Can we please bring back the dye BP?

[PrismaCat]

Anyone who is higher level mastery doesn't even need it anymore since they got 20k+ daily standing, and a pet that can act as a dye (if they want to not use kavat

but newer players are ABSOLUTELY screwed by this mechanic, i don't have access to the pet since at mr3 i have 3000 standing a day and a 24h timegate on each mastery means it'll probably take 1-2 months to get. and since itll be ages before i can even fish up any fish that give more than 50 rep each, the end result is that i basically LOSE standing each time i try to fish. this is absolutely absurd.

10 luminos dye for a scant few resources is stupidly cheap per 5 minutes of crafting. I see absolutely NO reason to not keep BOTH options available. i basically have to just never fish untill i have the rep since paying a large portion of my daily limit in rep every time i try to fish is absolutely stupid. there was no reason to change this in this manner, the new player experience is absolutely horrible as it is...

 

if you're gonna commit to this can it at least be 100 standing per 10 or 5? not per ONE? jesus..

Edited August 18, 2019 by PrismaCat

[Test-995]

You don't have to fish anymore, although it's not really an excuse or reason for not having both bp and bait/dye itself.

[PrismaCat]

edit: im dumb

Edited August 18, 2019 by PrismaCat

[Test-995]

13 minutes ago, PrismaCat said:

???? you physically cannot get the dye BP anymore, what are you saying lol

I'm talking about game not you.

Edited August 18, 2019 by Test-995

[PrismaCat]

Ahh, yeah - i suppose that's true, but as a newer player looking to try to get ostron up and build a zaw, it seems like fishing wont be a thing i even consider, which is a shame since it's really cool lol

[Klokwerkaos]

is the dye bp not a thing?

hmmm... suggest until a fix is in place go fishing with a clan mate.

[sinnae]

The existence of easily farmable thumpers kinda destroyed the whole rep grind economy in Cetus (and same with Exploiter for Fortuna).

I missed out on getting bps for the rarer fish baits so I'd be down if DE brought them back, but 1. nobody is forcing you to fish and 2. nobody is forcing you to use dye. You can get tons and tons of rep without fishing, and you can get fish without dye.

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

If you have the old blueprint you can make as many as you want and it costs nothing, i kinda regret not having unlocked all the blueprints before this went through... that blue glow die really makes fishing easier, especially in fortuna. 

I'm sorry you didn't get the blueprint.... I feel like reusable blueprints should be an ultra rare drop on bounties or else rewards for "special events" like plague star. 

Side note, i find it ironic that the infested are body horror creatures on the level of "The Thing" and yet you never hear them properly depicted as something that people across the system live in constant terror of. Grineer and Corpus, even hating us, would totally send out distress calls begging for our help which granted sorta does happen on the invasions thing but... story wise it could be handled so much better... The rescue missions are objectively unpleasant to play... I imagine having rescue invasions that start with a grineer or corpus speaking to us instead of Lotus in a slightly derisive but none the less desperate manor, we have to come in and defend an area where they have locked them selves up, ie defense mission, then you have to defend their armored vehicle as it rolls through an area thick with infested and you have to keep them off the vehicle, then finally an exterminate mission once you've rescued the survivors to get rid of all the remaining infested or deplete their numbers to a manageable level, get this message at the end like "My superiors told me your kind are all murders, mindless killers...I called you out of desperation, we had no choice....... But you know, Tenno... You're alright.... I, uh... can't let anyone find out about this, but I'll make sure you're rewarded for what you've done for us... " it would do a lot to humanize both our own character by letting them actually play the part of hero and humanize our enemy as well...

[PrismaCat]

5 hours ago, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx said:

If you have the old blueprint you can make as many as you want and it costs nothing, i kinda regret not having unlocked all the blueprints before this went through... that blue glow die really makes fishing easier, especially in fortuna. 

I'm sorry you didn't get the blueprint.... I feel like reusable blueprints should be an ultra rare drop on bounties or else rewards for "special events" like plague star. 

Side note, i find it ironic that the infested are body horror creatures on the level of "The Thing" and yet you never hear them properly depicted as something that people across the system live in constant terror of. Grineer and Corpus, even hating us, would totally send out distress calls begging for our help which granted sorta does happen on the invasions thing but... story wise it could be handled so much better... The rescue missions are objectively unpleasant to play... I imagine having rescue invasions that start with a grineer or corpus speaking to us instead of Lotus in a slightly derisive but none the less desperate manor, we have to come in and defend an area where they have locked them selves up, ie defense mission, then you have to defend their armored vehicle as it rolls through an area thick with infested and you have to keep them off the vehicle, then finally an exterminate mission once you've rescued the survivors to get rid of all the remaining infested or deplete their numbers to a manageable level, get this message at the end like "My superiors told me your kind are all murders, mindless killers...I called you out of desperation, we had no choice....... But you know, Tenno... You're alright.... I, uh... can't let anyone find out about this, but I'll make sure you're rewarded for what you've done for us... " it would do a lot to humanize both our own character by letting them actually play the part of hero and humanize our enemy as well...

 

Not a bad idea, but honestly i cant stomach spending 1000 standing per 10 dye when i can only get 2000 standing a day.

 

it's bad enough that having to wait 24h between each mastery test means it'll be over 2 weeks before i can even do anything, no matter how much time or effort i put into the game

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

26 minutes ago, PrismaCat said:

 

Not a bad idea, but honestly i cant stomach spending 1000 standing per 10 dye when i can only get 2000 standing a day.

 

it's bad enough that having to wait 24h between each mastery test means it'll be over 2 weeks before i can even do anything, no matter how much time or effort i put into the game

Yeah.... sigh i remember a time when i could reach the next mr in just 10 hours... i have so much trash i have to build and grind off before i can just hit 21... right now im mostly putting my focus on uh.....err.... fo...cus.... which you probably aren't there yet so uh, yeah take your time.. you got a loooong way to go.

[PrismaCat]

im pretty sure i could do nothing on the game but log on and do my MR test for the next week, my star chart is almost complete (mastery locked) and every single weapon from 0-3 MR is now maxed, this is silly.

 

i have actually run out of content to do (progressing, i mean), nearly every junction requires a 12h craft, and at this low MR i cant do any content so i just have to log on, do a few things, log off and wait for the next day. this game feels like destiny, it actively DOESNT want me to play

 

4k standing limits now on everything, i dont get the logic to the MR timegate lol

Edited August 19, 2019 by PrismaCat

[(PSN)NewcastleDisease]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb PrismaCat:

Anyone who is higher level mastery doesn't even need it anymore since they got 20k+ daily standing, and a pet that can act as a dye (if they want to not use kavat

but newer players are ABSOLUTELY screwed by this mechanic, i don't have access to the pet since at mr3 i have 3000 standing a day and a 24h timegate on each mastery means it'll probably take 1-2 months to get. and since itll be ages before i can even fish up any fish that give more than 50 rep each, the end result is that i basically LOSE standing each time i try to fish. this is absolutely absurd.

10 luminos dye for a scant few resources is stupidly cheap per 5 minutes of crafting. I see absolutely NO reason to not keep BOTH options available. i basically have to just never fish untill i have the rep since paying a large portion of my daily limit in rep every time i try to fish is absolutely stupid. there was no reason to change this in this manner, the new player experience is absolutely horrible as it is...

 

if you're gonna commit to this can it at least be 100 standing per 10 or 5? not per ONE? jesus..

don't really get why you would need them...

[(PSN)NewcastleDisease]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb PrismaCat:

Ahh, yeah - i suppose that's true, but as a newer player looking to try to get ostron up and build a zaw, it seems like fishing wont be a thing i even consider, which is a shame since it's really cool lol

if you want ostron standing fast go hunting.. in the plains you are even do not need to search for entry points... animals spawn at all places in the plains... you get 300 to 1800 standing point for each animal...

once you are outside the gate, equip the hunting rifle and look arround.. first animals are in 75% in front of you right behind the tiny waterspot

Edited August 19, 2019 by (PS4)NewcastleDisease

[Klokwerkaos]

i'm thinking this should still be obtainable in some way, even if it's a super rare drop from a high end thing like HYDRO or something... this way players at least have a chance at it.  i can't imagine how bad this must suck for people without it.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

4 hours ago, Klokwerkaos said:

i'm thinking this should still be obtainable in some way, even if it's a super rare drop from a high end thing like HYDRO or something... this way players at least have a chance at it.  i can't imagine how bad this must suck for people without it.

I agree. I try to help the newbs I play with by taking them fishing or by taking on the thumpers for them to collect the scraps they need.

I have most of the blueprints, so I can manufacture and toss out most bait by the hundreds if I feel like it. I also learned how to fish, where to aim, and which spears to use to get successful catches. The OP is correct about older players not really needing the dye because we have the Oxylus or whatever it is because I have that too, but it doesn't help anyone but me. 

Newbs having to spend significant amounts rep, just to begin to learn how to fish, isn't a great system. I accept that older heads can easily make many times the amount of rep that is being spent, because we're good at fishing, but that's not true for the newbs. The amount of bait and dye they will waste just to get the hang of it, is just going to hurt them. 

[Klokwerkaos]

32 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

I agree. I try to help the newbs I play with by taking them fishing or by taking on the thumpers for them to collect the scraps they need.

I have most of the blueprints, so I can manufacture and toss out most bait by the hundreds if I feel like it. I also learned how to fish, where to aim, and which spears to use to get successful catches. The OP is correct about older players not really needing the dye because we have the Oxylus or whatever it is because I have that too, but it doesn't help anyone but me. 

Newbs having to spend significant amounts rep, just to begin to learn how to fish, isn't a great system. I accept that older heads can easily make many times the amount of rep that is being spent, because we're good at fishing, but that's not true for the newbs. The amount of bait and dye they will waste just to get the hang of it, is just going to hurt them. 

to a point i think it's great with people helping lower level and newer players, but taking away the ability for them to reasonably obtain success in this fashion if they don't have a friend that can help out seems overly harsh and not very newer player friendly.

that said, i do think that it's good that there are some brakes implemented designed to slow mid game progression a little, since in theory you can whiz through the game in a month or two if you know what you're doing, but at the same time, making it potentially obtainable, even if it's really hard to get, would be something i think that would be fair ish.  even if it's a 1% on doma, that's something.

 

Edited August 19, 2019 by Klokwerkaos

[sinnae]

9 hours ago, PrismaCat said:

 

Not a bad idea, but honestly i cant stomach spending 1000 standing per 10 dye when i can only get 2000 standing a day.

 

it's bad enough that having to wait 24h between each mastery test means it'll be over 2 weeks before i can even do anything, no matter how much time or effort i put into the game

You can fish without dye...you know that, right? Adjust your lighting settings and aim for the big old name tag floating over their heads.

[sinnae]

Dye is a "luxury" so to speak, not a necessity, spending half your daily turn-in on dye and then complaining about your rep being gone is like going out for steak every night and then complaining food is too expensive.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 hour ago, Klokwerkaos said:

to a point i think it's great with people helping lower level and newer players, but taking away the ability for them to reasonably obtain success in this fashion if they don't have a friend that can help out seems overly harsh and not very newer player friendly.

that said, i do think that it's good that there are some brakes implemented designed to slow mid game progression a little, since in theory you can whiz through the game in a month or two if you know what you're doing, but at the same time, making it potentially obtainable, even if it's really hard to get, would be something i think that would be fair ish.  even if it's a 1% on doma, that's something.

 

I agree with that. I don't have a problem with it costing a fair bit of effort, maybe the thumpers are a decent idea for hiding the blueprints behind RNG and a level of difficulty for the different levels of bait. 

 

48 minutes ago, sinnae said:

You can fish without dye...you know that, right? Adjust your lighting settings and aim for the big old name tag floating over their heads

You can fish with the wrong spear too, some might call it a luxury. You can do without, if that's what floats your boat. Doesn't have anything to do with the fact that using the right tools do make a significant difference in your ability to get the fish you want. 

[sinnae]

Spears are a one-time purchase so I'm not sure what the relevance is. Continuously blowing your entire income on dye instead of learning how see the fish or find fishing spots with better lighting conditions seems...unoptimal.

[Klokwerkaos]

1 hour ago, sinnae said:

Spears are a one-time purchase so I'm not sure what the relevance is. Continuously blowing your entire income on dye instead of learning how see the fish or find fishing spots with better lighting conditions seems...unoptimal.

i think you have missed the whole point of acquiring stuff in warframe.  the whole goal is to use the right tools for the job to minimize effort because there is so much grind.

i mean you can also use an unmodded excal the whole game too... so like... yeah.  if you wanna do that, go for it man.  there's nothing wrong with it.  sometimes i run sorties with random loadouts with no forma and auto install mods just for S&G's, but the thing is, i have the luxury to decide to do that, which is far better than being stuck doing that.

Additionally, not everyone likes to do what you like to do.  your method of fun is valid as far as you are concerned, but the prevailing narrative of the audience is they want to use the best tools to minimize the effort overall.  Not everyone wants that and ascribes to that, but it is the very vocal majority.  Additionally, many people hate having to fish at all, me being one of them, and what you're describing to me sounds like slow torture.  not because it's hard, but because i just wanna do it and be done with it when i have to.

Edited August 19, 2019 by Klokwerkaos

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 hour ago, sinnae said:

Spears are a one-time purchase so I'm not sure what the relevance is. Continuously blowing your entire income on dye instead of learning how see the fish or find fishing spots with better lighting conditions seems...unoptimal.

So were the blueprints. That's why many of us can toss out dozens of dyes pharomas, and scores of baits if we want to.

By comparison, repeatedly spending standing on the bait is definitely...suboptimal. 

[sinnae]

9 hours ago, Klokwerkaos said:

i think you have missed the whole point of acquiring stuff in warframe.  the whole goal is to use the right tools for the job to minimize effort because there is so much grind.

i mean you can also use an unmodded excal the whole game too... so like... yeah.  if you wanna do that, go for it man.  there's nothing wrong with it.  sometimes i run sorties with random loadouts with no forma and auto install mods just for S&G's, but the thing is, i have the luxury to decide to do that, which is far better than being stuck doing that.

Additionally, not everyone likes to do what you like to do.  your method of fun is valid as far as you are concerned, but the prevailing narrative of the audience is they want to use the best tools to minimize the effort overall.  Not everyone wants that and ascribes to that, but it is the very vocal majority.  Additionally, many people hate having to fish at all, me being one of them, and what you're describing to me sounds like slow torture.  not because it's hard, but because i just wanna do it and be done with it when i have to.

I'm not saying "don't ever use dye." I'm saying if you're consistently going broke and spending your entire daily rep income on dye, maybe you should skimp a little until you reach higher MR, and practice fishing without it in the meantime. There's a time and place for being optimal, and part of the low MR/new player experience is having to be thoughtful and make significant decisions on what to spend your precious resources/reputation/materials on. You won't be rolling in forma, potatoes, endo or rep, so you skimp and actually learn game mechanics until much later when you have a surplus of everything.

[sinnae]

9 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

So were the blueprints. That's why many of us can toss out dozens of dyes pharomas, and scores of baits if we want to.

By comparison, repeatedly spending standing on the bait is definitely...suboptimal. 

Of course, which is why maybe OP...shouldn't.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

31 minutes ago, sinnae said:

Of course, which is why maybe OP...shouldn't.

Congratulations, you seem to have figured out why they decided to make this thread in feedback. They also believe that they shouldn't. The basic idea was outlined in the very first post. 

Welcome to the discussion.