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(PS4)Bigboodyjuudy

Can we talk about the host issues in Warframe

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)Bigboodyjuudy said:

Quite clearly said 50MB's. I know the difference between megabytes and megabits thank you very much. 

Alright, let's say it's the host with potato internet so what do you want to do? It's the host fault so who's to blame then if not the host?

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1 minute ago, Fallen77 said:

I'll won't argue anymore since you're willfully ignoring most arguments.

But this... This... If it is THIS rare, what are even complaining about in the first place ? Really ? This is normal for games to have hickups, and 3 rewards lost in a thousand hours... Oh poor you...

I was going from the basic complaint of "87% of host migrations are failling" that you see twice a week (quoted from a fairly recent thread). At least I understand why those guys want to vent out their frustration.

But you barely missed anything here, this is laughable. A big problem ? Yeah... Completely unreasonnable expectations much...

3 occasions where I missed out on rewards, one in a 2 hour survival not being a big deal? As rare as it may be, thats a poor reason to dismiss it as not being an issue that needs attention brought and fixed. 

Your counterpoints are weak mate. 

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, 844448 said:

Alright, let's say it's the host with potato internet so what do you want to do? It's the host fault so who's to blame then if not the host?

 

No its not the hosts fault particularly. Internet hiccups happen. Its the fault of the system for host migrations for not putting those other 3 players back together. Thats my argument if you had actually taken the time to read it, was my stance from the beginning in the OP. Hasnt changed one bit. 

Edited by (PS4)Bigboodyjuudy

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I mean with some places in the world having dedicated servers would have the same problems that peer to peer has to them. depending on how far they would be to the servers run by DE they would still d/c or fail host migrate. So in the end the players would still have these issues with dedicated servers. At this point I dont think that would help much other than offer less host migrations failures because of bad players internet. It would just be changed to players disconnecting to DE servers. So DE would just be taking the cost of running servers and  they would have players with the same reward issues like before.

 

I think they should have more fail-safes to save rewards. DE should be aiming to save rewards more often so even with host migrations you dont lose the work you put into the mission. This problem has more to it then just having the servers record the rewards more though. I mean its probably more complex then I am thinking it would be to add in more fail safes.

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il y a une heure, (PS4)Bigboodyjuudy a dit :

3 occasions where I missed out on rewards, one in a 2 hour survival not being a big deal? As rare as it may be, thats a poor reason to dismiss it as not being an issue that needs attention brought and fixed. 

That's what I'm saying, out of a thousand hours, big flipping deal there.

Even if all 3 occurences where 5x3 nights, over such a big period, I would still qualify it as petty concern.

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7 minutes ago, Fallen77 said:

That's what I'm saying, out of a thousand hours, big flipping deal there.

Even if all 3 occurences where 5x3 nights, over such a big period, I would still qualify it as petty concern.

 

Well you and I have very different views then, because time is a valuable commodity that you cannot get back so losing 5 or so hours is certainly a big deal for me, given that I don't have a lot of free time to begin with. 

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, (XB1)Dex Xean said:

I mean with some places in the world having dedicated servers would have the same problems that peer to peer has to them. depending on how far they would be to the servers run by DE they would still d/c or fail host migrate. So in the end the players would still have these issues with dedicated servers. At this point I dont think that would help much other than offer less host migrations failures because of bad players internet. It would just be changed to players disconnecting to DE servers. So DE would just be taking the cost of running servers and  they would have players with the same reward issues like before.

 

I think they should have more fail-safes to save rewards. DE should be aiming to save rewards more often so even with host migrations you dont lose the work you put into the mission. This problem has more to it then just having the servers record the rewards more though. I mean its probably more complex then I am thinking it would be to add in more fail safes.

 

Of course I get your point, I can't say if Dedicated servers would help any more than the current system, thats why I didnt say we should get rid of peer to peer. They should just keep improving it instead. 

Edited by (PS4)Bigboodyjuudy

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, (PS4)Bigboodyjuudy said:

 

Of course I get your point, I can't say if Dedicated servers would help anymore, thats why I didnt say we should get rid of peer to peer. They should just keep improving it instead. 

Well DE glen during Tennocon when he was streaming himself actually talk about the host stuff and said the Peer 2 peer was as good as it got and almost all d/c(host migration failures) was cause of players internet then things on their side. Which at this point I think only have additional saving of rewards during missions instead of just at the very end of missions is the best solution we will get. That might tax servers though to have more saves so Im not even sure if that is viable.

Edited by (XB1)Dex Xean
forgot to mention D/c Im talking about host migration

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9 hours ago, (PS4)Bigboodyjuudy said:

Ok well you can claim I do not know the minute details, that is your assumption and you're entitled. I could just as well say the same about you. 

 No, I'm actually suggesting that you don't understand the basics of what you're trying to discuss. I am saying this because quite a lot of what you have said displays a lack of understanding about the ways for host migrations to happen. 

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I know what the term rage quitting means, do not try to act smart. Rage quitting can be as simple as quitting from a match in a game or closing the application completely. As I said, you should have elaborated on what you meant. Your fault, not mine. 

Yeah that's not fooling anyone. Leaving a squad won't magically cause host migration to fail. 

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Your catastrophic ending example claims that the fault for the game not reconnecting you back to the host is a fault of the player. Since you're making a claim, as the saying goes: burden of proof lies on you to prove it, so prove it. 

That works if I'm making an extraordinary claim. What I'm saying is, or should be, basic knowledge. The fact that you are demanding that I prove that catastrophic failure would cause a failure in host migration is, rather telling. 

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The pause when you are loaded in is actually all of the map data being generated (if you didnt know maps are procedurally generated) and loaded in. Thats not to say its all rendered in at once. Warframe like a lot of games these days uses a rendering method called culling, which renders only what the player can see, the process is very fast and efficient which is why you won't notice it take place. Feel free to look up culling, its very interesting. 

You know that the map is generated only once, right? And I specified the pause that we get when a player joins the squad during a match in progress. That's a time when the additional communication like what you suggest is the solution to the problem has to happen. Culling, fog of war, rendering objects only when were looking at them, none of those can be blamed when you're standing on Seimeni, not changing direction, and get that little pause just as player 4 joins in. 

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I'm aware that the host is an active player but theres no reason why Warframe couldn't send the information individually to each player when other games can and do it such as For Honor which also uses peer to peer. 

I saw someone explaining to you that you don't know what you're talking about with regards to that game. Hopefully you understand what's wrong with what you are suggesting. (Especially since what you are suggesting is p2p is literally the opposite of p2p. Let that sink in, please.) 

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Lastly, can you prove that the doors only opening to hosts and not players is a lag issue and not a host issue? 

Do you understand what causes lag? 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Bigboodyjuudy said:

 

iTz yOUr InTerNet. 

 

How? How is it my internet? You have yet to explain how host issues are caused by ME and not THE HOST. How are doors being locked to anyone other than the host my problem? You realise that is a matter of fact a host problem, nothing to do with the other player.

This is tied to what causes lag. You can have blazing fast internet to your ISP. Any number is possible, in theory with the right hardware between you and them. Past that, the internet is a jumble of pipes that you have to navigate through, to ge to the host. In my county it's common for an ISP to promise me the world, but I know due to our geography, how they have run their infrastructure into my area, and the nature of our connections to the outside world, that they're not going to be able to deliver. 

In order to prove to gullible customers that they're delivering the speeds they promise, some of the bigger ones have put up speed test nodes, which due to proximity, (they are literally in the same building that your intent "connects" to,) will show blazing speeds. Of course checking one of the other available nodes will reveal a vastly different picture, even if that node is physically just a couple of miles away. 

The issue is those pipes that connect the two aren't great, and may suffer transient issues which can't be predicted. One of the examples of catastrophic failure I gave, showed how a single player, whose pipeline to the host gets broken, will be able suffer a host migration failure. You should probably revisit it. 

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Also as a matter of fact, yes I do get 10 ping on every other game, no I do not have wifi, I use high speed fiber with average speeds of over 50MBs so no, don't blame my internet. That's always the go to excuse of every forum warrior to shift any blame from DE or any other gaming company whenever people complain about their online experience. Frankly tired of that dried up, copy paste response. 

See above. Short of testing the connection between you and your host, those speeds are meaningless. 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Bigboodyjuudy said:

Can you prove that it is my Internet? No so thus the argument is at a stalemate. I see this tactic being used in every single game I've seen complaints of online multiplayer. Forum warriors are quick to rush and blame the players, despite the amount of numerous other complaints, many of which have garnered over hundreds to thousands of upvotes on reddit oh but what am I saying of course its just an isolated issue with that player and their "terrible internet". 

It's not up to us to do so, and would be meaningless in any case. The fact that you claim only a few failed migrations suggests that your connection to the Internet is not a major issue. That said, it's not the same as saying that you will always have a great connection to any given host. 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Bigboodyjuudy said:

How is it not their fault? 

Host left, migration failed. Who's to blame here the user? For the migration failing which the player had no input on its decision? Come off it mate, thats a absurd argument. 

Again you're showing that you don't understand how an internet connection works. There are usually dozens of little boxes talking to one another between you and the host at any given time. If any of those, or just the pipelines between them has a serious problem that can't be easily resolved, then you're going to have an issue. 

Who's to blame for that? The host? DE? 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Bigboodyjuudy said:

I know how servers work, I don't however know how DEs servers work. Big difference there. Maybe you shouldn't try to twist my argument, you should know better than to do that shameful tactic. 

Honestly, that part that I emphasized is a claim that I'm having trouble believing. A lot of what you have said suggests that you don't really know how they work. 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Bigboodyjuudy said:

You're right its not on me to do cost calculations. Maybe DE has maybe DE hasn't, I can't claim either way, I dont work for DE. 

There have been several threads where people have done back of the envelope calculations. Most people who tried seemed to decide that the numbers they were seeing were 'very large'. You're free to try to emulate them. 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Bigboodyjuudy said:

Tell me. Why are you treat DE as if they can do absolutely no wrong. You do realise companies dont give you any good boy tokens for defending them. It doesnt pay to be a shill. 

Who is giving you a token for suggesting that's what people are doing? 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Bigboodyjuudy said:

No its not the hosts fault particularly. Internet hiccups happen. Its the fault of the system for host migrations for not putting those other 3 players back together. Thats my argument if you had actually taken the time to read it, was my stance from the beginning in the OP. Hasnt changed one bit. 

You get that those 'internet hiccups' you suggest are a thing, literally explain why you occasionally get failures in host migrations? I mean, seriously, think about it. 

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22 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

nice read

At the end, while you have great points that @(PS4)Bigboodyjuudy still need to understand, there is one thing that all of us need to do:

Give feedback in the right section. 

All this is on DE matchmaking algorithm, spend 2-3 months in public (I did about 3 years ago), ask where others are from, time of day/night/player traffic; it just needs to stop putting high ping squads together for the sake of creating squads (ignoring ping limits/location/etc).

Suggesting how to change the system to create a complete new monster might not be the right way to go about it, improving existing system might be possible.

Been telling this to players  with same issues for over 2 years, but those with the issue are so few, and not getting together on one post, that it is easy for DE to dismiss as within margin of error.

 

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28 minutes ago, Souldend78 said:

. All this is on DE matchmaking algorithm, spend 2-3 months in public (I did about 3 years ago), ask where others are from, time of day/night/player traffic; it just needs to stop putting high ping squads together for the sake of creating squads (ignoring ping limits/location/etc).

How do you stop putting high ping players together, if pings vary over time, and transient issues can be a thing?

 

And please bear in mind, due to the nature of the routing paths ISPS use, geographic location can be misleading. My neighbour on one side of me uses the same ISP that I do. My neighbour across the street uses a different one. 

The path from me to the guy next door, is relatively short, a couple of miles, round trip. The path from me to the guy across the road, actually goes to a different continent before coming back some of the time (because it's literally still faster than the shorter path within my country because our ISPS dgaf). 

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10 hours ago, Fallen77 said:

It's DE's fault if you have potato internet ? Yeah sure, no matter how bad your connection is, it is their responsibility to fix it, simplifies things quite a lot indeed, if only it made any sense...

Nevermind that, if your setup can't send or receive data fast enough, no improvement on their side will ever improve your base internet speed.

100% their fault ? Really ? You are completely delusionnal, it's not DE's job to upgrade your internet. If having a good gaming experience is a life priority, try puting the work in on your side first, before crying that someone else is not catering to you.

I am yet to see a "I have flawless connection in every game I play but Warframe", it's always just " DE fix your game" without any consideration for any other factor.

When I had slow internet, I was lagging in all sorts of game, P2P or not. And when I upgraded it, I stopped lagging in every game, p2p or not. But it was luck then right ? Since it's 100% DE's fault, this improvement couldn't come from the efforts I made right ? Don't ever think on how to improve your situation, always put the blame on something else, that'll get you far in life !

Lets say a corporate business office somewhere has a networked fire response system. It has fire alarms, pull alarms, smoke detectors, fire suppression systems, all routed through one hub with multiple access points that will alert to trouble. This system is networked into the company internet network so that it will notify the corporate office as well as other relevant interested parties if there is an emergency. The problem is that the network connection is using the business primary internet access point that is being used by all users on that network, and that when certain people, with certain configurations, log in through the wifi, a conflict is created with the fire response system causing fire alarms to go off through out the building and all relevant parties to be alerted that there is a problem. This is especially bad because of "crying wolf" syndrome, where in the false alarms increase the likelihood that a valid alarm will be ignored. Also the frequent false alarms are resulting in the business being hit with fines from the local fire department. 

The company can play wack a mole trying to address user configurations here there and yonder, even when the problem tends to reset it's self every time someone's ip registration lapses and is reassigned by the router........ And the company can blame these frequent false alarms on the individual users all it likes. But. It is the management's responsibility to resolve the issue in a permanent way no matter who is at fault. Because no matter who is at fault, management is at fault that it is still happening. So management can play wack a mole resolving the problem each time it comes up, knowing it's just going to keep happening, or management can look at the fire system and try to resolve a way for it to stop happening all together. Either way the third time an executive is woken up in the middle of the night for a false alarm, there's going to be a new manager for that site. 

It does not matter where the problem is. At all. Period. All that matters is that it is still happening after years of people reporting the problem. That makes 100% of the responsibility belong to DE. 

So. Again. People can argue about who's fault the problem is, it's always going to be DE's fault that it is still a problem when they've known about it as long as they have and have done nothing to mitigate it. This is true in every single business around the world. When your boss calls you into his office and asks why something is still happening, and you try to move the blame onto someone else, he is either going to tell you "No, this is your responsibility to see it stops happening, I don't care who's fault it is, it's your job to make it stop happening", or more likely, he's just going to tell you he needs someone who is going to own their failings and correct them and have security show you out the flipping door. 

Tell me. What do you think would happen if valuable work product kept being lost in transmission, requiring teams to redo their work, causing deadlines to be missed, causing contracts to be lost, and the guy or gal who oversees the network just keeps saying "well the internet connection is bad.". One time can be forgiven. Twice can be understood. Three times you'll be looking for a new job. Because it doesn't matter who's fault it is that it happened, it's your fault that it /can/ happen. 

 

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50 minutes ago, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx said:

Lets say a corporate business office somewhere has a networked fire response system. It has fire alarms, pull alarms, smoke detectors, fire suppression systems, all routed through one hub with multiple access points that will alert to trouble. This system is networked into the company internet network so that it will notify the corporate office as well as other relevant interested parties if there is an emergency. The problem is that the network connection is using the business primary internet access point that is being used by all users on that network, and that when certain people, with certain configurations, log in through the wifi, a conflict is created with the fire response system causing fire alarms to go off through out the building and all relevant parties to be alerted that there is a problem. This is especially bad because of "crying wolf" syndrome, where in the false alarms increase the likelihood that a valid alarm will be ignored. Also the frequent false alarms are resulting in the business being hit with fines from the local fire department. 

The company can play wack a mole trying to address user configurations here there and yonder, even when the problem tends to reset it's self every time someone's ip registration lapses and is reassigned by the router........ And the company can blame these frequent false alarms on the individual users all it likes. But. It is the management's responsibility to resolve the issue in a permanent way no matter who is at fault. Because no matter who is at fault, management is at fault that it is still happening. So management can play wack a mole resolving the problem each time it comes up, knowing it's just going to keep happening, or management can look at the fire system and try to resolve a way for it to stop happening all together. Either way the third time an executive is woken up in the middle of the night for a false alarm, there's going to be a new manager for that site. 

It does not matter where the problem is. At all. Period. All that matters is that it is still happening after years of people reporting the problem. That makes 100% of the responsibility belong to DE. 

So. Again. People can argue about who's fault the problem is, it's always going to be DE's fault that it is still a problem when they've known about it as long as they have and have done nothing to mitigate it. This is true in every single business around the world. When your boss calls you into his office and asks why something is still happening, and you try to move the blame onto someone else, he is either going to tell you "No, this is your responsibility to see it stops happening, I don't care who's fault it is, it's your job to make it stop happening", or more likely, he's just going to tell you he needs someone who is going to own their failings and correct them and have security show you out the flipping door. 

Tell me. What do you think would happen if valuable work product kept being lost in transmission, requiring teams to redo their work, causing deadlines to be missed, causing contracts to be lost, and the guy or gal who oversees the network just keeps saying "well the internet connection is bad.". One time can be forgiven. Twice can be understood. Three times you'll be looking for a new job. Because it doesn't matter who's fault it is that it happened, it's your fault that it /can/ happen. 

 

Are you sure that you know the difference between an intranet and an internet. I'll give you a hint: ownership gives control. 

I have full control over my intranet. I could rip out the copper and replace it (I've done it before.) I could swap the hardware, or the firmware on the hardware. (Had to do it years ago when a cordless telephone kept interfering with the WiFi.) I could open ports, schedule downloading, assign priority to certain devices, and change frequency so as to occupy the least congested part of the spectrum. (Doesn't everyone?) 

But outside of my sphere of influence... On the various pipelines of the Internet.... The best I can do is try to tell the packets where to go, and hope for the best. 

True story, one day the DNS servers belonging to my ISP (both hosted on a single machine) went down. I was able to figure out what was going on, had a file with some numeric IPs for some proxy servers, was able to work my way through to a competing ISP and get their DNS server ip, and went that way instead. Now if you ask me why I didn't just call Tech Support most of whom knew me by name at that point, ask them to reboot the machine and solve the whole problem, well it was after hours so they were on a skeleton staff, and the phone lines were jammed up with thousands of pissed off customers for some reason. 

I made the call after logging off for the night. But the actual techs were all busy trying to figure out what the hell was wrong, and the phone jockey was having a ball trying to tell everyone to check their settings by "the script". I told him to write a note for one of the techs but when I called back in the morning apparently they'd never gotten it. 

They'd managed to get everything back up, but were unaware that it was the DNS server that had failed when I spoke to them. I explained how I knew that, and said that if they checked their logs and cache server they'd see that one person had been happily browsing for several hours and gave him 3 guesses as to who that one person was. The guy got it in one. 😂

 

Now, why tell you that story? To show that even though it would have been easy for me to fix, I couldn't just go into to a building that isn't mine and that I have no business in, and fiddle with the infrastructure of a company that I don't own, and don't work for. Just like DE can't fix the issues that crop up in parts of the internet that they do not have control over. 

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2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Are you sure that you know the difference between an intranet and an internet. I'll give you a hint: ownership gives control. 

I have full control over my intranet. I could rip out the copper and replace it (I've done it before.) I could swap the hardware, or the firmware on the hardware. (Had to do it years ago when a cordless telephone kept interfering with the WiFi.) I could open ports, schedule downloading, assign priority to certain devices, and change frequency so as to occupy the least congested part of the spectrum. (Doesn't everyone?) 

But outside of my sphere of influence... On the various pipelines of the Internet.... The best I can do is try to tell the packets where to go, and hope for the best. 

True story, one day the DNS servers belonging to my ISP (both hosted on a single machine) went down. I was able to figure out what was going on, had a file with some numeric IPs for some proxy servers, was able to work my way through to a competing ISP and get their DNS server ip, and went that way instead. Now if you ask me why I didn't just call Tech Support most of whom knew me by name at that point, ask them to reboot the machine and solve the whole problem, well it was after hours so they were on a skeleton staff, and the phone lines were jammed up with thousands of pissed off customers for some reason. 

I made the call after logging off for the night. But the actual techs were all busy trying to figure out what the hell was wrong, and the phone jockey was having a ball trying to tell everyone to check their settings by "the script". I told him to write a note for one of the techs but when I called back in the morning apparently they'd never gotten it. 

They'd managed to get everything back up, but were unaware that it was the DNS server that had failed when I spoke to them. I explained how I knew that, and said that if they checked their logs and cache server they'd see that one person had been happily browsing for several hours and gave him 3 guesses as to who that one person was. The guy got it in one. 😂

 

Now, why tell you that story? To show that even though it would have been easy for me to fix, I couldn't just go into to a building that isn't mine and that I have no business in, and fiddle with the infrastructure of a company that I don't own, and don't work for. Just like DE can't fix the issues that crop up in parts of the internet that they do not have control over. 

DE doesn't have to fix issues that crop up on the internet. No company, especially videogame company makes any effort to "Fix" problems on the internet. Expecting them to do that would be stupid. I don't get your point. 

What videogame companies that do this kind of game do is /plan/ for things to go wrong in the internet, and put contingencies in place to prevent those instabilities from creating problems. Having 100% of progress hosted on one person's session is obviously a bad idea and most companies simply do not do that. Seriously, what other modern game does this in the current generation?

Look. I'm going to need you to back down your threat level and give me an actual valid reason why DE should ignore this problem. You can blame who ever you want. But it is a problem, you can't escape that, and it's a problem going back years.

So... What? What is their motivating factor to deliberately screw players out of progress when it can pretty easily be avoided? Are you suggesting that DE is deliberately doing it to slow player progress?

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Am 18.8.2019 um 00:15 schrieb 844448:

I always get a success host migration, putting me back into the session when host leaving so if you keep getting back to menu it's your internet

"its your internet" .... sounds like the guy from my provider who has no idea. I have this issues too ans its pretty simple. When someone rage quit and he was host, no data will sent from him to select a new host. I get success host migration too mostly. But sometimes this isnt the case and in the end u simply have to hope that the host ll not rage quit. When i do arbitrations the first thing is i check who is host and if its a lower MR i ll quit. They rage quit much more then experienced player who know how to survive.

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On 2019-08-17 at 4:12 PM, WhiteMarker said:

 

Oh look... someone didn't use the search function. Awesome...

How would DE detect if someone disconnects due to a connection error? Or: What is a connection error to you?

And who would pay for the servers for people to play on?
How would DE determine how many players a server would have to handle? What would happen if the server is full? And where would the server be located? I can only assume that someone from Japan would rather disconnect if they had to play on a server located in Canada. The distance lagg would be horrible.
If servers were located around the world, how would they determine which server the team mates connect to, if you have a team with someone from let's say Germany, Japan and from the US. Where would be the best location for a server so that these three players can keep playing in the same lobby with no lagg issues?

And yes, when you want to talk about that matter, you have to come up with solutions for these problems.

Dont forget to ask how DE is supposed to make up for the huge financial expense solving all of those problems would entail.

Oh wait I know. The people who keep demanding de upgrade to dedicated servers want them to just eat the cost.

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Am 18.8.2019 um 01:43 schrieb (XB1)COA Altair:

Lost an aura forma to a failed host migration one time and wanted to chuck my controller through my TV.  My internet is fantastic by the way living in a suburb of minneapolis I'm not in sticksville, USA without good lines running through my house.  

I, too, hate it when doors break and don't let you through.  It is aggravating as heck not being able to go through a mission because of it.  No clue why it's still this way.  

I lost 2 Aura Forma already. I saved the video clip on my PS4, uploaded it to youtube and wrote to support twice. You can see in the video where i get the aura forma and u can see the host migration and the end screen where i get nothing. Even with video proof, data where and what i played and all ppl involved i did not get anything back. The only message i got was some copy pasta S#&$ like the problem could not be seen.

 

 whats so hard here not to understand when someone writes " lost aura forma, is there any chance to get it back" with that video attached and all data written down too

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1 hour ago, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx said:

DE doesn't have to fix issues that crop up on the internet. No company, especially videogame company makes any effort to "Fix" problems on the internet. Expecting them to do that would be stupid. I don't get your point. 

Peer to peer connections typically happen over something called "the Internet". If the connection fails, through no fault of the game company, because one of the magical boxes that the internet connection passes through is having trouble, then it's not something that the game company can do anything about. 

Get it now? 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx said:

What videogame companies that do this kind of game do is /plan/ for things to go wrong in the internet, and put contingencies in place to prevent those instabilities from creating problems. Having 100% of progress hosted on one person's session is obviously a bad idea and most companies simply do not do that. Seriously, what other modern game does this in the current generation?

Planning for unexpected, catastrophic failures is quite difficult, because in addition to the fact that they are catastrophic, they're also not what you are expecting. Now in case you don't actually notice what happens when you are playing, the host also relays information to the servers as you go along. The servers are the redundancy that you are claiming don't exist. They're why host migrations don't always fail. 

In case you didn't notice, the OP has made it very clear that they've only had a handful of host migrations fail in over a thousand hours of playing. I'd say that's a pretty good track record. I know that you'll find a way to hem and haw about that, but you are free to do you. 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx said:

Look. I'm going to need you to back down your threat level and give me an actual valid reason why DE should ignore this problem. You can blame who ever you want. But it is a problem, you can't escape that, and it's a problem going back years.

Threat level? Give you a reason for them to ignore it? Dunno what thread you've been reading here, but I'm actually just explaining why some of what people are spouting off about is nonsensical:

Thinking that fast internet means that you won't ever have problems with stuff like lag in a p2p setting; thinking that having a server communicate to all players at allegations of times is p2p; not grasping that these aren't simple fixes that DE can just magically implement; not grasping the concept of a catastrophic failure; not really doing anything other than sharpen pitchforks and say 'fix it now'; belief that servers will be a magical solution and not just another can of worms; thinking that they are sitting there plotting to screw you out of some petty reward, thinking that people have you on some sort of threat level.... That sort of nonsense. 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx said:

So... What? What is their motivating factor to deliberately screw players out of progress when it can pretty easily be avoided? Are you suggesting that DE is deliberately doing it to slow player progress?

Yeah that's nonsense, nobody is deliberately trying to screw anyone out of anything. This isn't anything that can be easily avoided. The only person who is suggesting that DE is trying to do it deliberately seems to be you. Why do you think any of these things when common sense would dictate that it's a ridiculous position to take? 

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1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Peer to peer connections typically happen over something called "the Internet". If the connection fails, through no fault of the game company, because one of the magical boxes that the internet connection passes through is having trouble, then it's not something that the game company can do anything about. 

Get it now? 

Planning for unexpected, catastrophic failures is quite difficult, because in addition to the fact that they are catastrophic, they're also not what you are expecting. Now in case you don't actually notice what happens when you are playing, the host also relays information to the servers as you go along. The servers are the redundancy that you are claiming don't exist. They're why host migrations don't always fail. 

In case you didn't notice, the OP has made it very clear that they've only had a handful of host migrations fail in over a thousand hours of playing. I'd say that's a pretty good track record. I know that you'll find a way to hem and haw about that, but you are free to do you. 

Threat level? Give you a reason for them to ignore it? Dunno what thread you've been reading here, but I'm actually just explaining why some of what people are spouting off about is nonsensical:

Thinking that fast internet means that you won't ever have problems with stuff like lag in a p2p setting; thinking that having a server communicate to all players at allegations of times is p2p; not grasping that these aren't simple fixes that DE can just magically implement; not grasping the concept of a catastrophic failure; not really doing anything other than sharpen pitchforks and say 'fix it now'; belief that servers will be a magical solution and not just another can of worms; thinking that they are sitting there plotting to screw you out of some petty reward, thinking that people have you on some sort of threat level.... That sort of nonsense. 

Yeah that's nonsense, nobody is deliberately trying to screw anyone out of anything. This isn't anything that can be easily avoided. The only person who is suggesting that DE is trying to do it deliberately seems to be you. Why do you think any of these things when common sense would dictate that it's a ridiculous position to take? 

So basically what you're saying is you have no valid reason, you don't actually know why DE hasn't corrected it, and you're just making totally unsupported assumptions about what's going on behind the scenes of a system you aren't administrating and know nothing of the architecture of. In other words you've just wasted my time.

There's an ignore feature around here somewhere, i know I have a menu that lists ignored users..

Has it occurred to you that all they really have to do is have a backup system on user side? No. Of course not. It's too obvious a solution.

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Il y a 2 heures, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx a dit :

So basically what you're saying is you have no valid reason, you don't actually know why DE hasn't corrected it, and you're just making totally unsupported assumptions about what's going on behind the scenes of a system you aren't administrating and know nothing of the architecture of. In other words you've just wasted my time.

There's an ignore feature around here somewhere, i know I have a menu that lists ignored users..

Has it occurred to you that all they really have to do is have a backup system on user side? No. Of course not. It's too obvious a solution.

You say he doesn't know the details of DE's systems, only to, as the internet random that you are, claim that you know what they can and cannot do. Hilarious.

You're just willfully ignoring any argument, it's sad. How hard can it be to understand, if YOUR internet slows down, it's not anyone's fault but YOURS.

What ? Can I call DE to do the paint of my car ? Or to fix my plumbing issues ? Indeed, it's much more easy than to do things by yourself.

But keep ignoring any logical fact, I'm having a good time over here.

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2 hours ago, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx said:

So basically what you're saying is you have no valid reason, you don't actually know why DE hasn't corrected it, and you're just making totally unsupported assumptions about what's going on behind the scenes of a system you aren't administrating and know nothing of the architecture of. In other words you've just wasted my time.

This is like talking to someone with a shattered mind. I made very simple, very clear statements. You quoted them and immediately start ranting, and suggest that I have said something that I have not said?

Yeah this conversation is definitely going to be wasted time. 

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