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So, Is The Glaive Ment To Ignore Invisibility Buffs?


Triburos
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I realize I'm updates late upon asking this but, well I tried asking Google but couldn't get a direct answer that wasn't just telling me what I already knew ("Glaive doesn't benefit from Invisibility"). And if I was too specific, well it'd lead me off of the question I needed answering.

So just to get a clear, straight answer; is Glaive glitched? Or is it just really ment to ignore the melee buff that Ash and Loki get from their Invisibility skills?

Because if it's intended, the Glaive just lost alot of it's appeal to me as a Loki player, even with all the mods it got recently. It's still viable with those mods finally, but I just hope it's a long-running glitch that hasn't been fixed yet :(.

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Just checked on my loki with this glaive mods:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-DfceSyZg-5w/UkD3pwRxQOI/AAAAAAAAAw0/TaDz9qOokso/w958-h766-no/Warframe0019.bmp
on lvl 20 corpus crewman:
normal melee hit: 17 dmg
charge hit: 375 dmg
normal melee hit (cloaked): 27 dmg
charge hit (cloaked): 375 dmg

Conclusion:
regular melee hits recieve invisibility bonus and deal "crit" (yellow) dmg, on normal hits
charged attacks are not calculated as "melee" so they are "white" dmg hits, and dont recieve bonus damage

glaive has crap melee dmg, but while invisible still remains silent, and Dont agro other enemies, or even damaged enemy that survived first strike. Still can be used as stealth run weapon but with reduced useability imo

Edited by Grosswick
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Well, yeah I knew those things. But cheers for the info anyways.

But thrown or not, Glaive should still count as a melee weapon. I mean, the thrown Glaive already follows some rules for most melee weapons, like charged attacks ignoring armor and such.

It's a shame because it recently got all these nice mods, but as a Loki player, I can't see myself using it exclusively like I'd love to. It's a truely unique weapon next to the Kestrel and even more-so with the new mods. But the lack of an invisibility damage bonus kills it for me.

I really hope it's just a bug or something.

Edited by Triburos
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But thrown or not, Glaive should still count as a melee weapon. I mean, the thrown Glaive already follows some rules for most melee weapons, like charged attacks ignoring armor and such.

That's not really a rule; there are some melee weapons that deal non-armor ignoring damage types on their charge attacks (Prova, Kogake, Kestrel and Ether Dagger).

 

Anyway, from what I can see, this is intended as the game doesn't treat the throwing of a Glaive/Kestrel as a charge attack, but rather as a projectile (like guns). See the old datamined stats here. As you can see, all melee attacks have stealth damage multipliers (this is where the bonus damage from Invisibility/Smokescreen comes from). However, Projectile #1 Damage on Kestrel/Glaive do not have stealth damage (nor do any guns).

Edited by CitizenV
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Now that, is a shame.

 

I still standby that it's viable, but I can't bring myself to use it if it's just going to ignore my only skill that gives a boost to my damage :[

 

Anyways, yeah I know not all melee weapons have that armor ignore, but I was just pointing out that the Glaive shared the property with other melee weapons.

 

Still think it should count Invisibility though. If the normal attacks are counting it, I see no reason why the thrown attack shouldn't.

 

But cheers for the sad, sad info.

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Lmao. Yeah and see- that's what's I don't get.

Contagion affects melee attacks. Still works on thrown weapons. Invisibility affects melee attacks, doesn't work with thrown weapons.

I'm not entirely sure if Invisibility is just a 100% crit that makes up it's damage buff, but I don't think so. I didn't do the research myself, but the wiki says:

"While invisible your melee attacks deal 150% damage with normal attacks and 200% damage with charged attacks (yellow numbers). Critical strikes also receive this bonus (red numbers)."

Criticals in Invisibility are red numbers. Well, the melee crits anyways. The yellow numbers in invisibility seem to be entirely different from the critical hits from outside of the state when it comes to melee. So if that's the case, why doesn't the thrown weapons get the bonus?

I don't buy that they count it as a 'bullet' when Contagion works for it. So frusterating man :P. As I said, I'd love to use the Glaive as a main melee weapon But it's just a deal breaker if it's ignoring my only form of damage buff in the form of Invisibility :[.

Edited by Triburos
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I'm not entirely sure if Invisibility is just a 100% crit that makes up it's damage buff, but I don't think so. I didn't do the research myself, but the wiki says:

[...]

Criticals in Invisibility are red numbers. Well, the melee crits anyways. The yellow numbers in invisibility seem to be entirely different from the critical hits from outside of the state when it comes to melee. So if that's the case, why doesn't the thrown weapons get the bonus?

 

I sort of explained that above <_<.

 

Invisibility/Smokescreen and attacks on unalerted enemies grant melee weapons stealth damage (nothing to do with criticals, they just use the same color damage pop-up). If you look at the datamined table above, all melee weapon attacks have different stealth damage multipliers: normal attacks have 150%, heavy attacks (charge) have 200% and jump/slide/wall attacks have 100% (no bonus).

 

The problem is that Glaive's thrown attack is not considered a heavy attack (charge), but is mechanically calculated as Projectile #1 Damage, which has no stealth damage attribute. Contagion could work on it just depending on how the mechanics of it actually work.

Edited by CitizenV
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Well yeah, I did read what you posted before. Which again, thanks for the info.

But if I am missing something, I do apologize. I am reading what you post, but maybe I'm not soaking it all in just yet. But here's what I understand from what you're saying.

The Glaive normal attacks are pretty much the same mechanic wise as most other melee weapons. But it's charged attack doesn't actually count as a charged 'melee' attack. In this case, the fact it ignores armor when thrown was probably just tacked onto it's mechanics rather than copy and pasted from other melee weapons as a 'base'. Since it doesn't count as a charged melee strike, and instead as a projectile; it doesn't gain the Invisibility or Smoke Screen buffs since they only affect the charge melee mechanic.

Am I correct so far? If so; why would Contagion effect the thrown glaive if it doesn't technically count as a melee weapon while it's flying around?

Unless I'm missing something. I don't really know much about Sayrn's mechanics, but I'm just curious. Because the table says that other ranged weapons such as the bows also use Projectile #1. If this is the case and Contagion did work on the Glaive's thrown attack, then you'd think Contagion would work on arrows, bolts, throwing knives, what have you. But this is assuming those weapons that use those types of ammo would be in your melee slot to begin with so Contagion would affect them in the first place. But still.

Because I'm picturing in my mind this; the Glaive is acting like a normal melee weapon when in your hand. But as soon as it's sent out, the game strips you of your melee usage, and the Glaive turns into a projectile for a moment before coming back and returning your melee ability.

But again, sorry if I'm seeming dense :/

Edited by Triburos
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You're not asking a game mechanic question (how), you're ultimately asking a developer question (why).

 

Q: Why doesn't the glaive charge attack work with invisibility?

A: Because thats how its coded.

 

Q: Why is it coded in such a way?

A: I'm not a dev, so I don't know.

 

Us fellow Tenno can tell you about how the game works, but we can't explain why without mentioning the devs somewhere. They're the ones responsible, for good or ill. You should probably ask one of them.

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