

Yep, exactly.. but you didn't move it to 3rd or 4th slot

Because its not worth right?

1 hour ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

This is not a bandaid though, it literally will fix his problems 

Its bandaid to fix all vauban problem

As i said before.. isn't it better to fix the abilities rather than using another ability slot to fix it?

1 hour ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

This is what I see as necessary, not wants which generates things like an Orb Mother or the removal of Bastille cap

Bastille cap was added because vauban was too OP.. thats before DPS meta comes

You get the idea

1 hour ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

Shred exist just for that, of course it should be buffed to reasonable means

The current is really bad.. but yours is too Overpowered

300 second for constant armor stripping.. like what the hell?

1 hour ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

So why not just Buff Vortex range to that of Bastille if you are looking at Nidus?

Why keep Bastille if it's going to have the same range as Vortex?

Vortex damage does not matter to me, weapons are far more useful and deadlier to build than anything that can be reasonably done- this is why I buffed using weapons to get the damage

Energy cost.. Max efficiency is really bad on CC frame like vauban

Removing bastille will make people have less choice.. not everyone love their enemies grouped into one point

Bastille offer enemies to be headshotted.. but vortex doesnt

With bastille being removed, many player unable to get headshot through vauban cc

Might as well make every ability ingame, because weapon is FAR MORE useful right?

Also 1 thing to add.. are you sure your rework are.. Fun to play? Not boring? Thats what i always consider everytime i read a reworks

Is it fun to play with this?

 

 

Damn.. we had long debate and i love it

Edited August 15, 2019 by Gruiz

[prodi1600]

At this time in warframe vauban needs to be redesigned, I think he needs to be a CC DPS buff/debuff heal

My suggestions for his abilities:

1- Tesla coils make them work as wisp plants, one that recover health over time for players and deals dps for enemies, other coil will give players energy while shocking enemies.

Third coil buff player attack or defenses while debuffing enemies attack or defense like valkyrs cry but with no slowdown.

The coils can drop from the sky as they were the excavators used in excavation operation, I would suggest to make them duration based with a wide range with minimum duration of 30 seconds.

2 - don't we the point of the mines better rework it into something else, like an ability for vauban survival or a mass buff/debuff that can help cc.

3- Bastille with no limit

4- vortex reworked you into a nuke, and make it synergize with 1 and 3 for extra damage something like bonus damage per enemy trapped with Bastille and surviving enemies will be debuffed like stripped of armor shields or be confused/slowed down.

This might help him be more relevant.

 

 

[(PSN)yandelyandel2000]

1 hour ago, Gruiz said:

Lowering the low duration is... Making vauban too active

Which is good and bad

Too active in his current kit, yes

Active with 20m range, 10 sec dur Vortex, no

10 sec with one mod- Primed Continuity

I think you undermine the potential of weapons and I can't imagine what they're going to do with future weapons

You can still nuke with the right weapons and with that Vortex

1 hour ago, Gruiz said:

Yep, exactly.. but you didn't move it to 3rd or 4th slot

Because its not worth right?

No, I will change many things based on feedback- that just takes some time. I'm saying that your argument soley relies on  Rewire being the 1st ability- not because it's OP

1 hour ago, Gruiz said:

Yep, exactly.. but you didn't move it to 3rd or 4th slot

Because its not worth right?

And I'm saying that the abilities you speak of don't need to change

They don't NEED to

Reworking Tesla or Minelayer to function more better with his other 2 abilities is far better and theres far more simple ways to do that, then creating other abilities that can have its own problems

Thats all thats needed in a rework, to make the frame more effective at what he does and he already has 2 good abilites

1 hour ago, Gruiz said:

Removing bastille will make people have less choice.. not everyone love their enemies grouped into one point

Bastille offer enemies to be headshotted.. but vortex doesnt

With bastille being removed, many player unable to get headshot through vauban cc

 

I'm saying that in the context of you're saying and your rework

You said Vortex has too low damage, it's not a stretch to assume that Vortex can kill things with that damage or the other abilities you gave him

Anyway you can actually kill enemies much faster when they'e are in Vortex and you have punch through

And if they're tanking you can just use whatever ability you gave him to deal with that

2 hours ago, Gruiz said:

Might as well make every ability ingame, because weapon is FAR MORE useful right?

Also 1 thing to add.. are you sure your rework are.. Fun to play? Not boring? Thats what i always consider everytime i read a reworks

Is it fun to play with this?

Weapons/elemental combos are far more useful than abilities for many Warframes

Especially for Vauban

And yes, I find Vaubans play style to be the most fun frame in the game