New Nuke Frame!!! Might Be Better Than Saryn

[kwlingo]

Mirage use to be my goto when i first started playing Warframe. After going into a Kuva survival I saw a Mirage doing 90% of the kills while a Saryn was not even doing any damage except for primary kills as myself as Nekros desecret. I asked the fellow mate how he is able to do a great job at CC and DPS. He said he was using the new revised Explosive Legerdemain augment. I heard it was a better rework augment but didn't hear much of it after. We knew it worked on the Kuva run but not sure about other runs. We wanted to test it for SO because we knew it didnt scale. I made a quick test trial and I was more impressed than I have been for an augment change in my warframe career thus far. Check out my first attempt build and results going up again MR 25+ Saryns and Volts. The build is not complete as you can see my arcanes and formas are not all there yet. Please test out and see what other thing we can do to make it the new ESO queen.

In SO

In ESO

Edited August 21, 2019 by kwlingo

[(PSN)The1stAzrael]

It's Mirage, chances are, they'll "fix" her again.

Not to be rude, it's just Mirage has had a number of fixes in the past, I believe her Hall of Mirrors ability has something to do with it.

 

...I just looked up the augment, this sounds like it'll definitely be reviewed, once the devs realise what they've inadvertently created.

[Lutesque]

The "Might Be Better than Saryn" Part just feels like click bait....

In any case.... why not set up a controlled test....

Build a Saryn and run her through ESO and then do the same with Mirage ...

Do it with various conditions. 

Solo

Head to Head

Organized Team (EV Trinity)

 

Edited August 21, 2019 by Lutesque

[LarryYourWaiter]

The fact that we are even talking about mirage competing with Saryn is amazing.  Might have to dust off my mirage.  I remember loving her passive...

[sinnae]

Can someone summarize what rework Explosive Legerdemain received? I'm too ADHD to figure it out rn.

[Diangelius]

27 minutes ago, sinnae said:

Can someone summarize what rework Explosive Legerdemain received? I'm too ADHD to figure it out rn.

It gives Mirage's skill 2 the ability to turn pick ups into proximity mines, 500 damage at max rank, 100% status chance.

• Ammo (Cold)
• Affinity Orbs (Toxin)
• Energy Orbs (Electricity)
• Health Orbs (Heat)

There you go! Praise me for aiding a damn ADHD like you! (though I don't know whether it's just because you were goddamn lazy to read just a few lines).

Btw, while only that based 500 damage is affected by mods (range is not), I have no idea what the explosion's range is.

I have never touched her Sleight of Hands or its augment, so if the enemies are attracted to those mines, it would be cool, as both offensive and defensive means, otherwise this augment would not help Mirage being better than Saryn at slaughtering high levels. Any official idea would be really nice for me since I currently don't have much time to test!

Edited August 21, 2019 by Diangelius

[-CdG-Zilchy]

You can't really set a benchmark without first establishing a constant of player skill. Meaning that against a bad Saryn you might do more damage or come closeto equalling them and then next round vs a good Saryn or Volt you go back to doing 5% damage. In short the sample size is too small.

[Bioness]

7 hours ago, Zilchy said:

You can't really set a benchmark without first establishing a constant of player skill. Meaning that against a bad Saryn you might do more damage or come closeto equalling them and then next round vs a good Saryn or Volt you go back to doing 5% damage. In short the sample size is too small.

Right? You also should control for other frames in the group. Show us Mirage in an ESO group that gets to Zone 8 with a Max Strength Rhino, EV Trinity, and Max range high Strength Saryn then it may be great.

Then also Mirage vs. Saryn with no only teammates. Then each solo.

Otherwise relying on a Nekros and RNG pickups doesn't seem like it would be worth it. Many frames could have a group built around them so that they "might be better than Saryn".

[(PSN)drpunk-yo]

I get the impression from Saryn damage dealt in ESO that Mirage got kills from enemies damaged by spores.

Maybe won't work as well without the Saryn.

Dunno. More testing required.

[sinnae]

8 hours ago, Diangelius said:

It gives Mirage's skill 2 the ability to turn pick ups into proximity mines, 500 damage at max rank, 100% status chance.

• Ammo (Cold)
• Affinity Orbs (Toxin)
• Energy Orbs (Electricity)
• Health Orbs (Heat)

There you go! Praise me for aiding a damn ADHD like you! (though I don't know whether it's just because you were goddamn lazy to read just a few lines).

Btw, while only that based 500 damage is affected by mods (range is not), I have no idea what the explosion's range is.

I have never touched her Sleight of Hands or its augment, so if the enemies are attracted to those mines, it would be cool, as both offensive and defensive means, otherwise this augment would not help Mirage being better than Saryn at slaughtering high levels. Any official idea would be really nice for me since I currently don't have much time to test!

My question was more regarding what is the difference between pre-rework augment vs. post-rework augment. I can't find any comparison of hard numbers from before and after the hotfix. And I'd say ADHD and laziness aren't mutually exclusive. Attention issues makes figuring out certain things exhausting, especially when you spend your entire day spending maximum effort on following very basic thought flows; sometimes when it's midnight and your meds have worn off you just want someone to clarify things for you.

[vegetosayajin]

That's just zone 6
Show the the numbers at zone 10-12.
I outdamaged Saryn with Volt until zone 7-8 and than it went faaaaaaaast down.

[WellIHopeThisOneWorks]

My main question for this is.
- Does the low duration make it so the mines just explode almost immediately? I thought they would just disarm if they worn't triggered during the duration time, but if they explode instead I could see this working (not able to get on atm otherwise would test.)

if above does indeed happen (and keeps happening, and is intended to happen, as in DE doesn't patch it out). Then I'd go with something like this

https://tennoware.com/warframes/mirage prime/12443212000d305p405g003n405h005y510w805c105y810y910a903b403

For a bit more survivability at a slight cost to some of your stats. but that's just me (sense I already went Umbral with her for Hall of Malevolence because fun).  

I feel the main issue with this though is the fact that as you stated, It will inevitably fall off hard do it only doing base damage, and, you need to sacrifice going other arguably better builds (like Hall of Malevolence/ Eclipse Eidolon hunting, which rely on duration) to get it to its maximum potential, which it needs in order to even compete long enough with Saryn to be an option.

Still, a good idea none the less, and one to try out, game is about experimentation after all.

Edited August 21, 2019 by WellIHopeThisOneWorks

[actuallyVile]

A Mirage holding a Simulor...f me dead.

Edited August 21, 2019 by -AxHx-Vile

[WellIHopeThisOneWorks]

Just now, -AxHx-Vile said:

A Mirage holding a Simulor...f me dead.

*prepares to turn of extra particle effects* 

[Lutesque]

1 hour ago, (PS4)drpunk-yo said:

I get the impression from Saryn damage dealt in ESO that Mirage got kills from enemies damaged by spores.

The Tick Rate on Saryn's Spores is pretty damn good.... in lower lovels it can steal kills from you by accident and on higher levels it will drastically weaken any targets you haven't gotten around to yet....

38 minutes ago, vegetosayajin said:

That's just zone 6
Show the the numbers at zone 10-12.
I outdamaged Saryn with Volt until zone 7-8 and than it went faaaaaaaast down.

Volt's damage is almost Binary in the Way it works.... in one level  you just delete everything instantly but go up one or two levels and enemies just refuse to die all together. 

[Melanholic7]

ty,will test this aug

[(PSN)PanserKunst]

Not to dis on Mirage as she is a main for me, but I've never gone further in SO or ESO with any frame than Octavia. Mod for range, duration and ability strength. Use "Mallet" and "Amp" only. Cast in a central place on the map (in an open area = Mallet deals damage by line of sight. ***BUT it will damage through doors regardless if they are open or shut.) and leave to another area so as not to compete with your Mallet. I've gone toe to toe with Saryn and won (last player standing) many times. if ya got your game on you should be able to make it to Zone 8.

Edited August 21, 2019 by (PS4)PanserKunst
typo

[kwlingo]

Not even sure about the possibilities of what is possible with this augment yet. I still don't think most are aware of whats going on with the change. The augment is affected by range and power strength (my testing setup was doing 53m explosion/loot and about 900 status damage). My Max range helps create a 106m radius to convert loot/drops. From my experience it is most effective when there are nuke frames because after a nuke all the loots drop, then you cast ability 2 to turn everything from within two rooms length into bomb traps. In small ESO/SO rooms most of the damage will proc all enemies. Example someone nukes 100 enemies, you get 80 loots, then ability 2... 80 loots x 900 damage = 72,000 base status damage (excluding enemy weakens and resistance which will change the values as well). I use Synoid Simulor to help keep my energy replenished from the explosions since its energy heavy spamming.

Here was one of my results finishing Zone 8, was able to out damage one of the Saryn and Im guessing the other one must have had a stronger max strength build. Up till about Zone 6 I was leading the kills and damage but as the ability relies on loots/drops, It was tougher to damage enemies as they got harder to kills and loots didn't drop as often.

I'm still impressed with the results from a simple augment change. It really gave Mirage a different CC/Damage frame build possibility. Ive tested a few runs where I do much more kills/ damage than Saryn or Volts. I'm still learning how builds works but Im curious to see how a veteran player would be able to build somethings more effective.

The only thing that I believe would make this augment better is if it had a combo counter per explosion so it would scale to higher end enemies, which in the end Saryn does have with her spores which will have an endless damage output as long as you can keep the spores going.

Edited August 22, 2019 by kwlingo

[Nichivo]

Solo to round 11 this week and lets see the results. I will not ask you to go past 11 because the tile for 11 is garbage this week, and I wish they would remove it from ESO. No joke! Spawning into tile 11 crushed my will to go on, it's hands down my least favorite ESO tile.

Edited August 22, 2019 by Nichivo

[kwlingo]

@Nichivo from my set up it works best in groups not solo since it required loot from other players helping with kills. The augment relies on loot for damage therefore unless you have a weapon that can kill mass enemies at one time it will not have much effect unless in lower level content. That's why the results in the SO her augment dominates because the enemies health can be depleted  with only a few mines. While in ESO it take a bit more time to kill enemies for Sayrn and Volts which wont allow Mirage to capitalize on the loots till after the kills because it takes more mines to do the trick also. For the setup I playing it leaches off of total group kills. But it does the job well for an augment. lol

Edited August 23, 2019 by kwlingo

[0_The_F00l]

Seems nice,

not sure the testing grounds were neutral or were heavily biased to give you an edge. 

I am not sure we will get the same results in missions where there are no other nukes. 

[Caine2112]

You should check out AGayGuyPlays' youtube video on this very same augment mod, and the stuff that he has synergized with it to make Mirage a true dps beast.  And if I remember correctly, it's a pretty accessible build too.

[ThreeOSix]

Saw this thread and decided to check out the augment.  Threw together a range and strength build.  As a heavy Saryn user and seeing the Saryn nerf thread, i've entirely switched to this build for the time being.  It absolutely destroys in defense leveling up missions.  I've gotten about 5 or 6 rage whispers in the last few groups i've been in today, it's hilarious.  It's actually a brain dead build.  Just let you team kill wave 1 to get the loot drops rolling and then hit your 2...you're done lol.  Hit 2 right as each wave is starting to get the new loot into mines.  That's all you have to do, it's crazy.  One person whispered me and asked if I was hacking since my character was just standing there.  The build in this form is pretty niche, stationary missions it's good.  But since you dump all duration for the range and strength your other abilities are pretty much dead.  I've also made a second build that more balanced, that pairs status weapons and condition overload zaw which is pretty good.  Anyways, anyone looking for something different check out the augment.

[kwlingo]

I was think the only way the augment can scale is if more enemies spawn within the same location. Because the more enemies die = more loot = more mines but unfortunately they don't spawn if you don't kill them. I'm wondering what is the max spawn numbers per mission so we can get a range of Max damage possible?

Also I forgot the mines actually have two damage, the innate blind CC damage on top of the augment damage. I had a 300% power strength build and i was doing over 2k per mine (both proc total). Therefore 50 mines within close range can do 100,000 damage. Imagine 1,000 mines x 2,000 damage = 2,000,000 status damage lol

It definitely scales up much quicker than the Equinox/ Volts Ive played along with in ESO.

Edited August 24, 2019 by kwlingo

[actuallyVile]

Been messing around with this build today...pretty entertaining. And it's making some people very confused seeing it all happen. Saryn is still better for solo though. But this stuff is crazy in squads.
I can feel a nerf "fix" incoming though...just wonder in what way.

 

Edited August 24, 2019 by -AxHx-Vile

[kwlingo]

20 hours ago, -AxHx-Vile said:

Been messing around with this build today...pretty entertaining. And it's making some people very confused seeing it all happen. Saryn is still better for solo though. But this stuff is crazy in squads.
I can feel a nerf "fix" incoming though...just wonder in what way.

Sad truth but I do think it will also get nerf.

Right 90% of the ESO runs people dont know what is going on. I just get comments like "wtf, oof or what are those things on the ground" most missions. ahahah

I hope not because it finally gives Mirage a usable CC build. It's almost like Hildryn's Decaying Dragon Key build. You can use it and become invulnerable to death but the rest of your abilities are worthless. Same with Mirage's CC/Damage build. The rest of her abilities wont be worth casting and you are able to get one shot very easy. lol

Edited August 25, 2019 by kwlingo