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MisterCheshire

Grendel Discussion and Feedback

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6 hours ago, Haranthus said:

I don't like it ... frankly it ticks me off... 

So ... instead of the awesome Oni theme that was suggested a few months ago ... you made him a walking fat joke about eating, puking, farting and rolling ...

Wow ... great ... so much for the positivism shown around Hildryn.  Heavy guys can't get the same respect?  I mean the devs just laughed at him the whole time he was being shown

Eh, both me and my GF are excited for Grendel and are planning on buying him immediately with plat. As well as being the only real heavy-set frame, his move set seems rather interesting to the both of us.

While i do agree that the chat was a bit rude during Grendel's demo, DE made sure that grendel wasn't any more or less effective than his team-mates. He's as agile and strong as Frost, Rhyno, Hildren, or any other frame. He's essentially a Kirby-frame! and his move-set isn't nearly as gross are you're making it out to be. 

 

His munch ability has him moreso consuming people via cloud.

The vomit ability is simply a enemy based projectile.

The consume ability allows for a variety of different defenses.

His roll ability also sees him morphing into a sonic/metroid style morph ball, rather then he himself rolling around. 

 

I don't really see Grendel as an insult to fat folks as it's being made out to be. Does he use a few stereotypes? Yeah, he's rather eat-centric but I find the character charming. 

 

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I have a few concerns about Grendel.

His ability 3 (shoot one enemy without aditional effect) is in my opinion kind of pointless, while holding 1 (release all eaten enemies with toxin effect) and ability 2 (out of specific Eaten enemies get specific buffs)have better uses of dealing with eaten enemies.

If his passiv is just this 60%armor buff for kinda 8seconds after he has eaten an enemy also not that awesome. But at this point i could be wrong and also its just a passiv.

I also wonder can he really kill with his 2 any enemy regardless of lifepoints and armor (like an insta kill). My question here is, is it than spammable or do you have to wait till buff went out and could you than workaround it with very low duration. if this is energy wise managable this seems kinda broken.

But still my biggest concern is his troll potential. Eat an enemy and never release it, would troll hard in defens. (The enegy drain could be worked around with pizzas and that would result in endless duration (Nidus and Garuda have at least a duration were you get a small window to kill the enemy) and we have no way to dmg not even with abilities like when Limbo banishes enemies. Also its not like revents Minions that when he convert them wave ends, because if Grendel eats them they are still alive). But yeah this only important if you get in a mission with someone who wants to troll.

Is it just me and do I have to big concerns where everything is just fine or do I have at least some justified concerns?

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Couldn't Feast 1 and Regurgitate 3 be one skill? Press/hold 1 to Feast and press/release 1 to Regurgitate? Could open up ability 3 for something else.

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7 minutes ago, EdDiesel said:

Couldn't Feast 1 and Regurgitate 3 be one skill? Press/hold 1 to Feast and press/release 1 to Regurgitate? Could open up ability 3 for something else.

I see this suggestion a lot and I can't say I particularly agree.  His 1 is sort of a dual function.  You can suck up a lot of enemies to quickly have a lot of armor in a high tension situation.  Or you can quickly suck up a group and then dump them at your feat for some quick/cheap ccing.  His 3 looks to weaponize what he's eaten.  Similar functionalities.  Different purposes.  I can say that I agree that his 3 sounds a bit light in terms of useage as does his 4.  But that doesn't mean that's an issue.

But I don't think rolling both the vomit and eat abilities into the same ability in favor of making a whole brand new ability is really needed.  His shtick after all is literally eating and shooting enemies out.  the consuming for buffs is that little extra fluff that is the side thing for his kit.

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11 minutes ago, (XB1)aMichealMeyers said:

Would be lol if teamwork and another Tenno can run on top of the ball like a clown.

...So that's why they wanted to release Grendel and Gauss at the same time.

Hypersonic Road Roller.

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2 hours ago, Lorfron said:

I have a few concerns about Grendel.

His ability 3 (shoot one enemy without aditional effect) is in my opinion kind of pointless, while holding 1 (release all eaten enemies with toxin effect) and ability 2 (out of specific Eaten enemies get specific buffs)have better uses of dealing with eaten enemies.

If his passiv is just this 60%armor buff for kinda 8seconds after he has eaten an enemy also not that awesome. But at this point i could be wrong and also its just a passiv.

I also wonder can he really kill with his 2 any enemy regardless of lifepoints and armor (like an insta kill). My question here is, is it than spammable or do you have to wait till buff went out and could you than workaround it with very low duration. if this is energy wise managable this seems kinda broken.

But still my biggest concern is his troll potential. Eat an enemy and never release it, would troll hard in defens. (The enegy drain could be worked around with pizzas and that would result in endless duration (Nidus and Garuda have at least a duration were you get a small window to kill the enemy) and we have no way to dmg not even with abilities like when Limbo banishes enemies. Also its not like revents Minions that when he convert them wave ends, because if Grendel eats them they are still alive). But yeah this only important if you get in a mission with someone who wants to troll.

Is it just me and do I have to big concerns where everything is just fine or do I have at least some justified concerns?

As they noted in the devstream, Both Devour and Meatball will drain energy, so even if an opponent eats them, they'll have to use them or lose them. 

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Assuming Regurgitate stays as an individual ability, it should do more in the scaling department (or maybe we just haven't seen more of what it does yet).

  • Damage to the spat out enemy, and to enemies it hits, and in a radius around the impact area, scales with amount of enemies in your stomach.
  • Leaves behind a pool of bile that deals and procs Corrosive damage per second for a duration. Bile pool also slows down the movement of enemies inside, and speeds up Warframe movement.
  • Can be held down to charge the distance of the spit, as well as doubling overall damage and duration of the bile pool.
  • Can be used during Meatball to catapult enemies out on the move, creating speed pads for you to roll through.

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Posted (edited)
vor 48 Minuten schrieb MisterCheshire:

As they noted in the devstream, Both Devour and Meatball will drain energy, so even if an opponent eats them, they'll have to use them or lose them. 

It will drain energy for each enemy eaten, so I assume the cost when you only eat one will be not that much. paired with efficiency mods and flow/primed flow it will last a long time and like i said if you ontop use energy pizzas nearly endless. could be annoying in defens missions.

Edited by Lorfron

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16 minutes ago, Lorfron said:

It will drain energy for each enemy eaten, so I assume the cost when you only eat one will be not that much. paired with efficiency mods and flow/primed flow it will last a long time and like i said if you ontop use energy pizzas nearly endless. could be annoying in defens missions.

Meatball will most definitely be a "Constant drain" ability. They even mentioned in stream that if you don't drop it soon enough, you'll end up dizzy. My guess is consume will be the same, where eating too much will cause you to release them involuntarily. 

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Posted (edited)
vor 5 Minuten schrieb MisterCheshire:

Meatball will most definitely be a "Constant drain" ability. They even mentioned in stream that if you don't drop it soon enough, you'll end up dizzy. My guess is consume will be the same, where eating too much will cause you to release them involuntarily. 

ok only use devour only eat one enemy use max efficiency and primed flow also pizzas (Squad Energy Restore)(they ignor toggled energie drain). But yeah just lets hope noone wants to troll like this.

I hope your forced release suggestion will be implemented even if you only have one enemy eaten-> would be a good solution.

Edited by Lorfron
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14 hours ago, PsiWarp said:

Thinking about if Grendel can cast his other powers in Meatball mode, maybe they can help his mobility somehow.

Feast - still eats targets from a distance and barf out stomach contents.

Nourish - when cast, causes Grendelball to leap much higher than a basic jump.

Regurgitate - instead of launching the enemy, it launches Grendel in that direction. The enemy is still vomited out behind you. So basically he farts and rockets away.


I'm gonna agree with this. A lil late in that agreement but, still.

Having additional affects on his abilities during his ultimate would severely help his ultimate seem useful.

Of course, we haven't seen what it will be like modded and all of that, but from the general view we saw it seems.. kinda eh. Cool looking, though.

Though a personal thought, Nourish during Grendel's #4 should consume all enemies for an increased cost but with a bigger buff, or increased devour AOE range, etc.

The #3 launch-in-direction suggestion you suggested would work in any direction, so you could lunch yourself straight up then forward if you wanted from that.

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Posted (edited)

Maybe instead of his 1 and 3 being "the same" maybe give 3 ability to eat/spit up items? Like health/energy/ammo, maybe to save them later or for different buffs/damaging spit ups, dunno, but that seems a lil complicated to me.

But having 3 abilities about eating/spitting/digesting, and one about rolling around just seems, too much. Maybe 2 eating/spitting/digesting abilities, 1 rolling around and, dunno, something about troll or Oni lore? The digesting ability kinda already has the troll regeneration goin on. I know absolutely nothing about Onis, other than they're Japanese demons or something. I don't think Trolls or Onis like sunlight. 

Tbh I'm kinda stumped on what his "new 3" could be. Dunno how to turn "weakness to sunlight" into an ability. Unless he can use it to turn to stone for invulnerability for a few secs, and explode the stone statue into damaging shards. That could be interesting. Turn Meat Ball into stone, and explode the boom ball to fly. 

Actually, that would be pretty badass. New 3, invulnerable statue that gathers damage, and releases it on explosion. Stone Meat Ball would just roll down hills faster and harder, and do a rad "Bounce" when exploded

Plus in Smash Kirby does the "become invulnerable stone and smash everything under me" thing

Edited by (XB1)aMichealMeyers

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The real question is can they have a Grendel Deluxe skin in time for Tennobaun.  

Apart from being a jolly fat frame, he appears pretty useless and everything he does other frames do better and in a way that is more meaningful. The Meatball will be fun for about two uses then no one will touch it again. DE would do well to learn that we have a primary, secondary and a melee that people want to use, turning into a dung ball and rolling around is not engaging game play. If his ability was to launch said dung balls and have them knock down enemies with speed tied to power strength and the number of mobs you ate buffing power strength, then you could play the game and have your ultimate be beneficial to you and your team. 

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18 hours ago, GnarlsDarkley said:

That's correct, but won't explain why Grendel shouldn't be able to use K-Drives and such. It would only explain if he will be able to not drown in water like all the other frames :crylaugh:

that would make zephyr and grendel the only two frames with a ρ low enough to float.

(mental image: zephyr and grendel just splashing about in gara thot lake while the other two teammates keep drowning)

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Posted (edited)
On 2019-08-18 at 12:18 AM, Umbriellan said:

I wonder where you read the work "exalted" in my post ; I find that an ability that you could link to a martial art would have been better than the current 3rd ability.

To put in simple words: I wanted something like Wyzen (Asura's wrath), or Smough the Executionner (Dark Souls), instead of Gluttony (FMA), or Kirby.

-but now that's already done, we only have to wait & test it to see how well this warframe will insert itself in the solo/squad gameplay.

I would take Gluttony (FMA) over Smough (Dark Souls). Smough is a melee fighter swinging a heavy hammer.  Warframe's equivalent is exalted melee mechanics. I googled Wyzen and all I see is Atlas punching all over the place. So again. BORING. PASS. 

If there's a new warframe being introduced, I'd much prefer it to come with new mechanics and ideas not in the game previously. Instead of it being a cosmetic reskin of older warframes or a frankenstein amalgamation of several old frames' capabilities rolled into one.  If you want more Atlas punching but with a different appearance, kindly go buy the deluxe, or wait for more deluxe skins, or his prime, or tennogen. Don't ask a new warframe to become a reskin of Atlas. And you can still make Grendel act like Smough WITHOUT even giving him an ability dedicated to wielding a special hammer. Just equip him with a normal melee hammer! 

Edited by Xepthrichros

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Posted (edited)

I wanted to see a fat wf happed and I'm glade this wf has one of the abilities I came up with.

I also came up with a fat wf idea, you can take a look here maybe you might like my version of a fat wf.

 

Edited by (PS4)Vexx757

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Posted (edited)

when I heard about the new "kirby" frame I was really excited for kit

but now that I saw him ...

whole frame about one skill and thats 1 that can basicaly instakill/devour enemy like garuda old 1 ?

passive another armor buff what about some digestion buff too basic what about some hp regen per enemy ?

1 3 realy stupid It should be on one ability - hold for devour and hit for spit out

2 another armor nothing special or funn what about a toxic fluid that would create a damaging and armor-reducing trace on the floor

3 as I wrote above it should be another spell 

4  I'm terribly curious about energy cost 1 and 4 together to spend 10 seconds at 4, which is probably his best spell

 

edit another bullshgit

I hear he'll use "food" as a fuel for ability ,I don't see anything like that except for 3

it could have been a really super enemy absorbing frame but you made him a fat idiot hes not loking good at all and his kit is "funny" and usseles 

so that the creepy frame that was created out of fear? ye hes so yes it is terribly terrible o and yes for the big mouth that eats everything is wider than the other frame

Edited by Renginus
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Posted (edited)

Garudas 1 was never able to insta kill an enemy from 100% health. I think it was just set to that in her devstream reveal.

but yes his 1 and 3 should just become the same ability and he needs a new 3. His kit is very monotonous as is.

Edited by (XB1)GearsMatrix301
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7 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Garudas 1 was never able to insta kill an enemy from 100% health. I think it was just set to that in her devstream reveal.

but yes his 1 and 3 should just become the same ability and he needs a new 3. His kit is very monotonous as is.

rly ?

I thought she had 1 insta kill: D before nerfs

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Some more feedback:

I think Grendel should be able to cast his abilities without a single enemy eaten, just so he isn't completely ineffective without enemies around you or during boss fights.

Feast - seeing as it is like a vacuum wind tunnel, bosses and units that can't be eaten should still be drawn in toward Grendel when using Feast.

Nourish - if no eaten enemy, drain 25% of his max health to activate the Armor buff. If have eaten enemies, insta-kill the selected one for the specific buff and also heal Grendel for 25% of his max health.

Regurgitate - if no eaten enemy, puke a glob of bile that flies in an arc and leave a toxic/corrosive pool where it lands. If have eaten enemy, lob range significantly Increased with same pool effect and damage dealt to the launched enemy.

Meatball - deal high damage to bosses and inedible units on direct collision, and damage over time when they stay in your swallow range.

There is hopefully much we still haven't seen, but these would help him out.

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Posted (edited)

First off, his 1 isn't an instant kill, it traps them and damages them over time, like hydroids undertow. 

Secondly, he requires "food" for 2,3,and 4. For his 2 you consume an enemy stored within to receive a buff, the 3 is obvious, and I think for his 4 they said it consumes 1 food charge to turn on his 4.

Third, he has always looked like that, even before we knew what his powers were about, idk where you got the idea that he was just recently "ruined" 

Lastly, yea you got me there. I agree that his 1 and 3 should be combined. Though I have no idea what would serve as a viable replacement. 

Edited by Miser_able
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