Warframe has no Longevity

[Ikyr0]

37 minutes ago, White_Matter said:

We feel you brother. But this has been an ongoing issue for how many years now ? Been a while I'd say and there has been countless forum threads on the matter, created by vets like us.

I think DE has a working model and they don't want to meddle with it. Simple as that.

True, their working model is the epitome of mediocrity but it is working and bringing them money. Their target profile is beginner to intermediate level players, which are the majority of the game. I'd say around 50-70%. So as long as their model pleases them and some others, that model is here to stay.

I've given up hope on end game a while ago, I only wish we had more frequent content drops. Case in point, we are in the middle of another(among many) content draughts, and likely we won't be getting anything till mid-late fall(being optimistic). 

it's a constant cycle of DE hyping things up, and delivering something very mediocre. case and point: Fortuna, aka PoE 2.0. Fortuna has already been long forgotten. people just do Orb fights to get X reward, and then it's done because the fights themselves aren't very fun.

[ThumpumGood]

1 minute ago, Ikyr0 said:

it's a constant cycle of DE hyping things up, and delivering something very mediocre. case and point: Fortuna, aka PoE 2.0. Fortuna has already been long forgotten. people just do Orb fights to get X reward, and then it's done because the fights themselves aren't very fun.

Like I told the OP. If you're bored, dont create drama so you can storm out. DE isnt your GF/BF and isnt gonna be mad if you're seeing other games. Login, get your daily, go play something else. I took a 2 year break from WF and Im having more fun than ever. Tho I do feel boredom creeping in and will prolly take a shorter break this time. But I'll log in every day. Would have Zylok and Sigma & Octantis if I had done that thru my break.  I still play my consoles and some  single player PC games and am getting the urge to focus on one of them. Content for DE is slow. Faster than it used to be, but slow. AND they're johnny on it when it comes to fixes. Best in the industry IMHO and I've been playing PC games since they were text only. (5 1/4 ftw).

[Ikyr0]

2 minutes ago, ThumpumGood said:

Like I told the OP. If you're bored, dont create drama so you can storm out. DE isnt your GF/BF and isnt gonna be mad if you're seeing other games. Login, get your daily, go play something else. I took a 2 year break from WF and Im having more fun than ever. Tho I do feel boredom creeping in and will prolly take a shorter break this time. But I'll log in every day. Would have Zylok and Sigma & Octantis if I had done that thru my break.  I still play my consoles and some  single player PC games and am getting the urge to focus on one of them. Content for DE is slow. Faster than it used to be, but slow. AND they're johnny on it when it comes to fixes. Best in the industry IMHO and I've been playing PC games since they were text only. (5 1/4 ftw).

no one is being disrespectful, forums are for discussions and feedback. I'm glad youre having fun (i was as well 500 hours ago), but this thread is very much for people who are bored. and they are leaving feedback for DE. no drama here.

Edited August 21, 2019 by Ikyr0

[5H4DE]

If this game manages to keep even 3 out of 10 new players playing for 5 years I'd say it's not gonna die anytime soon. I understand where you come from, also been playing the game for a long time, got all the warframes (Wu P crafting atm) and most weapons, done pretty much everything, hell I even did a bit of conclave. Right now I'm only playing to get nightwave done and weekly ayatan while I patiently wait for content to drop as I play other games, something DE is well aware that most of the vets do and it's not a warframe or looter shooter exclusive thing. No matter what game you play, you will get to the point where there's nothing left for you to do in the game so your only option to not burn out is to play something else while you wait for content to drop. Me personally I play For Honor while waiting for warframe content (also feeds my need for PvP which is really poor in wf) it keeps me just fine from burning out and I'll be all ready to devour Empyrean when it drops.

Edited August 21, 2019 by TheRealShade

[Corvid]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

I also kinda try to wrap my head around how he claims that the game has been "steadily dying" since specters of the rail.

How does that make any sense when the game has grown every year? I really hope he isnt a doctor since that may lead to many living and kicking people being declared dead and burried.

Reminds me of that SovietWomble moment.

"I now pronounce you legally Dead!" "Could I get a second opinion?"

[ThumpumGood]

7 minutes ago, Ikyr0 said:

no one is being disrespectful, forums are for discussions and feedback. I'm glad youre having fun (i was as well 500 hours ago), but this thread is very much for people who are bored. and they are leaving feedback for DE. no drama here.

Look at how long it took for Skyrim to come out. There was no online component. This game is still unfinished. Step back and look at the game as a whole from a point of view of never having played it. I can see these types of comments if the game were at lv 30 and they were  struggling for new content, but you arent taking this into perspective. It's like judging a Lamborghini they're testing out that doesnt have the rear fenders yet as being boring. This kind of discussion shouldnt be a thing before MR30. Ok, if it's outright crap, I get it. But the game is developing and changing all of the time. Look at just the recent updates to POE and OV. Look at what's coming with Railjack. Stop looking at the missing fenders before the car is complete.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

4 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

So,

and yet,

....

You've played this game for five years.

Ayy you beat me to it. This thread is dumb.

[Chappie]

11 minutes ago, ThumpumGood said:

 Stop looking at the missing fenders before the car is complete.

This car will never be complete though...that might be a problem for some.     Fact is most people don't like change.    The OP came to this game under a certain set of conditions and latched on to those...then the conditions changed.   That is why when things change in my life I say to myself "change is inevitable, growth is optional".     The OP doesn't want to continue to grow with the game...his choice.   Some day this game might change and rub you really the wrong way...what then?

In a late stage use case:

• This game went from 1+ hour runs to this capture mission took more than 2 minutes
• This game went from everyone needs CP and camp in a room to "can I roll my face on the keyboard"
• This game went from if you don't use meta X you suck to "please make sure not to put your pants on your head"

The game is still a bit cruel when it comes to the  technical aspects but for the most part is much more casual friendly.   So...is DE making the game they want or the game you want.   See the difference?

I feel a bit for the OP...he/she/it/attack chopper is grieving in their own EMOTIONAL way....but it won't keep me up at night.

Edited August 21, 2019 by Chappie1975

[CatboyPrincess]

3 hours ago, HugintheCrow said:

You cannot make "evergreen" content in a looter game (even the fan-favourite Diablo is just "le infinitely increasing hp and damage lol", which is something that's freely available in Warframe).

That is why if you have looter games as your "main games" you are a dumb-dumb. Like OP seems to be.

There's no need to be rude and ignorant. Plenty of people have looter games as their main games and enjoy them just fine.

I think calling Warframe a looter game a small stretch. Games like Diablo, Grim Dawn, Path of Exile, and other looter games have many mechanics (ex. endless, scaling dungeons) and layers of difficulty and points of access for different difficulties to stretch out the field of play by a massive amount. (Diablo 3 goes up to Torment 16 now apparently.) On top of this, the degree of customization per item looted and the arsenal size (i.e. total equipment slots) are exponentially greater than Warframe, and the items looted have a significant impact on what gear is available to players. Whereas in Warframe, the gear available to the player doesn't have any random stat rolls, and is also more limited in size and scope.

It is arguable that those games have so much more horizontal progression as compared to Warframe, but I find it indisputable that these games have much greater vertical progression than Warframe and easier access to different difficulties (it's 2019 and there is still no way to decide to start a Survival with enemies at level 100, 200, or any other arbitrary level).

 

1 hour ago, 844448 said:

No content? Try doing 6x eidolon solo with your new toys, as an endgame player that's not something hard for you right? Or it's just some empty claim from you?

I'll put some checklist of endgame players

1. Minimum of 6x tridolon in one night solo

2. 10 millions score of ESO solo

these two things wouldn't be so hard for you right? Even without using any nuke or meta equipments, you're the endgame player after all. Show me how it's done

Endgame player does not imply anything to do with nuke or meta equipments. If anything, endgame has predominantly functioned as playgrounds for optimization in other PvE games, for which there naturally evolves metagame strategies and loadouts/gear sets.

(1) This is speedrunning, in activity that does not appeal to all players. To my understanding, it is in fact fairly niche in terms of participants. One major problem with it is the timed lockout due to the Plains's day/night cycle.

(2) This is a pretty meaningless measure. Fun and engagement are qualitative and subjective and achieving this score achieves neither for many people; long stamina runs (which this would require) are yet another niche activity.

Neither of these are meaningful in the context of what makes a fun and replayable endgame.

 

---

 

I'm noticing a strong theme of "well I don't experience this so you must be wrong and therefore nothing should change." Disheartening.

Edited August 21, 2019 by Gwyndolin-chan

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

I don't think there's any real formula for the perfect game. It's just a journey, and if it isn't fun anymore that's ok.

 

I've been through the 5+ year vet thing multiple times. Everything you're saying is being said on forums across the internet.

Things change, life is a fluid, ever changing miasma of organized chaos, with series of events changing the smallest of outcomes. Just enjoy the ride.

[HugintheCrow]

6 minutes ago, Gwyndolin-chan said:

snip

You literally just repeated what i said, but in a pointlessly long format, why?

7 minutes ago, Gwyndolin-chan said:

Plenty of people have looter games as their main games and enjoy them just fine.

Yes. And that makes them dumb-dumbs.

[Zelmen]

Wrong section of forums?

[Jarriaga]

2 hours ago, 844448 said:

First, define endgame

In most games other than Warframe, there is a standardized definition of what an "Endgame" is, which refers to the activities that you should be focused on while in the later stages of the game after most of the base/main content has been experienced and the majority of the game's tools are at your disposal. Even the endgame in a chess game resolves around the same concept: The final stage of a chess game when few pieces are left on the board. Regardless of specific implementations, why can't WF follow this philosophy when defining what an Endgame is or should be?

By this logic, we can categorize Eidolon Hunting and Arbitrations and Kuva farming as Endgame modes because you are required to experience most of the game in order to event attempt these activities. Sure you can join a squad to do the Eidolon hunts before doing The War Within, but you can't hunt an Eidolon by yourself until you meet this quest requirement. Arbitrations are even more extreme since they require completing all missions nodes including the Ropalolyst boss fight, which in turn requires completing the Chimera Prologue and all the quest requirements to reach the Chimera Prologue. Kuva farming also meets this criteria since you can't join a siphon or flood mission on your own without completing TWW first, and Sortie missions as well. Those are actual Endgame modes by using the standardized definition.

The problem here (And the reason why people say there is no "actual" endgame content in WF) is that they are not satisfactory or sustainable. Why? Because they only offer extrinsic rewards that offer no further value in repeated acquisition once obtained (Other than plat trading, which is a worthless activity in case you buy your own plat and have no need to trade), which in turn diminishes replay value. Mogamu's recent video highlighting intrinsic vs. extrinsic rewards puts this into perspective, and Steve's comments in the last Devstream saying he is rethinking the reward structure going intrinsic for Nightwave season 3 and Scott's reactions to Steve's intentions by saying that the ship has sailed further amplifies this.

Quoting Steve himself: "Scott is looking at me like I'm high".

Which takes us to.....

 

2 hours ago, 844448 said:

Second, if you don't do something because you don't get rewards you can use, you might be in the "loot-whore" mentality because I'm still playing e prime exterminate on earth for no reason, try to explain that

...The fact Steve acknowledged that WF suffers from a lack of intrinsic rewards in which you don't need an actual item or cosmetic incentive to partake in an activity indicates they seem to be aware that sooner or later this becomes a problem for player retention. I'm happy for you that you are able to play on E Prime willingly. I only do so when I am requested to complete an extermination Lith mission, because it's not efficient to do otherwise. This is not Dark Souls. This is not Devil May Cry. This is not Bayonetta. Once you have farmed all weapons and mods you need and reach MR24+, your perspective of the game starts to slowly sour because your in-game progress and growth comes to a screeching halt in which nothing pushes you forward other than new content that is balanced around those players that don't happen to have your own broken builds or stockpiles of resources to build the new frame as soon as it drops.

WF suffers from a lack of intrinsic rewards by means of gameplay modes catered around those on the bleeding edge that have no need to farm anything else because they either have the plat to buy what they want right away, or have such strong builds that will get new weapons and frames soon after release only to discard them again because they have no further purpose beyond giving you something to try out. "Actual Content" in that context refers to gameplay, not items. It refers to game modes, not playable characters, and that's a void a new frame or a weapon can't fill. The end result? The game no longer feels sustainable. It feels stale. It feels like it was not designed to be played to such an extent, and slowly bleeds older players and veterans. iFlynn just announced he has resigned WF and will even quit the partner program because of this as he feels the game is no longer enjoyable. Mogamu is slowly moving out and even gave up on expecting an endgame mode for veterans. It's no coincidence that the most "active" current partners are relatively new to WF. This is the same chasm dividing veteran players and new players, with veterans always feeling sidelined because "new players bring in the money" with no middle ground. Why is this problem somehow unique to WF?

The fact here is that Steve acknowledged it, so even DE are starting to see how that is a problem (Even if you don't think it is) because this is not sustainable in the long run, which is what OP's poor choice of words meant to convey. This can be resolved by making content strictly squared around veterans. Content (Game modes, not weapons or frames) that makes you feel rewarded for having survived that. Content that makes you feel like you're the boss for participating. This would necessitate a harder difficulty, cheese control, rethinking how WF abilities scale in damage and range with mods, balancing the game mode and damage values to the point using both Ember or Saryn would result in a similar challenge... But it would then face community backlash from those who refuse to participate in harder content without an extrinsic reward.

2 hours ago, Ikyr0 said:

yeah pretty much sums up my position as well. new weapons are frames are not real content. they're just tools to do content with.

 

That's pretty much how I'm starting to feel about the game and why I'm constantly saying I feel very happy with Disruption and the Ropalolyst and Exploiter Orb fights: Because those were new combat game modes with specific mechanics.

Edited August 21, 2019 by Jarriaga

[Kylo.]

5 hours ago, (XB1)KILLA BIG MAC said:

After playing Warframe since 2014, I am done. I have never written a forum post before and this will be my only one. For the thousands of hours I've played warframe, I am finally giving up on DE to do the right thing. There is no sustainable content, and the vet community is completely forgotten.

> Warframe has no Longevity

 

What

[Letter13]

Sorry to hear you've decided to leave the game after five years. May you find enjoyment in whatever you pick up next.