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Zhoyzu

Current melee system needs to revert back to previous version

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DE, this current state of melee in the game is WORSE than melee ever used to be and likely worse than melee ever could be. It is time to either roll out 3.0 or revert back to 2.0
Here are the glaring issues with melee in its current state.

1 Removal of melee mode

For a  game that more or less made its name and takes pride in its customization options it is incredibly odd that y'all would make the conscious decision to REMOVE customization options. Melee mode was more important than you seemed to realize simply for the ability to bind all melee related actions to the mouse without it affecting any gun/firing related keys. The removal of melee mode has added back keybind conflicts that shouldn't be plaguing players. There are too many actions for both using guns and meleeing that the melee mode was not only nice to have but necessary. Please bring this back (either in a revert or with melee 3.0).

2 Blocking

 Removing the ability to block when i choose too now causes several problems and destroys melee (focused) builds. Because blocking consumes energy in most cases it was wise to not block EVERYTHING or risk never having an energy pool to do anything from blocking, using skills, or channeling. Even a Rage built inaros with zenurik does not have enough energy gain to offset blocking ALL incoming damage. This poses quite a problem for people using melee (focused) builds. I for one use a lot of channeling with my builds which requires an energy pool to make effective and some way to get energy reliably (Rage in my case). I also like to use frames like Chroma, Ash, Inaros, Wisp, and every now and then Banshee to host my melee builds. All of these frames have abilities benefiting a melee build, which i wont list, and without them the build suffers because all the energy i have/gain is consumed on blocking everything. 
Holding block was also a great way to force proc a few melee stance combos. For example, using a sword and shield stance you were able to hold block while spamming the melee key (left click for me) and force the shield throw combo where you get to feel like ****ing captain america. It was so cool. But thanks to the removal of player options, it is no longer possible to force that combo. SnB arent the only ones, many weapons could have a combo forced to proc by holding block while meleeing.

3 Channeling

Channeling builds are very strong and most melee builds incorporate life strike. Having channeling become a toggle is nice, however it would be nice to also have left the option as it was where i click to channel and release the key to stop. Seems like a small issue, and tbh it is. However press and release is better and a more efficient action for short bursts of channeling. The thing about channeling builds is that they are very strong but also have a massive drain on ones energy pool (refer to section '2 Blocking' as to why this issue is now compounded), so toggling channel is also unwise. Please add back the option to not toggle.

I don't know whats in store for melee 3.0 but without these issues addressed or fixed it won't matter what melee 3.0 brings as it will essentially be unplayable. I don't understand why you all left melee in the state its in for so long without being remotely close to melee 3.0, its baffling really. While the quick melee thing is cute and nice the changes made did more harm than good.


Please consider reverting back into melee mode, at least until melee 3.0 is actually ready to be released.

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Posted (edited)

Edit: weird double posting from lag

 

Edited by Zhoyzu

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2 minutes ago, Zhoyzu said:

Please consider reverting back into melee mode

Not going to happen. This holds as much power as asking that Damage 1.0 be brought back.

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The only real option is to grin and bear it, cause there's no way a revert is coming

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2 minutes ago, Atsia said:

The only real option is to grin and bear it, cause there's no way a revert is coming

im at least hoping for a "re-implementation"

 

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2 minutes ago, Zhoyzu said:

im at least hoping for a "re-implementation"

 

I must ask what you could possibly mean, cause the only thing that would possibly change is getting manual blocking back. Everything else about Melee 2.9 is pretty much a genuine upgrade from 2.0, so any revert back to 2.0 is unlikely.

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The new melee system flows so much better and feels better as well so I say nay! I like being able to swap to melee on the fly and then back to my gun!

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I do agree with the removal of auto blocking, it can definitely become annoying at times. Here’s hoping it gets removed/changed with the introduction of melee 3.0. 🤞

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Most people (including me) seem to like auto-switching, outside of stuff like aiming messing with specific combos. The main problem people have is with auto-blocking. Hopefully DE does something about it, they've said that this is technically only "melee 2.7" rather than the complete rework so more is coming. Who knows when that will be though.

As for Channeling, outside of Life Strike I'm not sure what your source is on Channeling builds being strong, because most people think they're a joke. Sure you can just passively channel if you have spare energy, but modding for it is pointless when you can mod for normal damage which you don't have to spend energy on to use. In any case, DE has said that they're going to massively rework Channeling into something completely different, so there's not much point discussing how to fix the current iteration of Channeling.

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the issue isnt the ability to quick melee. they basically removed melee from the game other than just doing a quick melee here and there without the need for a complete overhaul of keybinds.
I for one am sick and tired of rebinding my keys everytime i need use a gun for a sortie or a mission/quest/nightwave.

 

The smooth quick melee is nice but it came at too great a cost

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50 minutes ago, Zhoyzu said:

just like your previous statement. thanks for contributing literally nothing

 

Mate you were saying that not reverting to melee 2.0 means that removing steam customization logically follows.  That makes absolutely no sense.  That's like saying the addition of rivens inevitably meant base Warframe stats like health and armor would become RNG at the time you built it.

I was open to your topic, but not after that lol.

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Zhoyzu said:

the issue isnt the ability to quick melee. they basically removed melee from the game other than just doing a quick melee here and there without the need for a complete overhaul of keybinds.
I for one am sick and tired of rebinding my keys everytime i need use a gun for a sortie or a mission/quest/nightwave.

 

The smooth quick melee is nice but it came at too great a cost

Think about the console players like me though. The changes made to the melee system made it so much easier for us and if the cost of that is a slight inconvinience to one platform so be it!

Edited by (XB1)Zweimander
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Posted (edited)

I for one absolutely hate the melee in this game!

The melee in this game is absolutely horrible, the stances suck. There is nothing fun or interesting about any of them. Just mash E and hope you don't hop over what you trying to hit .

I really hope they reimagine the majority of the stances cause this S#&$ is pathetic and embarrassing for a ninja horde killer. 

Edited by (XB1)SixGunLove
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11 minutes ago, (XB1)SixGunLove said:

I for one absolutely hate the melee in this game!

The melee in this game is absolutely horrible, the stances suck. There is nothing fun or interesting about any of them. Just mash E and hope you don't hope over what you trying to hit .

I really hope they reimagine the majority of the stances cause this S#&$ is pathetic and embarrassing for a ninja horde killer. 

You're in luck, DE has said they're currently working on that. Every stance will be completely redone so that they all have combos for different purposes, which are also easier to actually pull off as well. Wukong's Iron Staff currently has a prototype version of the new system as its built-in stance.

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17 minutes ago, (XB1)SixGunLove said:

So I've herd. And sources on redoing every stance?

They mention that they're working on reworking combos in this devstream:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYU7bGIhSXg&feature=youtu.be&t=2229

They also mention that Iron Staff is a prototype for Melee 3.0 in the Wukong rework patch notes, which also included a new combo:

I'm not sure entirely if they're going to change a huge number of existing combos, but they're definitely going to make combos simpler and more streamlined. If they're adding many new streamlined combos to stances then they'll likely be updating the crappy stances with only 2 combos. Hopefully this will help with the problem of floaty combos that bounce around without hitting anything (looking at you Final Harbinger and Brutal Tide).

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Il y a 5 heures, (XB1)Zweimander a dit :

Think about the console players like me though. The changes made to the melee system made it so much easier for us and if the cost of that is a slight inconvinience to one platform so be it!

Most people complaining about it aren't using controllers, as far as i'm concerned i'm playing on PC but using a controller though. Last time i've had to play with mouse & keyboard i've found the game way less enjoyable, less smooth - and th a bit of a mess.

Tbh this kind of game shouldn't be played with anything but a controller or at least some people should try once, handling guns/melee/parkour/operator/powers at the same time is definitely a real pain. No wonders some players are only spamming their frame's 4th, even switching from one power to another feels lame. Anyway, having tested both i wouldn't get back to my keyboard, for any reasons.

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42 minutes ago, 000l000 said:

Most people complaining about it aren't using controllers, as far as i'm concerned i'm playing on PC but using a controller though. Last time i've had to play with mouse & keyboard i've found the game way less enjoyable, less smooth - and th a bit of a mess.

Tbh this kind of game shouldn't be played with anything but a controller or at least some people should try once, handling guns/melee/parkour/operator/powers at the same time is definitely a real pain. No wonders some players are only spamming their frame's 4th, even switching from one power to another feels lame. Anyway, having tested both i wouldn't get back to my keyboard, for any reasons.

I like to play some games with a controller, but handling guns without a mouse is incredibly gimping. Analogue sticks are awesome for movement, but horrible for targeting and for me at least, horrible at camera control. If Warframe was a melee-only game with a fixed camera I'd probably prefer using a controller aswell.

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Posted (edited)
Il y a 3 heures, Vethalon a dit :

I like to play some games with a controller, but handling guns without a mouse is incredibly gimping. Analogue sticks are awesome for movement, but horrible for targeting and for me at least, horrible at camera control. If Warframe was a melee-only game with a fixed camera I'd probably prefer using a controller aswell.

Never had any issues with gun and headshots with a controller (and i'm playing Harrow a lot), i think one needs to get used to it. In fact i'm even more precise with a controller cause both sticks can be used together to help with aim - mouse on the other tends to be a little jerky cause usually one finger is way more stable than your whole hand. the thing i don't like at all is that keyboard is a mess when it comes to handle smooth movements and globally mouse & keyboard both synergize less than two sticks - especially on such a game - Warframe isn't your usual FPS shooter, movement matters a lot.

But most players are using Ignis anyway (at least on PC since i'm not playing with console players), so who cares. 😄

Edited by 000l000

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My two biggest gripes with Melee 3.0 are stances and autoblock, and in this respect I don't think the problem is that our current state is untenable, but that DE have delayed for far too long in nudging us towards the more finished system they'd promised us. It's been months since the update, and we've gotten essentially just one updated stance on Wukong, and despite the large amount of feedback both it and autoblock have received, not much has been done since. Thus, I think the way forward shouldn't be to ask for a revert (because Melee 2.0 was arguably worse, not to mention duller and even clunkier than what we have now), but rather to just ask DE to hurry up and diligently address the current transitional system's biggest pain points.

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nah, just make it an option, you can choose to revert back to '2.0' mode yourself, or '1.9' or whatever

what i mean is that more options are always better than less options

things have been getting worse with the advent of cell phones, smart phones; now all internet has to be for those stupid small screens instead of desktop computer, just pathetic

same thing with video game, the mentality of the stupid 'smart' phone takes over and everyone thinks it should just be the one press 'easy button', like how the apple always has the stupid one button design.

.

at any rate, /agree please give us the option to do things OUR way; i too want to be able to select melee only, or rifle only, so just have that AND a 'both' option, you already have the old code for it stored away somewhere

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I really want de to bring parts of the 2.0 system, the quick swap is fine as is but performing combos that require you to press L3 on ps4 are nigh impossible. 

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Absolutely NO! It took me and mist of us a while to get used to the new system, and it’s good and smooth for fast attacks and automatic blocking for more protection. It can be tweaked. It’s very good and much better than before. 

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13 hours ago, Zhoyzu said:


I for one am sick and tired of rebinding my keys everytime i need use a gun for a sortie or a mission/quest/nightwave.

The smooth quick melee is nice but it came at too great a cost

I still rebind keys to make game play better from time to time. You can be expecting to use the same key binding forever as the system improves and changes over time. 

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I only wish we would get quick melee back. I don't want staggering combos on myself when I want to quickly finish someone off.

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