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BLI7Z
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So, this isn't to bring up all the differences regarding personal preferences, but to point out some facts.

Players with controllers play in a different way than players with mouse and keyboard. These differences are totally inherent to both setups.

I think that Warframe shouldn't be considered from the perspective of a controller. No Shooter should be IMO. 

A mouse and keyboard give much more adaptability and reaction times. 

So please DE. Make sure to really, really, take this into consideration. Don't make things lower than what mouse and keyboard users expect. 

Thank you. 

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Yea PC is always gonna have an edge, but I couldn't ever use them as I'm too used to console. 

A warframe vet showed me how to properly configure my controller so I'm good to go now.

 

Could you possibly give some examples on how mouse and controller is better besides better access to exploitative programs? 

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5 minutes ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

Yea PC is always gonna have an edge, but I couldn't ever use them as I'm too used to console. 

A warframe vet showed me how to properly configure my controller so I'm good to go now.

 

Could you possibly give some examples on how mouse and controller is better besides better access to exploitative programs? 

It is much more precise, in every way. Even if someone is really used to use a controller in a Shooter, there's no point of comparing it with a mouse. That's why competitive FPS always use mouse. I know Warframe isn't a competitive FPS... it's more like a casual oriented shooter with fashion as endgame. 

Edited by BLI7Z
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Personally i have always preferred having a controler in my hands over key and mouse.

I'm not super hardcore nor would i say I'm super casual.

The game is more a third person shooter/hack and slash.  With parkour.

I tend to loathe fps games and if I  do play them.  I am constantly saying "if this was a third person game".

Even if i played warframe on my pc i would be using a controler.

Mouse and key for mmorpgs and rts games please.

Hell i would use a controler for skyrim on my pc to if it didn't make me loose my camera scroll that a mouse gives.

But to each their own.

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19 minutes ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

Yea PC is always gonna have an edge, but I couldn't ever use them as I'm too used to console. 

A warframe vet showed me how to properly configure my controller so I'm good to go now.

 

Could you possibly give some examples on how mouse and controller is better besides better access to exploitative programs? 

Other than the Precision you have much more buttons to attach actions to. 

I mapped the weapon swap to my mouse5 button if I remember correctly so I can switch without taking my fingers of off the direction buttons. 

The mouse wheel is also usable for fast firing weapons like the Mara Detron. You have quite the freedom with pc.

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43 minutes ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

Yea PC is always gonna have an edge, but I couldn't ever use them as I'm too used to console. 

A warframe vet showed me how to properly configure my controller so I'm good to go now.

 

Could you possibly give some examples on how mouse and controller is better besides better access to exploitative programs? 

Other than the precision and faster movement, it's the free movement.A controller ties your left hand to 3 buttons(2 triggers and the cross/joystick) and your right hand to 4(also with the triggers).

On keyboard and mouse my left hand can press at least 5 buttons at a time and do 5 different things while on controller you need both hands to do the same and most of the times you need to release another button.

Now with the mouse i got an option of 5 actions also (LMB MB-MW RMB and the mouse itself for rotation)plus if we count that every new mouse has additional buttons ,we have at least 3 more buttons that we can press without stopping any movement/action of what we are already doing.Also a mouse gives you the ability to control rotation speed/targeting as slow/fast as you want and that without taking into account the extra buttons that can increase/decrease certain traits at any given moment.

Edited by DeathDweller
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This is why consoles (and usually games with controller support) have aim assist. Though as I've never played WF on console I don't know if it actually has such a feature or not.

But regardless it's not like they could really take away how the game already rewards precision and reaction. So long as rolling still has damage resist and head shots still deal bonus (crit)damage the benefits of M+KB will remain.

Although at the same time none of that really matters with the amount of survivability stacking, nuke abilities, and meta aoe weapons we have. Kinda detracts from the benefits accuracy and reaction speed have.

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52 minutes ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

Yea PC is always gonna have an edge, but I couldn't ever use them as I'm too used to console. 

A warframe vet showed me how to properly configure my controller so I'm good to go now.

 

Could you possibly give some examples on how mouse and controller is better besides better access to exploitative programs? 

Precision of input. With proper wrist control and the right DPI+sens settings on your mouse, you can get both the ability to whip around 180 degrees with a small flick and near-pixel perfect fine movement. There's a reason that all console shooters have copious amounts of aim assist: gamepads suck donkey dong for anything that requires precision. Keyboard movement also gives you better directional control outside of tertiary diagonal angle movement.

 

There's also the much larger pool of potential hotkeys, both in terms of having a hotkey for everything and in terms of having them laid out in a pattern that's comfortable to use.

Edited by FlyingDice
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43 minutes ago, trst said:

This is why consoles (and usually games with controller support) have aim assist.

I used to play BF3 for at least 20 hours a week on console and I find that turning aim assist off makes you more accurate.  If you go for the head you also know exactly how far you need to move the stick rather than having it a variable due to the aim assist 'attach range'.  Plus some games will 'assist' you by making you deal body-shots when you were going for a head-shot.  Unless you have a physical/mental condition (meaning that practically, not as an insult) then aim assist will make you a worse player overall.

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it's not what you've got, it's how you use it. sure, there IS a gap between mouse & Keyboard vs. controller, but unless we're talking twitch shooters like CoD, reaction speed doesn't really matter to that kind of degree. recently I've been playing the old DOOM games; arguably the very games that invented fast-paced shooting and speedrunning (Wolfenstein was a bit more tactical, but practice could make you a lot faster), and I wouldn't say I'm slow (definitely not when I'm on 3% health and low ammo), but some of the speeds PC players reach is disorienting. with practice however, you can reach a point where you might not be the fastest in the west, but you're fast enough to survive, and that's what counts.

besides, with our abilities in Warframe, you don't really need insane reactions: why be faster when you can just slow the enemies down or stop them moving entirely instead?

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11 minutes ago, (NSW)Sk0rp1on said:

Except Analog controls on movement. If I ever get a new PC for gaming I’m also getting one of those small gaming keyboards with an analog stick.

Completely agree.

I could never understand how PC players can say with a straight face that using BUTTONS for movement is superior to other options.

The only people that should be dead set on using analog movement, are the ones that have been gaming like that their entire lives.

Otherwise, its an archaic way of movement, that has a very high learning curve with virtually no upside in comparison to a stick.

Honestly, i find it ridiculous the lengths that people will go through to try and make it sound superior. They just completely ignore the fact that Keyboards were originally only used because they were forced to lol.

 

Edited by (PS4)SpIitSnake
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10 minutes ago, (PS4)SpIitSnake said:

Completely agree.

I could never understand how PC players can say with a straight face that using BUTTONS for movement is superior to other options.

Its just ridiculous lol.

Because you use both mouse and buttons, those combined make it a lot more precise and fluid then controller. 

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10 minutes ago, (PS4)SpIitSnake said:

Completely agree.

I could never understand how PC players can say with a straight face that using BUTTONS for movement is superior to other options.

Its just ridiculous lol.

While limited to 9 directions, you can go left to right in just as much time as it takes to go from neutral to left. It's a trade up of quicker transitions for limited direction which you can make up for with faster snappier rotation with the mouse. If you wanted to achieve the same transition speed with an analog stick, you'd have to be clacking it pretty loudly.

The only primary benefit of analog controls is smooth fine control such as rotating your camera to walk perfect circles at a certain speed.

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Just now, kuciol said:

Because you use both mouse and buttons, those combined make it a lot more precise and fluid then controller. 

No i understand that.

Sure the combination of M/K is better, but its not so much because the Keyboard is good, rather because the mouse is so far and away better than using sticks,.

All i have issue with, is most PC players pretending like its the only option. Whats even worse is that they will suggest new converts to PC to force thenselves to use such an archaic input device for movement.

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2 minutes ago, kuciol said:

Because you use both mouse and buttons, those combined make it a lot more precise and fluid then controller. 

What he/she said.

A console controller is terrible for all the things. The combined use of keyboard and mouse is far more fluent and especially much faster. The example people already have given is the gear wheel. I don't use this AT ALL, except for equipping things there, but all slots can be bound to your keyboard (also yay for extra macro keys on keyboard), so you can switch directly on the move, instead of having to open the wheel, "scroll" down and select the item.

All directions are also far more precise with a mouse given their DPI surface detection technology today.

I grew up with a consoles too, but today it's just an obsolete machine that's just a minor fun to play beat'em'up games on. RTS, FPS etc. are all far superior in terms of reaction.
Cost initially is only a benefit on consoles, but if you can afford to get a middleranged PC, it's better as upgrades can be done directly to a PC if you're capable or know a friend, and the current generation has a lot of power allowing a PC to live for long. PC are also less restricted in terms of games vs. consoles being restricted to their own "brand".

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)SpIitSnake said:

No i understand that.

Sure the combination of M/K is better, but its not so much because the Keyboard is good, rather because the mouse is so far and away better than using sticks,.

All i have issue with, is most PC players pretending like its the only option. Whats even worse is that they will suggest new converts to PC to force thenselves to use such an archaic input device for movement.

Archaic or not , the sheer number of buttons make it superior in every way. Keyboard is also a lot more versatile. Just try using chat with controller or search function. 

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1 hour ago, (PS4)SpIitSnake said:

Completely agree.

I could never understand how PC players can say with a straight face that using BUTTONS for movement is superior to other options.

The only people that should be dead set on using analog movement, are the ones that have been gaming like that their entire lives.

Otherwise, its an archaic way of movement, that has a very high learning curve with virtually no upside in comparison to a stick.

Honestly, i find it ridiculous the lengths that people will go through to try and make it sound superior. They just completely ignore the fact that Keyboards were originally only used because they were forced to lol.

 

You really don't understand how a mouse works do you?

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I won't debate on what is better or not. I'll just go ahead and say it's a matter of preference above all, and that Warframe is not a competitive game where you need to have absolute precision and control over anything. It's good, but hardly an absolute need since we're just fighting AI.

Warframe is still, however, a rather inclusive and very broadly-themed game. Since it relies so much on good PR and constant development in order to attract new players and their wallets DE must cater to as much people as they can. This includes a lot of market segmentation; from preferred console, to inputs of choice, to types of gamer, etc. So in the greater picture controllers are still important and development should still have them in mind.

I doubt DE would risk losing entire platforms by focusing only on M&Kb while controllers become a true mess in regards to how they handle the game. Because a player that cannot play is not a player at all, but just someone losing their time for some minutes before giving up on account of bad and confusing controls. So I doubt they can just focus on M&Kb on grounds of quality alone, developing everything around them and not thinking about how controllers will handle the same actions in a fluid way.

I will say, however, that DE still has a lot of wasted wiggle room in controllers (PS4, at least) that they could still use for mapping. I mean, so many times I try different button presses, "holds" and combinations that do absolutely nothing, when they could have several QoL stuff to them. Controllers are more than just the amount of buttons; there's also combinations and pressing times tinker with, which allows for far greater customization. Sadly all that still doesn't save it from the lack of precision. 

Edited by (PS4)Hikuro-93
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1 minute ago, (PS4)SpIitSnake said:

That entire post you quoted, i was specifically talking about only the Keyboard being inferior.

Ive already made it clear that a mouse is far superior to using sticks.

Yeah but you miss the fact that 90% of the movement is done from the mouse, we use only 1 button on the keyboard for the movement input.

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6 minutes ago, (PS4)SpIitSnake said:

That entire post you quoted, i was specifically talking about only the Keyboard being inferior.

Ive already made it clear that a mouse is far superior to using sticks.

But:

1. Its superrior 

2. You use it in conjunction with mouse so you cant separate those

Edited by kuciol
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10 minutes ago, kuciol said:

But:

1. Its superrior 

2. You use it in conjunction with mouse so you cant separate those

But...you can? I know, because I and many others use a mouse without a conventional full sized keyboard.

Just in cased you missed it, heres someone else in the thread that knows what im referring to.

Once again, stop pretending like its the only option. Its not.

2 hours ago, (NSW)Sk0rp1on said:

Except Analog controls on movement. If I ever get a new PC for gaming I’m also getting one of those small gaming keyboards with an analog stick.

This^

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Just now, (PS4)SpIitSnake said:

But...you can? I know, because I and many others use a mouse without a conventional full sized keyboard.

Just in cased you missed it, heres someone else in the thread that knows what im referring to.

Once again, stop pretending like its the only option. Its not.

This^

Ive never said its the only option. We are talking m/k vs controller here. I dont care for other options. You can even use touchpad if you want.

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I have owned and played countless games on many different consoles since NFC. I think it’s more of a personal preference. For shooting and RTS games, I prefer keyboard/mouse a bit more. For racing and everything else, I prefer to  use only controller. 

Edited by George_PPS
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