Should DE take time to fix existing flaws instead of new content?

[Nameless_Nate]

For the past few days, me and a few other long-time players of the game were discussing Warframe and some of it's downsides, such as the Deluxe skins not reflecting much quailty in design as of late. The topic was brought up about how the development team has been pushing out new content constantly as of late while there's still some problems waiting to be fixed, such as certain frames needing an update, or melee 3.0 still not out after years since it was announced. So I have a question for the community at large, and possibly any devs or mods that might come across this topic: Is it possible for DE to take some time to fix existing problems in the game, and to take a break from releasing new content in the mean time?

[sinnae]

A few games I've played have released QoL/spring cleaning updates with explicitly no new content promised, bug fixes and long-overdue UI updates, etc. only. They go over well if you make absolutely certain your playerbase knows nothing "fun" is coming. Would be nice in Warframe but I'm not sure if the f2p model can support long breaks from content drops.

[DeMonkey]

They should definitely take some time to blacklist threads with that exact title, because I swear I've read about 10 this year all with the exact same wording. 

Edited August 19, 2019 by DeMonkey

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

10 minutes ago, Nameless_Nate said:

Is it possible for DE to take some time to fix existing problems in the game, and to take a break from releasing new content in the mean time?

I'd rather they do both. Fix stuff and release new stuff. 

The good thing is they actually do both. 

[(PSN)caffinated_flame]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)SixGunLove said:

I'd rather they do both. Fix stuff and release new stuff. 

The good thing is they actually do both. 

Albeit slowly.

[BlachWolf]

I'd rather have a mix of both, release new content (finally some new disruption nodes), then fix some old like for example survival (I so badly want mini bosses and faster scaling). DE isnt  really good with addressing big chunks at once, which is why I'd rather have them do things bit by bits but with high quality.

[Avienas]

1 hour ago, Nameless_Nate said:

For the past few days, me and a few other long-time players of the game were discussing Warframe and some of it's downsides, such as the Deluxe skins not reflecting much quailty in design as of late. The topic was brought up about how the development team has been pushing out new content constantly as of late while there's still some problems waiting to be fixed, such as certain frames needing an update, or melee 3.0 still not out after years since it was announced. So I have a question for the community at large, and possibly any devs or mods that might come across this topic: Is it possible for DE to take some time to fix existing problems in the game, and to take a break from releasing new content in the mean time?

Plenty of things exist in warframe that could take some major addressing, Gutting out what is effectively USELESS features left in such as extractors, a number of long-forgotten mods that is even worst then tissues in a lottery. Not to mention since they have been doing alot of QoLs that greatly improve some warframe issues such as how Chroma can just recast hex armor, nullifying any gripe they can have with a trinity healing them, yet we got certain frames like Loki that SERIOUSLY could use some cleaning, which is a wonder why he cannot just get the ability to atleast recast invisibility despite the fact we got frames with alot more ridiculousness that if durability had to be balanced with ability potential power, Loki should have at least half the durability of freakin inaros at this point at how much he is lacking these days.

1 hour ago, sinnae said:

A few games I've played have released QoL/spring cleaning updates with explicitly no new content promised, bug fixes and long-overdue UI updates, etc. only. They go over well if you make absolutely certain your playerbase knows nothing "fun" is coming. Would be nice in Warframe but I'm not sure if the f2p model can support long breaks from content drops.

Warframe i do not recall ever taking a full on break from new content to mass QoL some things, unless it was some pre-update 16 era stuff, which they could honestly do some since plenty of issues and bugs are really starting to leak out a nasty pus between transfering back into your warframe can lock up your actions, the archwing wants to lazily keep going up and acts like you have a button perpetually pressed while in archwing mode and does not fix itself till you reset the game. 

Most recent one i remember was when they re-did the weapons and 2 before that being when they scrapped fusing mods & fusion cores to level up stuff and crammed endo in with the other being the scrapping of void keys and putting relics in place, which i was very sure i was on hiatus when those 2 happened. Mainly since they did a massive impact on the core gameplay then just being like how Riot games basically minor tunes a bunch of champions every update and never took the time to fix what causes massive salty issues, which likely does a neglible difference, in warframe`s case being when they get around to putting on some polish for a warframe, but the QoLs are so neglible that its like the frame never got anything at all, Such as ember getting a charge-able fireball & vauban`s last QoL did not really budge his kit at all that much.

Well i am hoping empyrean is being part of that since i would think they could at the very least down-size conclave in a tidy small package that players could enjoy even if they are the only person playing it or drop it altogether, let us manage arcanes without having to go thru the foundry every time, seriously why can`t the mod bench or arsenal be where we manage this without having to go thru an equip screen to fiddle with them. Let us actually manage syndicates in the dojo and actually get around to making dojos less of a slog such as just GIVE a clan access to newer rooms after the first time they build X thing, if it has not been done yet so it can be easier to manage building tidy dojo layouts or just let us get some grid based builder system so we can just straight up make custom dojos.

Plus i already poked at it earlier but they need to do a ability tidy up sweep such as tweak costs, buff durations/range/strength numbers that are absurdly low they might as well be letting us use them for free with no efficiency mods, yet still would not be worth it since the abilities would either do pitiful damage and if they have a debuff effect, it is in such a bad state, it would be a waste of time to even use that ability. Which is CERTAINLY a problem when multiple warframes only get used for 1 ability and the rest gets completely ignored except for meme silly things.

Edited August 19, 2019 by Avienas

[peterc3]

3 hours ago, Nameless_Nate said:

Is it possible for DE to take some time to fix existing problems in the game, and to take a break from releasing new content in the mean time?

During this downtime, do you commit to spending the amount of money others would have spent during this time except they weren't drawn in by new shinies?

[mac10smg--Toa_of_Green]

4 hours ago, Nameless_Nate said:

some of it's downsides, such as the Deluxe skins not reflecting much quailty in design as of late.

1. That’s an opinion, why is it considered a downside

2. The cosmetics are developed separately from gameplay mechanics, how is this evidence of prioritizing new content

3. Why the heck is this the only thing you brought up when there are other perfectly good examples of them prioritizing new content 

[Femuru]

I mean what is new content gonna bring? A flashy video just to hype ppl? Boring gameplay ppl gonna cheese? Story that feels unfinished? Gear that has really no reason to use? Unless it's raids 2.0 or well tuned enemies/gameplay I'm not interested in something new. Steve said they get more players when they release new stuff, cmon anything new that's over hyped gets more ppl but if it doesn't hold up to par only ruin player retention. Then the same pattern follow of ppl leaving only to waste more money to do so again. Ppl said this before millions of registered users nearly as much as overwatch but only a few thousand stay. There are several games that do better than Warframe player/money wise because they make quality content on what theyre trying to be with even less content while Warframe struggles an identity crisis. Not cuz of how much ppl spend on big ads or big streamers, if a game is good enough ppl will flock to it. But hey white knights apparently love seeing the game slowly move backwards rather than add to the conversation so there is a chance we won't see this. 

Edited August 19, 2019 by SutomuDrgn

[Blexander]

8 hours ago, Nameless_Nate said:

Is it possible for DE to take some time to fix existing problems in the game, and to take a break from releasing new content in the mean time?

To put it simply: no.

To go in-depth: they try to fix what they come across. People often forget what responsibilities come with a f2p game. They HAVE to keep making new content. I'd #*!%ing love to have them fix S#&$ that has been been in the game for ages (like how the map decides to glitch constantly and consistently in certain areas on Mars) along with reworking old content like Warframes and enemies, but they CAN'T. They put themselves in a perpetual cycle of "release new content -> people invest funds in the game -> 2 month graze period -> bugs start appearing -> crowd starts demanding more content -> 1 month graze period - release new content" and so on. The cycle is more detailed, but this is basically how it works.

Edited August 20, 2019 by Blexander

[Test-995]

aren't they doing both at same time?

[Aldain]

I say release Empyrean first, then retrofit designs from Empyrean into the older content of the game (which may or may not be the plan).

If they could get a new foundation to build on, they could adjust older content designs in ways that better encourage different or newer playstyles, and get away from some of the more outdated and static mission types (Hijack for example).

But I do think they should do something big and new before dealing with old issues, so as to give people something to do in the downtime.

[(PSN)BenHeisennberg]

10 hours ago, Nameless_Nate said:

For the past few days, me and a few other long-time players of the game were discussing Warframe and some of it's downsides, such as the Deluxe skins not reflecting much quailty in design as of late. The topic was brought up about how the development team has been pushing out new content constantly as of late while there's still some problems waiting to be fixed, such as certain frames needing an update, or melee 3.0 still not out after years since it was announced. So I have a question for the community at large, and possibly any devs or mods that might come across this topic: Is it possible for DE to take some time to fix existing problems in the game, and to take a break from releasing new content in the mean time?

Stopping new content is a fantastic way to kill the game.

They're doing both.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Oh look another one of these threads.

They can’t stop making new content or the game dies. I do wish they invested a little more time into revamping old content sometimes tho.

[Nameless_Nate]

On 2019-08-19 at 10:53 AM, DeMonkey said:

They should definitely take some time to blacklist threads with that exact title, because I swear I've read about 10 this year all with the exact same wording. 

I admit, there's probably a thousand other threads that say this exact same thing. I made this one simply to see what other people had to say on the matter, and whether they had any insights. Though I don't think blacklisting critique would really be fair.

 

16 hours ago, (PS4)BenHeisennberg said:

Stopping new content is a fantastic way to kill the game.

They're doing both.

I should've explained the topic better, that's my bad. What I mean isn't dropping new content altogether, just hold on on big stuff like the open-worlds, side quests, and other huge things. I think nightwave is an attempt at doing supplementary content, but it's flawed as it is right now.

19 hours ago, Blexander said:

To put it simply: no.

To go in-depth: they try to fix what they come across. People often forget what responsibilities come with a f2p game. They HAVE to keep making new content. I'd #*!%ing love to have them fix S#&$ that has been been in the game for ages (like how the map decides to glitch constantly and consistently in certain areas on Mars) along with reworking old content like Warframes and enemies, but they CAN'T. They put themselves in a perpetual cycle of "release new content -> people invest funds in the game -> 2 month graze period -> bugs start appearing -> crowd starts demanding more content -> 1 month graze period - release new content" and so on. The cycle is more detailed, but this is basically how it works.

This is a good point. Over the past years, the fanbase has really grown, and the devs have been focused on drawing in even more to the game, but at the same time this pushes back many needed fixes that the game needs. The only way I can see this cycle be broken is by getting ever more people to work on the game, because even though DE is big, it's not exactly Ubisoft or Bethesda levels of big.

[Blexander]

8 minutes ago, Nameless_Nate said:

This is a good point. Over the past years, the fanbase has really grown, and the devs have been focused on drawing in even more to the game, but at the same time this pushes back many needed fixes that the game needs. The only way I can see this cycle be broken is by getting ever more people to work on the game, because even though DE is big, it's not exactly Ubisoft or Bethesda levels of big.

They don't need the amount employees that those 2 have, but they're not a struggling indie company anymore. Increasing staff members by 25% and sorting them into bug fixing and creative (reworking) teams would greatly improve the state of the game. This way, they don't need to draw resources away from pumping out new content more regularly, and the game gets it's much needed polishing.

[Chicken-Biryani]

7 hours ago, Blexander said:

They don't need the amount employees that those 2 have, but they're not a struggling indie company anymore. Increasing staff members by 25% and sorting them into bug fixing and creative (reworking) teams would greatly improve the state of the game. This way, they don't need to draw resources away from pumping out new content more regularly, and the game gets it's much needed polishing.

Good point. No way all the employees should be engaged in pumping out new content only. 

[Uan91]

They took One year to fix bugs and update the corrente graphic. No. Get over It. There Is not a single bug that take away the fun from this game and of so Is being patched as soon as you report It. Play the game, have fun. 

Edited August 21, 2019 by Uan91

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

On 2019-08-19 at 8:10 PM, Blexander said:

that has been been in the game for ages (like how the map decides to glitch constantly and consistently in certain areas on Mars)

Are you confusing Grineer regulators messing with your map with a bug?

[Blexander]

3 hours ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

Are you confusing Grineer regulators messing with your map with a bug?

No, this is an actual bug. It happens in void sabotage missions too. Let me explain:

As you enter the room with the portal, the map is ok, but once you're near the center of the room or at the portal, the map would start shifting and spinning very fast. It stops glitching once you exit said room.

I'll try to provide proof later, since I'm currently unable to now.

Edit: the pics

Pic 1: map is fine

Pic 2: map is dimmer, but still fine (take note of my location)

Pic 3: the bug

I'll post this in the bug section. I never got around to before. But yeah, this specific bug has been in the game for maybe 2 years or more from what I can remember.

Edited August 21, 2019 by Blexander

[Nameless_Nate]

On 2019-08-20 at 2:52 PM, Blexander said:

They don't need the amount employees that those 2 have, but they're not a struggling indie company anymore. Increasing staff members by 25% and sorting them into bug fixing and creative (reworking) teams would greatly improve the state of the game. This way, they don't need to draw resources away from pumping out new content more regularly, and the game gets it's much needed polishing.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Nameless_Nate]

20 hours ago, Uan91 said:

They took One year to fix bugs and update the corrente graphic. No. Get over It. There Is not a single bug that take away the fun from this game and of so Is being patched as soon as you report It. Play the game, have fun. 

There's been new bugs that's popped up since then. I still enjoy the game, but it's not wrong to point out the kinks it has and wish for them to be fixed.

[ikkabotz]

TLDR; Bug fixes often may come at the end of development life cycle. 

I'm curious if it may have to do with the "Enterprise Life Cycle" of Warframe. I know when we develop our own software we go into O&M (Operations and Maintenance) late into the life cycle of our products— HOWEVER, it does eventually occur as a good amount that which is currently in O&M still has a ton of overhead that can be improved to lower cost. Of course, this may largely be irrelevant to actual gameplay improvements in something like Warframe as we are talking about satisfying customers in a different way. I wouldn't know, I don't work on video games (But sometimes wish I really did!!!). 

Warframe is really pushing outward and onward with their content development. It's a trail blazing approach. Backlog grooming DOES occur, but only to those defects that hold high priority. Otherwise they spend a lot of time pushing for generating income through new warframes and platinum sinks and adding new content to draw in an audience. I respect it for what it is, although I wish there were areas invested in with a different approach in terms of player retention. They know where their cash cow is an push it hard, can't blame them I suppose but I think it sacrifices QOL standards to the game itself which are somewhat disingenuous to the game's full potential. That's also understandable though, I somewhat firmly believe most larger games end up sacrificing their "best potential" to retain a broader audience. And that audience brings dollars.   

Edited August 22, 2019 by ikkabotz

[Gentleman_Bird]

Unfortunately, live service games like Warframe lives and dies on its content flow. I think they discussed this before, player numbers dwindle if they aren't constantly pushing out new content for the game.