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surprise shortening of the prime vault


--RV--Earth
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personally, i have saved up valkyr and venka sets for about a year, it is risky but it was worth it. finally price has reached the same price i am selling and then it dropped by half. pricing is player decision and on that part DE doesn't have direct responsibility but they can influence it indirectly.  DE is responsible for shortening the time of the unvaulting so suddenly instead of saying at the start that it will be a shorter unvaulting. if players knew about this they would decrease the prices by a bit so that they can get rid of the sets quickly instead of seeing listings for what is now 80 plat under what it was before the announcement. hording prime vaulted sets is and in every prime unvaulting you take the risk of the next prime being the one you are selling which is why you start to lower the price bit by bit until it is either revealed if its that prime you are selling or if it is then you get rid of it for as much as you can. DE suddenly shortened from what is close to a month to a bit over 10 days and named the new unvaulted warframes which screwed the "start to lower the price bit by bit untill it is revealed" part.

as a player who farmed and bought those vaulted relics, farmed long for those sets, and waited close to a year for profit i am outraged. not because of the lost profit but because of all the times i went to baro and was flooded with items i had to remember if i am selling them for plat or for ducats for a year, for farming all those hours and waiting all that time patiently to see the fruits of my time and efforts. 

EDIT: i am seeing a lot of msgs talking about beta and this post being about lost profit and ill make a few comments. if you didn't read by the title, this is about them shortening the vault not about lost profit because of the shortening. i admit that yes, this is a gamble because you dont know which warframe comes out, and yet you intend to sell them a long time before they come out BECAUSE during the amount of TIME until they come out the price lowers, NAMING the warframes is not what this is about, there is no gambling in selling them a month before they release even if you know if that will be that warframe. the problem here is not announcing that it will be a shorter prime vault, but them taking time from people who were building on 2 months to build on 1 month.

Secondly: OFFICIALLY the game IS in beta, but both the devs and the players know that in warframe, a lot of things that are on paper are different from their execution.  the game is lacking content so the game is not complete. the story of warframe is not complete, and the leftover content is equivalent to base game and not fancy dlc for an already published game, which is why it is allowed to have drastic changes. prime openings have an announced date of opening and an announced day of closing but this is what i believe the first time it is changed and in such a drastic length. the correct way to handle this would have been to say the actual length from the start. the game is subjected to drastic changes but we always get notified about those changes, its not like when poe came out we opened warframe to a surprise open world. this is not the same scale but its about the scale of if they said nightwave ends 3 weeks shorter to make room for season 3, when you builded on not playing warframe for the past 4 weeks and needed those 3 weeks to get all the rewards from the season. would you still call it a gamble if you builded on something that was OFFICIALLY ANNOUNCED? no, you would blame DE for not stating the correct time from the beginning.

Edited by --RV--Earth
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So DE changes unvaults over and over to please players, and this is just the latest one. And yet here we are again with the same old.

Which begs the question: Is there anything, anything at all, players will not complain about?

The answer is no, there is not. And the solution for that is usually to accept reality if we draw the short straw. Which happens to everyone eventually. In this case DE has decided that it was worth cutting the end date shorter for the greater good. I don't understand, however, how a 2-week difference would make such an impact in the changes they announced.

The vault itself will aparently be more accessible, but I did not grasp all of what this change seems to entail. If anything DE made it seem like there'll be a greater rotation of frames with each unvault, making it easier for players to collect the vaulted gear they are still missing. As for prices and players trying to sell at the highest possible price, well, that's why I gave up on profitting from prime parts a long time ago. I'm better served selling them to Baro or just gifting said parts to players who actually need them. 

Edited by (PS4)Hikuro-93
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You should have sold them sooner. The price free fall isnt caused be the vault getting shortened, it's the mere announcement of of the 2 frames that sent their prices down. This is your risk in selling vaulted stuff, especially stuff that has been vaulted for a long time. It would have been safer to keep selling sets over a longer time so you dont put all your eggs into one basket.

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59 minutes ago, --RV--Earth said:

this is not about lost profit, its them shortening it by a month which caused the lost profit. please read what it says

In any and every situation where you're dealing in Futures, any single thing they say will cause a gain or a loss. Markets fluctuate wildly and only over time does any sense get made from it. The difference between 'lost profits' and 'time lost that caused them' is non-existent, because that's the nature of Futures.

Beyond that, since Platinum is a made up currency that is not re-tradeable for real world money, they have absolute and total control over it, it's a closed system dependent entirely upon the player interest. Any and all profit you claim to have lost is a fiction, you didn't have wealth at all, you had the simulation of it, dictated by the whims of its creator. Just like a simple matter of inflation makes your dollars, euros and pounds not buy what they used to, the same can be said of DE's decisions, with that one caveat of it not being real money anymore.

Their decision to shorten this particular timer by one month, therefore, is not only their complete and total right, it is also something that you, the trader, cannot predict the longer term outcome of. Because again, it's player interest in a made-up currency. In the short term? Yeah, what you have has devalued in a fictional currency. But in the longer term, the availability may cause those to become worth more because of the predictability of future unvaultings and how long they may go between availability.

At that point it becomes a matter of time versus demand, just like the rest of the free-to-play model. Sure a player might know that in ten months the vault they want will roll around again, thanks to a predictable schedule, but who wants to play a game without their desired shiny thing for ten whole months? At that point it becomes a sellers market, and your imaginary profit margins will increase again.

Removing the 'unknown' factor from this system, as in the part where we don't know which frames are unvaulted next, can only benefit sellers in the long run.

But, if I had to predict something?

I predict that your 'loss' from this month shorter Vault duration will be nothing, nothing at all, when compared with the other thing that DE announced; that the oldest Primes will begin to be available independent of Unvaultings. A separate system, maybe tied to a drop table in a specific area of the game, and that, my friend, is far more disruptive to your hoarding.

If older frames become available outside of the known systems, how do you account for any of them? How do you have any value from any of those stored items other than 'are they available right now, or not?' as your guide?

So hopefully this little, tiny, tame, run-of-the-mill setback to your 'profits' has prepared you. This regulated Unvaulting system may, in fact likely will, give you some better profits long-term, but the more sinister aspect is still to come.

Do have fun with that thought ^^

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3 hours ago, --RV--Earth said:

because of all the times i went to baro and was flooded with items i had to remember if i am selling them for plat or for ducats for a year, for farming all those hours and waiting all that time patiently to see the fruits of my time and efforts.

Well, there's no guarantee that your time and efforts will pay off...ever...

So...outrage you might be, you can't put this on DE.

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DE really shouldn't be prioritizing the development of their game around the concerns of market speculators. 

You gambled and lost this time. If you've been doing this for any length, I'm sure there have been other times DE decisions resulted in more profit for you.

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4 hours ago, --RV--Earth said:

this is not about lost profit, its them shortening it by a month which caused the lost profit. please read what it says

 

the game is in constant beta and is subject to massive changes without much/any warning.  you agreed to this when you accepted it was a beta game and played it anyway.

i feel for you.  i too lost some profit potential.  sucks.  but crying on the forums A) changes nothing B) also changes nothing.

investment of that kind is a risk.  you know what you might be better off doing than buying stuff to sell later?

go grind some relics and generate parts for free.  then sell them for 100% profit and you never have to worry about losses again... cool right?

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Il y a 10 heures, (PS4)Hikuro-93 a dit :

Which begs the question: Is there anything, anything at all, players will not complain about?

I Don't like kubrows, they should be wolves.

Il y a 8 heures, tychondus a dit :

Warframe is not stock market. Warframe is a game. And DE is most certainly not beholden to player centric market.

And can mess up  with  hoarders as much as they want.

Il y a 6 heures, Klokwerkaos a dit :

the game is in constant beta and is subject to massive changes without much/any warning.  you agreed to this when you accepted it was a beta game and played it anyway.

i feel for you.  i too lost some profit potential.  sucks.  but crying on the forums A) changes nothing B) also changes nothing.

investment of that kind is a risk.  you know what you might be better off doing than buying stuff to sell later?

go grind some relics and generate parts for free.  then sell them for 100% profit and you never have to worry about losses again... cool right?

The game is released, it's evolving, something well sometimes poorly, this has nothing to do with beta since we've been out of it for years (Seen any founders pack around lately ? no it was during beta...). Change doesn't mean Beta...

You're right.

Speculation is one of the worst thing ever imagined by humanity.

Op go do that, you won't have to complain about your poor abilities to speculate. (Part of speculation is to know things can change, to never take any informations for granted... If you don't want the risks don't engage in it!)

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5 hours ago, AkyFenrir said:

Change doesn't mean Beta...

Except when the game devs actually say it's beta.  they have to do that to make it compliant so that they can change it however they want since they can"t sell anything that is a guaranteed product.  your statement is factually incorrect, please stop spreading information thinking you know what you're talking about when you aren't actually informed.

Edited by Klokwerkaos
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vor 5 Stunden schrieb Klokwerkaos:

Except when the game devs actually say it's beta.  they have to do that to make it compliant so that they can change it however they want since they can"t sell anything that is a guaranteed product.  your statement is factually incorrect, please stop spreading information thinking you know what you're talking about when you aren't actually informed.

Calling warframe a beta has lost all meaning. Warframe lives on it changing, evolving and getting more content so the day you call warframe a finished game it's over. It's at most a technical term to get away with changes but any meaning behind it is lost because a game being a beta implies that it will at some point stop being a beta. 

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3 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

Calling warframe a beta has lost all meaning. Warframe lives on it changing, evolving and getting more content so the day you call warframe a finished game it's over. It's at most a technical term to get away with changes but any meaning behind it is lost because a game being a beta implies that it will at some point stop being a beta. 

actually, it has a legal definition, one that is substantially more vallid than a colloquial definition you are relying on.

this is why warframe does this.  they say it's beta specifically to indicate that this kind of stuff, can, does, and will happen, and we all agree to it by playing the game, which means, very clearly, it's your fault for playing, deal with it.

just like with any market, unexpected changes can destablize things.  that happens here.  they warned you. if you ignored it and just accepted the tos without thinking, legally, that's your problem and your fault and your responsibility.  if you don't like it, wait till the game is out of beta, eta never.

Edited by Klokwerkaos
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2 hours ago, Drachnyn said:

It's at most a technical term to get away with changes

You're both right though, it definitely is a technical term to get away with changes, but that's the point. By making this game a Beta for the entire process that has enabled DE to negotiate deals with both Microsoft and Sony to allow constant, interference-free updates that can drop at any point. They have effectively bypassed the weeks-long certification phase on console by having this status.

Beyond that it means that they can bring out any and all new content as and when they create it, use the public build as their testing realm, and have the entire player base as their bug-finders for things their tests miss. They can do stupid content like Frame Fighter because the game has no fixed genre, and their current ESRB rating covers pretty much any of the more adult content (blood, gore, binaural horror themes) that they want to create too.

Being a Beta is kind of meaningless to the players, it may only be a technical term to you, but it means everything to the continued development of the game ^^

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On 2019-08-21 at 4:54 PM, Birdframe_Prime said:

 

Beyond that, since Platinum is a made up currency that is not re-tradeable for real world money, they have absolute and total control over it, it's a closed system dependent entirely upon the player interest. Any and all profit you claim to have lost is a fiction, you didn't have wealth at all, you had the simulation of it, dictated by the whims of its creator. Just like a simple matter of inflation makes your dollars, euros and pounds not buy what they used to, the same can be said of DE's decisions, with that one caveat of it not being real money anymore.

 

not that i need the plat but are you saying that if i had no plat and a 75% discount on plat so i would be highly inclined into purchasing a platinum bundle i wouldn't have lost profit? premium currency may not be sold for real money although there are illegal websites where you can find people who sell plat for real money, but it costs real money, there is a reason de makes profit from free to play players because they trade with non free to play players and people use plat and remove it out of the game buying items off the market, making less plat in the game, and then having people buy plat bundles because the economy lost a lot of plat. if you for say talked about credits a really non tradeable currency then you would be right about it having no real world value. its like monopoly money, its not worth anything until you lose too much and then you need to buy it because you need it to play the game. not that you need plat to play the game but the metaphor applies.

(also idk why u took profit into real world money obviously i didnt make money from playing warframe, im playing a game to have fun not to work)

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9 hours ago, --RV--Earth said:

not that i need the plat but are you saying that if i had no plat and a 75% discount on plat so i would be highly inclined into purchasing a platinum bundle i wouldn't have lost profit?

You lost profit the moment you bought an imaginary currency. That's the point I'm making there.

You didn't pay for Platinum, you paid for the Game itself. In a small contribution at least. As a reward, you were able to get Platinum for 'purchasing' in game 'items'.

You paid money to the game in return for something completely fictional, and your money is gone. What you get out of it is non-existent, what value that non-existent thing gains or loses within that fictional framework is immaterial.

The moment you submitted real, functional currency to the game, a closed system, in return for non-functional currency, you became completely and totally at the mercy of the framework around that fictional currency.

You would have gotten more actual value out of the money you spent if you'd actually gone and bought Monopoly money, because that at least has some value beyond its game (I would recommend it as a way to start a camp-fire on the beach, it's easily portable, highly flammable, and you can keep it in a little bag to ensure the water doesn't get at it).

So you can argue about the real world value of Platinum all you like. But your investment was into the game, not into Plat, and how much perceived value you get out of that investment into the game is subject to change at any time.

Your belief that your bought, or that anyone bought, the premium currency 'Platinum' is the fiction that fuels your argument, and you need to realise it. You paid for Warframe, not Platinum, and so the value of Platinum is and always has been zero.

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This reminds me of the time I sold my Maiming Strike one hour before Acolytes were revealed to be coming out. That was rollercoaster of emotions. Bet the guy I sold to felt terrible, and I do admit I feel a little guilty (even if there was no way I could have known either.)

Supply and demand. If there is no supply, you can bet somebody's going to take that untapped market. In this case, DE has.

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