WoodedSkate89 Posted August 18, 2019 Author Share Posted August 18, 2019 4 minutes ago, (PS4)Shelneroth said: Personally I hope we save Lotus. While I understand some people want to kill her, I think the idea she must die is rather hyperbolic. There are plenty of reasons reuniting with Lotus might be valid. I feel like there should be an option 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)guzmantt1977 Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, (XB1)SixGunLove said: I see that you enjoy making points based on stories that come from ancient times in and previous millennium. Let me match it by quoting for you, a very famous story that is told about a man named, Cao Cao, who lived a long time ago in China: Though never exactly proven, it is said that Cao Cao escaped with one retainer, Chen Gong to the home of an old friend of his, perhaps his father's sworn brother, from whom he was able to beg shelter. He promised to protect him, then set out to gather materials for an evening feast. Cao Cao and Chen Gong hid themselves in a back room, where they chanced to overhear a discussion by some servants involving a murder plot. Assuming that his father's sworn brother had deceived him and intended to hand his corpse to Dong Zhuo for a reward, Cao Cao and Chen Gong burst in on the servants and proceeded to massacre the entire household, including the wife and children of his friend, whereupon he discovered that the "murder" he overheard pertained not to him, but to a pig intended as the centerpiece of the feast. Cao Cao and Chen Gong immediately fled but encountered his father's sworn brother returning from his errand at the house's front gate. When questioned, Cao Cao gave him the excuse of fear of having been followed as the reason for his abrupt departure, and when he turned to continue toward the house, Cao Cao again unsheathed his sword and stabbed him through the back. When questioned by Chen Gong as to the reason for such a horrible action, Cao Cao explained that if he had returned to the house and see what had been done, he would have immediately run to the authorities desiring vengeance for his family, and their plight would be even more precarious than it already was. Cao Cao then lifted high his bloody sword and made the quote that would forever secure his place as the foremost villain in Chinese popular literature: Ningjiao wo fu tianxia ren, xiujiao tianxia ren fu wo (寧教我負天下人，休教天下人負我), meaning "Better that I should wrong the world than that the world should wrong me." If you wish to know more, you can follow this link. Edit: In case anyone is unable to follow the story, I'm making a point where I show how someone can misinterpret what they are hearing, and decide they want to kill people who are loyal and mean them no harm. TL:DR; y'all done goofed and should go reevaluate yourselves. Edited August 18, 2019 by (PS4)guzmantt1977 Made clear in the post. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)robotwars7 Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 meh, depends on who will replace her. wouldn't mind Teshin, or maybe Nora. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodedSkate89 Posted August 18, 2019 Author Share Posted August 18, 2019 Just now, (PS4)robotwars7 said: meh, depends on who will replace her. wouldn't mind Teshin, or maybe Nora. I feel like something is going on with Nora. With all her dodgy transmissions. Look into it if you aren't aware. I feel like she has some demons Spoiler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodedSkate89 Posted August 18, 2019 Author Share Posted August 18, 2019 I don't really want a space mum who's waiting with me with her sword ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VotumPrime Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 I mean she doesn't really do much.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bl1te Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 I'm there with you, OP, but... Think about it. If we kill Natah, then there will be no soul in the game, no motivation to play next quests. The story will just end for us, because there is no main (after Tenno) character left. Even if DE create a new really massive quest, it would be 'empty' anyways, because the main story already ended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodedSkate89 Posted August 18, 2019 Author Share Posted August 18, 2019 4 minutes ago, VotumPrime said: I mean she doesn't really do much.... Well at the beginning she had guided us through everything. If you think about it, in the actual games universe she was the one setting the waypoints, telling ordis when to come extract us, and guiding us through every single mission 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Shelneroth Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 18 minutes ago, WoodedSkate89 said: I feel like something is going on with Nora. With all her dodgy transmissions. Look into it if you aren't aware. I feel like she has some demons Hide contents I think Lotus is somehow Nora. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADM-Ntek Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 24 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said: meh, depends on who will replace her. wouldn't mind Teshin, or maybe Nora. please don't let it be nora i would rather have Vey hek scream at me than have to hear that annoying *@##$. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodedSkate89 Posted August 18, 2019 Author Share Posted August 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, (PS4)Shelneroth said: I think Lotus is somehow Nora. we've seen lotus' face. She's white We've seen nora's face. She's black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)YoungGunn82 Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 (edited) 51 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said: I see that you enjoy making points based on stories that come from ancient times in and previous millennium. Let me match it by quoting for you, a very famous story that is told about a man named, Cao Cao, who lived a long time ago in China: Though never exactly proven, it is said that Cao Cao escaped with one retainer, Chen Gong to the home of an old friend of his, perhaps his father's sworn brother, from whom he was able to beg shelter. He promised to protect him, then set out to gather materials for an evening feast. Cao Cao and Chen Gong hid themselves in a back room, where they chanced to overhear a discussion by some servants involving a murder plot. Assuming that his father's sworn brother had deceived him and intended to hand his corpse to Dong Zhuo for a reward, Cao Cao and Chen Gong burst in on the servants and proceeded to massacre the entire household, including the wife and children of his friend, whereupon he discovered that the "murder" he overheard pertained not to him, but to a pig intended as the centerpiece of the feast. Cao Cao and Chen Gong immediately fled but encountered his father's sworn brother returning from his errand at the house's front gate. When questioned, Cao Cao gave him the excuse of fear of having been followed as the reason for his abrupt departure, and when he turned to continue toward the house, Cao Cao again unsheathed his sword and stabbed him through the back. When questioned by Chen Gong as to the reason for such a horrible action, Cao Cao explained that if he had returned to the house and see what had been done, he would have immediately run to the authorities desiring vengeance for his family, and their plight would be even more precarious than it already was. Cao Cao then lifted high his bloody sword and made the quote that would forever secure his place as the foremost villain in Chinese popular literature: Ningjiao wo fu tianxia ren, xiujiao tianxia ren fu wo (寧教我負天下人，休教天下人負我), meaning "Better that I should wrong the world than that the world should wrong me." If you wish to know more, you can follow this link. Nice story. My turn, and it's quite simple. "Sentients believe they must remove humanity from existence as humans (orokin mostly) are what destroys the environment and life on planets. They are the ultimate "hippies". They are genocidal and dangerous, no way they aren't "bad guys". People in this thread need to play the ropalolyst fight It was not Natah that betrayed the sentients to "save tenno". It was orokin who brainwashed her into doing it and becoming a mother for the tenno. She hasn't been now brainwashed by the sentients, she's simply free of orokin manipulation, that made her believe she loved the tenno. She never loved them of her own volition. She was always an enemy otherwise." @HugintheCrow The Natah tried to kill the Tenno not once, not twice but 3 times. Again.... SHE...WANTS...YOU...DEAD. Some of you in this thread are extremely niave. Edited August 18, 2019 by (XB1)SixGunLove 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodedSkate89 Posted August 18, 2019 Author Share Posted August 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, ADM-Ntek said: please don't let it be nora i would rather have Vey hek scream at me than have to hear that annoying *@##$. Omfg. They should just have an option to choose your future space mum. Vay Hek would be perfect for a parent's lecture. Meme I just made of that interaction: Spoiler 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)guzmantt1977 Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 6 minutes ago, (XB1)SixGunLove said: Nice story. My turn, and it's quite simple. "Sentients believe they must remove humanity from existence as humans (orokin mostly) are what destroys the environment and life on planets. They are the ultimate "hippies". They are genocidal and dangerous, no way they aren't "bad guys". People in this thread need to play the ropalolyst fight It was not Natah that betrayed the sentients to "save tenno". It was orokin who brainwashed her into doing it and becoming a mother for the tenno. She hasn't been now brainwashed by the sentients, she's simply free of orokin manipulation, that made her believe she loved the tenno. She never loved them of her own volition. She was always an enemy otherwise." @HugintheCrow The Natah tried to kill the Tenno not once, not twice but 3 times. Again.... SHE...WANTS...YOU...DEAD. And proving once again that you followed the story by not paying attention to it. We were all in her power for all of the time we were in cryosleep. She didn't kill us. We encountered her "father" and instead of saying "oh Daddy dearest, here are the lambs I have brought to the slaughter", she had us drop a bomb on him to lock him away again. She was surrounded by a phalanx of killer robots, and had just witnessed us stab what we take to be a valuable ally of her race. But instead of ordering them to target us while we were outside of the protection of our tin can, all that happened was a warning shot. She's saved us repeatedly. You know what the best part of brainwashing someone is? You're telling them what to believe. Do you really think that they would have said to their most valuable asset, the single most well informed being in our sphere of influence, a creature that was designed to be the perfect infiltrator, that she actually took care of us because she cares about us despite all of the plans they made? I suggest that you pay attention to the interaction that she had with her "mother" and then replay the ropalolyst fight. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodedSkate89 Posted August 18, 2019 Author Share Posted August 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said: And proving once again that you followed the story by not paying attention to it. We were all in her power for all of the time we were in cryosleep. She didn't kill us. We encountered her "father" and instead of saying "oh Daddy dearest, here are the lambs I have brought to the slaughter", she had us drop a bomb on him to lock him away again. She was surrounded by a phalanx of killer robots, and had just witnessed us stab what we take to be a valuable ally of her race. But instead of ordering them to target us while we were outside of the protection of our tin can, all that happened was a warning shot. She's saved us repeatedly. You know what the best part of brainwashing someone is? You're telling them what to believe. Do you really think that they would have said to their most valuable asset, the single most well informed being in our sphere of influence, a creature that was designed to be the perfect infiltrator, that she actually took care of us because she cares about us despite all of the plans they made? I suggest that you pay attention to the interaction that she had with her "mother" and then replay the ropalolyst fight. And at the same time of this, she was helping the sentients by having us eliminate the other factions under the pretense of keeping balance in the system. Something Ballas criticized her for in the Chimera Prologue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)YoungGunn82 Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said: We were all in her power for all of the time we were in cryosleep. She didn't kill us. 51 minutes ago, (XB1)SixGunLove said: It was orokin who brainwashed her into doing it and becoming a mother for the tenno. 23 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said: was a warning shot. Absolutely not a warning shot. Umbra saved you. Watch it again. 23 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said: She's saved us repeatedly. It is not I who needs to pay attention. 23 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said: Do you really think that they would have said to their most valuable asset, the single most well informed being in our sphere of influence, a creature that was designed to be the perfect infiltrator, that she actually took care of us because she cares about us despite all of the plans they made? To a answer your question. Basically Yes. 1. The Orokin designed the Sentients. That said, 51 minutes ago, (XB1)SixGunLove said: She hasn't been now brainwashed by the sentients, she's simply free of orokin manipulation, that made her believe she loved the tenno. She never loved them of her own volition. Your conjecture cannot refute what is. The Natah and the Sentient Destroyer of worlds The Hunhow is the enemy of the Tenno. Always has been. The Orokin are extinct. Time to tie up loose ends with the Sentients. Starting with the Natah. Edited August 18, 2019 by (XB1)SixGunLove 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KokoroWish Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 Redemption = blessed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodedSkate89 Posted August 18, 2019 Author Share Posted August 18, 2019 27 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said: was a warning shot. No, umbra literally grabbed us and jumped out of the way. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Shelneroth Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 1 hour ago, WoodedSkate89 said: we've seen lotus' face. She's white We've seen nora's face. She's black The Lotus clearly isn't locked to one apperance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodedSkate89 Posted August 18, 2019 Author Share Posted August 18, 2019 Just now, (PS4)Shelneroth said: The Lotus clearly isn't locked to one apperance. She is? She was turned into a ropatolyst by space daddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)guzmantt1977 Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 12 minutes ago, (XB1)SixGunLove said: Absolutely not a warning shot. Umbra saved you. Watch it again 7 minutes ago, WoodedSkate89 said: No, umbra literally grabbed us and jumped out of the way. A single salvo. No sustained fire, no change of posture, no hard fought battle, no pincer manoeuvre, no attempt to create a cone of death. Just hovering there while she's phoning home and telling "mom" that she's on her way. Then an empty sky, and a single, vulnerable, live, Tenno. If roles were reversed, and you had a small army capable of high levels of destruction, with her standing there, and you ordered her death, but she dodged, would you have them stand down, or seal her fate with a dismissive wave of your hand? Think about it. 20 minutes ago, (XB1)SixGunLove said: To a answer your question. Basically Yes. Think about what you agreed with some more. 2 minutes ago, WoodedSkate89 said: She is? She was turned into a ropatolyst by space daddy No. She took on a face and mannerisms so well that Alad didn't have any clue that he wasn't dealing with the real thing. The ropalolyst is a weapon used to force Alad to stick to the plan even though he knows now what he was dealing with. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Shelneroth Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 1 minute ago, WoodedSkate89 said: She is? She was turned into a ropatolyst by space daddy I don't know about that. We know she took the form of Margulis. We later see her in a new Sentient appearance with Margulis face. There seems little reason to think she isn' able to change her appearance again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lokidus_Prime Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 (edited) 18 hours ago, WoodedSkate89 said: No, umbra literally grabbed us and jumped out of the way. It looks like the other sentients behind her fired the shots tho, not Natah. Also, in the intro we see that her shot has purple energy when she destroys umbra, but in the ending cinematic there was no purple shot. Edited August 18, 2019 by Sin1989 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loza03 Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 Lady has more 'brainwashed' red flags than a beach with riptides into waters infested with sharks that practice semaphore. One: Hunhow says that the Sentients will try to reclaim her. He also implies that he would want to stop them (albeit be unable to), which indicates that it's not exactly a quick chat over a cup of tea. Lotus then reports that she was 'saved' by her family. Two: Ballas, an Orokin in a high rank - possibly one of the Emperors - and specifically so in the Tenno project, alongside being implicated in the scheme Natah was supposed to deliver, has no idea that she was brainwashed by the Orokin. Nobody told him despite him being on a 'need to know' basis. He reports that Natah tricked him - but if Natah was brainwashed into the state that he thought she was like Margulis, this doesn't make any sense, because he would almost certainly be aware of the Brainwashing. Three: The Orokin apparently brainwashed Natah but, whilst digging around in her memories, personality and motivations and changing them, chose not to take out the part of her personality that wanted them dead. Why wouldn't the Orokin do that? Why would they willingly decide to let the Lotus kill them off? Four: the Orokin CAN'T reprogram the Sentients with enough detail to get Lotus to 'love the Tenno' - that's why they have the vulnerability to the void to begin with. If they could brainwash the Sentients, then like the Dax, they could guarantee total loyalty. Since they couldn't, the creator intentionally built in a vulnerability to void energy. This is seen in the Detron Crewman synthesis imprint. It's one of their seven principles to never have anything without a fail-safe. Lotus would have (from their perspective), been the Tenno's fail-safe. If the fail-safe didn't have a fail-safe, they wouldn't use her. Five: the New War reveal has 'Mother' claiming that we were the ones brainwashing and using her - that doesn't add up with the later story. It also uses very similar metaphors to one of Teshin's speeches which initially sowed the 'Lotus is evil' seeds. "They seduced you, used you... took away your fire." "The Lotus seduced the Tenno, led them on a complacent path like oxen." Spoiler (For the latter, it's 48 seconds in) Six: If the Lotus was always evil, why didn't she complete the sequence and kill the Tenno? That was literally her one job. She wasn't 'leaving them to weaken future resistance', her job was to kill them because they had already destroyed the greatest source of resistance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilChair Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 "there-is-no-reason-to-keep-space-mum-alive/" she's been dead ever since apostasy prologue. no helmet on natah means no lotus means dead lotus. the helmet seems to have margulis' personality inserted into it via transference, so i have reason to think that a cephalon margulis (the real space mom) is coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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