Making game run smoother for people with older PC

[niblo]

Hi!

So i was thinking, a lot of players ( me included) have computers old 3-5 years, some are still running warframe at computers as old as warframe is, and beacuse warframe is evolving some computers are falling behind , some people cant afford new computers, but i know that you at DE allways care about your community and that u try to make new updates run also on older PCs, but a lot of people are still having a lot of problems with openworlds, while they can normally play warframe, openworlds dont work.

SO HERE IS MY IDEA:

What if you would add setting that allows you to go not under minimum but on the settings of nintendo switch, i think that the way that  nintendo compressed warframe on souch a small device, you should put it on Pc also, if would be nice if players with older computers were eable to use this setting, making game clear from where they stand and object far away would be compressed , like nintendo does it.

i know u might not have time, or maybe its a setting that u can just copy from nintendo and add it into the game, but pls think about it, beacue feature like that would not only help players with older computers but it would also be good for new updates, a lot of players are taping out beacue updates are just too strong, with feature like that u could keep players that are not eable to run openworlds and bigger updates that are comming.

Thank you for your time DE

Niblo , PIBLO ( Rebb knows xD )

[LSG501]

or maybe you could just accept that your old pcs are no longer capable of playing the game and you need to upgrade.... as you say the game is evolving and you've had several years to save up for new pc parts. 

[Dhrekr]

28 minutes ago, niblo said:

What if you would add setting that allows you to go not under minimum but on the settings of nintendo switch, i think that the way that  nintendo compressed warframe on souch a small device, you should put it on Pc also, if would be nice if players with older computers were eable to use this setting, making game clear from where they stand and object far away would be compressed , like nintendo does it.

You... do realize that DE has already confirmed (at the launch of the switch) that many of the game improvements done for the Switch have then been applied to the global build, right?

So, basically, your "idea" is something that has already been happening for years.

 

But let us not kid ourselves. The Switch version is not going to save an old computer. I play on an 8-years old laptop. There is no amount of magic that DE can do to make an open world like that run smoothly on this thing.

[Magicfingers]

15 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

or maybe you could just accept that your old pcs are no longer capable of playing the game and you need to upgrade.... as you say the game is evolving and you've had several years to save up for new pc parts. 

some people just simply can't afford new stuff. i've been disabled since before warframe came about and have to make do with a very small disability check each month. after i pay my bills, buy my food. and do car upkeep (gas, oil changes, etc.) i have about 5 dollars a month to splurge on things. how long would it take for me to save up for a new pc? even if i just bought one thing at a time, by the time i saved up for that one thing, it would be outdated and i'd need to shift to a newer thing. no matter what i did, the biggest part of my pc would always be outdated and behind the times.

[NoSpax]

vor einer Stunde schrieb niblo:

What if you would add setting that allows you to go not under minimum but on the settings of nintendo switch, i think that the way that  nintendo compressed warframe on souch a small device, you should put it on Pc also

What am I reading?

Can you please post your PC specs?

 

[LSG501]

1 hour ago, Magicfingers said:

some people just simply can't afford new stuff. i've been disabled since before warframe came about and have to make do with a very small disability check each month. after i pay my bills, buy my food. and do car upkeep (gas, oil changes, etc.) i have about 5 dollars a month to splurge on things. how long would it take for me to save up for a new pc? even if i just bought one thing at a time, by the time i saved up for that one thing, it would be outdated and i'd need to shift to a newer thing. no matter what i did, the biggest part of my pc would always be outdated and behind the times.

That's an issue with your countries disability support system, based on your wording I'd guess you're probably in the US and well we all know their 'benefits' system sucks. 

You also assume you need to have the latest and greatest hardware, you don't need the absolute best hardware to run warframe but at the same time there is no reason for warframe to 'dumb down' it's requirements any further, the listed requirements are already below what's realistically needed as is. 

The real world fact with pc gaming means that at some point your pc will become obsolete, in some cases that can be when a game gets an update (world of warcraft has had requirements increased with new updates for example).  I don't expect my old s939 x2 4200+ machine to play modern games for example, it's fine for games from when it came out and for browsing the web etc... and ironically it's supposedly meant to be able to play warframe yet I wouldn't even bother trying because I know it's too old. 

edit: the min requirements specify a 13 YEAR OLD intel cpu... the amd one is at least 10 years +, so it's not like people haven't had enough time to save up for an upgrade in that time...

Edited August 16, 2019 by LSG501

[Hobie-wan]

They gave plenty of warning before upping the minimum requirements last year (or was it before that?). If they don't keep adding things and making things fancier, people will leave the game. More people would leave for the game being unchanged for several years than they'll lose because people can't upgrade and keep up. Warframe has pretty modest requirements compared to a lot of games. For those saying they can't upgrade their PCs because they have no money, well, you've had however many years of playing the game for free. The company has bills and employees to pay too.

That's the reality of the situation.

[Sea_Blue_Stars]

10 minutes ago, Hobie-wan said:

They gave plenty of warning before upping the minimum requirements last year (or was it before that?). If they don't keep adding things and making things fancier, people will leave the game. More people would leave for the game being unchanged for several years than they'll lose because people can't upgrade and keep up. Warframe has pretty modest requirements compared to a lot of games. For those saying they can't upgrade their PCs because they have no money, well, you've had however many years of playing the game for free. The company has bills and employees to pay too.

That's the reality of the situation.

????

The reality here is that some people cannot upgrade their PC's. Yes, the game has to evolve. But that doesn't make the issue of "I don't have the money to get a better PC" any less real. 

Warning doesn't make that problem go away. 

"The company has to pay their bills" doesn't make that problem go away. 

Saying "Get a better computer" spumds simple enough but for a lot of people it really isn't that easy.

[Klokwerkaos]

de has been telling you to upgrade your pc for years.

invest some in your pc.  i know bills are a thing, but it's all about priorities mang.  

maybe spend less time playing warframe and more time making bread so you can better enjoy playing warframe

[Hobie-wan]

2 minutes ago, Sea_Blue_Stars said:

????

The reality here is that some people cannot upgrade their PC's. Yes, the game has to evolve. But that doesn't make the issue of "I don't have the money to get a better PC" any less real. 

Warning doesn't make that problem go away. 

"The company has to pay their bills" doesn't make that problem go away. 

Saying "Get a better computer" spumds simple enough but for a lot of people it really isn't that easy.

That's my point. Those people will simply be left behind. The game will lose less players by unfortunately leaving people who can't upgrade at all behind versus losing people who think the game 'looks old'. That's just how it is.

If someone doesn't have the money to upgrade, it happens. Pay for a roof over your head and food to eat and whatnot first. Those are more important. You had a time of playing Warframe for free you wouldn't have had it if were a retail game and/or had a monthly fee. If you manage some (nothing wrong with used) upgrades that get you back on track later, awesome.

[Sea_Blue_Stars]

4 minutes ago, Hobie-wan said:

That's my point. Those people will simply be left behind. The game will lose less players by unfortunately leaving people who can't upgrade at all behind versus losing people who think the game 'looks old'. That's just how it is.

If someone doesn't have the money to upgrade, it happens. Pay for a roof over your head and food to eat and whatnot first. Those are more important. You had a time of playing Warframe for free you wouldn't have had it if were a retail game and/or had a monthly fee. If you manage some (nothing wrong with used) upgrades that get you back on track later, awesome.

My mistake. I misread the tone of the post. 

[Magicfingers]

7 hours ago, Sea_Blue_Stars said:

????

The reality here is that some people cannot upgrade their PC's. Yes, the game has to evolve. But that doesn't make the issue of "I don't have the money to get a better PC" any less real. 

Warning doesn't make that problem go away. 

"The company has to pay their bills" doesn't make that problem go away. 

Saying "Get a better computer" spumds simple enough but for a lot of people it really isn't that easy.

the problem is that the people with money that can upgrade their stuff whenever just can't understand what it's like to not have money for that stuff.

[5H4DE]

The game is already pushing the limits on that front, asking anything more is just asking to limit what they can add in to the game. You're basically asking for the vast majority of the playerbase to deal with lower quality content just so a small portion can keep playing on their toasters. I also can't afford to get a new PC, I know Empyrean will probably push the limits of the one I have and I still want the game to keep improving visually and to add bigger and more interesting expansions. I'll definitely be unable to play Cyberpunk 2077 when it comes out, should I ask CDPR to deliver a lower quality game just so I can play it? Have them work twice as hard to provide me with much worse visuals and delay the game just so I don't feel left out on my hamster-powered Laptop?

I know it sucks when you can't play a game you like because the specs requirements have gone up, but we shouldn't ask for devs to deliver worse than they can just so we don't have to upgrade. Eventually that 7y old PC you have will break down, what will you do then?

[krc473]

2 hours ago, Magicfingers said:

the problem is that the people with money that can upgrade their stuff whenever just can't understand what it's like to not have money for that stuff.

Yes, but on the opposite side the people that can not afford to should also understand that it’s not just about them. A company shouldn’t spend great lengths of time trying to make stuff run on unreasonably outdated systems. There comes a point when people have to accept they cannot run the game.

 

As I don’t see it mentioned here: DE did state (TennoLive) that they are updating the game engine. This is going to make stuff look better, and may change how well the game runs for people. How well this can be optimised has not been stated. But, it might solve some performance issues for some systems. (It could also become unplayable for some)

[LSG501]

7 hours ago, Magicfingers said:

the problem is that the people with money that can upgrade their stuff whenever just can't understand what it's like to not have money for that stuff.

You make an awfully big assumption with that...

I wouldn't exactly say I have a lot of disposable income (and I'd guess many others are the same commenting) where I can just go out and buy something whenever I want so how did I get my 'new' pc, well I saved for it and accepted the fact that I wouldn't be able to play everything until I could afford to buy a new pc....  yes it's annoying when you can't play that game you want to play but that's life, we can't always have what we want.

I was also brought up to save up for something rather than using a credit card to buy stuff so I literally only buy what I can afford, not what the bank says I can buy and then pay it back later.

Realising an old pc can't play a game or you need to upgrade isn't about being 'rich', it's about being realistic in that you're using a pc for gaming and gaming pc's go out of date a LOT faster than consoles do.  No matter what pc you have there will come a point where it will be out of date for the game you enjoy playing, especially if it's one which is being actively developed or improved, ie like warframe. 

If you want a 'long life' pc for gaming you're basically screwed, hell some of the new games coming out have minimum requirements that require hardware that is only a couple of years old, recommended being even higher.  That same system that is minimum for this new game is excessive for warframe so complaining about lack of support for older pc's when DE already supports 10+ year old hardware is just kind of stupid imo. 

 

Edited August 17, 2019 by LSG501

[Sloan441]

18 hours ago, LSG501 said:

or maybe you could just accept that your old pcs are no longer capable of playing the game and you need to upgrade.... as you say the game is evolving and you've had several years to save up for new pc parts. 

Kinda this. 

PC gaming isn't a cheap hobby and it very much is upgrade or die. Once you have a PC up and running you should already be thinking about its replacement in 3-5 years and plan accordingly. 

This is one reason I keep two PCs relatively current. Two is one; one is none. Also, when you do build, spend 'til it hurts. Building closer to the bleeding edge means longer upgrade cycles. A PC then can potentially last 6 to 8 years or so with only minor upgrades--assuming no catastrophic hardware failures (it does happen, particularly to laptops). 

One way to minimize costs is to keep monitor resolution under control. I like huge monitors and extremely high resolutions, but it's devastatingly expensive and bleeding edge panels can have a lot of hidden costs (unreliable, high failure rate, possibly limited life /cougholed/cough). Ultrawides and 4K monitors all cost a mint up front and require very powerful hardware--and you all know what nVidia cards can cost on the big end since AMD has been absent from this market segment for far too long. It's worse when you throw in high refresh rates and stuff like Gsync. So if you build to strictly 1080p and avoid high refresh monitors it can keep costs down and still retain very good visuals. 

This all also applies to laptops, but there's no real upgrade path and they cost relatively more up front. Also, they tend to have shorter lifespans, but that comes with the territory and if you need portability then you need it and that's that.  

 

[Test-995]

I'd love to see toaster mode with super low poly model with single color texture, is it impossible?

[BLI7Z]

11 hours ago, Magicfingers said:

the problem is that the people with money that can upgrade their stuff whenever just can't understand what it's like to not have money for that stuff.

I had a laptop with an onboard GPU during 8 years. I played more than half of my playtime in Warframe at 15-30FPS, sometimes even less. Now, since two years ago, I play at 144fps with an MSI gaming laptop...

Believe me, I understand how it feels not being able to upgrade during so much time... but I never used that personal thing as an excuse for wanting games to lower global expectations. I always wanted games to require better hardware. Why? Because I want technology to evolve and become more powerful and efficient. What I lack shouldn't be dead weight towards the bigger picture of things. 

[Magicfingers]

6 minutes ago, BLI7Z said:

I had a laptop with an onboard GPU during 8 years. I played more than half of my playtime in Warframe at 15-30FPS, sometimes even less. Now, since two years ago, I play at 144fps with an MSI gaming laptop...

Believe me, I understand how it feels not being able to upgrade during so much time... but I never used that personal thing as an excuse for wanting games to lower global expectations. I always wanted games to require better hardware. Why? Because I want technology to evolve and become more powerful and efficient. What I lack shouldn't be dead weight towards the bigger picture of things. 

i never said that i wanted them to lower global expectations....i just said that some people can't afford to upgrade and that most people just can't seem to grasp the idea that not everyone can afford to upgrade their stuff as easily as most people seem to think it is. they have no clue what's it's like to be on an extremely tiny budget. most people seem to think that if they can afford it, then everyone can afford it.

[Blexander]

On 2019-08-16 at 11:25 PM, Dhrekr said:

There is no amount of magic that DE can do to make an open world like that run smoothly on this thing.

There might be. 2 words. "Toggle foliage".

My PC (laptop) is around 7-8 years old. When PoE came out, it was impossible to play it. I can run everything except the open world segments fine with a few stutters when 20 different particle/visual effects happen at once. With recent updates, I can barely manage to do some mining near, but returning to Cetus bricks the laptop.

So I did some test. Looking in different directions, moving, jumping, physically blowing into my fan, etc. Don't quote me on this, but I believe that PoE works with chunk-loading, but with a very small refresh rate, meaning it's constantly updating. So, looking at all the moving parts loaded in an area, I came to the conclusion that grass along with some particle effect drop the framerate hard. I've done tests with a slightly newer laptop that can handle both PoE and Orb Vallis with minimal hiccups. Both laptops start to severely heat up upon entering, and then maintain said temperature until exiting.

It's not the map itself, it's moslty just 2-3 layers of textures with some holes here and there. It's not the caves, they're instanced similarly to rooms in starchart maps. It's the grass(probably).

[Dhrekr]

8 hours ago, Blexander said:

There might be. 2 words. "Toggle foliage".

Meeeeh. My laptop struggles to run Jupiter. There is no amount that foliage removal that will make PoE a fluid experience.

[Blexander]

2 minutes ago, Dhrekr said:

Meeeeh. My laptop struggles to run Jupiter. There is no amount that foliage removal that will make PoE a fluid experience.

Jupiter is different. As I mentioned there's a pseudo-instance based loading of rooms, and Jupiter has very big rooms with more moving parts. I'll try to explain my how I think it works.

Let's say you're in a room, on a grineer tileset, and you've explored a decent part of the map. Let's say there's some loot and enemies in the centre of the room that connects to the one you're in. The minimap doesn't show that there's loot in the middle of that room. It saved the location of said loot in that location and is waiting for the player to change instances(rooms) to fully load then in. Same applies to enemies in a way. In Jupiters case, it might be more than just large rooms, they might have more layered/detailed textures.

I'm literally talking out of my ass, it could turn out that non of what I said is true or how the game loads in.

But I am 100% sure about one thing. Processors are the most active parts when loading into PoE and Orb Vallis.

[Dhrekr]

47 minutes ago, Blexander said:

I'm literally talking out of my ass, it could turn out that non of what I said is true or how the game loads in.

What can I say. You speak like my four-words description of my hardware has allowed you to know my laptop more intimately than I know it (after having used it for each single day for the last eight years). I find it unimpressive, as an approach.

I say that there is no amount of magic that DE can use to make the game run smoothly on my laptop because I know my laptop. I could go on with examples of my laptop underperforming, if you want, but it is a tiring exercise and it will just prompt you to, as you say, literally talk out of your ass some more.

The game is moving in a precise direction - more graphical performance and fidelity. I am absolutely amazed that my computer can even still run Warframe - it is by far one of the most optimized games that I have ever seen, I have bought 2010 games that no longer run smoothly on this thing - and DE is not going to evolve the game backwards in time.

DE has gotten all the tricks they could out of the Switch port, and they will continue to do so as the game progresses, but that's not going to save my hardware. What I - and people with a computer like mine - need is not for DE to make Warframe as if it was a 2011 game. It's a new computer.

[Blexander]

2 hours ago, Dhrekr said:

What can I say. You speak like my four-words description of my hardware has allowed you to know my laptop more intimately than I know it (after having used it for each single day for the last eight years). I find it unimpressive, as an approach.

I say that there is no amount of magic that DE can use to make the game run smoothly on my laptop because I know my laptop. I could go on with examples of my laptop underperforming, if you want, but it is a tiring exercise and it will just prompt you to, as you say, literally talk out of your ass some more.

Oh, don't give me this S#&$. Laptops don't differ in specs so wildly that I can't make a comparison based on the age of them.

2 hours ago, Dhrekr said:

What I - and people with a computer like mine - need is not for DE to make Warframe as if it was a 2011 game. It's a new computer.

Who made the argument that downgrading the game is what anybody wants/needs? Having more control over what appears in-game is a good thing. I have issues running Oblivion on the highest settings, and it's solely caused due to grass loading. I can't even turn bloom off on my laptop. Naturally, better hardware is required as the game is steadily becoming more and more detailed.

[NoSpax]

Hm, I think my PC is moderate.

• AMD Ryzen 5 1500X @ 3500 with a slight 100 Mhz overclock (4 cores, 8 threads)
• 8 GB DDR4 RAM @ 2400 (higher is better), 2x4GB dual-channel, single rank
• Geforce GTX 560 Ti (256-bit one)

I can run normal Missions between 100 and 120 fps, athough it sometimes drops down around 75 fps.

As soon I go into PoE or Orb Vallis, it drops immensely, so I have to use "Dynamic Resolution" set to 50, just to be able to play PoE at ~30-40.

I have turned most of the graphics stuff off, because I need clear visuals, not to be obstructed by light, shadows and bloom. Some mastery tests are highly affected by this, since they have the stupid "Simulacrum" (white, blue) optics instead of "Vitruvian" black, red(orange).

If it comes to CPU load, Warframe is taking 30% total. So, there is plenty of ressources left.

So, my bottleneck is the Graphics card - which was high-end YEARS ago. 

Paid €70 for some upgrades (RAM and 1TB disk), rest was free for me (cost €350 for CPU, Mainboard, RAM, recycled the rest from my old rig).

That's the reason I had a warframe break for 1-2 years, instead of buying Plat each month, bought Parts instead.