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evilChair

long-shot lotus helmet theory time [whole story spoilers]

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Posted (edited)

The helmet holds Margulis' mental imprint. We know that Ballas had to send Margulis to the fancy laser canno- I mean, The Jade Light, but nothing in the lore (and let's face it, gaps in the lore are DE's manoeuvre-wiggleroom) precludes that she didn't have some kind of transference link implanted to the helmet in order to save her personality at the last moment, while she was being executed. And it would explain why Ballas had waited for so long -- he wanted the Margulis personality to imprint itself onto Natah firmly enough (well, he believed that it was firm enough) that she would finally become a surrogate body for Margulis-in-the-helmet. Which leads me to predict two outcomes for Natah in the new war:

A) We kill Natah and restore Margulis as a cephalon using the personality stored in the helmet (if I'm right and there is one in there), or

B) We revert the damage that Ballas has done by ramming the helmet back on her exposed CPU bank "head". And end up with a traumatised, distraught Lotus who doesn't know what to think about what she'd done and who has mood swings between Natah's calculating coldness and resentment towards the Tenno, and Margulis' unconditional love.

EDIT: I consider the Lotus, a composite personality, as being DEAD ever since Apostasy Prologue. At the moment there is no Lotus, no "space mom" to speak of unless there's a way to get Margulis out of the helmet and into Cephalon-space.

Edited by evilChair

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I think we won't get lotus back. We will probably end up killing Natah. And she will let us. Some of the Margulis imprint may be still there and in the finnal battle, the Margulis imprint will take over and we will have to kill her.

My hope is that Ordis will regain his memories and become Ordan again. The current Ordis is a bit annoying.

The imprint in the helmet however is a different story. She can be made a cephalon and giude us further with the assistance of the new and improved Ordan.

We would have a positive influencing force - Margulis and a "kill all orokin" force as Ordan. And this would be a nice way to revamp the invasions. Margulis says " hey, let's help the corpus kill all infested on that planet and you'll get nitain extract" and a second choice when Ordan intervenes " hey, forget that, kill the corpus and you'll get 2 tellurium"

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Personally, i think Margulius booby trapped the lotus helm to prevent anyone from harming the tenno i.e. having them kill one another.

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And to further add to the timeline, after we kill Natah, we feel sorrow, we feel ashamed and we just want our mommie back

So we put on the helmet just to remind ourselves of her....then.....we are stranded....on a low plain with a grey sky. Out in the distance, a ship. A very familliar ship. We KNOW that ship.

A noise. We turn and we see a horse. A horse with a dax rider. Where are we? The horse charges and we try to use our powers. But we can't....

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After seeing the Trailer in TNW in Tennocon, I dont think we will confront Natah for another 2 years.

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22 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

After seeing the Trailer in TNW in Tennocon, I dont think we will confront Natah for another 2 years.

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Posted (edited)

My bet is on something more dramatic happening. Or at least a much more dramatic way of implementing your two predicted outcome.

Given how much the writers are drawing attention to the helmet in:

1. During The Apostasy Prologue when the Lotus takes off the helmet. The camera avoids showing her face and instead does a close up follow of the helmet.

  • You could argue the writers just don't want to show us her face yet, but that doesn't contradict the above statement.
  • Also consider the reasoning behind the decision to do the above. This one is more speculative and has less evidential basis on the text, but one possibility is the suggestion that her face doesn't matter and that it is her helmet that we should pay attention to.

2. The helmet is then placed inside our personal quarters.

  • The Chimera Prologue shows us that there is significance in her helmet. It was able to give us a vision of Ballas and knowledge of the Paracesis. (At least I think its a vision atm, could be something else).
  • It remains in the above stated position ever since The Apostasy Prologue. Constantly reminding us of it by making it the first thing we see every time we enter our personal quarters.

Now, the reason I have some doubts about your predicted outcomes is because:

The attention drawing they did as described above. A lot of media literate people would quickly recognize the placing of Chekov's Gun and the suggestion that this is foreshadowing something. Given DE's history of (at least attempting) to subvert our narrative expectations or at least surprise us in Natah, The Second Dream, The War Within, and the development of the character Natah in the Sacrifice. It seems reasonable to suggest that the way the helmet will play into the future narrative will likely be something a bit less obvious.

There's also the suggestion from Tennocon where The New War will be about family, the family you chose or the family you're born with. Now, I don't personally want to speculate on this part, but here's some facts and questions that you may want to consider in your hypothesis:

  • The Lotus rejected Hunhow, if only because of the helmet (if we assume the significance of the helmet, which is not unreasonable given her immediate chance in attitude the moment the helmet is taken off).
  • Hunhow is in the cephalon weave the last time we saw him.
  • What is the familial structure of the sentients? What does it mean when Natah calls the sentient mothership "mother"?
  • The reason I bring up that last question is that this mother daughter relationship seems socially constructed and not "biological" which has interesting implications if we want to understand Sentient culture and society.

The last point above is because sentients reproduce by fission(something stated in the wiki, which I can't find citation for so I'm not particularly sure on this one), which makes it impossible for Natah to have two "biological" parent. Given how:

  • 1. In the Second Dream the Lotus indicates that he can invade her mind because Hunhow can influence any part of himself
  • 2. Hunhow refers to her as "the last of my womb"

It seems very likely that Hunhow is her "biological" parent.

Edited by veloSylraptor
clarity
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8 minutes ago, veloSylraptor said:
  • The last point above is because sentients reproduce by fission(something stated in the wiki, which I can't find citation for so I'm not particularly sure on this one), which makes it impossible for Natah to have two "biological" parent. Given how:
    • 1. In the Second Dream the Lotus indicates that he can invade her mind because Hunhow can influence any part of himself
    • 2. Hunhow refers to her as "the last of my womb"

On all points you're right, and especially this brings back the feeling that Hunhow will want to individualise Natah again, away from "Mother's" grasp. Which means having to step over his own resentments and ally himself with the Tenno. Which means bringing him Kuva, possibly. As for sentient reproduction, they're likely von Neumann machines, and Hunhow's "womb" is likely what we would call an "automated factory". Like the ones that the Corpus have on Neptune and Pluto (and which might be susceptible to sentient reprogrammings and takeovers).

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Just now, FerockQuartz said:

Hasn't anybody ever theorized about a Lotus Warframe?

could be what the helminth room bed is for, but then again, there's already saryn, who's more or less modelled on Margulis if i remember the lore right, so that's most likely a bust, as interesting as it would be.

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5 minutes ago, evilChair said:

could be what the helminth room bed is for, but then again, there's already saryn, who's more or less modelled on Margulis if i remember the lore right, so that's most likely a bust, as interesting as it would be.

I'm just intrigued with that Lotus Helm's future... a new WF Phase Lore would be incredible to see...

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My guess is that the New War sentients decide that Natah's amalgams are abominations, and add her to the list of things to be purified. She ends up semi-allied with us for survival. We don't get the Lotus back, unless it's as a Cephalon. (I kind of like that idea.)

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7 hours ago, evilChair said:

EDIT: I consider the Lotus, a composite personality, as being DEAD ever since Apostasy Prologue. At the moment there is no Lotus, no "space mom" to speak of unless there's a way to get Margulis out of the helmet and into Cephalon-space.

Let's just put her helmet on Hunhow and be done with him. Then Lotus will have a new and deeper voice.

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