Help! No dmg?!

[Fayt_Kyrael]

I just cannot figure out why I'm getting such really bad low dmg with my Sybaris. I have googled, but I feel like I must be missing something HUGE cause I just can't seem to get it to do much.  Yellow hits doing about the same damage as my S. Simulor's just aura hits much less explosions. 

I am using Dex Sybaris  with   Sybaris Acri-Visican Riven ((82% Multishot, 127% Crit dmg, 155.5% Damage, +75% Recoil))  Then Serration, point Strike, Hunter Munitions, Vital Sense, Heavy Caliber, Critical Delay, and Split Chamber for other mods. Got forma'd out and all mods maxed cept Heavy Caliber at this point.   

I am sorry for taking up your time, but I just cannot figure out why I'm shooting for such piddlywink damage. 

[Phatose]

Do you have a dragon key equipped?  That's the usual explanation for a problem like this.

[Fayt_Kyrael]

I do not have a dragon key equipped and have actually never gotten one before. 

[Pie_mastyr]

since serration, heavy caliber and +damage stat on riven all stack additively you get diminishing returns.(in your case HC only adds about 40% more damage whereas a 90% element in its place would add its full 90%) in your case you would be better served by adding elemental damage instead of HC and preferably viral or at least cold (since you are using hunters munitions)

[actuallyVile]

Any build without any elemental mods concerns me greatly...

[(PSN)Oberionne]

I agree with Pie_mastyr. HC not only lowers your overall dmg, its neg of -accuracy will have you missing more than some are comfortable with.  Just adding 60/60 corrosive will help more than HC. Vital Sense seems like crit overkill as well.

I tossed this together on Warframe Builder with your riven stats.

Edited August 18, 2019 by (PS4)Oberionne

[Fayt_Kyrael]

3 minutes ago, Pie_mastyr said:

since serration, heavy caliber and +damage stat on riven all stack additively you get diminishing returns.(in your case HC only adds about 40% more damage whereas a 90% element in its place would add its full 90%) in your case you would be better served by adding elemental damage instead of HC and preferably viral or at least cold (since you are using hunters munitions)

I will switch it out then. I have Primed Cryo Rounds I can swap in instead and see how that works. ^ ^ 

1 minute ago, -AxHx-Vile said:

Any build without any elemental mods concerns me greatly...

I'm sorry. I never really built a real build setup for a weapon. Before now I just used S. Simulor with elemental mods on Mirage as my general go to while I kept trying out new frames and weapons hoping to find ya know that one that is super fun and I enjoy. I really like Khora and DUAL CATS >:D! So worked on a Sybaris Dex for the crit for the pets x 2 and figured Crit and raw dmg on it would be the thing. 

[MrInubis]

Also unless you do long endurance runs you should drop hunter munitions, procs from it are not relevant for most players. You dont need slash proc if you kill dude with 1 or 2 shots. That way you can go with radiation or corrosive.

Edited August 18, 2019 by kuciol

[Fayt_Kyrael]

1 minute ago, kuciol said:

Also unless you do long endurance runs you should drop hunter munitions, procs from it are not relevant for most players. You dont need slash proc if you kill dude with 1 or 2 shots.

Well it for the hunter set and Khora pet along with a Kavat companion as well using the Hunters set of stuff. The slash dmg debuff buffs the pets dmg and targeting. 

[MrInubis]

Just now, Fayt_Kyrael said:

Well it for the hunter set and Khora pet along with a Kavat companion as well using the Hunters set of stuff. The slash dmg debuff buffs the pets dmg and targeting. 

Not really needed. The dude you shoot at should be dead and not targeted by your pet. The best status is "dead".

[Lutesque]

Heavy Caliber doesn't go well with The Sybaris.... as for why you're not doing damage....

Well now that you have a riven.... you can look into using Bane Mods...

[actuallyVile]

10 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

Heavy Caliber doesn't go well with The Sybaris.... as for why you're not doing damage....

Well now that you have a riven.... you can look into using Bane Mods...

"You're not doing damage so look into using Bane mods"

...mother of god. No wonder you struggle so much.

[rapt0rman]

15 minutes ago, -AxHx-Vile said:

"You're not doing damage so look into using Bane mods"

...mother of god. No wonder you struggle so much.

He's referring to the diminishing returns of too many base damage mods, as stated earlier in the thread. Bane mods don't stack additively with base damage, and are instead multiplicative of your entire modded weapon's stats, they also double dip on DoT procs.

[actuallyVile]

1 minute ago, rapt0rman said:

He's referring to the diminishing returns of too many base damage mods, as stated earlier in the thread. Bane mods don't stack additively with base damage, and are instead multiplicative of your entire modded weapon's stats, they also double dip on DoT procs.

I know what they do, but the lack of a bane mod is not the reason for not dealing damage here.

[rapt0rman]

7 minutes ago, -AxHx-Vile said:

I know what they do, but the lack of a bane mod is not the reason for not dealing damage here.

TBH, if he's going for a non-viral-assisted slash proc build then a primed bane mod will do wonders for him.

Alternatively he could just use elements 😛

Edited August 18, 2019 by rapt0rman

[MPonder]

59 minutes ago, Fayt_Kyrael said:

I just cannot figure out why I'm getting such really bad low dmg with my Sybaris. I have googled, but I feel like I must be missing something HUGE cause I just can't seem to get it to do much.  Yellow hits doing about the same damage as my S. Simulor's just aura hits much less explosions. 

I am using Dex Sybaris  with   Sybaris Acri-Visican Riven ((82% Multishot, 127% Crit dmg, 155.5% Damage, +75% Recoil))  Then Serration, point Strike, Hunter Munitions, Vital Sense, Heavy Caliber, Critical Delay, and Split Chamber for other mods. Got forma'd out and all mods maxed cept Heavy Caliber at this point.   

I am sorry for taking up your time, but I just cannot figure out why I'm shooting for such piddlywink damage. 

Elements? Try removing Heavy and Critical for a element combo.

[Fayt_Kyrael]

Lots of chatting for me I'm gonna try the elements for sure and see how that changes. First I'm dropping HC for Primed Cryo rounds and see how that feels. After that I will fiddle with other things. I like the critical delay for the crit buff to pets which is the reason i'm using Sybaris at all honestly.  If it doesn't work I'll just give up on Khora completely and move back to my Mirage Simulor as that seems has 3 combo elements and does good dmg while I don't aim XD

[Pie_mastyr]

I didn't even realize you were using critical delay, you really shouldn't use that before elements, if at all. Not only is it hurting your build options and overall damage, it hardly has any impact on the crit buff from hunter synergy. With critical delay and point strike dex sybaris  has 104.3% CC with hunter synergy your kavat gets +31.29% crit. Without critical delay you have 87.5% crit chance which passes along 26.25% to your pet. So all that for an extra 5% on your pet? definitely not worth. Go for elements

[Fayt_Kyrael]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone the change to adding Elements was absurdly apparent right off the bat. Swapping Heavy Calibur for Primed Cryo alone seemed to pump my dmg from low 1k ish dmg on basic yellow crits to high 4k - 6k  on the same targets   Also Dropped Critical Delay for Malignant Force.  

Edited August 18, 2019 by Fayt_Kyrael

[Uhkretor]

You do need to consider vulnerability/resistance of your enemies. If they are more vulnerable to Cold damage, it may explain the damage bump on top of the bonus damage it does. If they have resistance to the highest physical damage of the weapon, no elemental mods considered, it may also explain why you were doing such a low damage with it.

Edited August 18, 2019 by Uhkretor

[-CdG-Zilchy]

25 minutes ago, Fayt_Kyrael said:

Thanks for the suggestions everyone the change to adding Elements was absurdly apparent right off the bat. Swapping Heavy Calibur for Primed Cryo alone seemed to pump my dmg from low 1k ish dmg on basic yellow crits to high 4k - 6k  on the same targets   Also Dropped Critical Delay for Malignant Force.  

What? Why would you add a status elemental when you've built for crit damage?

[taiiat]

to expand on what's been mentioned a bit - replacing Heavy Caliber and Critical Delay with two Elemental Mods (any, really, but preferably pick Elemental Damage Types that the Enemies you're shooting at are weak to, or provide Status Effects that are useful to you) will dramatically increase overall Damage.

whether you opt for more Raw Damage via using full Elementals or a Hybrid mix of Status Elementals, is up to you. since you're already going pretty much all in on Raw Damage w/ Crits and you're using Hunter Munitions, perhaps full Elementals. but it'll depend on what Elemental Damage Type you go for (as Viral for example would still be useful to increase Status for, so as to apply Viral alongside your Slash Status, even despite the low Status of Dex Sybaris it would still provide some benefit).

 

(Edit: oh. you basically already did this. that's what i get for reading ~75% of the Thread rather than 100% i guess.)

2 hours ago, rapt0rman said:

He's referring to the diminishing returns of too many base damage mods

is he really? we can never be sure of what he's referring to, in any discussion.

Edited August 18, 2019 by taiiat

[Pie_mastyr]

3 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

What? Why would you add a status elemental when you've built for crit damage?

because just like base damage, elemental damage has diminishing returns after +100%(and op is using 165% primed cryo rounds) And the synergy of consistant viral procs with the slash proc from HM is quite usful, not to mention halving enemies hp makes you kill faster anyway. using A 90% element in the same slot as the 60% would result in a ~9% increase in damage, with a severe hit to status. Now understandably building off dex sybaris' 10% status sounds pretty underwhelming, especially since with only 1 60% mod you get to 16% before multishot, but gameplay wise it is so much more useful, mostly because at 10% you run the risk of having your viral proc run out which really can suck.

Since the way warframe calculates damage is by adding multipliers together( (base damage)x(Multishot)x(elemental damage)x(Crit)x(Faction mods)), it is almost always advisable to diversify and not overload on one damage category. I personally consider status chance in this calculation though not really numerically, but since most of the procs either provide damage or additional damage amplification. It would be a mistake to not consider status a damage stat simply because it is often hard to numerically show just how much more damage you do with them.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

1 minute ago, Pie_mastyr said:

because just like base damage, elemental damage has diminishing returns after +100%(and op is using 165% primed cryo rounds) And the synergy of consistant viral procs with the slash proc from HM is quite usful, not to mention halving enemies hp makes you kill faster anyway. using A 90% element in the same slot as the 60% would result in a ~9% increase in damage, with a severe hit to status. Now understandably building off dex sybaris' 10% status sounds pretty underwhelming, especially since with only 1 60% mod you get to 16% before multishot, but gameplay wise it is so much more useful, mostly because at 10% you run the risk of having your viral proc run out which really can suck.

Since the way warframe calculates damage is by adding multipliers together( (base damage)x(Multishot)x(elemental damage)x(Crit)x(Faction mods)), it is almost always advisable to diversify and not overload on one damage category. I personally consider status chance in this calculation though not really numerically, but since most of the procs either provide damage or additional damage amplification. It would be a mistake to not consider status a damage stat simply because it is often hard to numerically show just how much more damage you do with them.

Or you could use a 90% elemental and not worry about their status cos they're already dead. The kind of levels OP will be playing, HM is a waste.

Edited August 18, 2019 by Zilchy

[Pie_mastyr]

Just now, Zilchy said:

Or you could use a 90% elemental and not worry about their status cos they're already dead.

except the difference is hardly noticible, that 9% damage you get from using a 90%  will kill enemies like... 5 levels higher? That's not even necessarily true since with the status mod you have a higher likelihood of halving their health with a viral proc on the first shot of the burst thereby improving the level range that you can "oneshot" with essentially the same setup. Except the status mod will make the weapon scale better past the point where you can't oneshot anymore.

Gotta diversify my dude

[-CdG-Zilchy]

6 minutes ago, Pie_mastyr said:

except the difference is hardly noticible, that 9% damage you get from using a 90%  will kill enemies like... 5 levels higher? That's not even necessarily true since with the status mod you have a higher likelihood of halving their health with a viral proc on the first shot of the burst thereby improving the level range that you can "oneshot" with essentially the same setup. Except the status mod will make the weapon scale better past the point where you can't oneshot anymore.

Gotta diversify my dude

Wanna talk scaling? He's going for a viral combo on a crit dmg build presumably for solo play. At that point you're better off simply using corrosive and since he's not, he'll gain more from simply stacking the raw damage type with the weakness bonus and if you're not prioritizing damage types to factions then at that point you're not really trying to optimize anyway. If he wants to halve their health he should change the build entirely.

Edit: from his comments it's pretty clear he is not playing missions where 1 shotting isn't possible. Otherwise I would agree with you, though in that case I would simply remove the crit mods. 

Edited August 18, 2019 by Zilchy