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Edsim

2 SUGGESTIONS with benefits to "Endgame" vets and hopefully everyone else.

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Hi all,

First time posting noob with 200 in mission hours here. Take it as you will but I think this could be great to implement.

In my opinion competition makes everything better so both suggestions will have an element of that. Will try to keep this as short as I can so the devs read it.

  1. CLAN and/or ALLIANCE based competition. {PVE}

I suggest of a mission type where Clans can compete against each other, in real time, using the existing game modes like survival, ESO, etc. Making this a tournament style competition where each clan would send their A team to compete and climb the ladder. This would be something for the most experienced players who know how to make team compositions, min - max their builds, understand spawn timings to complete a certain objective.

The use of Squad Link could be used to display a real time score of the opponent teams progress while in match. This could be an elimination, point based or whatever the devs decide style tournament. As long as at the end of the round there is a winner picked who moves on in the bracket to compete in the rest of the tournament.

At the end of the tournament the winning clan is rewarded with a trophy which has the tournament number and participating members related to it. This can be displayed in the dojo and the clans profile page. Would be cool to have a dedicated trophy room but that's for someone else to think about.

 

        2. FASHION FRAME competition.

A competition of the best looking customized frames in the game. As I imagine it, it would go something like this.

  • A warframe is picked to be the weeks competing fashion frame eg. Mesa
  • People submit their customized Mesas for the competition
  • Once submissions are complete people vote a top 10 or whatever
  • After the amount is reduced to top 3
  • Lastly the winner is picked
  • Rewarded, you guessed it, a trophy or whatever... gear unique color schemes. Whatever.

The Look Link tech shown on twitter would be great for this.

The names would be removed so as to not give an advantage to known players.

I can not say how to decide who gets to submit a design, that's for smarter minds to figure out. I would limit it to a reasonable amount so the judges(everyone) has an easier time.

 

Please tell me what you think and ask questions since I tried to keep this as short as possible. I think this will bring some much needed competition for those interested in battle and customization. Also it will  show off peoples skills and maybe give a bit more interest to the vets.

Cheers and thank you,

Ed

Edited by Edsim
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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Edsim said:

2.

I hate cliffhanger endings.

EDIT: Welp that was short-lived. Props to finishing up the post that quickly.

I’ll say that the fashion frame contest certainly sounds more accessible then clan competitions. Maybe have prizes for the runners-up as well.

We used to have several forms of clan competitions in the past, through Dark Sectors and leaderboards. I forget why they were removed as I wasn’t an active player during those times, but I wouldn’t be adverse to a reintroduction of Clan-based competitions or events as long as there’s framework for smaller clans to still have a chance at obtaining a reward. 

Edited by FrostPrime
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11 minutes ago, FrostPrime said:

I hate cliffhanger endings.

EDIT: Welp that was short-lived. Props to finishing up the post that quickly.

I’ll say that the fashion frame contest certainly sounds more accessible then clan competitions. Maybe have prizes for the runners-up as well.

We used to have several forms of clan competitions in the past, through Dark Sectors and leaderboards. I forget why they were removed as I wasn’t an active player during those times, but I wouldn’t be adverse to a reintroduction of Clan-based competitions or events as long as there’s framework for smaller clans to still have a chance at obtaining a reward. 

Sure, silver and bronze trophies would be a good addition. I'd suggest some other mats or prime parts as well (whatever seems balanced)

As for for the lower clans, there could be a tier based system depending on clan level or aggregated member MR. Shouldn't be too hard to figure out the balance so most people are included.

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il y a 34 minutes, Edsim a dit :

Hi all,

First time posting noob with 200 in mission hours here. Take it as you will but I think this could be great to implement.

A. In my opinion competition makes everything better so both suggestions will have an element of that. Will try to keep this as short as I can so the devs read it.

  1. CLAN and/or ALLIANCE based competition. {PVE}

B. I suggest of a mission type where Clans can compete against each other, in real time, using the existing game modes like survival, ESO, etc. Making this a tournament style competition where each clan would send their A team to compete and climb the ladder. This would be something for the most experienced players who know how to make team compositions, min - max their builds, understand spawn timings to complete a certain objective.

C. The use of Squad Link could be used to display a real time score of the opponent teams progress while in match. This could be an elimination, point based or whatever the devs decide style tournament. As long as at the end of the round there is a winner picked who moves on in the bracket to compete in the rest of the tournament.

D. At the end of the tournament the winning clan is rewarded with a trophy which has the tournament number and participating members related to it. This can be displayed in the dojo and the clans profile page. Would be cool to have a dedicated trophy room but that's for someone else to think about.

 

        2. FASHION FRAME competition.

E. A competition of the best looking customized frames in the game. As I imagine it, it would go something like this.

  • A warframe is picked to be the weeks competing fashion frame eg. Mesa
  • People submit their customized Mesas for the competition
  • Once submissions are complete people vote a top 10 or whatever
  • After the amount is reduced to top 3
  • Lastly the winner is picked
  • Rewarded, you guessed it, a trophy or whatever... gear unique color schemes. Whatever.

F. The Look Link tech shown on twitter would be great for this.

G. The names would be removed so as to not give an advantage to known players.

H. I can not say how to decide who gets to submit a design, that's for smarter minds to figure out. I would limit it to a reasonable amount so the judges(everyone) has an easier time.

 

Please tell me what you think and ask questions since I tried to keep this as short as possible. I think this will bring some much needed competition for those interested in battle and customization. Also it will  show off peoples skills and maybe give a bit more interest to the vets.

Cheers and thank you,

Ed

Hello There ! Welcome to the forums :)

I'll try to answer you, i hope i won't be too agressive, my point is to focus on what could be improved imo.

B. We already had events pve based where we could get a score for our clan, and trophies based on those results. 

There are leaderbords in the game already resetting each week you can find it through Profile =>leaderboards. There are mini games, endless, previous event stored there.

Only events used to have trophies though. Eso has it's own ranking too, same place.

The obvious advantage is that anyone can compete in this. Real time is kind of a bad thing for one reason... there's other stuff to do in the game, it's not just that one game mode. If you want to do trio, farming plants, fish, or other stuff related to IRL time it's getting difficult to say "i'm okay to be there on a regular basis at this time".

It's difficult to figure out who's "your elite" in a 1000people clan, and it would cause obvious trouble about people wanting to participating in that tournament. On the opposite side ghost clans are only max 10, would be hard to even get those people to be there at the same time for some.

I might be one of the most experienced player of my clan (I emphasize a lot on the might ! ;) yet, i hate to look into min maxing. Just grabbing what's working is fine by me, spending time calculating stuff isn't part of my enjoyment. Eventually we might have dedicated players who are not part of the team, but i would personnally feel bad that they're not part of the team themselves or extract me for them. Would be fine I guess, not much of a competitor anyway.

C. Squad link has been shown to be an optionnal pve thing to add interactivity between people of the same clan, using it as you suggest would require a completely different system.

Brackets sounds bad to me. Warframe is a "casual" game, for most of the game you can play it less than 20 Minutes by mission without any need to be there for an extended period of time. I play more than that, but with the real time aspect it would be a problem. 

If we're talking about pve, there's no need to do it in 1V1, you can go with as many teams as you want for your first round, go wild, i'd rather have one intense mission than a long succession.

D. Well here are a few things that can be problematic in my opinion. Let me clear them out :)

    At some points if a clan is participating a lot (which should be expected) there would be to many trophies.

    The fact you suggest names would be on it is a good and bad thing, if you're a low graded player (and in the team) if somehow there's a problem between you and leadership they might decide to either not show the trophie or in a more radical way kick you. (that's a thing). If the "only proof" you're good is in one dojo you can't access anymore, it won't be good for you would it ? At some point the clan page would be to crowded to make it relevant?

    Same problem with a trophie room, at some point it would be too crowded to find what you're looking for, might be cool but having a thousands of "top 1000" trophies wouldn't be so great, and if it's like a top 10 trophies, well nobody would get one and it would be as bad.

 

 

2 E. Why not? let's see implementation shall we ? :)

weekly. hmmm'kay eventually.

Would you get a limit there ? How would you decide who can/can't compete ? I mean, if you've to go trough 1000More (i'm being very very cautious with this number) each week it's becoming very tedious, and fashion is extremely subjective right ? It's not an easy thing to say whose are the best on such a scale, and considering how popular Fashionframe seem to be, you could expect much much more entries.

You might eventually "hide who's who" in the first part, the exact instant you set a very limited number, it  becomes very easy to know who's who, at this very moment, people will vote for the one they know (especially if they're from the same clan, or the streamer they like)

I kinda feel that a trophy would be "lame", gear is a bad idea, if you're talking about stuff that provides mastery, if you're talking about platinum stuff like slots/skins/color palette, you would see even more entries, hell, if this become a thing, me who don't really care about my skins would get in, raising the number of entries. 

I don't know about you, but i'm not seeing myself looking trough thousands of entries each week, i'd rather, you know play the game ?

About the skin link, it would be easy to find out who made the entry, making the whole process a who's more popular thingie than an actual "fashion" contest.

 

And here's the core of the problem, who can get in? Everyone can customize their warframe, so technically anyone could get in, but it would be impossible to manage. And if you only do with a preselection it would inevitably go trough popular people in the beginning. I'm not really for granting rewards for popularity, it already has advantages like this.

 

Sorry for this long answer, felt like there was a lot to address, in the meantime i suggest you to take a look in those leaderboards, there's no "extrinseque " reward for those but if you want your name on the top somewhere that's where you gotta go for now :)

 

 

    

 

 

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Hey, thanks for the response. I'll do my best to address your points:)

13 hours ago, AkyFenrir said:

B. We already had events pve based where we could get a score for our clan, and trophies based on those results. 

There are leaderbords in the game already resetting each week you can find it through Profile =>leaderboards. There are mini games, endless, previous event stored there.

Only events used to have trophies though. Eso has it's own ranking too, same place.

The obvious advantage is that anyone can compete in this. Real time is kind of a bad thing for one reason... there's other stuff to do in the game, it's not just that one game mode. If you want to do trio, farming plants, fish, or other stuff related to IRL time it's getting difficult to say "i'm okay to be there on a regular basis at this time".

It's nice to see they already have a leaderboard system. Although, it seems very dry and uninteresting. I guess my suggestion would be an upgrade or an addition to the system. Honestly I'd rather have it separate.

I understand that people can do other stuff. The same way players choose what to prioritize in their activities, the same way they would have to prioritize this. Also, since the veterans have very little to do in the game this would easily fit in their runs. In order to see the amount of people participating I suggest requiring teams or team leaders to craft an entry key as a form of registration process. This could be done a few days before. The event date and time window would be displayed so players have time to prepare. Similar to how players wait every week for Baro to arrive and swarm to the trader when he's there. 

13 hours ago, AkyFenrir said:

It's difficult to figure out who's "your elite" in a 1000people clan, and it would cause obvious trouble about people wanting to participating in that tournament. On the opposite side ghost clans are only max 10, would be hard to even get those people to be there at the same time for some.

This would have to be determined by the clan leader. Since well... their the leader. Maybe "elite"is a strong word. More like players who are most active, able to communicate, have the desire to represent the clan. It would be up to the leader to decide. Every clan can have their own system of choosing this is just a suggestion.

I think ghost clans would be strengthened with this kind of competition. It would require more communication and forethought on their part. Of course not all would be able to participate but this would give an incentive for these clans to find active players. I assume many people would join clans for this reason alone which would help players make new relationships.

13 hours ago, AkyFenrir said:

C. Squad link has been shown to be an optionnal pve thing to add interactivity between people of the same clan, using it as you suggest would require a completely different system.

Brackets sounds bad to me. Warframe is a "casual" game, for most of the game you can play it less than 20 Minutes by mission without any need to be there for an extended period of time. I play more than that, but with the real time aspect it would be a problem. 

If we're talking about pve, there's no need to do it in 1V1, you can go with as many teams as you want for your first round, go wild, i'd rather have one intense mission than a long succession.

From the livestream I gathered that squad link is able to transfer data between at least 2 squads in real time. That's all that is required.

The next bracket would be held the following day. Allowing them to get back to their daily activities. I also think it would be a good idea to allow different teams or team members to join the following brackets to allow more people and help with scheduling.

The 1v1 aspect is to give the sense of real time competition. To clarify I'm talking about many 1v1s happening at the same time or in the allotted time frame.

13 hours ago, AkyFenrir said:

 

D. Well here are a few things that can be problematic in my opinion. Let me clear them out 🙂

    At some points if a clan is participating a lot (which should be expected) there would be to many trophies.

    The fact you suggest names would be on it is a good and bad thing, if you're a low graded player (and in the team) if somehow there's a problem between you and leadership they might decide to either not show the trophie or in a more radical way kick you. (that's a thing). If the "only proof" you're good is in one dojo you can't access anymore, it won't be good for you would it ? At some point the clan page would be to crowded to make it relevant?

    Same problem with a trophie room, at some point it would be too crowded to find what you're looking for, might be cool but having a thousands of "top 1000" trophies wouldn't be so great, and if it's like a top 10 trophies, well nobody would get one and it would be as bad.

This seems like a very simple issue to fix by just allowing the clans to customize their trophy room and profile like they are able to customize everything else. It is not mandatory to display a trophy.

People who have left or have been kicked from a clan would have their names removed. If there are no names left on the trophy would be dissolved or sent to some graveyard.

And yes I'm not suggesting the top 1000 or even 100 gets a trophy, maybe a participation reward of some sorts. Top ten would be great imo since it would have a lot of value. Making the owners stand out from the crowd. Otherwise if everyone's a winner it would kind of defeat the point of competing in the first place. If everyone's a winner then no one is:)

14 hours ago, AkyFenrir said:

 

2 E. Why not? let's see implementation shall we ? 🙂

weekly. hmmm'kay eventually.

Would you get a limit there ? How would you decide who can/can't compete ? I mean, if you've to go trough 1000More (i'm being very very cautious with this number) each week it's becoming very tedious, and fashion is extremely subjective right ? It's not an easy thing to say whose are the best on such a scale, and considering how popular Fashionframe seem to be, you could expect much much more entries.

As I said I don't have the answer yet on how to pick the initial pool of participants but I think with some thought we can figure it out. Maybe have an entry requirement like a craftable or a mission before the competition starts. This would already put a cap on the number of participating frames.

Then the judges (all players) would be presented a bunch of frames to choose from maybe 5-10 at a time. From this bunch they select their 1-3 top picks. They can choose to be presented another bunch until there is enough information averaged through the server to determine the most popular frame designs.

You're right that fashion is subjective but the beauty of averaging (or applying some algorithm) is that we can find a patter on which frames stand out. The next few days can be used select the winner.

14 hours ago, AkyFenrir said:

 

You might eventually "hide who's who" in the first part, the exact instant you set a very limited number, it  becomes very easy to know who's who, at this very moment, people will vote for the one they know (especially if they're from the same clan, or the streamer they like)

I don't think this would be a major problem but nonetheless I'll try to offer some solutions.

  • If the last round is only 5 people we can solve this by rewarding the equally and call it a day (not too interesting)
  • We can invite a handful of players who are unrelated to the last contestants (not in the clan or friends list) to a judging area like a catwalk or something to be the final judges. Since the last remaining participants would all have amazing looking frames, the final judgement would still reflect the majority of the opinion.
  • We can encourage the popularity contest by reveling the names allowing their reputation or popularity to be taken into consideration. Maybe people would vote for the underdog or choose to go with the mainstream popular candidate. (could be very interesting)
14 hours ago, AkyFenrir said:

 

I kinda feel that a trophy would be "lame", gear is a bad idea, if you're talking about stuff that provides mastery, if you're talking about platinum stuff like slots/skins/color palette, you would see even more entries, hell, if this become a thing, me who don't really care about my skins would get in, raising the number of entries. 

I'm not set on the rewards. I would probably have to be something that fashion oriented players like.

14 hours ago, AkyFenrir said:

 

I don't know about you, but i'm not seeing myself looking trough thousands of entries each week, i'd rather, you know play the game ?

I'd enjoy doing it:) Everyone's different and sometimes I just find myself sitting around thinking what to do. In that time opening an event page a clicking through some frames would be a nice distraction. Would probably take a few minutes at most. Participation is not mandatory:D

14 hours ago, AkyFenrir said:

 

About the skin link, it would be easy to find out who made the entry, making the whole process a who's more popular thingie than an actual "fashion" contest.

I'm not very familiar with how this system will work so can't say if it would be easy to tell who's who. But of course it could be tailored to make it more fair for the competition. It seems like the system would benefit from this sort of an event. Almost like it was made for it. And of course it doesn't need to be used to still make the competition interesting.

14 hours ago, AkyFenrir said:

 

And here's the core of the problem, who can get in? Everyone can customize their warframe, so technically anyone could get in, but it would be impossible to manage. And if you only do with a preselection it would inevitably go trough popular people in the beginning. I'm not really for granting rewards for popularity, it already has advantages like this.

Again, probably a crafting requirement would be enough to get a pool of people. Also, we can balance the amount of people who can get in by decreasing or increasing the craftables cost.

14 hours ago, AkyFenrir said:

 

Sorry for this long answer, felt like there was a lot to address, in the meantime i suggest you to take a look in those leaderboards, there's no "extrinseque " reward for those but if you want your name on the top somewhere that's where you gotta go for now 🙂

Haha no problem, thanks for your response:) The leaderboards look kind of lame as they are now I'll mine some rocks :DDD

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il y a 5 minutes, Edsim a dit :

Hey, thanks for the response. I'll do my best to address your points:)

It's nice to see they already have a leaderboard system. Although, it seems very dry and uninteresting. I guess my suggestion would be an upgrade or an addition to the system. Honestly I'd rather have it separate.

I understand that people can do other stuff. The same way players choose what to prioritize in their activities, the same way they would have to prioritize this. Also, since the veterans have very little to do in the game this would easily fit in their runs. In order to see the amount of people participating I suggest requiring teams or team leaders to craft an entry key as a form of registration process. This could be done a few days before. The event date and time window would be displayed so players have time to prepare. Similar to how players wait every week for Baro to arrive and swarm to the trader when he's there. 

Yep there's nothing to gain from it, doesn't make it uninteresting for everyone though :)

"Veterans have very little to do" well, there's truth and wrong on this statement. At this point i'm on the riven grind, eidolons, arbitration, farming platinum trough relics, helping new players from my clan. Wouldn't say that there's very little to do. Point it it's a very repetitive game loop at this point, and it's not liked by everyone.

One of the big advantages of warframes to me is the fact i don't have to be there for a long sustained period of time, 1V1 tournaments require you to be there for a few hours, that's why i'm not a huge fan of those. Baro is every 2 weeks.

il y a 6 minutes, Edsim a dit :

This would have to be determined by the clan leader. Since well... their the leader. Maybe "elite"is a strong word. More like players who are most active, able to communicate, have the desire to represent the clan. It would be up to the leader to decide. Every clan can have their own system of choosing this is just a suggestion.

I think ghost clans would be strengthened with this kind of competition. It would require more communication and forethought on their part. Of course not all would be able to participate but this would give an incentive for these clans to find active players. I assume many people would join clans for this reason alone which would help players make new relationships.

Well, one of my teammates just left the clan, and if I were to do tournaments i would do it with her. So linking tournaments to a clan isn't a good idea, it's limiting and would cause problems. It's easy to do a team of for when you've 10 people, but wouldn't be fair to make them compete against dozens of team from a moon clan? Of course we could go with the Dojo competition system, doing it by size clan.

il y a 6 minutes, Edsim a dit :

From the livestream I gathered that squad link is able to transfer data between at least 2 squads in real time. That's all that is required.

The next bracket would be held the following day. Allowing them to get back to their daily activities. I also think it would be a good idea to allow different teams or team members to join the following brackets to allow more people and help with scheduling.

The 1v1 aspect is to give the sense of real time competition. To clarify I'm talking about many 1v1s happening at the same time or in the allotted time frame.

So you're suggesting a "seasonal" tournament than? What to do when people from your team go somewhere else, leave the clan, can't play anymore? You replace them with different players who did nothing to get there ? Really curious about this one

il y a 6 minutes, Edsim a dit :

his seems like a very simple issue to fix by just allowing the clans to customize their trophy room and profile like they are able to customize everything else. It is not mandatory to display a trophy.

 People who have left or have been kicked from a clan would have their names removed. If there are no names left on the trophy would be dissolved or sent to some graveyard.

And yes I'm not suggesting the top 1000 or even 100 gets a trophy, maybe a participation reward of some sorts. Top ten would be great imo since it would have a lot of value. Making the owners stand out from the crowd. Otherwise if everyone's a winner it would kind of defeat the point of competing in the first place. If everyone's a winner then no one is:)

 

Let's speculate something improbable for argument sake here, let's say i'm in a team that get a trophy, than for some reason I leave the clan or i'm kicked, there would be no traces left of my accomplishment?

On a more realistic level i know i'd probably never get one of those trophies but can't deny the fact that achievement such as winning this kind of tournaments should not disappear, it becomes part of the game. Or it's poorly implemented.

il y a 6 minutes, Edsim a dit :

As I said I don't have the answer yet on how to pick the initial pool of participants but I think with some thought we can figure it out. Maybe have an entry requirement like a craftable or a mission before the competition starts. This would already put a cap on the number of participating frames.

Then the judges (all players) would be presented a bunch of frames to choose from maybe 5-10 at a time. From this bunch they select their 1-3 top picks. They can choose to be presented another bunch until there is enough information averaged through the server to determine the most popular frame designs.

You're right that fashion is subjective but the beauty of averaging (or applying some algorithm) is that we can find a patter on which frames stand out. The next few days can be used select the winner.

 

Depending how costly this key would be, it would mean people who play a lot would be there, not necessarly the most "cool looking" frames. Skill in a mission should have nothing to do with a warframe look either imo. If it's 5 to 10 i would be able to handle it for sure, but there's a few flaws here. 

First it would be a luck game, if you're in a set with poor fashion you win, if you're in a set with comparable, well you might loose despite the fact you might be one of the best. Average information is a dangerous thing. Doesn't reflect much right ? How long would it last ? I would loose interest if  this competition stands more than a week, unless if there's some kind of things rewarding voting?

il y a 6 minutes, Edsim a dit :

I don't think this would be a major problem but nonetheless I'll try to offer some solutions.

  • If the last round is only 5 people we can solve this by rewarding the equally and call it a day (not too interesting)
  • We can invite a handful of players who are unrelated to the last contestants (not in the clan or friends list) to a judging area like a catwalk or something to be the final judges. Since the last remaining participants would all have amazing looking frames, the final judgement would still reflect the majority of the opinion.
  • We can encourage the popularity contest by reveling the names allowing their reputation or popularity to be taken into consideration. Maybe people would vote for the underdog or choose to go with the mainstream popular candidate. (could be very interesting)

 

There's a lot of streamers out there who are not accepting their viewers as friends, would kinda force this behavior, not sure it's a good thing for them, not a streamer though, would be something to see with them? (since they're basically the ones with popularity not being in friends/clan they would win i suppose or get some advantage?

There's a reason why unpopular people never get the "most beautiful" prize anywhere, so i'll never expect one underdog to win ever.

il y a 6 minutes, Edsim a dit :

I'm not set on the rewards. I would probably have to be something that fashion oriented players like.

I'd enjoy doing it:) Everyone's different and sometimes I just find myself sitting around thinking what to do. In that time opening an event page a clicking through some frames would be a nice distraction. Would probably take a few minutes at most. Participation is not mandatory:D

I'm not very familiar with how this system will work so can't say if it would be easy to tell who's who. But of course it could be tailored to make it more fair for the competition. It seems like the system would benefit from this sort of an event. Almost like it was made for it. And of course it doesn't need to be used to still make the competition interesting.

 

That's the problem here, All the fun about fashion is you can do it easily, it's a lot about color schemes and mixing. Giving more colors would advantage them for next context, you might eventually give platinum to them but endgame players can get anything they want in platinum at some point. So for vets wouldn't be such a good thing, for new players acquiring new palettes or platinum would help them for sure. If you reveal the names, those new players won't win.

il y a 6 minutes, Edsim a dit :

Again, probably a crafting requirement would be enough to get a pool of people. Also, we can balance the amount of people who can get in by decreasing or increasing the craftables cost.

Making access to a color contest by grinding ressources wouldn't be a good entry. You wouldn't do a french spelling test to figure out if you can follow an advanced math class right ?

il y a 6 minutes, Edsim a dit :

 Haha no problem, thanks for your response:) The leaderboards look kind of lame as they are now I'll mine some rocks :DDD

I hope you enjoy mining, there's a litteral mine to mine to craft everything related 🥳

 

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