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Can we have some content DE?


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1 minute ago, --DSP--Jetstream said:

probably he meant that the open world stuff didnt last long, like plains and fortuna theyre take years to make but get boring fast.

He also said he wants new planet every 3 months...

Edited by kuciol
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Frames and weapons are content...but what's the point of having something new to use when you'll just wind up using it in the exact same missions and likely shelving it when it hits 30 anyway?

This is why I am waiting exclusively for Empyrean, I want something NEW to do, not the same thing with a different loadout.

Also fully agree with GaussPrime and the like on Nightwave, it isn't content, just a replacement to the old alert reward system.

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1 hour ago, (XB1)RevenantRequiem said:

Because they are content. Don't like Warframe? Don't play it, we won't miss ya.

I don't think it something players are supposed to deal with. I mean, you're right from your point of view. You play and enjoy the game in a way and if someone else doesn't, what's it to you? Fair point.

The issue that more and more people seem to openly speak about is that the release date of actual playable content is getting frustrating for veterans. Allow me to explain a bit better. You start the game and you're like "WOW, there's really this much stuff to do? really? It's awesome. I will play warframe for years to come!" and it's a perfectly legit feeling and also true. I felt like that myself when I started.

Once you actually reach "the end" you notice that DE has started to change "idea" about what qualifies as content as most, if not all, the last updates have been reskinned endless missions with only gas city barely adding a breath of fresh air. Open worlds take way too long to develop for the amount of time they are able to entertain us and I think they are somewhat starting to notice. They haven't figured it out yet but I think they are catching wind of it. DE has to understand that "content" is not the same mission with higher level enemies, this no longer works to retain players. Newbies don't have this problem as the normal amount of stuff in warframe is already more than enough to keep em busy for a long time if they decide to stay but as a "veteran" every time De release something I'm like

"great, great, another reskinned endless mission so now I can play the same stuff I did for years to get more stuff I didn't even ask for nor need. What's actually new? Nothing? Well.....time to go play something else". This happens to a lot of people and eventually it will drive them away for good and it will happen to new players too once they reach the position we're in now.

 

I know new content take time and I'm the first one that doesn't want them to rush but DE has to learn to release actually new fun stuff instead of the same old stuff and I'm including open worlds as they scream of unrefined content with the same objectives of normal mission: defend x, escort y, survive for z amount of time, gee think of something else already!

 

EDIT

Empyrean seems like a step in the right direction. The demo we were shown seems funny enough and if the nemesis system scales properly allowing to "build" a commander and start a mission at very high level instead of having to wait hours I think DE might catch like, 3 birds with one stone. I want warframe to be successful, I do. This is the reason I'm so critical sometimes

Edited by Olphalarepth
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12 minutes ago, Olphalarepth said:

Empyrean seems like a step in the right direction. The demo we were shown seems funny enough and if the nemesis system scales properly allowing to "build" a commander and start a mission at very high level instead of having to wait hours I think DE might catch like, 3 birds with one stone. I want warframe to be successful, I do. This is the reason I'm so critical sometimes

Gotta also brace ourselves for the inevitable waves of forum threads saying Empyrean is too difficult, it's unfair that new players are locked out of it, and the generic millions of complaints that will somehow materialise out of thin air. 

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4 minutes ago, sleepychewbacca said:

Gotta also brace ourselves for the inevitable waves of forum threads saying Empyrean is too difficult, it's unfair that new players are locked out of it, and the generic millions of complaints that will somehow materialise out of thin air. 

I'm going to say something that many users won't like. Enough of this crap of catering to everyone at the same time. New players have an ocean of things to do and farm. They have new content, I think it's time DE starts to look a bit out for more experienced and hardcore players. Give new players a taste of empyrean but put some brutal stuff in it for people who can handle it spicy. Went a bit OT with this one so I will not reply any further to this. Sorry

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6 hours ago, kuciol said:

Its not a straw, you completely ignore the fact that your so called "improvements" are something that nobody really wants. Core gameplay IS good, you want to make it DIFFERENT and i dont want it one bit. Changing core gameplay would improve the game for YOU while shafting majority of players and you will also get bored eventually. You and people like you are perfect proof that game doesnt need that, because you are still here despite not having this content. Just by still playing you defeated your own argument. How much longer you think you should be engaged until it gets long enough? 4-5 year is not? I would say its pretty good. Your motivation is purely selfish, just covered in Messiah complex. You want to "save" the game that doesnt need saving. Give me 1 example of a game that is on market for 5+ years and people dont complain about it. I will wait and no, single player games dont count since you play them differently. I want an example of live service game.

Where did I say that I want to change Warframe's gameplay, past maybe some stuff like not making weapons or powers that requires practically no input or creative building from the player? Like, Metal Blade in Mega Man is a meme for a reason. Mega Man has an incredibly strong combat loop as I've said, but Metal Blade notoriously breaks it in MM2.

 

Also, of course there's no perfect game. But that also doesn't mean that what we have doesn't have problems, and that dealing with the problematic elements can't improve the game.

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19 hours ago, AnOldAlias said:

Yeah, I've been in a slight burnout myself as of late as well. But, when DE does introduce some new content(especially considering Railjack / Empyrean is coming within a month or two, prob' the former), it's usually well worth the wait, all things considered.

If you're in a burnout phase, just take a lil break. Login to get your logins, do what dailies you want, then hop off and play something else if you can(should your computer be good enough for anything else). Do what NW missions you want for that day, etc.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with being burnt out, or wanting more content, or both. But it's the way you express this that matters here.

Just be patient, I'm sure the wait will be worth it.

nice man. yeah im optimistic about Empyrean as well.

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21 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Where did I say that I want to change Warframe's gameplay, past maybe some stuff like not making weapons or powers that requires practically no input or creative building from the player? Like, Metal Blade in Mega Man is a meme for a reason. Mega Man has an incredibly strong combat loop as I've said, but Metal Blade notoriously breaks it in MM2.

 

Also, of course there's no perfect game. But that also doesn't mean that what we have doesn't have problems, and that dealing with the problematic elements can't improve the game.

Because you want something that doesnt really fit that genre therefor "changing it" indirectly or like the AI fix dude, changing it completely. What you see as "flaws" i see a reason why i play this game in the first place. You want Raids? Fine. But how do you make it accessible to majority keeping in mind prime reason why they failed? How you make combat challenging but not annoying? How do you determine how "challenging" it should be while keeping in mind that vast majority cant even solo teralyst? What reward structure you put in to not make it mandatory to do while also keeping it desirable? Dont forget that people here cry even when they need to work for a fkn fluf. In short, you want your idea of challenging content while ignoring that for majority its already hard enough. You want DE to waste time on something that will be empty within 2 months. 

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2 minutes ago, kuciol said:

Because you want something that doesnt really fit that genre therefor "changing it" indirectly or like the AI fix dude, changing it completely. What you see as "flaws" i see a reason why i play this game in the first place. You want Raids? Fine. But how do you make it accessible to majority keeping in mind prime reason why they failed? How you make combat challenging but not annoying? How do you determine how "challenging" it should be while keeping in mind that vast majority cant even solo teralyst? What reward structure you put in to not make it mandatory to do while also keeping it desirable? Dont forget that people here cry even when they need to work for a fkn fluf. In short, you want your idea of challenging content while ignoring that for majority its already hard enough. You want DE to waste time on something that will be empty within 2 months. 

Ok, then, if that's the case, tell me your perspective. How does the Ignis Wraith, a weapon that has almost no major drawbacks in the majority of content and thus requires minimal input in both build and use, improve the gameplay for the user and those around them using weaponry that requires more input in both categories? I've given my reasons, only fair to hear your perspective.

Bear in mind - as  I have already mentioned, rapid/easy resource acquisition is not an improvement. This leads to hyperinflation of said resources, and subsequently forces DE to have to accrete more resource types into the game and/or disconnect them from combat in order to prevent players from acquiring everything new as soon as an update drops.

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14 minutes ago, DOOMPATRIOT said:

Just play another game, this game isn't worth it, at least not anymore.

The more time you play it the more painful it is to play it.

We all waiting for Railjack ( Pointless Grind Simulator 10.0).

DE doesn't care about people like us, who has invested ton of time and sometimes money in this game.

It is sad to see what Warframe is becoming: a big f@ck you for all the players that stood up with this game when nobody did.

If Wyrmius is the hardest content in the game, then you know something is not ok.

 

Projecting, much?

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31 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Ok, then, if that's the case, tell me your perspective. How does the Ignis Wraith, a weapon that has almost no major drawbacks in the majority of content and thus requires minimal input in both build and use, improve the gameplay for the user and those around them using weaponry that requires more input in both categories? I've given my reasons, only fair to hear your perspective.

Bear in mind - as  I have already mentioned, rapid/easy resource acquisition is not an improvement. This leads to hyperinflation of said resources, and subsequently forces DE to have to accrete more resource types into the game and/or disconnect them from combat in order to prevent players from acquiring everything new as soon as an update drops.

Every weapon has a drawback, Ignis is not very strong, has low range and is beam type therefor doesnt suit all situations, not even majority you wont use it for eidolons for example as well as PoE or OV. 2nd of all you miss the point completely. This game is not about engaging, strategic combat and i play it because of it. You talk like everybody has already everything when in reality those that have are negligible percentage.  You wont ever get anything harder or complex then tridolon fight because its pointless to do such content for the very few that want it. 

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4 hours ago, DerGreif2 said:

why grind frames and weapons you dont want when there is nothing to do with them? Your answer: "you can grind more stuff you dont want"... ok... no...

New ways to customize your gameplay (frames, weapons, upgrades) count as new content whether an individual likes them or not. "I didn't like the new expansion" doesn't mean the game didn't have a new expansion.

5 hours ago, DerGreif2 said:

The thing is that the last thing we got was the Gas city rework.

Yeah, I'm aware. It's not coming fast, but it's never going to be available at a rate similar to how players consume it. It's just like a how a Netflix series will take 1-2 years to create a new season, which some viewers consume in just 1-2 days and then start complaining there isn't more. That stuff takes time.

Besides, I'd rather wait and get quality content than demand an early release of mediocre content. 

Edited by SenorClipClop
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18 minutes ago, kuciol said:

Ignis is not very strong

It can operate at sortie-level with 6 mods.

18 minutes ago, kuciol said:

has low range

The average range of all primary beam weapons is 28.75. The Ignis Wraith has 27 metres. It should also be noted that in most tilesets, engagement distance is well within 20-30 metres.

23 minutes ago, kuciol said:

doesnt suit all situations

Unlike most other beam weapons (except for another favourite - the Amprex) the Ignis Wraith has considerable AoE potential as it innately deals damage within 3 metres, and has the larget beam thickness. Most beam weapons are single-target, which makes up most of their weaknesses. Despite this, it deals the 4th highest damage (the fifth being the regular variant). Despite this, it also has the 4th highest crit chance and status chance and second highest crit damage, with the status chance being lower than the Quanta Vandal by 1%. This means that it is competitive in the beam weapon's primary role - single-target damage - and as an AoE damage dealer. Due to its high status chance, it can be built to be extremely effective against any faction, as it can strip armour very effectively and still have heat damage (which notably deals bonus damage to Grineer), Gas damage which it will maximise due to its AoE properties enabling it to deal with Corpus very easily, and with Corrosive/Heat, deals boosted damage to all infested except Hemocyte.

The only situation in which it is not largely useful is against boss fights like the Eidolons and the aforementioned Hemocyte.

 

38 minutes ago, kuciol said:

2nd of all you miss the point completely. This game is not about engaging, strategic combat and i play it because of it. You talk like everybody has already everything when in reality those that have are negligible percentage.  You wont ever get anything harder or complex then tridolon fight because its pointless to do such content for the very few that want it. 

There's a considerable space between a Dark-Souls or DMC style experience and W+M1 gameplay and T-bagging in the corner being some of our most effective strategies.

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2 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

There's a considerable space between a Dark-Souls or DMC style experience and W+M1 gameplay and T-bagging in the corner being some of our most effective strategies.

Yes in other games. Funny how you bring Dark Souls that has exactly the same problem as Warframe when it comes to combat. First few times its hard and all but after a while you will do deathless run very easily. I did in all 3, even got a ring in DS2, hell i bet i could do it again after not playing it for few years because now i understand how the game works and plays. Warframe is the same way, nothing will be hard for you ever again, deal with it. The fact that "you can" doesnt mean the game is to easy. It is casual game, big, complex but still casual, once you learn it it is easy.

3 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Unlike most other beam weapons (except for another favourite - the Amprex) the Ignis Wraith has considerable AoE potential as it innately deals damage within 3 metres, and has the larget beam thickness. Most beam weapons are single-target, which makes up most of their weaknesses. Despite this, it deals the 4th highest damage (the fifth being the regular variant). Despite this, it also has the 4th highest crit chance and status chance and second highest crit damage, with the status chance being lower than the Quanta Vandal by 1%. This means that it is competitive in the beam weapon's primary role - single-target damage - and as an AoE damage dealer. Due to its high status chance, it can be built to be extremely effective against any faction, as it can strip armour very effectively and still have heat damage (which notably deals bonus damage to Grineer), Gas damage which it will maximise due to its AoE properties enabling it to deal with Corpus very easily, and with Corrosive/Heat, deals boosted damage to all infested except Hemocyte.

And nobody cares because it doesnt feel good to use in many situations because of range and low burst dmg. It can be the best in its class but still there are more usefull weapons. There is a reason why its very common but not "be all end all". Status and striping armor is pointless when you can end fool in 1 shot with kitgun or other plasmor.

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6 minutes ago, kuciol said:

And nobody cares because it doesnt feel good to use in many situations because of range and low burst dmg. It can be the best in its class but still there are more usefull weapons. There is a reason why its very common but not "be all end all". Status and striping armor is pointless when you can end fool in 1 shot with kitgun or other plasmor.

You do realise that's the whole point of my argument? That the Ignis Wraith and stuff like it feels bad to use. Not because of minor numerical issues but because of its design.

My point is that items like the Ignis Wraith aren't interesting.

Stuff that effectively plays the game for you, and gets you all the loot and stuff aren't FUN. They don't engineer the gameplay scenarios that people who come to a fast-paced action ninja game are most likely coming for. They go against the gameplay loop. But since they're as or more effective than other options like Sniper Rifles or conventional Shotguns, or CC or whatever, that's what gets used.

Believe me, I have my issues with the Plasmor line for similar reasons, but they're definitely on the very low end of that spectrum. The fact of the matter is, a lot of people come to this game for either the fast-paced, ninja action, or for the interesting buildcraft and freedom of choice to think around and try make any weapon viable if you try hard enough. The Ignis Wraith and its ilk sit as a stain in that - things that aren't that but are more effective and efficient than that.

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22 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

You do realise that's the whole point of my argument? That the Ignis Wraith and stuff like it feels bad to use. Not because of minor numerical issues but because of its design.

My point is that items like the Ignis Wraith aren't interesting.

Stuff that effectively plays the game for you, and gets you all the loot and stuff aren't FUN. They don't engineer the gameplay scenarios that people who come to a fast-paced action ninja game are most likely coming for. They go against the gameplay loop. But since they're as or more effective than other options like Sniper Rifles or conventional Shotguns, or CC or whatever, that's what gets used.

Believe me, I have my issues with the Plasmor line for similar reasons, but they're definitely on the very low end of that spectrum. The fact of the matter is, a lot of people come to this game for either the fast-paced, ninja action, or for the interesting buildcraft and freedom of choice to think around and try make any weapon viable if you try hard enough. The Ignis Wraith and its ilk sit as a stain in that - things that aren't that but are more effective and efficient than that.

They arent interesting for you, they are interesting and most importantly usefull for a lot of people, thats why they are so commonly seen. Let me tell you something with who you are dealing with here. I in my entire life played only following shooter :  Borderlands 1 and 2, Mass Effetct 1,2 and 3 and Warframe. I suck at actual shooting part, those games didnt force me to be good at it, you want to change it. Thats the entire reason i play this game and not Arma or other battlefield. Because it is easy and lets me do low effort killing. You want to  take that away because you are bored of the game, of course i will object. You always have the option to not use those weapons but they should be here for those who want to use them. Stop trying to make the game hard for your own sake, nobody besides a handful of vets wants that.

Edited by kuciol
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46 minutes ago, kuciol said:

They arent interesting for you, they are interesting and most importantly usefull for a lot of people, thats why they are so commonly seen. Let me tell you something with who you are dealing with here. I in my entire life played only following shooter :  Borderlands 1 and 2, Mass Effetct 1,2 and 3 and Warframe. I suck at actual shooting part, those games didnt force me to be good at it, you want to change it. Thats the entire reason i play this game and not Arma or other battlefield. Because it is easy and lets me do low effort killing. You want to  take that away because you are bored of the game, of course i will object. You always have the option to not use those weapons but they should be here for those who want to use them. Stop trying to make the game hard for your own sake, nobody besides a handful of vets wants that.

Fun fact - the only shooters aside from Warframe I played before Warframe was Kid Icarus Uprising and a level in Jedi Academy. I'm not exactly a Cleric. And again - there is a world of difference between super-intense shooting and pushing one button to win. The Tigris Prime is fine by me and that's not exactly a 300 IQ weapon. The Plasmor series sits in a grey area IMO, but they're much better.

 

And, no, having the option to not use the weapons doesn't help. As I mentioned before - being able to acquire resources extremely efficiently leads to hyperinflation. Being able to beat combat encounters without effort out the gate due to weapons being one-size-fits-all leads to that content being more disposable. These have markedly negative effects - mostly in the primary point of 'content doesn't last long enough'. This means DE must design around that. This means that, if such means are allowed to flourish, the entire playerbase is affected by them.

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25 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Fun fact - the only shooters aside from Warframe I played before Warframe was Kid Icarus Uprising and a level in Jedi Academy. I'm not exactly a Cleric. And again - there is a world of difference between super-intense shooting and pushing one button to win. The Tigris Prime is fine by me and that's not exactly a 300 IQ weapon. The Plasmor series sits in a grey area IMO, but they're much better.

 

And, no, having the option to not use the weapons doesn't help. As I mentioned before - being able to acquire resources extremely efficiently leads to hyperinflation. Being able to beat combat encounters without effort out the gate due to weapons being one-size-fits-all leads to that content being more disposable. These have markedly negative effects - mostly in the primary point of 'content doesn't last long enough'. This means DE must design around that. This means that, if such means are allowed to flourish, the entire playerbase is affected by them.

Players sit in here for how many years? Saying content doesnt last long is just stupid. Again you want to change game into something it was never meant to be. DE keeps making such things because thats what majority wants. It just works while every attempt at something more engaging was a giant flop. Your idea of "fun" just doesnt fit. You keep saying how there is room between this and that while keeping blind eye to the fact that we are in that spot.

 

Edited by kuciol
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1 minute ago, kuciol said:

Players sit in here for how many years? Saying content doesnt last long is just stupid. Again you want to change game into something it was never meant to be. DE keeps making such things because thats what majority wants. It just works while every attempt at something more engaging was a giant flop. Your idea of "fun" just doesnt fit.

And here we go again. Back round the circle.

Evidently, people are feeling bored with the game despite having not experienced all its content. That's literally the take-away from the OP. That's the core point I wanted to make when I brought up those games to begin with. Those games have managed to achieve much more engagement time than content time. These games are downright legendary. And their excellent gameplay loop is a big part of that. Those games also tend to stray away from such one-size-fits-all strategies - as I said before, Metal Blade is a meme for how broken it is - so, logically, approaching Warframe with a similar mindset, tooled to its specific needs, should help alleviate that issue.

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7 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

And here we go again. Back round the circle.

Evidently, people are feeling bored with the game despite having not experienced all its content. That's literally the take-away from the OP. That's the core point I wanted to make when I brought up those games to begin with. Those games have managed to achieve much more engagement time than content time. These games are downright legendary. And their excellent gameplay loop is a big part of that. Those games also tend to stray away from such one-size-fits-all strategies - as I said before, Metal Blade is a meme for how broken it is - so, logically, approaching Warframe with a similar mindset, tooled to its specific needs, should help alleviate that issue.

You cant please everyone, its just not his kind of game. Stop trying to fix something that isnt broken, i would be playing destiny if I wanted this kind of gameplay like you are describing. Individuals are getting bored and vets with messiah complex try to save the game. Thats all there is to it. I dont want your kind of game. I hope thats clear enough. Also games you brought up are in no way relevant.

Edited by kuciol
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5 minutes ago, kuciol said:

You cant please everyone, its just not his kind of game. Stop trying to fix something that isnt broken, i would be playing destiny if I wanted this kind of gameplay like you are describing. Individuals are getting bored and vets with messiah complex try to save the game. Thats all there is to it. I dont want your kind of game. I hope thats clear enough.

So, let me get this straight.

You don't want it. Therefore, it's wrong?

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12 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

So, let me get this straight.

You don't want it. Therefore, it's wrong?

Yes. You want to change main aspect of why ive chosen warframe over Destiny (I got it for free). Majority feels the same way. Clearly DE also feels that way. 

 

Edit: isnt that like your whole argument? You dont like gameplay so its bad? Im pretty sure it is.

Edited by kuciol
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