September 23Rd: Community Hot Topics!

[Fuzz_]

You guys need to make a flag for the forums to flag whether a topic/thread has been read and acknowledged by someone from DE.

 

You'll realise how much more it'll mean to everyone with such a system. 

[ErudiusNacht]

Before I begin my rant, I would like to point out that I do support this game. I tank newbies, I report bug tickets, I buy plat. Please understand that everything I'm gonna say, I say because I care about this game. I'm invested in it.

 

Okay, let's begin.

 

1. It's U10. For a game in Open Beta, that's already a year now for Warframe right? We are already at the age that computing technology is developing so fast, a laptop you just bought might be obsolete in just 2 months. My point here is, time is ticking, fast.I think the best thing to do is the iron out the kinks all around before doing an update. The contact list, NAT, matchmaking still hasn't been resolved. This is an MMORPG, as in MULTIPLAYER. One of the selling points and the developer promoted gameplay is team play. Playing with random dudes all day doesn't really build that much camaraderie. I'm surprised that some clans even manage to stay together.

 

It's getting long winded, you add and add more stuff without cleaning out the still existing problems. Again, time is ticking. I really didn't want to mention other products in the industry but to get my point across, I have to. GTA V has just been released. Lost some people there. The Witcher 3 is coming, and it's open world open choices open build, we will lose some people there. Dark Souls 2 is coming, enough said. MGS V Phantom Pain is coming and is going to feature an online open world multiplayer. For those too young to know MGS, MGS is a 3rd person tactical stealth shooter series. Real stealth. As in detection can and will kill/fail you. Personally, as a Kojima fan since the 80's, you might lose ME there. You have to sort your priorities now, since the world will not wait.

 

My advice: Get a decent story writer / team. Create a novel like lore, wrap the game around it. Finish the game completely wiping out bugs and don't add much yet. Release it, THEN ADD UPDATES. Sell the game, sell the story, sell the franchise. Profit. Add content when product matures, then profit again. In business terminology, YOU are maturing the product while it's still in the beta stage. This will lead to an early senescence.

 

 

2. (yes, it's just number 2) Design council

Create a hierarchy within the design council. since they can't decide by themselves. If they're a cause for delay, get someone in charge. Yes, they're customers. More so, they're paying customers. But the phrase "the customer is always right" is now completely obsolete. In management, what we use now is "the customer is not always right, but might be uninformed". Organize their ****. I think it's about time you consider that the output of the design council might not be representative of what the community wants/needs.

 

3. Social networking?

I honestly prayed that you would not resort to this. I sincerely hope you do not add a like/share button in the UI. We do not need, emoticons, we do not need pictures of that Grineer Scorpion duckface, we do not need that farting golem selfie, we do not status updates of Captain Vor obsessing over her Queens. We need to connect with friends, in the game, to start a mission, not to tag photos or have a groupie. This is an MMORPG, Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game, not Farmville.

 

4. Get some funding

Go ahead, we'll tolerate some company logos on the loading screens. Do a consumer product promotion event. Get 10 cases of Budweiser and get 100 plat or something. We'll enjoy the beer while playing, can't guarantee the performance though. Anything to get you moving gets us moving.

 

5. Release

When is it? I know you're working hard to reach that goal, but at least set some expectations. Set some ground rules. Will we have our stuff retained when you go into official release? Is the release going to restart clans? Will the release require some additional EULA? Something. Anything.

 

Actually, all of the stuff I mentioned here culminates toward releasing the game. We are playing, paying and actually, testing. Yes I enjoy the game, and yes I still find it engaging even if I'm 500hrs+ player. But we're not really players aren't we? We are paying you to let us test your product. I think we deserve the right to some real expectations about the official release.

 

And rant mode off, for now.

Edited September 26, 2013 by ErudiusNacht

[Azure_Kytia]

Trust me when I say that nothing in the Design Council is holding Digital Extremes back.

[ErudiusNacht]

Trust me when I say that nothing in the Design Council is holding Digital Extremes back.

 

Actually, that's bad. In business terms, if a process unit or division is not holding up the whole production, then it isn't needed. Every cell, every part of the process that is allocated time and resource should present a tolerable and manageable amount of delay. If it is not a cause of delay, then it does not participate in the process and is thus ineffective and / or unneeded.

[Azure_Kytia]

Pretty much. This shouldn't be news to you. 

 

Then again, perhaps you just don't know what it's there for. Despite it's name, the Design Council is more or less a "what's happening soon, kinda, we're not telling you about everything upcoming!!" subforum.

 

We've provided themes and ideas that culminated in Nova, but that was ultimately DE's creation in all but name and theme. We were asked what weapons most needed reworking (To which the answer was positively Ignis). We were asked what Tenno weapon we'd most like to see (Rifle/Soma), and we chose the name and ability of the Carrier after we saw how gourdlike it looked.

 

In short, it seems your view of what we actually do is skewed. We're not so much contributors as we are outsiders ever so closer to the windows of DE's ever-so-slightly-bitterer-with-every-announcement Chocolate Factory. We sometimes get to shout through the glass, but those opportunities are rare, far between, and most definitely not of our own choosing.

Edited September 26, 2013 by Azure_Kyte

[ErudiusNacht]

Pretty much. This shouldn't be news to you.

 

Then again, perhaps you just don't know what it's there for. Despite it's name, the Design Council is more or less a "what's happening soon, kinda, we're not telling you about everything upcoming!!" subforum.

 

We've provided themes and ideas that culminated in Nova, but that was ultimately DE's creation in all but name and theme. We were asked what weapons most needed reworking (To which the answer was positively Ignis). We were asked what Tenno weapon we'd most like to see (Rifle/Soma), and we chose the name and ability of the Carrier after we saw how gourdlike it looked.

 

In short, it seems your view of what we actually do is skewed. We're not so much contributors as we are outsiders ever so closer to the windows of DE's ever-so-slightly-bitterer-with-every-announcement Chocolate Factory. We sometimes get to shout through the glass, but those opportunities are rare, far between, and most definitely not of our own choosing.

 

 

I thought as much though. I tried PoE before and that is a team that really listens to players. They even showcase on youtube what builds players have made. And they're happy if it's a strong build instead of nerfing you down.

 

What you described is basically the reason why I buy plat on a regular basis but chose not to get a Founder account. The truth is, they post threads like this but you rarely see a reply from the devs or even the OP about the comments. I'm already 550+hrs of gameplay, but still, what I would like DE to focus on is not additional content, but smoothing out the game and completing it rather than adding and adding more problems to solve.

 

Yes it's true that Updates drive the popularity and continuity of a game, but that should be when it's released already. Beta testing should be focused on bug-testing and fixes and improvements before release. Not a  cycle of bug fixing, adding content then bug fixing again. It's basically a trial and error cycle / process and if it continues, they would've been beaten to the punch by the time they actually "release".

Edited September 26, 2013 by ErudiusNacht

[SAYO]

This is a very interesting post by Steve and thanks for talking to us on the forums.

I read countless threads about people saying DE should not add any new content for a month and that everyone is okay with it.

Guess what, I am not part of 'everyone'. Because I strongly believe these amazing updates coming weekly is what keeps

me playing this game. If there were no new content for 2-4 weeks, Warframe would honestly be a bit stale and I would

have no immediate goal to achieve; thus not logging on as much.

 

I agree the correct way is to keep pumping these new content out while they fix at the same time. It is true some issues

have been slow to correct. However, I am sure you notice critical bugs are fixed almost immediately. This means the things

that are not fixed yet are either causing internal debate among DE or it would affect the game so much they really

need some time to play with numbers.

 

Also, when so many complaint threads about betrayal and disappointment arise again, think about how Warframe is doing compared

to the industry standard. Is DE just another company that is money hungry and trying to trick all its players? What I see is

a company that is so unique in how it runs its game. I have never seen other games having such a close relationship with its

playerbase before and having hot topics, livestreams, etc. It seems to me certain players are abusing this kindness and

using it to get what they want immediately. For those with some logic and reason please look at the big picture of what DE is trying to accomplish

and how they are accomplishing it.

[Taranis49]

 

Drop Rates (Forma, Mods, Mutagen, etc)

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/110474-an-apology/?hl=desheldon

 

Sheldon- “Forma was not intentionally made hard to find, adding loot to the Void caused issues. Mutagen, however, is something in the Derelicts to encourage players to return, play, and explore”

 

MUTAGEN UPDATE

 

Based on the changes that were made to the Derelict key times (excluding the boss fight) from 1 hour to 1 minute, what feedback do you have in regards to obtaining Mutagen in this new system?

 

I can understand that, but simply putting mutagen there (and only there) doesn't really encourage us to go there so much as it forces us to go there, atleast until we no longer need samples - and that's not going to take all that long. It's like saying that denying a sweatshop worker their daily food ration "encourages" them to work harder, it might be technically true, but it's not exactly positive.

 

It also means that once again, the simplest and most effective way to get the stuff is defense or survival missions; neither of which actually leave a whole lot of room or oppurtunity for exploration. It's like Xini 2.0.

 

And to expand on that point, that's one of the problems with the Derelicts insofar as giving me an incentive to go back; they share a full three quarters of their resources with Pre-U10 Eris, including the near-useless Nano spores that drop all too frequently considering how little actually requires them: "I need to farm for spores" a phrase never uttered by anyone I know of in my 500+ hour time. They're like the Zimbabwe dollars of Warframe. Why DE decided this was the resource we should be able to recoup from the cost of key crafting is beyond me; compare the list of blueprints requiring Spores to the number that require Salvage, or Ferrite.

 

A way to start incentivizing me to go back is to have it offer resources that are always in demand and drop them more frequently than I could get them elsewhere, e.g. having it drop cells was a good call, the issue being they seem to drop just as rarely in Derelicts as they do outside them.

 

Finally, simply from a logic point of view, it's frankly silly that the non-derelict infested drop components for high-tech energy weapons - it's a slice of bologna on an apple pie, it doesn't belong there. I'd actually rather they not drop a research resource at all than having them drop Fieldron.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

It's getting long winded, you add and add more stuff without cleaning out the still existing problems.

There's a good reason for this. It's because dudes adding new content generally don't have the skills needed to fix bugs or do lore. Kary mentioned as much in the council earlier - you don't want an artist like him working on lore. He's great with art, not so great with writing. And the extent of his programming knowledge is knowing what != means.

What this basically means is that pushing out new stuff doesn't meaningfully slow down the bugfixing (which tends to involve multiple fixes per week, I'll remind everyone, with many of those fixes being unlisted like the carrier emblem placement bug). Nor does it slow down the lore writing.

 

The council stuff was adequately addressed by other masters. Suffice to say that we're holding exactly nothing up. Though statistically there's enough of us that our wishes do represent the playerbase.

[Kinjeto]

I hear exuses. please continue to work with competition

like friendly fire option for example

Potentially a game mode where it is highly riskier with friendly fire.

[NoPr0n]

There's a good reason for this. It's because dudes adding new content generally don't have the skills needed to fix bugs or do lore. Kary mentioned as much in the council earlier - you don't want an artist like him working on lore. He's great with art, not so great with writing. And the extent of his programming knowledge is knowing what != means.

What this basically means is that pushing out new stuff doesn't meaningfully slow down the bugfixing (which tends to involve multiple fixes per week, I'll remind everyone, with many of those fixes being unlisted like the carrier emblem placement bug). Nor does it slow down the lore writing.

 

The council stuff was adequately addressed by other masters. Suffice to say that we're holding exactly nothing up. Though statistically there's enough of us that our wishes do represent the playerbase.

 

Yes, but adding more weapon add some bugs too.

Artist should work only on skins. 

the game have only a few skins and they are less risky .

I would love to have my braton with a totaly new skin !

Edited September 27, 2013 by NoPr0n

[Vlatos]

Very interesting

 

[Da_Spadger]

About the new Grineer voices, the ones that the female grineer sounded a lot meaner, and personally I miss that. Are the current version of the grineer VO final or final-ish? Any chance at all of having the old female voice do the new lines? Am I even posting this in the right thread?

 

Seriously, all of the grineer we meet in the game are mean. They all need to sound mean too.

[Fijasrules]

This is why we need difficulty options. Why is this not in game yet....

@megan with regards to the derelict. You guys seem insistent on derelict being infested only and being the only place for mutagens.

Buff the mutagens in non-defence derelict.

Remove the need for keys apart from assassination.

Make the derelicts available in infested planets (like how formorians were).

Also make golem drop more mods and resources with a higher chance for rares. There is no point returning to golem once you have nekros. Yes he is fun but there is no point returning when this game is all about farming, the most efficient method will always be used.

This is part of a larger issue, that all game modes are not viable methods of farming. The best way is simply kiste/kappa/cyath. So I naturally have suggestions:

Buff all boss drops, more mods and mats, higher chance for rares.

In defence missions make it so that the longer you last, the better and more frequent the mod and mat drops. This goes for survival too.

Make capture and rescue missions a valued source of credits with a chance for rare mods as mission rewards.

This idea is great hope someone reads it's for its value everyone knows that farming is what this game is about to get new content the content is great but the farming isn't and should scale to be "easier" like more drops after long times in defense or shrivel or against higher level enemies (Ceres, Pluto, void, eris) this would give us a reason to go back to Pluto and Ceres and even eris besides te drops from the defenses

[TunaMayo]

This idea is great hope someone reads it's for its value everyone knows that farming is what this game is about to get new content the content is great but the farming isn't and should scale to be "easier" like more drops after long times in defense or shrivel or against higher level enemies (Ceres, Pluto, void, eris) this would give us a reason to go back to Pluto and Ceres and even eris besides te drops from the defenses

Cheers, I do feel that missions, despite being literally varied, lack a varied and valued reward that scales with effort each. Not sure if this is a widespread consensus or personal opinion.

It does feel a bit bland however that not every game mode rewards equally. Survival is a pretty good new income of mods and xp, but having drops starting to flop around the 15-20 minute mark is an issue that is shared with defence that actively discourages players from trying to advance further.

[Hammer_Of_The_Gods]

 

 

In Game Content

 

"... As devs, we need to look at how long is too long to search for an item without making them too easy to find.”

 

I agree. The devs for Warframe are awesome. But it is extremely hard to find the Frost Prime BP and Systems. I've been looking for these two items for a month and a half, and have had no luck. Maybe the drop rates in the Void just need a little fine tuning? Or maybe I am just looking in the wrong place. But all I've been getting are Frost Prime helmets and chasses.

Edited September 27, 2013 by Hammer_Of_The_Gods

[tels]

That's great. A mix of balance changes and new content sounds perfect. Since you've acknowledged that the resource requirements on some stuff are way too high, how about lowering the salvage costs of Synapse and Djinn?

 

...and while you're at it, get rid of stamina. You tried out a new direction with it; experimentation is definitely a good way to see what works and what doesn't. Stamina doesn't. Make the different frames perform the same moves at different speeds, and with different properties (i.e. its harder to knockdown/stagger a running/sliding rhino, but he gains momentum slower, gets up slower when he IS knocked down, has a lot more momentum (once built up) the player must manually compensate for when performing quick turns, etc). Make mods which modify those speeds and properties. Don't retain an arbitrary "you must stop having fun for half of a second to watch this green bar refill", pace-disrupting  mechanic purely out of precedent.

 

This game pretty much rules. The modular, procedurally generated content has a long-term advantage of exponentially multiplying the potential experience of each tileset. The economy of dev effort will consistently improve.

 

Oh. That's right. Please make new content challenging! I was all hype for the gigantic &#! new golem but my running team flattened him on the first try without have to adjust tactics or even really pay that much attention to any of his attacks or patterns. You have to make most content accessible to the lowest common denominator, sure, but give endendendgame folks something to put their game faces on for besides "regular idiot enemies, but with hideously high armor and attack values, after slogging through a million samey defense waves."

 

Thanks.

[BoompigXD]

I hear exuses. please continue to work with competition

like friendly fire option for example

[xXBaelFireXx]

I just came back from vacation to find the U10 live and I must say I'm sad I missed all of what happened after U9.3. However I really like the content and the things you guys are promising in newer content with U10. I really like the ODA mission the best with Lephantis. That boss fight was very interesting and I can't wait to see what other boss fights you guys are cooking up because that is a very fun mission. 

 

I also love the reworks on Mag and Trinity from a couple of updates ago. They're very nice and hope to see more of the other frames worked on a bit more as well. I'm not too sure on what some of the frames' problems are but I'm happy to know you guys are working hard day AND night on making sure the frames we have now are enjoyable. 

 

Keep up the great work! I know it's hard to juggle balancing and adding new content at the same time!

 

- MIght

[Taranis49]

In Game Content

 

The request for more content/ difficulty was met with adding a new boss, new items to clan research, new tile set, new prime etc. The reaction however; was not met with very many smiles. We want you to have fun exploring planets and doing missions with your friends to gain these items and stop rushing to find the “endgame”. As devs, we need to look at how long is too long to search for an item without making them too easy to find.

 

Not that I expect this to be read/responded to, but on this point...

 

First, and speaking solely for myself here, I rarely rush, but insofar as taking my time and exploring, there's not always an oppurtunity to do so depending on the mission type; extermination map types tend to be quite linear with very few detours, defense missions basically necessitate you don't move too far from the lazy guy in the fancy tanning bed, and survival maps tend to be small and linear (like extermination maps), plus it has a time constraint.

 

Beyond that, there's rarely an incentive to explore - this is something that was done right with the Void and its puzzles/time trials that can award things (e.g. mods) that wouldn't typically be awarded by simply playing the mission from Point A to Point B. However, let's look at where two-thirds of the new prime items drop: extermination and survival (the former of which isn't guaranteed to feature any real options to explore, and as noted the latter comes with a pretty big time constraint). And while I have found some of the hidden parkour rooms/similar time trials in the Derelict tileset, thus far they've yet to award anything I couldn't get by simply playing the mission - again, speaking for myself, but I'm not really seeing the carrot there.

 

Finally, by what metric are we measuring "easy"? To my mind, the reliance on RNG to provide the rewards means that a concept of "easy" or "challenging" doesn't enter into the equation - by definition it boils down to luck given the apparent weighting of the rewards (1 - 10% for a given reward at the end of a void mission, assuming the tables I've seen are correct). This means there's going to be people who'll get what they need in a scant handful of runs, while others might as well never get the slot machine to pay out and just end up quitting, particularly since they need to pass an RNG gate just to get a mission that'll drop what they want.

[c.BOLTSON]

This game is great and I love it, but yes it could always do with new stuff as well as fixing current bugs and a tad more polish. However I think this game is quite well polished to be honest. At least compared to what I am accustom to.

I love more difficulty! However have you considered a difficulty in a different fashion? One of the new maps I played had a lot of parkour type stuff. Add that parkour-ness to increased difficulty and more stuff like that and you have a recipe for awesome!

I just wanted to also say, spice things up with random mini bosses! Especially in defence missions which I absolutely love! Maybe every 5th mission before you get to chose to leave or continue to fight, there could be a mini boss, different usual AI`s but with fancy colours and increased moving speeds to go along with there obviously higher stats.

Edited September 30, 2013 by c.BOLTSON

[MASimon]

Almost 7 days past: Yet not a single response was made.

 

Why are only Rebecca and Megan reading the forum?

 

Seriousely I don't understand that mindset. My future is within gamedesign. Everyone of my colleagues LOVEs reading and frequently posting into forums. They strive for Interaction. They chat alsmost every day, speaking with different people, making funny comments and beeing Human.

 

DE is this abstract thing we are only able to see filtered through scripted video cast.

(One look on some faces: Most are annoyed to take part! That disgust on Steves face in the last cast, while looking at the chat, was not very well hidden) Why is that? Take a look at StarCitizen and their friendlyness.

Everyone of the team members has a dedicated topic for QA. They are involved. They are real.

 

It seems like the community is this filthy, rotten & contagious thing and the only interaction you can bear: Poking it with a clean scrubbed stick, every once in a while, to see if it is not deceased yet.

 

Maybe it is collective burnout? 2 Weeks Vacation could work wonders.

 

Edit: Haha, love how you decided to lock Livestream 15 and ignore everything which has come up so far!

I am a concept artist myself so I am looking forward to the concept team though! Nice to meet more people! :)

Edited September 30, 2013 by MASimon

[Eisen]

Almost 7 days past: Yet not a single response was made.

 

Why are only Rebecca and Megan reading the forum?

 

Seriousely I don't understand that mindset. My future is within gamedesign. Everyone of my colleagues LOVEs reading and frequently posting into forums. They strive for Interaction. They chat alsmost every day, speaking with different people, making funny comments and beeing Human.

 

DE is this abstract thing we are only able to see filtered through scripted video cast.

(One look on some faces: Most are annoyed to take part! That disgust on Steves face in the last cast, while looking at the chat, was not very well hidden) Why is that? Take a look at StarCitizen and their friendlyness.

Everyone of the team members has a dedicated topic for QA. They are involved. They are real.

 

It seems like the community is this filthy, rotten & contagious thing and the only interaction you can bear: Poking it with a clean scrubbed stick, every once in a while, to see if it is not deceased yet.

 

Maybe it is collective burnout? 2 Weeks Vacation could work wonders.

 

Edit: Haha, love how you decided to lock Livestream 15 and ignore everything which has come up so far!

I am a concept artist myself so I am looking forward to the concept team though! Nice to meet more people! :)

Because when the love period in a relationship is over and things become hostile, is better to stay away.

[NoPr0n]

Almost 7 days past: Yet not a single response was made.

 

Why are only Rebecca and Megan reading the forum?

 

Seriousely I don't understand that mindset. My future is within gamedesign. Everyone of my colleagues LOVEs reading and frequently posting into forums. They strive for Interaction. They chat alsmost every day, speaking with different people, making funny comments and beeing Human.

 

DE is this abstract thing we are only able to see filtered through scripted video cast.

(One look on some faces: Most are annoyed to take part! That disgust on Steves face in the last cast, while looking at the chat, was not very well hidden) Why is that? Take a look at StarCitizen and their friendlyness.

Everyone of the team members has a dedicated topic for QA. They are involved. They are real.

 

It seems like the community is this filthy, rotten & contagious thing and the only interaction you can bear: Poking it with a clean scrubbed stick, every once in a while, to see if it is not deceased yet.

 

Maybe it is collective burnout? 2 Weeks Vacation could work wonders.

 

Edit: Haha, love how you decided to lock Livestream 15 and ignore everything which has come up so far!

I am a concept artist myself so I am looking forward to the concept team though! Nice to meet more people! :)

 

This post make me feel sad :(

[FlanShark]

maybe they're busy. :O