Inaros Rework - Easy Changes

[Xzorn]

This is really simple stuff honestly. I'm mostly removing arbitrary caps or unaffected functions of his abilities and improving their interaction.

• Desiccation: It's fine. Augment will be changed by other mechanics mentioned later and a little synergy.
• Devour:  Now deals 5% of combined maximum Shields/Health per second as True damage. If Inaros Consumes the enemy this damage ramps up to 15% per second over 1.5 seconds while Inaros Devours the enemy and will maintain it's altered value of damage if he stops. All players are still immune during the Consume Animation.
  • If an enemy dies while under the effects of Devour a Sand Shadow will be created regardless if Inaros used the Consume function of this ability. This means gunfire and other sources of damage will create a Sand Shadow.
  • Sand Shadows: Now last 15 seconds affected by Ability Duration. A maximum of 5 Shadows can be active at one time.
  • Inaros can now hold to pull any previous enemies Devour is currently active on.
  • Synergy: Devoured enemies within Sand Storm's radius ramp to maximum 15% damage per tick as if Inaros were Consuming them.
• Sand Storm: Now has a base 50% Status chance. Damage and ticks per second are affected by Ability Strength. Tornado will pull enemies inward and attempt to hold them closer similar to how Zephyr's Tornadoes have been changed. Movement speed reduction is now 25% from 50% and affected by Ability Strength.
  • Enemies affected by Devour will be drained of life healing Inaros based on 25% the Damage done by Sand Storm. Not Devour itself.
  • Augment Change: Equipped Melee mods now also affect Sand Storms damage tick speed.
  • Enemies affected by Devour will not leave the ground during Sand Storm.
  • Inaros can pull enemies under the effects of Devour to himself during Sand Storm.
  • Y Axis aim has been improved to look in all directions without restriction.
• Scarab Swam: Now has a base 50% Corrosive Status chance affected by Ability Strength. Scarab Spread range from afflicted targets is no longer capped and affected by Ability Range with a base value of 8m up from 5m. Charging Scarab armor will now ramp in speed to 150% over 1.5 seconds and can no longer be overcharged as it will automatically stop. Channeling this ability continues to make Inaros immune to Knockdown and stagger but does not prevent movement. 
  • Blinded enemies now take stealth bonus damage from Scarabs.
  • Scarabs now deal damage every half second instead of every second. (100 base)
  • Casting Scarab Swarm will no longer prevent movement (Think this was fixed with the mid air casting anyways?)
  • Sand Shadows can become carriers of Scarab Swarm; infecting enemies within range.

Just some stuff off the top of my head I've been meaning to get out there. I'm sure more could be improved.

My goal was to mostly make these abilities worth casting at the very least. Not required. Just worth it.

 

Edited August 16, 2019 by Xzorn

[toxic_degenerate]

I like the idea of devours damage ramping up! but would it be more fun if you could use desiccation (pocket sannnd) and then use devour on a now blinded group of enemies and eat them all, so it would kinda be cc but would also support the team

[Xzorn]

1 hour ago, toxic_degenerate said:

I like the idea of devours damage ramping up! but would it be more fun if you could use desiccation (pocket sannnd) and then use devour on a now blinded group of enemies and eat them all, so it would kinda be cc but would also support the team

 

Conceptually I was trying to improve his current group healing method with Scarab Swarm by making them easier to spread, giving them Corrosive status chance to ramp into armored enemies and making them tick faster to get through that Armor. Blind also plays into this since the Scarabs will gain the x8 Blind damage bonus. His Sand Shadows created by Devour or his augmented 1st ability will also carry Scarabs to infect other enemies.

All 4 of his abilities can play together in that scenario to give out massive group regen if he wants.

Might actually be too much but nothing a lil number tweaking can't fix. The best part is nothing is forced.

[Awazx]

Do not touch Inaros.

Edited: After analyzing it, your ideas make Inaros better. +1

Edited August 16, 2019 by Awazx

[Azamagon]

Few thoughts:

Devour - Allow him to do the pull-in effect (holdcast Devour, that is), on enemies that have previously been tapcast on (just QoL, really).

Sandstorm - Allow him to cast his abilities during its effect so it's more interactive. Also, why make him even slower? I'd prefer him to be made faster. Also, I think it's better to leave it as a utility-ability (tankiness, gather enemies, auto-Devour enemies, potentially move faster) at base, while the augment is what makes it a DPS-ability. Or sure, make it a DPS-ability at base, but then the augment should add some nice utility instead.

Scarab Swarm - I love the idea of Sand Shadows being able to spread the Scarabs! Only problem is... the scaling (10m base and range-moddable) would make this absolutely insane in terms of CC. I'd rather keep the spread range kinda low (like, up it to 6-8 meters at base, and make the range-modding scale much weaker, similar to Vauban's Vortex), but make Sand Shadows always spawn disarmed so they run up to enemies and spread the Scarabs more easily that way.

Edited August 16, 2019 by Azamagon

[Xzorn]

5 hours ago, Azamagon said:

Few thoughts:

Devour - Allow him to do the pull-in effect (holdcast Devour, that is), on enemies that have previously been tapcast on (just QoL, really).

Sandstorm - Allow him to cast his abilities during its effect so it's more interactive. Also, why make him even slower? I'd prefer him to be made faster. Also, I think it's better to leave it as a utility-ability (tankiness, gather enemies, auto-Devour enemies, potentially move faster) at base, while the augment is what makes it a DPS-ability. Or sure, make it a DPS-ability at base, but then the augment should add some nice utility instead.

Scarab Swarm - I love the idea of Sand Shadows being able to spread the Scarabs! Only problem is... the scaling (10m base and range-moddable) would make this absolutely insane in terms of CC. I'd rather keep the spread range kinda low (like, up it to 6-8 meters at base, and make the range-modding scale much weaker, similar to Vauban's Vortex), but make Sand Shadows always spawn disarmed so they run up to enemies and spread the Scarabs more easily that way.

 

Yea, that's a good QoL being able to pull previous enemies instead of choosing on the spot.

The Sand Storm movement is a wording mistake on my part. I mean "Reduced to 75%" ie Made him faster at base affected by mods. I originally had thought about adding the ability to cast Devour in Sand Storm but it reminded me a Hydroid puddle and realized he wouldn't technically have to ever leave that mode Solo.

-Added the ability to allow Inaros to pull Devoured enemies during a Sand Storm.

I agree the CC might be a bit crazy. Nothing some number tweaks can't fix. I like the idea of melee mummy-like Shadows. Spread the mummy rot!

Edited August 16, 2019 by Xzorn

[m0b1us1]

While Inaros is by far my most played and favorite frame, it is a horrible idea to buff one of the strongest frames in the game. He does not need any buffs, only QoL changes like making it easier for allies to know when a target is affected by 2 vs 4, and a timer for 4 CC instead of showing the armor buff in 2 locations.

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

1 hour ago, m0b1us1 said:

While Inaros is by far my most played and favorite frame, it is a horrible idea to buff one of the strongest frames in the game. He does not need any buffs, only QoL changes like making it easier for allies to know when a target is affected by 2 vs 4, and a timer for 4 CC instead of showing the armor buff in 2 locations.

Strongest? Lol, Inaros is not even at the top 3 tanks, and he is designed to tank. 

 

[m0b1us1]

On 2019-08-16 at 1:32 PM, (XB1)XG1anBl4derX said:

Strongest? Lol, Inaros is not even at the top 3 tanks, and he is designed to tank. 

 

Says who? The last time I went down as inaros was in a 2 hr long arbitration where we outlasted a nidus and chroma. Even then I went down from somehow getting a slash proc through negation swarm and holding 4 revive orbs trying to save the nidus. 

Take it from someone who has played this game for years, inaros is easily in the top 3 frames overall. In the realm of tanking? Still top 2. Haven't really had the chance to put the reworked wukong through his paces yet though but initial thoughts have wukong trading bulk for power. 

Nidus can definitely be tankier than inaros. Who do you think is a better tank and tell us your builds. If this is your main account, at not even 2 months old, it would be interesting to see what you think.

[Nezorus]

@m0b1us1 That's mostly due to his health and aug for his 4 alone sadly. His passive doesn't hold out and his 3 is pretty trash. I do say he needs some tweaks to some abilities. Maybe give him something that makes him pull aggro. 

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

1 hour ago, m0b1us1 said:

Says who? The last time I went down as inaros was in a 2 hr long arbitration where we outlasted a nidus and chroma. Even then I went down from somehow getting a slash proc through negation swarm and holding 4 revive orbs trying to save the nidus. 

Take it from someone who has played this game for years, inaros is easily in the top 3 frames overall. In the realm of tanking? Still top 2. Haven't really had the chance to put the reworked wukong through his paces yet though but initial thoughts have wukong trading bulk for power. 

Nidus can definitely be tankier than inaros. Who do you think is a better tank and tell us your builds. If this is your main account, at not even 2 months old, it would be interesting to see what you think.

Nidus can reach 1kk EHP (this is source from my calculations, and also from the OP, what a coincidence right? You can just ask to him, i'm not joking). 

Trinity can reach 1,8kk EHP (also source from the OP). 

Rhino can reach 1kk Iron Skin and be immune to all statuses, with no duration at all (also, instant regeneration). 

My build is for Rhino (also, a build that the OP suggested, but i made my changes) : Steel charge, Power Drift, Steel Fiber, Transient Fortitude, Blind Rage, Intensify, Health Conversion (essential), Ironclad Charge (essential), Flow, Iron Shrapnel (essential). (No arcanes because i don't have useful ones for him) 

Sentinel (EXTREMELY NECESSARY): Synth Deconstruct, Synth Fiber. 

How you'll use: 

1- Start the mission casting IS (Iron Skin). 

2- Get some Energy. 

3- Kill things (after) your sentinel hit them. 

4- This will make them have 25% chance to drop Health Orbs due to Synth Fiber/Deconstruct. 

5- You'll be able to pick the Health Orb even though you're full health. 

6- Stack 3 times, now you have 1350 extra armor (this armor gets affected by Ironclad Charge). 

7- Health Conversion stacks don't go out unless you take damage, but damage on IS doesn't count. Extra 1350 armor for days baby. 

8- Charge through 4-6 enemies (easy pizy). 

9- Between 100-150k Iron Skin. 

10- ?????¿¿¿¿¿ 

11- Enjoy  

Inaros can't reach even 500k EHP as far as i know, just search for all calculations, your experience doesn't count when it comes to these matters. That Nidus? Probably using a trash build or he just forgot to put Parasitic Link (i bet on that one), that doesn't mean you tank more than him. 

On a matter of fact, Nidus could survive 1 million damage, Inaros...wouldn't. 

About the Rhino build, just search for "Rhino tank build" and you'll see eventually a thumbnail with "1 million". Just click and see the magic. 

About Trinity though, OP source. I never got into her at all, but she is at top 3 as far as i know.

 

Edited August 18, 2019 by (XB1)XG1anBl4derX

[Xzorn]

Nothing I suggested really makes Inaros more tanky. It mostly adds group value and alternatives to spamming his 1 and knifing enemies.

The active layer of Sand Storm to spread Scarabs is already there. It just doesn't work well. I added the interaction of Devour to make Sand Storm more appealing but it's no stronger than his 1st + Dagger. It essentially allows Inaros to CL dagger a few enemies over time while not having to use a CL dagger which gives him more options. Sand Shadows are pretty much a pointless mechanic for him due to their duration cap so I lifted that and added iteration with Scarabs.

I wanted to touch on his dying passive because it gets out scaled but I think it might require more work than just some basic iterations. If it scales off % values then it never stops and Inaros never dies for real. If it's set damage values then it always ends up getting out scaled. Need something in the middle of those options...

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

16 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

Nothing I suggested really makes Inaros more tanky. It mostly adds group value and alternatives to spamming his 1 and knifing enemies.

The active layer of Sand Storm to spread Scarabs is already there. It just doesn't work well. I added the interaction of Devour to make Sand Storm more appealing but it's no stronger than his 1st + Dagger. It essentially allows Inaros to CL dagger a few enemies over time while not having to use a CL dagger which gives him more options. Sand Shadows are pretty much a pointless mechanic for him due to their duration cap so I lifted that and added iteration with Scarabs.

I wanted to touch on his dying passive because it gets out scaled but I think it might require more work than just some basic iterations. If it scales off % values then it never stops and Inaros never dies for real. If it's set damage values then it always ends up getting out scaled. Need something in the middle of those options...

To be honest, i really wish Scarab Swarm armor increase was higher, and multiplicative. Like, it increases 200% (after mods). 

He won't become invincible or anything, i wouldn't even bet he gets close to the top tanks. But just makes him less vulnerable to burst damage in general, because he has to rely on regeneration to negate damage income.

Edited August 18, 2019 by (XB1)XG1anBl4derX

[Shaburanigud]

Great changes, but I still think his 3 would suffer from Inaros' low energy pool.

In lore he used it until he died. So why not in-game too?
Let sandstorm drain his health. And the lower health he has while channeling it, he gains more range, speed, damage ticks per seconds and visually becomes bigger too.

It would be awesome.

 

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

3 hours ago, Shaburanigud said:

Great changes, but I still think his 3 would suffer from Inaros' low energy pool.

In lore he used it until he died. So why not in-game too?
Let sandstorm drain his health. And the lower health he has while channeling it, he gains more range, speed, damage ticks per seconds and visually becomes bigger too.

It would be awesome.

 

Maybe not that awesome. Because 2 problems could come from it: 

1- If the skill is not strong enough (at low health), with very high damage and range. It's not worth using. So it goes back to state 0. 

2- If it is in fact strong, it will be nerfed. Because people will (of course) ask for a nerf in the end, look at Saryn, that girl can't sleep peacefully.

[Shaburanigud]

2 hours ago, (XB1)XG1anBl4derX said:

Maybe not that awesome. Because 2 problems could come from it: 

1- If the skill is not strong enough (at low health), with very high damage and range. It's not worth using. So it goes back to state 0. 

2- If it is in fact strong, it will be nerfed. Because people will (of course) ask for a nerf in the end, look at Saryn, that girl can't sleep peacefully.

Hmm I think it more as a CC so to be honest, I wouldn't really mind if only the range and movement speed would increase.
I mean, How bad can it be? And if this drains health and possibly kills Inaros. I think people will mostly use the 'Strong' version to a very last resort or at the risk of killing oneself.

But thats just my 2 cents. Really wish we could push that Egyptian Mummy fantasy a bit harder.

[m0b1us1]

On 2019-08-18 at 2:22 AM, Nezorus said:

@m0b1us1 That's mostly due to his health and aug for his 4 alone sadly. His passive doesn't hold out and his 3 is pretty trash. I do say he needs some tweaks to some abilities. Maybe give him something that makes him pull aggro. 

 Actually his passive is quite strong, it just does a horrid job fully explaining it.

His passive, while giving you a laser, is more about "marking" enemies. When you go down, all enemies within a 14m radius are "marked" by sand. This looks like the same effect as your 2, but does not CC, unless you mark and pull an enemy with the laser. If any marked target takes ANY sort of damage, it will count towards your revive. This also works with your 4 cc. So if you somehow manage to go down, your ally can simply deal a bit of damage and instantly revive you. Or you can shoot off your 4 right before you go down and the damage from that will also revive you.

3 is just too costly for what it does. Paired with your 4, it acts as a way to mass spread your 4 cc. Hit a group with 4, use 3 to scatter them all over. Now you have vastly increased the area of your 4. However it costs a ton of energy, 25 for 4 blast and 75 just to start 3. Also the meta right now is all about kps. So with a team, you almost will never be able to benefit from that combo. However in the past with raids like NMLoR where CC was king, I used this very combo to lock down huge areas for a solid minute at a time. Which in warframe time is quite long.

I think you just want him to be more like a nidus. And let's not kid ourselves, nidus is amazing all around and imo the best overall wf. But that isn't inaros. Inaros is great not because of his damage or synergies in his kit, he is amazing because what he gives you the freedom to do. Want to use a "non-meta" melee or any weapon? Inaros gives you the ability to use it and not worry about much else. Nidus has to worry about stacks, wukong has to worry about his new defy, chroma has to worry about vex armor, ash/Loki need stealth, saryn needs spores, etc etc. A fully built Inaros with arcane graces and negation swarm? Nothing. He can solo any content in the game easy and is one of the few frames you can so multihour long survival with, though if you want to go for crazy long you have to use an odd build.

I'm just saying this from experience, but inaros is far stronger than an average player would expect. Veteran players don't doubt his position as a top tier frame overall.

[(XBOX)AMONGTHEWEAK]

18 hours ago, Shaburanigud said:

Great changes, but I still think his 3 would suffer from Inaros' low energy pool.

In lore he used it until he died. So why not in-game too?
Let sandstorm drain his health. And the lower health he has while channeling it, he gains more range, speed, damage ticks per seconds and visually becomes bigger too.

It would be awesome.

 

That would be cool, if sandstorm drained from his health rather than his energy pool. 

[Xzorn]

11 hours ago, m0b1us1 said:

If any marked target takes ANY sort of damage, it will count towards your revive. This also works with your 4 cc. So if you somehow manage to go down, your ally can simply deal a bit of damage and instantly revive you. Or you can shoot off your 4 right before you go down and the damage from that will also revive you.

 

That's why it's not very good though.

For any other frame your team could just revive you as normal and yet Solo it stops working because it's a set damage value on % of health value.

Not to mention a normal frame can move and shoot while downed making them considerably more effective. The mechanics are just very short sighted.

Thankfully his %Life Steal on Finishers portion is more than most passives because last time I did a Solo run with him I didn't use the dying portion even once.

[Shaburanigud]

1 hour ago, Xzorn said:

 

That's why it's not very good though.

For any other frame your team could just revive you as normal and yet Solo it stops working because it's a set damage value on % of health value.

Not to mention a normal frame can move and shoot while downed making them considerably more effective. The mechanics are just very short sighted.

Thankfully his %Life Steal on Finishers portion is more than most passives because last time I did a Solo run with him I didn't use the dying portion even once.

Come to think of it, why not allow him to apply his secondary mods to his sarcophagus while he's down?
The damage of Sarcophagus isn't that much anyway, so if his secondary mods apply to him while he's down, it might actually help him a lot.

Not too much since it'll probably have almost no status proc nor crit chance, but the pure damage buff itself would make it a bit more useful then it is now.

 

But yeah, his passive is mostly about the healing on finishers thing. Everything else including his sarcophagus is just a bonus.

[m0b1us1]

On 2019-08-20 at 2:29 AM, Xzorn said:

 

That's why it's not very good though.

For any other frame your team could just revive you as normal and yet Solo it stops working because it's a set damage value on % of health value.

Not to mention a normal frame can move and shoot while downed making them considerably more effective. The mechanics are just very short sighted.

Thankfully his %Life Steal on Finishers portion is more than most passives because last time I did a Solo run with him I didn't use the dying portion even once.

 

It's not easy, but it can be good. It just requires a large amount of time invested before you can use it reliably.

Any other frame, without the vazarin focus school, can't be revived instantly. And if you do go down, at a certain point some frames simply can't last that long without some form of defense. Also while the wiki might claim %HP, I think there might be more to it. Because I have managed a few times to revive despite not apparently hitting that %HP mark.For the most part you are right though. I think there just might be some weird spaghetti code there. I haven't done too much testing though as the only way I can reliable test it is by forcing myself in a down state with something like a rivend zarr against a bunch of level 165 corrupted gunners (not corpus techs because I try to test on armored targets). My guess is that it also has an EHP mark it looks to hit, though I haven't really been able to determine that or not.

Also a frame that doesn't have a fear of going down until level 300+ is far more effective than a downed frame at 200. Also a frame that a team can insta-revive from as far as they want without taking time to manually revive them is far more effective than one frame stuck using a secondary and another standing there reviving.

See that is an incredibly entry way to play him. Also its not %life steal on finishers. You heal for 25% of your max HP whenever you get a finisher kill. So you have to get the kill. I haven't needed to use a finisher to regain HP anything below 200. This is because Inaros, with arcane grace, has an absurdly high EHP regen. I think the last time I ever purposefully used the finisher kill regen was when I was in a sortie survival mission with the fire condition, thus lowering max HP and regen.

Now it just might be me, but usually when someone talks like that it usually means that they haven't really given him enough time. What was your build with Inaros to feel the need to have to use finishers to regen? Most Inaros mains don't rely on that because it takes too long. Even without arcane grace its much faster just to expend some of your 4 cause it heals starting on the very first proc.

[Xzorn]

11 hours ago, m0b1us1 said:

Now it just might be me, but usually when someone talks like that it usually means that they haven't really given him enough time. What was your build with Inaros to feel the need to have to use finishers to regen? Most Inaros mains don't rely on that because it takes too long. Even without arcane grace its much faster just to expend some of your 4 cause it heals starting on the very first proc.

 

I didn't rely on it at all last I pushed him. It's just better than most passives. ie Nova / Rhino.

My longest run was Lvl 800 Solo MoT. I only used Vitality for defense and a CL Dagger with Energize spamming Blind complimented with a Viral + Rad Ignis to shoot rad blinded enemies and distract Nully's from shooting me while hiding around a corner.

Scales better than any Defensive means he has muster outside Trickery x2 but I tend to avoid Invisibility runs. It was incredibly lame through and that's pretty much Inaros in a nutshell; pressing 1 over and over with a melee weapon once his eHP can't hold up. That's my main goal to fix here for all level ranges.

[m0b1us1]

15 hours ago, Xzorn said:

 

I didn't rely on it at all last I pushed him. It's just better than most passives. ie Nova / Rhino.

My longest run was Lvl 800 Solo MoT. I only used Vitality for defense and a CL Dagger with Energize spamming Blind complimented with a Viral + Rad Ignis to shoot rad blinded enemies and distract Nully's from shooting me while hiding around a corner.

Scales better than any Defensive means he has muster outside Trickery x2 but I tend to avoid Invisibility runs. It was incredibly lame through and that's pretty much Inaros in a nutshell; pressing 1 over and over with a melee weapon once his eHP can't hold up. That's my main goal to fix here for all level ranges.

Usually for that I prefer 1 energize and trickery. Once you start hitting those levels then the 25% heal on finishers really has no value as the damage per shot is too high. While it is an OK passive, its worth nothing for endurance runs where tanking damage simply isn't an option. If you didn't rely on it, and you did go to that level, then you must realize that its worthless in your case right?

Remember, at those points, you have to rely on either invisibility or death gates. The single best warframe for long term survival like that is Ivara. 1 ability, CL, and 2 sets of arcane energize and you are good to go for however long you wish. Or you just ran naramon focus school, threw on a crit melee and went to town before it was changed. Either way you had to avoid damage at a certain point if you were going solo.

See thats the issue, his EHP before adaptation was amazing, and after it still is. Only Chroma back when vex armor and ice element could reach such high EHPs or Trin with 99% DR. I think using eternal prowl Ivara is incredibly lame, but I am not going to use my purely subjective opinion to try to argue for an Ivara buff. She is a strong frame, Inaros is a strong frame. The likes or dislikes of an individual do not provide sufficient reason to call for a change.

So why Inaros if that is your goal? Out of all the frames there are, Inaros has at least 1 way to go that far. How many frames can truly and reliably go that far into solo mot? The longest Nidus run I have seen was about 7 hours. Did you know what good his EHP did? It was worthless. Every time he took damage from an enemy, it would instantly drain 15 stacks of his passive. At that point, enemy HP scaling is so absurd that the only reliable way he had to kill enemies was by using an octavia specter since they scale with enemy level. If you are saying that you are trying to balance Inaros because his method of survival in endurance runs in a damage boosted mot against level 800 enemies is boring to you, I find that incredibly short sighted. Why don't you try to balance Frost, Atlas, or Trin for that level? Sure, when trin could reach 99% DR she could reach extreme levels of EHP, but she can't now with 75% DR (about the same as having 900 armor) and she has no reliable way to quickly deal damage if you are running tank because HP scaling. Chroma ever since the vex armor nerf has a mere fraction of his old EHP and no way to prevent enemies from damaging him or stunning them.

I don't buy your claim that you are trying to make him "better" at all levels. It seems to me you are trying to think of a scenario to justify your proposed changes. That is such an extreme that the vast majority of players will never even attempt to reach. If your goal is to fix frames for all level ranges, there are a ton of others who need far more help than Inaros. I will gladly admit there are many other frames who are stronger than Inaros at doing 8 hour runs, but a frame should be changed because of that alone! My point still stands, Inaros is one of the overall strongest frames in the game and needs no help. A simple straight up tank build can clear everything the star chart, sorties, and 3 hr arbitrations has to offer.

If I understand you, you are wanting a change because there are frames that you find subjectively more fun than Inaros against level 800 mot enemies because you have to use a cheese build. Is that correct?

[Shaburanigud]

27 minutes ago, m0b1us1 said:

Usually for that I prefer 1 energize and trickery. Once you start hitting those levels then the 25% heal on finishers really has no value as the damage per shot is too high. While it is an OK passive, its worth nothing for endurance runs where tanking damage simply isn't an option. If you didn't rely on it, and you did go to that level, then you must realize that its worthless in your case right?

Remember, at those points, you have to rely on either invisibility or death gates. The single best warframe for long term survival like that is Ivara. 1 ability, CL, and 2 sets of arcane energize and you are good to go for however long you wish. Or you just ran naramon focus school, threw on a crit melee and went to town before it was changed. Either way you had to avoid damage at a certain point if you were going solo.

See thats the issue, his EHP before adaptation was amazing, and after it still is. Only Chroma back when vex armor and ice element could reach such high EHPs or Trin with 99% DR. I think using eternal prowl Ivara is incredibly lame, but I am not going to use my purely subjective opinion to try to argue for an Ivara buff. She is a strong frame, Inaros is a strong frame. The likes or dislikes of an individual do not provide sufficient reason to call for a change.

So why Inaros if that is your goal? Out of all the frames there are, Inaros has at least 1 way to go that far. How many frames can truly and reliably go that far into solo mot? The longest Nidus run I have seen was about 7 hours. Did you know what good his EHP did? It was worthless. Every time he took damage from an enemy, it would instantly drain 15 stacks of his passive. At that point, enemy HP scaling is so absurd that the only reliable way he had to kill enemies was by using an octavia specter since they scale with enemy level. If you are saying that you are trying to balance Inaros because his method of survival in endurance runs in a damage boosted mot against level 800 enemies is boring to you, I find that incredibly short sighted. Why don't you try to balance Frost, Atlas, or Trin for that level? Sure, when trin could reach 99% DR she could reach extreme levels of EHP, but she can't now with 75% DR (about the same as having 900 armor) and she has no reliable way to quickly deal damage if you are running tank because HP scaling. Chroma ever since the vex armor nerf has a mere fraction of his old EHP and no way to prevent enemies from damaging him or stunning them.

I don't buy your claim that you are trying to make him "better" at all levels. It seems to me you are trying to think of a scenario to justify your proposed changes. That is such an extreme that the vast majority of players will never even attempt to reach. If your goal is to fix frames for all level ranges, there are a ton of others who need far more help than Inaros. I will gladly admit there are many other frames who are stronger than Inaros at doing 8 hour runs, but a frame should be changed because of that alone! My point still stands, Inaros is one of the overall strongest frames in the game and needs no help. A simple straight up tank build can clear everything the star chart, sorties, and 3 hr arbitrations has to offer.

If I understand you, you are wanting a change because there are frames that you find subjectively more fun than Inaros against level 800 mot enemies because you have to use a cheese build. Is that correct?

I agree, Inaros truly is one of the strongest frames
But That doesn't mean he doesn't have his flaws. This thread doesn't claim he should get a rework before Ember/Frost/ or nay other less performing ones.

Wukong, while was very boring, statistically performed great before his rework since he was immortal as well.
Chroma, despite being popular for needing a rework, is still one of the strongest Dmg frames as well as one of the tankiest

Yes, a Frame shouldn't get reworked because "He isn't the strongest", but he should get a rework if there are flaws to fix. However minor.

And IMO, the flaws in Inaros is not minor.
As one of the most uninteractive frames, I do think he needs some improvements.
Especially when half of his kit is almost never seen in normal gameplay. And the other half he does uses is rarely noticed by his teammates if at all.

And thus, I suggest that Inaros does need some improvements and minor reworks. Preferably around when he gets his prime variant.

[Xzorn]

3 hours ago, m0b1us1 said:

Remember, at those points, you have to rely on either invisibility or death gates. The single best warframe for long term survival like that is Ivara. 1 ability, CL, and 2 sets of arcane energize and you are good to go for however long you wish. Or you just ran naramon focus school, threw on a crit melee and went to town before it was changed. Either way you had to avoid damage at a certain point if you were going solo.

See thats the issue, his EHP before adaptation was amazing, and after it still is. Only Chroma back when vex armor and ice element could reach such high EHPs or Trin with 99% DR. I think using eternal prowl Ivara is incredibly lame, but I am not going to use my purely subjective opinion to try to argue for an Ivara buff. She is a strong frame, Inaros is a strong frame. The likes or dislikes of an individual do not provide sufficient reason to call for a change.

 

Depends. Not all eHP is created equal.

Armor based eHP like Inaros is the least reliable. Nidus and Trinity can actually take lvl 800 bricks to the face. Not on MoT of course but with normal damage modifiers while Inaros gets killed by lvl 165 Nullifiers in 4 shots with 90% Adaptation thanks to Puncture double dips. Rhino by comparison can take 50 shots before Iron Skin drops. Inaros has very fast recovery but his eHP isn't very high. He doesn't deal with burst well and so after counting his eHP I just decided it was better to rely on his CC for a long run.

The choice of MoT was just because I went CC. It's like Volt on MoT vs a normal mission. Doesn't actually matter since he's not getting hit but looks more impressive. Chroma was actually kinda squishy even when Vex was Multiplicative since it was Armor based. Nidus came beefier out of the box. Of course Trinity and Rhino. Now both Chroma and Inaros get beaten by Trinity 188k, Rhino 120-200k, Nidus 100k, Baruuk 100k, Nekros 70k, Even though Gara and Nova sit about 40k similar to Inaros and lower than Chroma 66k but will deal with more burst since they're not Armor based DR. Of course all this is before Adaptation and if you wana push on MoT just throw down an Ancient Healer.

Pretty much all Invis frames can go lvl 800+ which is why I don't use Trickery or usually play Invis frames for endurance runs. A player should already know going in they're going to be there for 3 hours+ however Inaros without Invis I wasn't sure. So I tried it. That's pretty much why I do long runs. To see if something works. I'm mostly going through this explanation to show I've played Inaros enough, understand his limitations and I've pushed others to compare with. I'm not trying to make him stronger since if you play him specific ways he's pushing lvl 800 like I mentioned. It's more taking that into consideration and allowing him more options.

Most players are fine with how tanky Inaros is and I don't mind because he still scales with CC. My goal is to improve the rather limited kit he has.