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September 23Rd: Community Hot Topics!


[DE]Megan
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Communication

 

As the game progresses further and PS4 launch approaches, there are areas of communication that need more visibility (dev tracker, as an example).  Most players want to know that their suggestion has affected the game in some way and is being heard. Many discussions have been had in the dev offices regarding a player made suggestion, so know that you’re feedback is being heard. Keeping players in the loop has become a large topic in the community in regards to a ‘step by step’ process in which the devs communicate what they’re up to. Putting together some level of “Dev Task” area has been brought up before when we first introduced community hot topics, and we regret that it has continued to sit on the backburner.

 

Stamina

 

Or “Ninja Nerf” as some would call it. This has been rightfully controversial. For some the stamina and parkour aspects of each Warframe were what gave it the “ninja” feel.  With the stamina nerf, we took that away from players in a sense. Our intent was to make Stamina mods more useful, as players categorized them as useless. Since then we have reduced the delay on stamina recharge and increased stamina recharge rate. With continued feedback we can tweak when necessary and keep the ‘Ninja’ in Warframe.

 

Drop Rates (Forma, Mods, Mutagen, etc)

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/110474-an-apology/?hl=desheldon

 

Sheldon- “Forma was not intentionally made hard to find, adding loot to the Void caused issues. Mutagen, however, is something in the Derelicts to encourage players to return, play, and explore”

 

MUTAGEN UPDATE

 

Based on the changes that were made to the Derelict key times (excluding the boss fight) from 1 hour to 1 minute, what feedback do you have in regards to obtaining Mutagen in this new system?

 

Balancing of the Warframes

 

This comes up a lot because it is the core of the player experience. We’ve talked about it in other Hot Topics and even the most recent Livestream. Maybe it wasn’t talked about enough; maybe not the right answers were given? Either or this topic still continues to dominate the forums in terms of indifferent opinions.  The bigger picture; stop making new content and focus on old broken stuff. Don’t fix what’s not broken.  It’s not that the Warframes are broken, they just become in need of review as other content is added to the game.

 

In Game Content

 

The request for more content/ difficulty was met with adding a new boss, new items to clan research, new tile set, new prime etc. The reaction however; was not met with very many smiles. We want you to have fun exploring planets and doing missions with your friends to gain these items and stop rushing to find the “endgame”. As devs, we need to look at how long is too long to search for an item without making them too easy to find.

 

Moving Forward

 

Our job is to ensure our Updates are what Players want and what the game needs – updates will always be a balancing act of new content and revisions. Update 10 was full of new content, but came with its fair share of bugs. . Old bugs need to be squashed before new ones happen. Many players feel our next Update should focus on revision and polish instead of new content/weapons.We will continue hotfixing and updating regularly, the emphasis on fixing the structure cannot be ignored and is being relayed.

 

New Players

 

A rising concern in the community is the game’s difficulty for new players.  With players in the 500+ hours played bracket telling us it’s to tedious/difficult to make valuable items because of the time it takes to acquire resources, it raises a flag. Some specific concerns are the credit pricing being too high to fuse mods together. Will new and current players find the game too difficult and leave Warframe? That’s something we need to avoid entirely and has to be looked at.

 

 

Steve expressed his thoughts on some of these issues:

 

“We respect our community and value them the utmost. We're dead without you and we know it. That is why every day we oscillate between reading feedback and acting on it. Hour by hour, threads like these are on everyone's monitor and discussions ignite.

I agree we need to do more for Design Council - don't forget they have designed Warframes and see new developments and work in private. There is more we should do, but it has been difficult from our perspective because consensus is rare there. I need to communicate in there more, for sure, and I have no good excuse except for travel and frantic work days.

The weapon changes for the worse are almost always temporary. Things slip through and it is terrible. I know the weapon you're describing is bugged and I see fixes going in for it. No one is trying to ruin your gear that you earned. It is embarrassing for us and I feel like hell to see the anguish.

Robbery prices on crafting components seem inflammatory as you get these things by playing as well. We did screw up bad on a lot of those, because we took resource averages from elder players and we've corrected a lot of that. There are more coming. The weird void? If you mean Derelicts, this is where the Infested wiped the Orokin, so the samples make sense there but I think there is room to add more ways to get them. We're trying to distribute resources throughout the locations as we add them, nothing sinister is at work.

Stamina should be in much better shape, and I know the guys feel terrible about it. That is why they stayed all night to fix them, slept 4 hours, and then came back to push out the hotfix. We could have asked about it, definitely, the idea wasn't to remove fun though; it was to make the stamina system mean something. We don't hold those changes dear and will improve or destroy where needed.

I am sorry if Conclaves upset you but they are not a broken priority promise. U10 exposes dueling outside the Dojos and barely more. Meanwhile a new Warframe, the most massive Boss we've ever done, with themed weapons for research and an amazing new art set were added.

Prices are always in flux and we're trying our best to find the sweet spot there. Sometimes things are expensive because everything else around it comes for free. We make all game-affecting purchases optional.

We suffered some dilution again but we take RNG problems very seriously. We have done two major overhauls to it in the last few months. Alerts now drop everything within a reasonable time cycle. Loot tables are per-enemy instead of global. We need to expose this information better but believe me, we have worked on the RNG.

U10 had bugs and ridiculous errors but it far from a joke. It’s the result of a passionate group of flawed humans, trying to create challenge and excitement for our players. Every change can ignite a spark of outrage but still we must make those changes. Yes we pushed it out early, I agree. We thought GTA week would mean we'd get lost in the noise so we crunched to get it out Friday.

I understand the position we should stop adding stuff and just crush bugs for a few months but it is a balancing act. When we spoke to industry people about F2P games that lived and died they made it very clear to us that Updates meant life and lack of updates was the number 1 killer. We are working to fix the problems and hope we can win you back despite our missteps.”

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I was waiting for this.

I understand everything and an apology is not needed for me.

 

"Based on the changes that were made to the Derelict key times (excluding the boss fight) from 1 hour to 1 minute, what feedback do you have in regards to obtaining Mutagen in this new system?"

 

I'm fine with it as long as the keys would cost a little more less or the mutagens would drop more than before. 2-3 each run ain't happy.


Also, is the 50 plat distributed yet?

Edited by KasaneTeto
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I'd like to know if there will be a Mastery Rank Test "Practice Mode" for players that made it beyond Master Rank 8 before U10.

Will players like me who reached Rank 12 before U10 be able to try out the new tests? (For us it was the same Rank 8 test all the way through to 12.)

Edited by sushidubya
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Mutagen should drop from all infested, how else should it work, seriously?

 

If you want to give us a reason to go back to the derelict, why not neural sensors? Unlike other rare resources those things drop only on one planet (Jupiter, which also happens  to be one of the smallest) and the possibility to look for those in a second tileset would make neural sensor gathering a lot less tedious.

 

Also, what ever happened to the grapple you were developing? I don't want to get something incomplete but it has been months since you showed it to us and frankly I would expect something with so much potential and novelty to have priority over another batch of weapons.

Edited by CubedOobleck
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Stamina

 

Or “Ninja Nerf” as some would call it. This has been rightfully controversial. For some the stamina and parkour aspects of each Warframe were what gave it the “ninja” feel.  With the stamina nerf, we took that away from players in a sense. Our intent was to make Stamina mods more useful, as players categorized them as useless. Since then we have reduced the delay on stamina recharge and increased stamina recharge rate. With continued feedback we can tweak when necessary and keep the ‘Ninja’ in Warframe.

Actually correct me if I'm wrong fellow Tenno, but "Ninja Nerf" actually refers to "Ninja Like Silent Nerfs" of anything in this game. i.e.) If the Supra were to have its damage suddenly cut in half or if credits for missions were suddenly reduced without any mention in the patch notes and thus catching us off guard. (I used theoretical examples here of course.)

Edited by sushidubya
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Thanks! Great feedback from steve. I know you all work hard and greaty appreciate it!

I agree that updates are life keep moving forward and i trust you'll not forget the problems too.

I think keys times have been shortened too much. It made them special. We dont need to be able to make OD Keys faster than we can use them. As far as mutagen goes i think its drop is fine. One OD defense to wave 20/25 gives enough mutagen for 24/36 hours of crafting.(20-30 mutagen samples)

Maybe to encourage less rushing you could add "hidden/treasure rooms" to some normal maps. That might require more exploration?

Thanks again! Keep at it!

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Mutagen needs to still drop from old spots, but simply drop in much greater quantities in the Derelict maps.

 

Say Eris/Jupiter/Infested planet drops Mutagen at a rate of X. This value may be what we had prior, or lower. Make the Derelicts drop 3X, or something similar. That way, one can still get Mutagen from normal maps, but the Derelict is the obviously most effective area to harvest it.

Edited by SilentCynic
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The mutagen rates are too damn high, basically.

After 2-3 hours of running with a group through Derelicts, we came out with a nifty 30 mutagen samples each.

only 19,880 to go to finish all the U10 research stuff...

 

Updates meant life and lack of updates was the number 1 killer.”

You can't kill something that was never alive, and you can't extend the life of something that hasn't been born yet.

Most F2P games that died through lack of updates were completed when people played them, and updates were the only thing they needed to do. I know that it things aren't as linear and simplistic as people make them out to be on forums, you can't just grab a weapon artist and tell him to remake the mod system instead of making a Tenno Reinforcement, but there's a good reason this "anti-update-propaganda" exists:

The more you add on now, the harder it will be to make a 180 turn the second you realized your mistakes.

I would gladly sit still for half a year while this game is just being rethought and revamped, and I think that that could potentially make it into something amazing, but I know that it isn't an option. All I can do is hope that all of the piled on content won't stop you from flipping some tables when it becomes a necessity.

Edited by Feam
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MUTAGEN UPDATE

 

Based on the changes that were made to the Derelict key times (excluding the boss fight) from 1 hour to 1 minute, what feedback do you have in regards to obtaining Mutagen in this new system?

With keys being much less onerous to produce, I feel that mutagen in general is in a reasonably good place right now. However, there is a problem:

Defense missions are the go-to farming place for mutagen. Once you've got all the nekros pieces and thus don't need golem coordinates any more, there's no real reason to go on exterminate/capture/survival missions in derelict zones. Because in defense, the enemies will generally come to you, letting you farm for mutagen much more easily and efficiently.

One solution is to buff mutagen drop rates in non-defense missions.

 

Balancing of the Warframes

  maybe not the right answers were given?

I think, honestly, that there are no right answers to be had. The players talking about Nova are different than the ones who want Ember rebuffed or who complain about Nekros' desecrate. The community itself isn't some monolithic bloc who all want one thing.

 

In Game Content

 

The request for more content/ difficulty was met with adding a new boss, new items to clan research, new tile set, new prime etc. The reaction however; was not met with very many smiles. We want you to have fun exploring planets and doing missions with your friends to gain these items and stop rushing to find the “endgame”. As devs, we need to look at how long is too long to search for an item without making them too easy to find.

 

A lot of time, people aren't necessarily looking for new guns or frames (we have plenty), but rather new enemies who provide unique and novel tactical requirements. Arid Fear/Phobos, for instance, tended to provide this in the form of hellions and eviscerators. However, the derelict tileset doesn't, save for Euphantis/Golem.

I've also seen (and echo'd) a request for lore a lot in this forum. Basically, the Warframe universe is really mysterious and interesting, but one of the problems is that there's no context to our actions ingame. Lotus tells us to go send the grineer a message and murder a couple of platoons of them, but the players don't get the feeling that it's important or that it matters, leading us to focus in on the gameplay.

 

New Players

 

A rising concern in the community is the game’s difficulty for new players.  With players in the 500+ hours played bracket telling us it’s to tedious/difficult to make valuable items because of the time it takes to acquire resources, it raises a flag. Some specific concerns are the credit pricing being too high to fuse mods together. Will new and current players find the game too difficult and leave Warframe? That’s something we need to avoid entirely and has to be looked at.

I can't say I've seen that specific concern brought up on the forums. Rather, the problem I've heard comes from the difficulty in acquiring vital mods like serration*, redirection, and so on.

*This has gotten better with the introduction of survival on Mercury sometimes dropping it, but it's still not good.

Edited by Cpl_Facehugger
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Balancing of the Warframes

 

This comes up a lot because it is the core of the player experience. We’ve talked about it in other Hot Topics and even the most recent Livestream. Maybe it wasn’t talked about enough; maybe not the right answers were given? Either or this topic still continues to dominate the forums in terms of indifferent opinions.  The bigger picture; stop making new content and focus on old broken stuff. Don’t fix what’s not broken.  It’s not that the Warframes are broken, they just become in need of review as other content is added to the game.

 

EMBERRRRR.

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I know F2P needs constant updates, and we like the new content, but please, assign some staff or hire some new staff to at the same time crush bugs/polish up old content, the bugs and issues with the previous content including the UI, HUD, Clan management/Contacts, Matchmaking etc are in the way of us enjoying the new content.

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I think the "Keeping Players Interested" with the new area isn't really what a lot of people are thinking. If you want them to go there and keep going there, making it the only place to drop Research Material isn't really the best way. Makes the game feel more grinding than it needs to be even with the change of the pace of building the keys. A more suitable reward from them would be a chance of getting mods that would normally be found in the void, but with a lower chance since it looks similar to the void but in ruins.

Another idea is to have it have a increased drop rate of Mutagen compared to the other two locations that had it before instead of removing the other two spots and making it the only source. That way people have a choice instead of having to feel like they have to grind to get the keys made, then grind the new area until they have enough Mutagen.

 

Most of us know you're trying your best with this... but try to think of people that have a hard time grinding as it is with time limitations [due to jobs/schools] and interest in current zones [missions they have unlocked and want to stay in that planet]. Not everyone has the time or want to immediately go straight to a new area whenever they want, some people want to either take time in the game with what they have and move towards it slowly or don't have time to get everything they need for it.

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In Game Content

 

The request for more content/ difficulty was met with adding a new boss, new items to clan research, new tile set, new prime etc. The reaction however; was not met with very many smiles. We want you to have fun exploring planets and doing missions with your friends to gain these items and stop rushing to find the “endgame”. As devs, we need to look at how long is too long to search for an item without making them too easy to find.

Jesus H. Christ.

It is not about "item to find", it is not about "exploring the planets", it is not about items AT ALL.

You wanna keep grind in this game? fine. crafting is fun.

 

But you don't have a missions for high level play, you don't have long-term gameplay. no you don't.

 

Endless Defenses were at some point this long-term gameplay. But since you killed difficulty in the game EDs are boring.

You have killed Survival mode. EDs based survival was at least fun. Current Survival is search and slay game and again it's boring and frustrating.

 

Understand this - when we talk about new content we do no ask for new items. NO. We are asking for interesting game modes. Like alert with level 100 mobs but for group, not solo. Mode with many objectives, mode with teamplay, mode with coordination and planning. We are asking for COOP.

 

We are not asking for items to grind. It is not a content for "coop tps".

 

Again, Lore for those who cares about it.

 

NO MORE GRIND PLEASE. Grind must not be a content, it must be addition to content. Like to run mission "A" without complication i need to have weapon "B", in order to get weapon "B" i need to find/buy it's bp build it and level it. ok. fine. i'll do that, but i need a polygon where i can use this weapon.

I need it in the game because i don't have it. And bunch of new weapons to grind is not the same than have a fun mode to play, that captivates you instead of making you facepalm or yawn.

 

I need mission type for high level players. For me. For US. We are playing your game as well DE.

Edited by Althix
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I think the most important thing to continue improving on is communicating changes with the community. Not so much what you're changing, but WHY you're changing it. Having a reason and being able to present it openly, especially when its being met with negative responses, is a pretty huge deal to me. Even if I don't agree with someones reasoning, I can usually see what they're going for and respect it. The more you tell us about how the change will affect the game positively and why you made it, the better.

That's the main reason why I love these Community Hot Topics. It more or less tells us more about what's happening behind the curtain.

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But you don't have a missions for high level play,

T3 def? Pluto Alerts? I don't understand what you're talking about here, Broseph.

But since you killed difficulty in the game

I'm sorry, what? Are we talking about the same high level planets where a single one second burst from a grineer flamethrower can eat through 1k shields? Since U10 enemies in high levels have gotten a tremendous damage buff.

It might be cheap and/or fake difficulty, but it's sure as hek difficulty.

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I think a lot of the issues were glassed over with a positive sheen there, but the message is more or less on point.

 

I think a lot of us just want more transparency in fixes, perhaps not in new content, but also when a concern is raised by the community, it shouldn't be brushed aside without looking into it (such as the Forma drop rates).

 

Also this:

 

I agree we need to do more for Design Council - don't forget they have designed Warframes and see new developments and work in private. There is more we should do, but it has been difficult from our perspective because consensus is rare there. I need to communicate in there more, for sure, and I have no good excuse except for travel and frantic work days.

 

Please bear in mind that 'they have designed Warframes' is really more like, 'they made a bunch of suggestions, then we had them vote on the five we liked most, not what the DC wanted the most.'

 

More choice over visual aesthetics, lore or something more substantial to the meta of Warframe would be more valuable than having a group fight over something so hard, the end product leaves a bad taste in peoples mouths, even today. The login Diorama competition? That was fantastic! people will get to see their creations in game and it leaves a real sense of actual contribution to the way things are done.

 

More of that please!

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MUTAGEN UPDATE

 

Based on the changes that were made to the Derelict key times (excluding the boss fight) from 1 hour to 1 minute, what feedback do you have in regards to obtaining Mutagen in this new system?

 

I understand that you guys want to make Mutagen Samples more rare, since only 10 are needed for a single Mass, and your way of moving them to the Derilect makes sense. But the thing is, to make most Bio lab weapons, you need 5 masses, which equals 50 samples. If you average 5 dropped samples per Derliect run, that equals 20 runs. That's a LOT of farming, which I don't think is what you guys want. A couple of good ideas would be to increase the drop rate of Mutagen samples in the Derilect, or to guarantee X number of samples at the end of the mission, similar to the way you made Nekros parts drop. Keep up the good work, hope to see more fixes for these issues soon.

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Prices are always in flux and we're trying our best to find the sweet spot there. Sometimes things are expensive because everything else around it comes for free. We make all game-affecting purchases optional. (from steve)

 

What does steve mean by this? That, for example, weapons are obtainable for free? What expensive things is he talking about? Frames? Weapons? Those are the only things I can think of that are "free" to obtain and are in the market, but are also overpriced (besides resources, but he isn't talking about those).

 

It would be better for your market if they were cheaper, not ~$0.01 type cheap, but affordable, as in, I'm not paying $15 per weapon/frame. Just because other thing can be gotten for free is no reason to have other things be super expensive (especially as those things can be obtained for free too. It's weird, you're market has good things, then lots of bad things, the cosmetics are all pretty well priced, some of the best I've EVER seen, but your other items (weapons, frames) are almost all horribly priced!)

 

We suffered some dilution again but we take RNG problems very seriously. We have done two major overhauls to it in the last few months. Alerts now drop everything within a reasonable time cycle. Loot tables are per-enemy instead of global. We need to expose this information better but believe me, we have worked on the RNG.

One of the biggest problems with RNG isn't that you can't find mats, but the fact when you run a boss for a new warframe, unless you get the bit you're looking for, you're no closer, and there is no noticeable progression. You can run a boss a billion times, but until he drops that ONE BP you're missing, you're still at only 2 of the 3 (or 4 if it's from the void) BPs you need.

 

My solution to this (until you figure out a better solution to this) is either: Make all parts have the same drop rate, that way whatever bit people are trying to get will drop more often (statistically) OR do something where every 10 runs awards a BP. You could either start at the master BP, then helmet, chassis, and last systems. This way people can farm, but they can go "Hey, I'm 2 runs away from my next BP being awarded to me!" instead of thinking "Dammit, drop already! I've been doing this for so long!"

 

(you can obviously tweak the numbers, and important note: this wouldn't just be for bosses (it would be for non-void missions though), this would be for anything where you gotta collect X bits, i.e. miter, seer.)

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Please bear in mind that 'they have designed Warframes' is really more like, 'they made a bunch of suggestions, then we had them vote on the five we liked most, not what the DC wanted the most.'

Ehhhhhhh, I'm not with you on this one. DE can't be expected to have a poll with the hundreds of assorted choices proposed for a given power/theme/whatever. They've gotta prune it down somehow, and "I like this better/can see how to implement this ingame" is a reasonable metric for that.

The council aren't game designers for the most part. Giving us too much control will result in terrible content getting pushed.

 

More choice over visual aesthetics, lore or something more substantial to the meta of Warframe would be more valuable than having a group fight over something so hard, the end product leaves a bad taste in peoples mouths, even today. The login Diorama competition? That was fantastic! people will get to see their creations in game and it leaves a real sense of actual contribution to the way things are done.

 

More of that please!

Well, I would love to have more control over Warframe lore...

...Except for the fact that the rest of the council would also have that control, leading to lore by committee which is terrible. Nah, on second thought, I don't think we need the council to help direct lore except maybe in the broadest strokes possible.

I solo it. every one can solo it.

and if i can solo, i don't need to have a group for it.

I submit to you that if you can solo it easily (can you do so without your acrid crutch?), you are not the kind of player who the game should be balanced around. If your statements are true rather than hot air, you're clearly in the upper 1% of the playerbase and thus balancing 'high level content' around players of your skill level will leave the other 99% of players struggling to complete it.

Edited by Cpl_Facehugger
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