I don't hate Rhino

[cmacq]

This topic might have some relevancy if there was really any difficulty to the game. Nine times out of ten I spend my time in missions chasing people who insist on going absolutely as fast as they can to finish it. In open world I spend half my time either rezzing people or pissed off because they bring frames that are so weak/set up so poorly, they die constantly. This entire thread is nothing but troll bait as it has no relevance to how the game is actually played. How many people actually make it to this so-called difficult endgame?

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

5 hours ago, sleepychewbacca said:

Have you met Revenant and Mesmer Skin? 

You mean that trash Warframe with the single most over rated tank ability of all time?

[withinmyself]

8 hours ago, sleepychewbacca said:

Have you met Revenant and Mesmer Skin? 

That being said, the easiest solution is, just don't play Rhino for yourself. Why worry about the common player? You do you, I do me, life goes on.

I don't.  Actually my second least played frame in Warframe is Rhino with Rhino Prime coming in shortly after at 0.1% with over 1500 in-game hours put into Warframe. 

So I do agree.  This doesn't effect my own personal game play one bit.  Don't use Rhino.  Problem solved. 

My frustration comes more from running a Clan and helping out new players.  Rhino is easily obtainable early on so a lot of new players will gravitate towards him and then they get frustrated or bored later on and it's hard to transition them to a different frame because:

1. They haven't spent very much time upgrading frame Mods because they haven't branched out to alternative builds or frames.

2. They haven't played Warframe in any other way other than being a Tank.  ( I understand that Rhino has other abilities )

3. They expect other frames to be just as easy to adapt to as Rhino.

And I understand there are other Meta Tanks in Warframe: Revenant, Inaros, Nezha, Nidus just to name a few but these frames aren't near as easy to acquire and they have alternate builds available to play different styles.

 

[withinmyself]

3 hours ago, cmacq said:

This entire thread is nothing but troll bait as it has no relevance to how the game is actually played. How many people actually make it to this so-called difficult endgame?

When I say late endgame I'm referring to Arbitration when enemies are lvl130+ or over an hour on Mot or multiple Hard Index in a row or (very rarely) SOME of the sorties or going deep in the newer game mode, Disruption which is getting ready to get overhauled by adding Disruption at Kuva Fortress so this will definitely be a go-to endgame mode that could get difficult after an hour or so.  And to some extent Orb Mother.

I don't mention Eidolon hunts because it is so set in Meta.

I really didn't mean for this to be troll bait as much as an honest conversation about this frame. 

[sleepychewbacca]

1 minute ago, withinmyself said:

I don't.  Actually my second least played frame in Warframe is Rhino with Rhino Prime coming in shortly after at 0.1% with over 1500 in-game hours put into Warframe. 

So I do agree.  This doesn't effect my own personal game play one bit.  Don't use Rhino.  Problem solved. 

My frustration comes more from running a Clan and helping out new players.  Rhino is easily obtainable early on so a lot of new players will gravitate towards him and then they get frustrated or bored later on and it's hard to transition them to a different frame because:

1. They haven't spent very much time upgrading frame Mods because they haven't branched out to alternative builds or frames.

2. They haven't played Warframe in any other way other than being a Tank.  ( I understand that Rhino has other abilities )

3. They expect other frames to be just as easy to adapt to as Rhino.

And I understand there are other Meta Tanks in Warframe: Revenant, Inaros, Nezha, Nidus just to name a few but these frames aren't near as easy to acquire and they have alternate builds available to play different styles.

 

People will always find the path of least resistance to doing something if they want to. I don't really understand why you worry about other players so much. 

Heck I do it often. Nothing wrong with that. Everyone is free to play no matter how they want to even if others may disagree with it. 

In this case if a player has 90% playtime on Rhino and ignores all other frames, and they're happy with that, I see nothing wrong. If I'm helping someone and they don't want to use anything other than Rhino that's fine too. 

 

[withinmyself]

3 hours ago, sinnae said:

In order to get to this so-called "endgame," players have to build, play and master a few dozen other frames. So, your theory probably falls apart soon after the end of the starchart junctions.

Anyone can throw on a new frame and take it to Helene and Max it out.  It takes more to actually use these frames in real missions. 

[HugintheCrow]

3 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

You mean that trash Warframe with the single most over rated tank ability of all time?

I absolutely love how you always lose your S#&$ whenever Revenant is mentioned. It sometimes makes me wanna make threads praising him or something.

[withinmyself]

8 hours ago, Dhrekr said:

Yes I am also a fan of the 2014 video where AGGP expresses the same thing, in much better terms than you do now.

Do you have anything new to add, aside from repeating talking points that come from the prehistory of the game?

Fair point.  I have never seen this video so I apologize if I am repeating opinions and arguments that have already been made.

[(PSN)tissot555]

8 hours ago, Dhrekr said:

Yes I am also a fan of the 2014 video where AGGP expresses the same thing, in much better terms than you do now.

Do you have anything new to add, aside from repeating talking points that come from the prehistory of the game?

What does the word prehistory mean...

[withinmyself]

7 hours ago, Alexcavalera said:

Why? Can you please elaborate?
Why does it  it will fail in endgame content ? I see where are you getting, but saying he fails in endgame content its harsh, because if you play well  it doesn't .I rather think he is very enjoyableto play! he has Tankiness+Support+CC . I love is looks. Why the hate?
Why do you say playing whith him makes the game easy? I can say the same about Saryn, Nidus, Wukong, Khora, Mesa ( Mesa is a Aim-Bot!! Isn´t that making the game supoer easy? A AIM-BOT!!  What did he did to you? Why the hate about him?? And not with the other OP frames?.
 You say Players feel "safe" ( because he is tanky i guess? Correct if wrong. But there are much Tankier frames than him), and then you say they will fail in endgame.. He is no longer tanky? I use Rhino and i think i manage pretty well in endgame content...
You can Play Rhino and the other 39 frames. He doesnt limitate your choices..but our mind yes!

To be honest I really don't know why.  I'm only speaking from the experience of being in Arbitration for a few rounds and the Rhino dies first.  I wouldn't think that should happen but it does quite a bit. 

I have no doubt that any frame in this game can be managed well and taken into any content, including Rhino.  I think my point is that he is deceptively simple early on which leads to players not knowing how to properly Mod a frame. 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

15 minutes ago, HugintheCrow said:

I absolutely love how you always lose your S#&$ whenever Revenant is mentioned. It sometimes makes me wanna make threads praising him or something.

Yeah, not a good idea. Half the fun of it is the conversations organically leading to Revenant and then me bursting in like the Kool Aid man on a roid rage.

If you just create artificial scenarios then it losses its luster.

Edited August 20, 2019 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[Aldain]

Ah yes, one of those "concern" threads that are just a mask used to conceal frame/player bashing for not conforming to the ideals of how this game "should" be played.

Fun.

[cmacq]

3 minutes ago, withinmyself said:

To be honest I really don't know why.  I'm only speaking from the experience of being in Arbitration for a few rounds and the Rhino dies first.  I wouldn't think that should happen but it does quite a bit. 

I have no doubt that any frame in this game can be managed well and taken into any content, including Rhino.  I think my point is that he is deceptively simple early on which leads to players not knowing how to properly Mod a frame. 

The fact is Rhino is hard to beat when it comes to solo index. Ofc that does dictate that you look into builds etc. which I have certainly done with mine, including acquiring the right mods. I do not die first but then I also know how to play him correctly.

[sinnae]

43 minutes ago, withinmyself said:

Anyone can throw on a new frame and take it to Helene and Max it out.  It takes more to actually use these frames in real missions. 

Nobody is disputing that. Not sure why you quoted me though.

Edit: to clarify, yes, ofc, you can get to high MR basically buying and powerleveling things, but I think this specific issue of "when iron skin runs out in a high damage zone, you will die, so don't solely rely on it" even the most P2W player will pick up on before they're done with their junctions.

I also think invis frames also teach far "worse" habits than Rhino's iron skin...you can basically sleepwalk through high-level content with stealth frames.

Edited August 20, 2019 by sinnae

[Cloudyvisage]

I think you're under-estimating people wanting to try out new things. Rhino is just one frame, if he's your favorite frame, well, then whatever, presumably you're working on figuring out all the specific niches he performs well at and how to build him to suit your playstyle. If you're just grabbing Rhino because you need to tank and you don't usually run tank frames, such as when you're going to Arbitrations, well, I'm not sure what is to be expected there.

Rhino is a crutch but unless people get fixated on him for some reason he's a crutch they don't need so they will move on. As an example, I used Valkyr as a crutch for quite a while, she let me do sorties with the vets and survive in situations that I had no right to live through, I knew I could be relevant because hysteria let me fight alongside those vets because I didn't need to worry about death for the next minute and a half. I played her quite a bit while I was at that in-between stage of competency and gear effectiveness. I barely use Valkyr at all anymore, I've always been a Volt main, a squishy character, then they nerfed him, buffed him and ESO came out and now he is somehow meta, times change.

[HugintheCrow]

28 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Yeah, not a good idea. Half the fun of it is the conversations organically leading to Revenant and then me bursting in like the Kool Aid man on a roid rage.

If you just create artificial scenarios then it losses its luster.

I guess you're right. Good luck with your crusade.

[Zakual]

I just use him for index really. Thats it. 

Want to try endless stun builds if thats still a thing but other than that meh. 

I think there are far fewer people running around on rhino than you make it seem.

[z3us32610]

8 hours ago, ShortCat said:

A yes, I remember that time of overused Rhino P. Boltor P and Carrier P. loadouts. They were called rhinoobs and bullied for the low effort playstyle.

This issue is present today and extends far beyond Rhino. Inaros or other Frames with low effort 90% DR skills nourish bad game habbits. Then we could add weapons like Plasmor, Ignis or Catchmoon that forfeit aiming. As a result, if you desire, you can build the lowest effort loadout and win the game without breaking a sweat. At the same time Warfraem has no difficulty setting, so that your gear decides your difficulty setting and helps new gamers.
It only gets critical when players, who never let go of support wheels begin to voice their opinions.

You are absolutely on point about this. I'm not sure why OP is so concerned about how others play, but when I was early game I couldn't wait to get the Arca-Plasmor. As such, my top used items still are: Ash Prime, Arca-Plasmor, Pyrana Prime. Then I acquired a few rivens that prompted me to build the weapons I got them for and really started to enjoy exploring all the different weapons. Now, it is extremely rare that I use the Plasmor. Once I got the first Umbra Forma I put it on Nezha and made a full Umbral-Adaptation build that is unkillable. Not Inaros boring unkillable but still, really low challenge unkillable.

So the progression was to use all the frames more and in higher content. I just put the second Umbra Forma on Garuda and even though my build with her is Full Umbral-Adaptation, she goes down fairly easy if I'm not paying attention in higher content (level 80+). This in turn makes playing her much more exciting and consequently, the game more exciting. 

Not sure why OP is so concerned with this limiting players. I encounter countless players using Inaros/Chroma with Ignis/Catchmoon and/or spin 2 win and I think it points to the massive casual player base Warframe has. I'm an admitted no-lifer, so in order to keep the game interesting, I started exploring all the different loadouts I could come up with. I think the majority of players don't play daily for hours and just want to come in and be a god that mows everything down with ease. And that is perfectly fine.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

12 hours ago, withinmyself said:

I just feel that his existence in Warframe limits players to a certain extent in which they feel "safe" therefore they don't pursue any alternative paths to try and solve problems that will help them in late endgame content. Content that even a seasoned Rhino player will consistently fail at. And I feel like this is an extreme decrement to the growth of endgame players. Or at least the growth of enjoyment in the common Warframe player.

It's a generalist frame, which is true. He's not going to ever be as good at any given role, as other frames. He's not the best tank, he's not the best at buffing, he's not the best nuker, he's not the best at cc, and not the best at dealing damage. 

But he's the best at being a generalist. He'll do his stomp mini-nukes through most of the starchart, and cc those enemies that don't immediately die, but he'll also take the hits coming in, while boosting the damage of all of his team that are in range. 

And for the vast majority of the content in this game, he's a perfectly acceptable choice. Especially since, as most people will tell you, there's no real endgame content in warframe. 

[MiMiren]

16 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Especially since, as most people will tell you, there's no real endgame content in warframe.

Are you crazy? Don't tell him that, what if he won't be able to sleep at night anymore? HAVE MERCY!!!

[Cloudyvisage]

Rhino isn't a specific, long lasting problem, it's more of a generalized tank problem. Or even a problem of complacency. I play volt with Capacitance and am used to being at 1650 overshields at pretty much all times, making it quite difficult for pretty much anything to kill me without me being able to react, laugh at how shields are bad as much as you want but having that much of them that regenerate at about 1200 shields a second in combat, well, it works pretty well.

Anyway, every now and then I run around with a frame with no obvious survivability abilities and haven't modded for it yet, usually due to forma, (The most recent was my Nyx Prime) and I get complacent because I'm used to about a second and a half of survivability in area with x level of difficulty.

I know this happens with players that get too used to characters like Octavia, Loki and, to a lesser degree, Ivara in that they become slightly expectant of invisibility. In Arbitrations, if you see a frame has 300% strength, well, if you don't dislike the frame, you might just go for it and if you don't usually play rhino and don't have his recast augment, well, even the best of us are incompetent at times.

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

10 hours ago, Ver1dian said:

While I do hate Rhino with a passion I don't see a reason for threads like this. 
Someone shouldn't demand that what is fun for others be taken away.

What bothers me a lot more is a sort of discontent between the two main play styles raging around the forum.
On one side are the squishys angrily attacking anyone with a tanky frame for being an absolute noob who doesn't know how to play, simply because they don't like to jump around like a frog on acid.
And on the other, there are those tanks, which realized after an encounter with a caster frame that their Arca Plasmor spam isn't king of the hill and deemed it unfair for some reason, since they should be able to also compete in damage. 

Can't we all just play the way we want and leave others be?

CC players forgotten again.  Aren't we even worth a thinly veiled insult?  

 

[Lutesque]

Isn't being safe kinda the whole point ?

Why Gimp Yourself by using a squishy Frame... ?

[nslay]

9 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

You mean that trash Warframe with the single most over rated tank ability of all time?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/bjeze1/new_kuva_world_record_24_hours/

 

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

Uhm, I'm new and still need rhino. I've been playing like a month gimme a break. I'm building Limbo right now but I have to wait 11hrs....hows that my fault. 

 

I still need 87,000 Ayatan Sculptures so I can mod, and I still have to wait every week for Baro to get Primed mods. I only have 2 riven mods, need endo and credits for those as well...

 

And I only have so many frame space, I had to delete my level 30 mag to make room for other frames lol.

 

I'm sorry we can't all be prodigies like you 😋