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Titania improvements


Krenlik
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Everyone agrees, Razorwing is fun and powerful.

Tribute is a split decision, I like it but it's a pricy thing to keep up if you expect to ever need Razorwing.

Most people seem in agreement that Spellbind and Lantern are both lackluster even if you build for them.   Both could use an innate range increase for starters.

 

So, here ate a couple of suggestions for the lackluster abilities to make them a tad more useful:

 

Spellbind

If the Spellbind area includes a Tribute (marker not yet picked up), extract a Tribute from all enemies in the area.   This would make it easier and cheaper to keep multiple tributes running simultaneously and actually give people a reason to Spellbind.

 

Lantern

If you hold down 3 while targeting an existing Lantern pull the lantern toward you (like Inaros 2) at no cost.  This would solve the floating-away problem, and let you reposition a long-duration Lantern for better effect.

If you walk up to the Lantern and press X then shove the Lantern away from you in a horizontal plane.  (push it down a hallway, etc)  The longer you hold it, the faster/further it goes?

 

 

 

A useful passive would be the following:

Adds max 4 Razorflies to Titania's court.  (ie 10 max if in Razorwing mode)

Killing an enemy under the effect of Spellbind or Lantern generates one Razorfly.  If already at maximum, heal an injured razorfly fully and grant them Armor or significant shielding.

 

 

Thoughts?

Edited by Krenlik
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46 minutes ago, Krenlik said:

actually give people a reason to Spellbind

I think you're undervaluing the CC prowess this ability can provide on a high-Range build,
persistent Status immunity for the Squad also has its uses now and then.

Also, it's equal to Equinox' Rest as far as AoE goes, seems fair enough
(though the Squad buff part I wouldn't mind reaching a bit further).

55 minutes ago, Krenlik said:

Tribute

FWIW, these were my thoughts from a previous topic:

Quote

Hey, anyone else notice how Titania's Tribute literally punches the souls out of enemies?

So yeah, move that whole thing over to Nekros, bam, that fits right in with his support / tanking goodness
(and he'd finally have one ability that's working just fine without Augments, urgh those should really be innate, but, eh, different topic).

And of course, give Titania a really nifty replacement, heh. Not sure what exactly that should be,
although, how 'bout some kind of Razorfly-based protection similar to Amesha's Watchful Swarm?
Titania can certainly use some de-squishing and this not least could also have her 2 retain Squad protection prowess,
give it the hold-button-for-radial-application feature that Smite Infusion & co now have, drain Energy per ally hit.

But barring that, just make Tribute give you the buff without having to go and manually collect it
(which not least can be really iffy and not register you touching the "soul" especially when in Razorwing, urgh).

1 hour ago, Krenlik said:

Lantern [...] floating-away problem

Ah, I thought Lantern was supposed to be "anchored" now, is that not actually the case?

(TBH I kinda never use it since, enemy attention drawing being unreliable aside, last I checked it was once again bugged
and the enemy kept floating after the ability was detonated, also the detonation didn't seem to do damage either, yay).

But sure, some way to move it via the ability button rather than trying to maneuver it with weapon attacks, why not.

1 hour ago, Krenlik said:

Razorwing [...] Killing an enemy under the effect of Spellbind or Lantern generates one Razorfly.

Sounds neat.

A big improvement to the flow / feel of playing Titania though would IMO be to allow her to interact with consoles etc while in Razorwing.

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2 minutes ago, NinjaZeku said:

I think you're undervaluing the CC prowess this ability can provide on a high-Range build,
persistent Status immunity for the Squad also has its uses now and then. 

Also, it's equal to Equinox' Rest as far as AoE goes, seems fair enough
(though the Squad buff part I wouldn't mind reaching a bit further).

FWIW, these were my thoughts from a previous topic:

But barring that, just make Tribute give you the buff without having to go and manually collect it
(which not least can be really iffy and not register you touching the "soul" especially when in Razorwing, urgh).

Ah, I thought Lantern was supposed to be "anchored" now, is that not actually the case?

(TBH I kinda never use it since, enemy attention drawing being unreliable aside, last I checked it was once again bugged
and the enemy kept floating after the ability was detonated, also the detonation didn't seem to do damage either, yay).

But sure, some way to move it via the ability button rather than trying to maneuver it with weapon attacks, why not.

Sounds neat.

A big improvement to the flow / feel of playing Titania though would IMO be to allow her to interact with consoles etc while in Razorwing.

Well, perhaps part of the problem is that I'm comparing a base range Spellbind to a high-range Dessicate from Inaros.  Inaros rules and can immobilize big chunks of the battlefield.  He also doesn't have a problem then walking into the middle of it, destroying them, and healing himself with a cast.  Then he gets that energy back immediately by being shot at.

Titania just doesn't seem to have the mod slots for being able to get decent range unless you want to be CC only, and it's tough justifying spending the energy.  Hadn't really weighed the status immunity into it though... suppose you're right in that it could be useful.  I just rarely think about self-status effects at all.

 

The no damage on explosion thing is part of the low-range problem with Lantern.  The actual radius of DoT/Explosion damage is pretty tiny which is why I mentioned that the base range could use a buff.   Laterns still float away.  Maybe not as far as they used to (just got her recently) but far enough that it makes the damage aspect worse (horizontal radius becomes an angle radius... needs to be closer to take damage.)

 

I always assumed that the no consoles/lockers things was part of the intended tradeoff of being in razorwing mode in the first place.   Would definitely be nice to not have to drop it to open a door or loot a locker though.

 

 

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1 минуту назад, Krenlik сказал:

Titania just doesn't seem to have the mod slots for being able to get decent range unless you want to be CC only

Why? You can opt out of razorwing.

See the main problem of Titania? You need to give up her unique ability so that her other abilities are effective. 

 

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Atm I really enjoy spellbind and watching groups of mobs fly buy. 

I do really like the idea of being able to push and pull lantern in a consistent manner. Atm it really only feels like your team can move it around, no joke sometimes I unload clips into it and it won't budge then some one else hits it with a stray shot and it leaves orbit. I would like more synergies whith other powerslike targets of spellbind take more damage from lantern or it restores your number of razor flies when in range.

Tribute is okay but needs some work. If it's buffers could be effected buy duration it might help with the inconsistency. With all the buffs she is strong but not op. Maybe the tribute buff is maxed if you target something under lantern or spellbindes effect. Lastly I feel that maybe we just cut the cost of powers during razorwing.

 

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7 hours ago, zhellon said:

Why? You can opt out of razorwing.

See the main problem of Titania? You need to give up her unique ability so that her other abilities are effective. 

 

Wrong.  I have a low range build that utilizes razorwing to it's fullest while still having a very effective Spellbind.  Tribute I don't bother using and Lantern works quite well when strategically placed/used.  This is even with the negative range I have on my build.  

Now I'm fully aware that my build is made for MY playstyle and the average Tenno might not be able to make much use of it without fully knowing how Titania's powers work.  

Edited by DatDarkOne
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6 часов назад, DatDarkOne сказал:

Wrong. I have a low range build that utilizes razorwing to it's fullest while still having a very effective Spellbind. Tribute I don't bother using and Lantern works quite well when strategically placed/used. This is even with the negative range I have on my build.

Now I'm fully aware that my build is made for MY playstyle and the average Tenno might not be able to make much use of it without fully knowing how Titania's powers work.

Can I see the build? Because the difference between 70% and 100% is not very significant.

I was talking about something else. If you have strength below 200%, then razorwing becomes just an expensive button to fly, because the new weapon is already pretty much superior to the Dex Pixia. You are limited in builds. With a strength of 125% you get Phaedra in your hands. I'm already silent about the fact that Titania control is a useless thing because you have razorfly. Titania needs a complete redesign of the concept. Now she is a master of nothing, a pony of one button which is also bad. But you keep saying it's okay. I hope will the second archwing frame and I will be able finally to remove Titania and fully disclose archwing concept in normal game. Because Titania can't be revealed at all. You are limited in all aspects.

I can say that Titania at the moment is a more unfortunate version of Nidus. Nidus also has its ground version of razorfly and can also pull enemies, and he has more powerful and useful buffs for allies.

 

Edited by zhellon
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7 hours ago, zhellon said:

Can I see the build? Because the difference between 70% and 100% is not very significant. 

I was talking about something else. If you have strength below 200%, then razorwing becomes just an expensive button to fly, because the new weapon is already pretty much superior to the Dex Pixia. You are limited in builds. With a strength of 125% you get Phaedra in your hands. I'm already silent about the fact that Titania control is a useless thing because you have razorfly. 

I will say this again because you seemed to have missed it.

13 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

Now I'm fully aware that my build is made for MY playstyle and the average Tenno might not be able to make much use of it without fully knowing how Titania's powers work.  

showing you my build is useless if you don't understand how she works.  But if you really thing it would serve a purpose than I'll post it later today.  

 

edit:  This is an older build.  I won't have access to my gaming PC this weekend to get a more recent SS of the slight changes I made to the build.  On the current build the range is down to about 70% and the duration is about 130%

YbmoU3f.jpg

Edited by DatDarkOne
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1 час назад, DatDarkOne сказал:

showing you my build is useless if you don't understand how she works. But if you really thing it would serve a purpose than I'll post it later today.

 

edit: This is an older build. I won't have access to my gaming PC this weekend to get a more recent SS of the slight changes I made to the build. On the current build the range is down to about 70% and the duration is about 130%

It's a glass cannon.  This not unique build and each the second Titania flies in such a. You just didn't sacrifice the radius in favor of the duration of the ability. But it's just a glass cannon.

That's why I say Titania is a one-button pony. I would be very surprised if you used the augment on the lathern and somehow tried to expand its potential as a controller, but you did not. 

Edited by zhellon
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14 minutes ago, zhellon said:

But it's just a glass cannon.

You do know that Titania while in RW mode has over 50% Evasion.  Hardly a glass cannon at all especially when the Aviator mod is added in which is what my current RW build has in it.  With that mod and in RW mode she pretty much just doesn't get hit. 

 

19 minutes ago, zhellon said:

I would be very surprised if you used the augment on the lathern and somehow tried to expand its potential as a controller, but you did not. 

I don't need the augment for Lantern for my playstyle as Spellbind works just fine as CC and hits multiple targets at once.  With that said, Lantern is kinda redundant hence why I don't bother with it.  😄 

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9 минут назад, DatDarkOne сказал:

You do know that Titania while in RW mode has over 50% Evasion.  Hardly a glass cannon at all especially when the Aviator mod is added in which is what my current RW build has in it.  With that mod and in RW mode she pretty much just doesn't get hit. 

I'm talking about your build. You simply have no protection, except for the razor fly. 50% evasion is useful when you are able to withstand a large amount of damage. This has already been discussed. A very long discussion. 


But that's not what I was talking about. Razorwing is not a good ability for two reasons.

The first reason is limitations. I understand that the archwing mode does not support the operator and so it should be.

But there's an energy limit, which means we're not allowed to stay in archwing mode as long as we want. (I take pure archwing mode without razorfly, Dex Pixia and 50% evasion).

Another limitation is weapons. Now a normal weapon is able to split the mobs level 150 without any cost of energy. Also some weapons have unique mechanics that could be used, but we can't.

The third limitation is companions. All the companions are useless to Titania. Maybe for archwing there will be their companions, but when will they act for Titania if the developers can't even give razorwing the use of archwing weapons, which is already weird.

The second reason is that razorwing includes all of the most useful abilities, which is why the rest of the abilities are simply not needed.

Good protection in the form of razorfly (or 50% evasion, as you like). Good damage. (I wouldn't say it's the highest DPS in the game because it's a status weapon.) Yes, I'd rather have just a weapon booster because the Dex Pixia and Devata are conventional weapons that have no mechanics. Razorwing doesn't have a support ability, but Titania basically doesn't have good support abilities other than the first ability.Buffs are bad. In a literal sense to increase the damage of Pets, to slightly reduce the movement speed of enemies or reflect damage is not helpful. Reducing the accuracy of enemies - no one knows how it works and it's just hard to use. Razorfly is more reliable.

The bottom line is that Titania has 2 good but not very effective abilities (spellbind and razorwing) And when people come and say that we need a little rework - it makes me a little angry. Titania can become a good fan frame that uses the archwing mod as the main mechanics in the form of playstyle, and razorfly as a separate ability that can be implemented as the mechanics of all Titania's abilities. But people don't think about it. And since DE gets a lot of similar feedbacks that razorwing is fine with, Titania doesn't need a global rework, I have big doubts that Titania will ever turn into a full-fledged frame.

Titania fun frame? Yes, if you play it for 5 minutes once a year, when the infected come to earth. But when you play it constantly and everywhere, including the latest content, you immediately see all its problems and all its limitations.The main problem is the equipment not  does Titania are stronger. Titania is not able to effectively use any equipment at all.

ups. I got carried away.

13 минут назад, DatDarkOne сказал:

I don't need the augment for Lantern for my playstyle as Spellbind works just fine as CC and hits multiple targets at once.  With that said, Lantern is kinda redundant hence why I don't bother with it.  😄 

Unfortunately, I have to agree. The Lantern however is not a good ability. It resets the aggression of enemies very slowly and enemies can shoot at you.

 

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1 minute ago, zhellon said:

You simply have no protection, except for the razor fly.

That's why you dodge and evade.  You don't just sit in one spot and wait or let enemies shot you.  Duh

 

7 minutes ago, zhellon said:

But there's an energy limit, which means we're not allowed to stay in archwing mode as long as we want. (I take pure archwing mode without razorfly, Dex Pixia and 50% evasion).

Another limitation is weapons. Now a normal weapon is able to split the mobs level 150 without any cost of energy. Also some weapons have unique mechanics that could be used, but we can't.

None of this is an issue for a few reasons.  efficiency mods are a thing.  RW mod has increased innate vacuum range that now benefits from vacuum mods on pet etc, which allows her to easily get energy drops from all those dead enemies.  Dex Pixia are actually quite powerful when modded correctly.  So much so that my Gas build build kills 100-160 bombards with just one or two trigger pulls. 

 

17 minutes ago, zhellon said:

The bottom line is that Titania has 2 good but not very effective abilities (spellbind and razorwing) And when people come and say that we need a little rework - it makes me a little angry. Titania can become a good fan frame that uses the archwing mod as the main mechanics in the form of playstyle, and razorfly as a separate ability that can be implemented as the mechanics of all Titania's abilities. But people don't think about it. And since DE gets a lot of similar feedbacks that razorwing is fine with, Titania doesn't need a global rework, I have big doubts that Titania will ever turn into a full-fledged frame

All of this above iI can agree with.  There is one very important FACT of the game that most seem to forget in these types of topics.  There are very few frames in the game that have more than 2 useful abilities.  So in this sense Titania is any different than most of the frames in the game in this regard. 

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1 час назад, DatDarkOne сказал:
All of this above iI can agree with. There is one very important FACT of the game that most seem to forget in these types of topics.

There are very few frames in the game that have more than 2 useful abilities. So in this sense Titania is any different than most of the frames in the game in this regard.

Limbo, Harrow, Trinity, Rhino, Revenant, Khora, Hildryn, Nidus, Ivara, Oberon, Nezha, Octavia, Saryn, Mesa, Wukong, Garuda, Ash, Mag, Mirage, Gara, Volt, Equinox, Loki, Wisp

Archwing: Amesha, Elythron, Itzal

27/44

Yes, I'm not saying all these frames are OK, but they all have more than 2 useful abilities. And that's more than half the frames and archwings. And in my opinion, it is not necessary to continue the trend of useless abilities. Each frame must get its unique gameplay tied to active and passive abilities, otherwise it's just HP/shield/armor stats. Titania has it, but as if in beta.

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2 hours ago, zhellon said:

Limbo, Harrow, Trinity, Rhino, Revenant, Khora, Hildryn, Nidus, Ivara, Oberon, Nezha, Octavia, Saryn, Mesa, Wukong, Garuda, Ash, Mag, Mirage, Gara, Volt, Equinox, Loki, Wisp

You can drop from that list:  Loki Limbo, Wukong, Gara, Mirage.  I would say Equinox also because of how switching modes disables the other modes ability.  I don't know enough about Hildryn, and Wisp to say otherwise.  This is also not counting abilities that are so situational that they get used infrequently.  That said, most frames only have about 2 abilities that get used regularly with an elite few having more.   I stand by my previous statement.  😛 

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1 час назад, DatDarkOne сказал:

You can drop from that list: Loki Limbo, Wukong, Gara, Mirage. I would say Equinox also because of how switching modes disables the other modes ability. I don't know enough about Hildryn, and Wisp to say otherwise. This is also not counting abilities that are so situational that they get used infrequently. That said, most frames only have about 2 abilities that get used regularly with an elite few having more. I stand by my previous statement.

😛 

This is a conversation about opinions. I created a list based on my personal feelings of playing on these frames. Of course, Khora or Harrow won't be useful everywhere, but they can go through most of the content and are also quite capable of playing effectively on overlvl. (difficult, but possible).

In any case, the number of broken frames does not change the fact that they need to be repaired. And let them spend enough time not to go back to the frame in future. A minor rework won't change anything, at least on Titania. Personally, I'm annoyed that I can't fly with a sniper rifle. I can't use my Pets to generate energy or increase my damage. Can't use the mechanics of the weapon as the zenitar. And a lot of things that make the gameplay on Titania really bad. It's just sad.

 

Edited by zhellon
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