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WoodedSkate89

[Spoilers] There is no reason to keep space mum alive (SPOLIERS)

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1 hour ago, WoodedSkate89 said:

In the ropatolyst fight she says that she was also trapped inside Lua's belly

Nothing Lotus says in that fight especially, but even before that point (at least when relating to the Sentients), is to be trusted or taken at face value. 

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lol, I think it's about time that the Tenno stand on their feet and decide their own future. They have been used from the get go and that includes Natah/Lotus. Time to step up and destroy all the manipulators....

oh...she/it was never our mother, nor was Margulis

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6 hours ago, Loza03 said:

But were they dealt with in this discussion, which may start from the same area but end up in different destinations?

I came up with those ideas independently. I'm repeating just one of them from my previous comment because that particular one is relevant to the precise conversation I was having.

That didn't refer to you, I apologise for any confusion. Your post had a good explanation for how the ropalolyst monologue is a vastly different thing when viewed through the lens of Mother's interaction. Your posts on this thread are some of the only things that make sense based on the lore. 

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1 hour ago, MacKerris said:

nor was Margulis

literally the only person in the orokin state who stood up for the zariman kids and even gave up her life to exonerate them?

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4 minutes ago, evilChair said:

literally the only person in the orokin state who stood up for the zariman kids and even gave up her life to exonerate them?

A friend to or savior of, is not the same as mother. As far as we know the Tenno's parents died in the void. Even that story is a bit suspicious.

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2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Find that in the lore. It isn't there. This should tell you something. 

You're quoting lines from the ropalolyst fight. Those lines come after the teaser trailer for the new war. Watch that trailer, and then reread the lines. She's repeating what she has been told by Mother. 

That context is important. 

Yes, because gone is the humanoid shape that we've seen in the very recent past. Or did you miss the enormous sentient harness that she's apparently now a part of. 

What have they done to you? 

Nothing. This... This is what I am. 

Literally nobody is described as a purely good or purely evil person. Except maybe, Clem he's pretty good. 

Ballas has literally demonstrated that he doesn't even know who she is part of the time. She tried correcting him, but he wasn't having any of it. We know that he's aware that Margulis is dead and Natah is not her from the vitruvian. But he still can't keep it straight. 

You even quoted him saying that he thought that she was his lover. And now he knows that she isn't. Yeah that's a sign that he's not right in the head. He's contradicting himself and blaming her for not being who he wants her to be. Jilted lovers tend to do that sort of thing. Look at what he's spouting, poison in the heart, love must die, that's heartbreak talking. He's basically reciting one of those country music songs. 

And yes Natah is who she is. But who she is, decided to take care of us, protected us, defied Father and kept us safe, and finally was brought before Mother who convinced her that she was forced to do this, despite all evidence to the contrary. Now she repeats those lines while acting against us, but she's not telling us this in a dialogue, it's a monologue. She's repeating it, possibly because she has to, to convince herself of it. 

 

Okay where did you get in the lore that era was telling lotus to say those things?

I watched the teaser and it seems to me lotus wasn't in the changed state for long, so some of that good old mommy lotus still resided in there, era just needed to kick it out of her. Now with that gone I have looked at the perspective you wanted me to. Yeh she shows cracks , but they are gone now. In the ropo fight she was talking about her families history and the struggles they went through and how she thought she loved the tenno and was re made. While maybe saying re programmed was poor choice of words there's no denying she changed and not willingly.

Ballas clearly states we made up this lotus in our minds, through chains of harrow quest the red veil leader clearly saw right through the lotus, teshin saw right through her .

This leads me to belive that the lotus helmet just allowed her to change her form,  any non tenno would see right through this and see her as her true self, natah.  She IS a mimic after all.

Now with you constantly trying to red con the idea of her not changing or being changed, it is literally told to us that IS what happened, in direct freaking quotes I mean I am banging my head on the table as this point.

She is trying to invade us , kill us twice now a third upcoming, tell me please why you are clinging on to lotus so much? I would really like to know.

Based off what others have said about you in the forums and your history in this community, you seem like a troll. I shouldn't be wasting time trying to entertain you 

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1 hour ago, (PS4)Kamil-the-KamiKa said:

Okay where did you get in the lore that era was telling lotus to say those things?

I watched the teaser and it seems to me lotus wasn't in the changed state for long, so some of that good old mommy lotus still resided in there, era just needed to kick it out of her.

Notice that the Lotus is repeating what she has been told. Notice that the radical change in behaviour comes only after the interaction with Mother. Notice that the interaction that happened while the helmet was safely in the orbiter. This is literally the lore. 

This means that your narrative is not making a lick of sense. What you witnessed has all of the hallmarks of a brainwashing. There is not a shred of evidence for any of what you suggest the helmet does. There is not a shred of evidence to suggest that she was previously under any form of external control while Hunhow was inactive. The existing evidence suggests that there was no control over the millenia by either the Orokin, or the traitor Ballas.

There is possible evidence of a level of control exerted by Ballas only immediately prior to her departure with him, which notably comes only after Hunhow made contact. The fact that she disagreed with him initially in that encounter, suggests that at that time, there was no control. 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Kamil-the-KamiKa said:

Yeh she shows cracks , but they are gone now. In the ropo fight she was talking about her families history and the struggles they went through and how she thought she loved the tenno and was re made. While maybe saying re programmed was poor choice of words there's no denying she changed and not willingly.

Again, that was the basis of what Mother was telling her, during a time when she was noticeably confused. The comparison to a defector being captured by the people that they were fleeing from, appearing and singing the praises of the ones who recaptured and interrogated them, is apt. Especially when they are repeating a narrative that flies in the face of the preexisting evidence to the contrary. You need to spend some time considering how that plays out. 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Kamil-the-KamiKa said:

Ballas clearly states we made up this lotus in our minds, through chains of harrow quest the red veil leader clearly saw right through the lotus, teshin saw right through her .

Teshin Dax, the person who knowingly followed the orders of a known enemy? The person who was loyal to Orokin, and was a member of the group that lore shows resented the Tenno? The person who, in seeking a purpose has decided to continue to follow the last orders and act to ensure that the Sentients are unable to gain control of the system? The person who bears a grudge for the failure of the Dax to be able to defend their masters? That Teshin Dax? 

As for Palladino all she says is:

Great Sentient Queen, forgive me, but what you are, what you've made of yourself... is merely drawn from the dreams of these divine children. You are not she, you are not... Margulis.

That doesn't tell us anything that we didn't already know. But if you read carefully you will see that the Lotus has "made herself" into 'the mother of our dreams'. Not "tried to pretend to be", not "been forced to become". That exchange suggests nothing sinister about what she did with regard to us. 

Ballas, as we are aware is a (more than?) half maddened soul who killed his former lover, and thought that he had a replacement. He refused to take no for an answer and then he found out to his pain that he didn't. And like jilted lovers and country singers everywhere, throughout all ages, has decided to curse her name for "doing him wrong". What probably made it worse is that she still saved his life, and there is some dialogue to suggest that he resents her saving him. 

So of the 3, one is a jilted lover whose affection has turned to bile. Another is a former enemy, still loyal to the old masters despite knowing them to be despicable. The third knows what she is, and yet, gladly accepts the Lotus in her position of surrogate mother to the Tenno from whom she sought help. 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Kamil-the-KamiKa said:

Now with you constantly trying to red con the idea of her not changing or being changed, it is literally told to us that IS what happened, in direct freaking quotes I mean I am banging my head on the table as this point.

She is trying to invade us , kill us twice now a third upcoming, tell me please why you are clinging on to lotus so much? I would really like to know.

Again the ropalolyst quotes exist in the lore after the interaction with Mother and are such a radical departure in behaviour that the simplest explanation is that they are the only ones who have brainwashed her. That's not retconning, it's paying attention to the lore. I don't know why you're not seeing what @Loza03 and I have both noticed. At this point I suspect that you just don't want to. Let me quote them for clarity:

3 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Nothing Lotus says in that fight especially, but even before that point (at least when relating to the Sentients), is to be trusted or taken at face value. 

The new war teaser trailer, and the ropalolyst monologue taken together create a context that what is being said is the narrative fed to her by Mother. It goes against all preexisting lore, and requires assumptions that are not supported by the lore. 

She's also not really tried to kill us. Again, she was surrounded by a phalanx of weapons of mass destruction, which fired a single salvo and didn't continue or attempt to pursue us. She didn't apparently order the salvo, the energy pattern does not match with her own, the style of the sentients does not match her design visually. She quietly left, taking them all with her. That is not my idea of "trying to kill" someone. If you will recall, we were the ones who approached and attempted to destroy the ropalolyst, not the other way around. And for the future invasion, something about unhatched eggs would probably be an appropriate response. 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Kamil-the-KamiKa said:

Based off what others have said about you in the forums and your history in this community, you seem like a troll. I shouldn't be wasting time trying to entertain you 

Whenever some people can't refute the points being made, attacking the person who has made them is an attractive proposition. 

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On 2019-08-17 at 4:17 PM, WoodedSkate89 said:

At the same time, the fallout will be insane.

Space granddad and grandma will come for us.

Maybe that will the the trigger of the huge war.

The quest starts with a boss battle. We kill lotus. WAR

This is better than anything else I have seen, personally. 

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On 2019-08-17 at 7:10 PM, WoodedSkate89 said:

Seeing how all she has done is lie to us since she met us... There is no reason to even want to keep her alive.

I feel like there will be a scene where once the natah bossfight is doneand we will have a chance to kill her or let her go. (Btw it really won't be a challenge). 

  Hide contents

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What will you guys do if there is that option?

There is a reason to keep her alive.  It gives loyalists reasons to go to war with worthless traitors like you who ever dared to allow her to care for you when you would have long since died.  Semantics be damned.  She is family.

Let the civil war begin.

Do it, DE.  

Do it.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

There is a reason to keep her alive.  It gives loyalists reasons to go to war with worthless traitors like you who ever dared to allow her to care for you when you would have long since died.  Semantics be damned.  She is family.

Let the civil war begin.

Do it, DE.  

Do it.

 

 

I understand why they probably can't...

but that doesn't mean I wouldn't want it if they can.

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2 hours ago, MacKerris said:

As far as we know the Tenno's parents died in the void.

Take it from someone who knows from experience: The one who squeezed you out from between her legs ain't always your mother.

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21 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

There is a reason to keep her alive.  It gives loyalists reasons to go to war with worthless traitors like you who ever dared to allow her to care for you when you would have long since died.  Semantics be damned.  She is family.

Let the civil war begin.

Do it, DE.  

Do it.

A civil war between the Tenno... That might be an interesting path for this to take. 

We're too strong for any faction we have access to to take on. We were used to fight the Sentient and we took down the Orokin. 

The only thing that can cut a diamond is a diamond. 

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32 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

She is family

I don't know what your family is like, but no one in my family ever tried to murder me. So, you know... she tried to kill me... she ain't family.

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4 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

I don't know what your family is like, but no one in my family ever tried to murder me. So, you know... she tried to kill me... she ain't family.

Lol for real! 

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23 minutes ago, (XB1)SixGunLove said:

Ugh ooh Shuuuut uuuup guz. /s you know what blue ment. Lol

Yeah, but I also know the story that I was told about the Kohinoor (or possibly the Orlov?) and know that it takes a lot more or less than a diamond to "cut" a diamond. 

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19 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Yeah, but I also know the story that I was told about the Kohinoor (or possibly the Orlov?) and know that it takes a lot more or less than a diamond to "cut" a diamond. 

The sentiment remains the same lol

Just think it would be an interesting move on the Sentients' part to use Lotus/Natah to start a civil war among the Tenno. 

Maybe they know some of us will want to save her, maybe they know some of us will want to kill her. 

Two very opposing viewpoints, with a life at the stakes.

Unravel the makeshift family of Tenno and have us take ourselves out. 

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Any one else find the need to kill Lotus a bit on  the creepy side or is that just me. Also BIG money on the helmet being a red haring

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2 minutes ago, Rider_Megalon said:

Any one else find the need to kill Lotus a bit on  the creepy side or is that just me. Also BIG money on the helmet being a red haring

Not really. She lied and manipulated the tenno. So obviously we want revenge

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On 2019-08-17 at 8:06 PM, (XB1)SixGunLove said:

LSS950I.gif

Because the thought that the hive-minded Sentient Collective might be influencing her is preposterous, right?

Oh wait, that’s EXACTLY what the Orokin *apparently* did.

And EXACTLY what her free-willed-thinking father (a suspiciously absent Hunhow) warned her would happen...

”They will say you are Riven and come to reclaim you. I will not be able to stop them.”

But because of your need for bloodshed, the Orokin influence is instant justification and the other possibility doesn’t even enter your mind...and we aren’t even talking about how Wally has artfully manipulated our walk down the path to war and bloodshed.

 

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1 hour ago, Gabbynaru said:

I don't know what your family is like, but no one in my family ever tried to murder me. So, you know... she tried to kill me... she ain't family.

None of my family have ever been brainwashed by psychic space robots. Or, er, ARE psychic space robots, to my knowledge.

And, I mean, we're fine with Umbra after he tried to kill us. And Ordis after he dream-sequence tried to kill us. And Simaris after he tried to kill us. And Maroo after she tried to kill us (in self-defence). And Teshin after he tried to kill us. And plenty of people want to side with the Sentients, Grineer or Corpus despite them spending 99% of their time trying to kill us.

 

But no, purple mama tries to kill us possibly under the influence of mental bathing? Nah, she gotta die. 

 

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