Veterans misunderstand why they don't enjoy playing the game anymore

[844448]

11 minutes ago, Kimimoto said:

Hexenon was a new resource, Jovian Concord lasted a few days.

Same with both open worlds, but the open worlds had the rep grind which is time gated. They still only lasted for about 2-3 weeks after taking a year to release. Those ain't good results. 

Void Fissures have good results, I believe the new Disruption modes will also have good results on player retention. 

If I want to argue, we as veterans that are more than ready can deal with those amalgams and whatever thrown that day and DE was pretty tame, or outright spoil us on putting the grind (300 or so when we get around 10 from an enemy) so it's not that hard to get compared to getting thousands on other games and chance to fail at crafting

Try making those amalgams able to tank hundreds of rivened opticor blasts, it would become a technical "progression reset" for veterans but I'm not taking that route

[Tsardova]

9 hours ago, (PS4)InkCN said:

 

---Phase 5: The solution

STOP !! Stop playing Warframe (at least for some amount of time). Playing a game countless of hours every day isn't sustainable unless unlimited amount of content (spoiler: it's impossible). And by how DE are extremely ambitious, you can only expect the updates to be bigger and bigger but also more and more scarce in time. Updates will never be more than a temporary bandage to your problem.

Therefore either learn how to manage yourself or go discover another game and get your gaming dose there.

It's perfectly normal to lose interest in something you liked, but don't blame the game for it (or yourself for that matter). No one is in the wrong here.

-----

..... That's not a solution there mate... That's feigning ignorance.

 

The two concepts aren't the same, yet the more we turn a blind eye to an issue (in this scenario being lack of proper engaging longevity) then we'll only face the same dang issue again within months if not weeks.

 

If anything you're exacerbating the issue by saying that Warframe lacks substance so we have to look for alternatives when your proposal is that vets are forgetting something that hooks them TO Warframe. Ergo your "solution" is more of the core problem that needs fixing than what you imply it to be. Fact of the matter is, people like me who've stuck with the game for years HAVE been doing exactly that, spending time on other games more than WF as time pass by since the latter doesn't entice some of us all that much anymore with so many glaring issues that have persisted for more than half of the game's lifetime. Yet here we are still with the same issue still slapping us with reality that what we've been doing as an excuse to let DE learn and improve only made them lenient and complacent on how to approach things.

 

Bottom line? No... Telling others to stop playing WF is NOT a solution, it's ignorance. Those who use this tired argument are only showing that they're out of argument for WF/ DE's case.

 

[Lost_Cartographer]

The problem with most players in gaming today is they play for that dopamine fix.  Log in, "work" towards a prize, stop playing once they have all the prizes because what's the point of logging in if there are no prizes, right?

No one knows how to make their own fun.  Too many people META the crap out of everything then complain it's too easy, when META by its very nature is designed to make the experience as easy as possible and no good developer balances around a player established META as it can shift with a single content update.

OP has it partly right - it's a player psychology issue.  Taking a break is only a stop gap solution.  The real solution is largely on the individual player's shoulders.  Sure, DE can introduce raids, difficulty sliders that go all the way to level 1000, and drop bigger rewards, but ultimately people will cheese away any difficulty to render the challenge moot and they'll eventually get all the rewards worth getting.  If players REFUSE to accept that the modding system is there to customize weapons to a flavor instead of taking and modding for the most powerful equipment - then yeah... they're going to get bored.  The game might not feature several difficulty options ranging from "I'm too young to die!" to "Ultra-Violence/Nightmare," but these can largely be achieved... if the player wants to pull their head out of their own ass and actually try to challenge themselves.

The only reason I take a break from Warframe is because I find greater interest in another game in the moment, but I inevitably return to Warframe, every time.  I don't pity endgame players that are "bored."   Learn to play.  It's a more enjoyable experience than playing to win.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Lost_Cartographer

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

No, no, no, no! OP, we want new and meaningful content! Content that keeps us very busy for a long time even though DE is limited in their time and resources.

But Clem forbid DE makes us have to work for it! God forbid if they try to balance nerf things we have.

So in short we want a clean pool while we pee on it!

For anyone without humor, regarding the above statement -> /s

---

On a more serious note, I'd seriously just do a great wipe on all the powercreep we have in the game - "The Great Nerfing Purge", and give a limit to our power in all frames, weapons, etc. I'd also convert most of our resources to behave more like Argon Crystals and other such strategies against stockpiling. No more stockpiling and bypassing effort just to complain later that there's nothing to do. While at it I'd correct the resource grind required for some things (I.e. Hema), and make it much more viable since stockpiling is no longer an option. I'd also correct any and all enemy confrontation to reflect the mentioned "powercreep limitation" and bring about some measure of challenge.

I can already hear the screams, the god-level amount of toxicity, salt, rage-broken consoles and pc's over this. Full mail boxes of death threats suddenly arrive in London, Ontario. Petitions everywhere. Absolute chaos on the Origin System among the Tenno! But it'd pass and the game would be better for it in the long run. At least imo.

For reference, I do love being an overpowered genocidal demi-god. Even if I wouldn't really mind the change above for the greater good and for the sake of just picking a side for DE to focus on.

Edited August 23, 2019 by (PS4)Hikuro-93

[844448]

18 minutes ago, (PS4)Hikuro-93 said:

No, no, no, no! OP, we want new and meaningful content! Content that keeps us very busy for a long time even though DE is limited in their time and resources.

But Clem forbid DE makes us have to work for it! God forbid if they try to balance nerf things we have.

So in short we want a clean pool while we pee on it!

For anyone without humor, regarding the above statement -> /s

---

On a more serious note, I'd seriously just do a great wipe on all the powercreep we have in the game - "The Great Nerfing Purge", and give a limit to our power in all frames, weapons, etc. I'd also convert most of our resources to behave more like Argon Crystals and other such strategies against stockpiling. No more stockpiling and bypassing effort just to complain later that there's nothing to do. While at it I'd correct the resource grind required for some things (I.e. Hema), and make it much more viable since stockpiling is no longer an option. I'd also correct any and all enemy confrontation to reflect the mentioned "powercreep limitation" and bring about some measure of challenge.

I can already hear the screams, the god-level amount of toxicity, salt, rage-broken consoles and pc's over this. Full mail boxes of death threats suddenly arrive in London, Ontario. Petitions everywhere. Absolute chaos on the Origin System among the Tenno! But it'd pass and the game would be better for it in the long run. At least imo.

For reference, I do love being overpowered. Even if I wouldn't really mind the change above for the greater good and for the sake of just picking a side for DE to focus on.

About that stockpiling, I would be salty if my resources one day decay over time just to solve the stockpiling problem because I like seeing a mountain of resources in my warehouse, even when there's nothing to use it on

[Urlan]

41 minutes ago, Lost_Cartographer said:

The problem with most players in gaming today is they play for that dopamine fix.  Log in, "work" towards a prize, stop playing once they have all the prizes because what's the point of logging in if there are no prizes, right?

No one knows how to make their own fun.  Too many people META the crap out of everything then complain it's too easy, when META by its very nature is designed to make the experience as easy as possible and no good developer balances around a player established META as it can shift with a single content update.

OP has it partly right - it's a player psychology issue.  Taking a break is only a stop gap solution.  The real solution is largely on the individual player's shoulders.  Sure, DE can introduce raids, difficulty sliders that go all the way to level 1000, and drop bigger rewards, but ultimately people will cheese away any difficulty to render the challenge moot and they'll eventually get all the rewards worth getting.  If players REFUSE to accept that the modding system is there to customize weapons to a flavor instead of taking and modding for the most powerful equipment - then yeah... they're going to get bored.  The game might not feature several difficulty options ranging from "I'm too young to die!" to "Ultra-Violence/Nightmare," but these can largely be achieved... if the player wants to pull their head out of their own ass and actually try to challenge themselves.

The only reason I take a break from Warframe is because I find greater interest in another game in the moment, but I inevitably return to Warframe, every time.  I don't pity endgame players that are "bored."   Learn to play.  It's a more enjoyable experience than playing to win.

Developers create metas not players, we identify them and many objectives in such games are developed with such developer made situations in mind - tac alerts  come to mind - but ultimately that isn't a real issue in the game. Every game has something the developer pushes you to use, and its the player's goal often to find the method the developers want you to use or see if they can do it themselves without it; nothing new there or inherently bad.

The opening post misses that the "Veteran" already has used all of the systems available in the game, or gathered the loot, and played each mode. They do not forget modding, they don't forget their gear, in fact; if they did it would make your point about Metagames somewhat misaligned logically as there would non-such with that line of thinking without understanding the mods and their usages. The modding is the progression system of the game, something that acts as the main method of what in an RPG would be your stats from levels and 'modifications' to the low bases of our warfarmes, companions, and weapons. They understand this, and they use it, and often this is why some folk might misunderstand what a meta is. 

I get the feeling that players saying "Learn to Play" when their entire post is about complaining about folk that do know how to play smack of misunderstanding the point of the subject.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

12 minutes ago, 844448 said:

About that stockpiling, I would be salty if my resources one day decay over time just to solve the stockpiling problem because I like seeing a mountain of resources in my warehouse, even when there's nothing to use it on

Lazy as I am, I must agree. I personally have no issues with the game as is, being powerful and sitting atop a mountain of resources. All that rant is mostly to point out that "for some things we complain about, maybe we should also look to ourselves and how much we really want change to happen". At least for all who complain about having nothing to do.

I usually create my own tasks, and when I run out of ideas I just drop Warframe for a while until new stuff arrives. Currently figuring out No Man's Sky's newest update - Beyond - while I wait for more content for WF.

Of course there's about 0% chance something like the "Great Nerfing Purge" would happen, thankfully. It'd be too great a hit on the game, and even I doubt DE would survive all the backlash from such an extreme measure. 😗

Edited August 23, 2019 by (PS4)Hikuro-93

[KIREEK]

As a veteran i actually don't feel like other veterans, mainly because i play warframe to have fun, i repeat missions i have done countless times because i find them fun and the squads i get in fun (obviously bad apples exist, but the majority is fine), i don't play warframe to grind, that is obvious by looking at my MR, it was 9, then it went to 12 and now 16, considering the 1st few MR25 players appear at 1000 completed missions (players are usually in the MR10-13 at this point) and i have 40x more than that and i am still at MR16, you can kinda see where my time is used.

I don't realy mind players quiting and complaining about the lack of endgame, but i am sure that if i trow a few basic missions at those so called "veterans", most would colapse regarding something in the game, being a veteran means something, it's not to be used as a meme, you may call yourselves veterans, but considering the things i see on a daily basis, i feel ashamed that i am playing with players like that.

Asking for endgame content when i know even newbie level content isn't dominated feels cringy, how many times have i seen veterans asking for builds or questioning if a riven mod is good or bad, how many times have i seen veterans that don't defend terminals or still use the front door on rescues, all of them, even those on venus, Veterans who play sorties, but need a taxi for kuva fortress missions, you know things that are not supposed to happen, but they do.

Endgame?, some of you are completely crazy. Captain vor assassination would be more suitable for some of you.

Edited August 26, 2019 by KIREEK

[Chicken-Biryani]

9 hours ago, (PS4)Elvenbane said:

So far I've only heard about a 24 hour umbrafying reward for frames; I do hope there's something less operator focused too. I'm happy there will be new disruption locations since it's a fun mode, but my operator is strictly a battery and healer...

Lol talk about high end disappointment. If they come up with that and relics and mods thrown in the mix with a couple capturas and ephemeras. I for sure will lose all my hope in them.

[Chicken-Biryani]

2 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

Endgame?, some of you are completely crazy. Captain vor assassination would be more suitable for some of you.

Says who! Lol, u sound salty af. And all your statements about newbie content thrashing our arse is a load of bovine fecal matter that you just pulled outta thin air. 

[Bloop]

23 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

MR16, you can kinda see where my time is used.

Your time is used not progressing, basically. But I don't see why this part of your point is remotely relevant, you do you with your time.

You're also talking of supposed "veterans", who are actually just people that powerleveled the entire game in the span of three to four months, when that's just a newbie with a big number.

25 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

how many times have i seen veterans asking for builds or questioning if a riven mod is good or bad

And you're confirming it here.

25 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

Endgame?, some of you are completely crazy. Captain vor assassination would be more suitable for some of you.

What's wrong with wanting some content that actually incentivizes you to keep going? Not everyone is a kuva (or rather, gambling) addict to create content out of nowhere, like some players manage to do so they can burn their free time. Anything wrong with wanting raids, dungeon-like content, scaling rewards so endurance runners are pleased in the meantime? Better rewards? Something that says "hey, here you have, you spent time playing this mode and we're giving you this special item".

Echoes of the umbra was mentioned yesterday, kinda as a way to push this idea, but the fact is: It's going to fail. I appreciate their attempt, but a 24 hour mechanic that works off a flawed AI and needs to be farmed and crafted? People will get tired of it very soon.

In either case, your whole post didn't really say anything valuable, it was just bashing supposed "veterans", which in reality you've just labelled people that rushed content and didn't learn how to actually play, I teach mechanics, I know lots of those.

You want to stay in your mastery rank 16? Go ahead, don't progress, don't try all the weapons, that's on you, but certainly don't come here saying "hurr durr high MR are veterans and they are bad", for (even if hypocrite of me for saying this) I could say you're just like them as you have less than 20 tridolons done, which is fine, you see no incentive in doing them (and that's exactly the problem).

[Cubewano]

I mean my dissatisfaction curbs from those times I join a mission and wind up doing nothing for most of the mission, or barely anything, because a single person is able to completely invalidate missions these days and clean entire maps instantly, leaving me with the bare minimum of interaction to participate in. Not sure that was on your list. 

Fact is, the balance in this game is an absolute travesty and as you progress through the game you effectively scale back how much fun the actual gameplay is in exchange for what is ultimately trivial power that winds up without use, leaving collecting rewards as the only thing in the game to do since active engagement is completely shot. It's no wonder this game starts to feel boring and unsatisfying when the more you progress the less engaging everything becomes, I spend more time watching youtube while in missions these days than I do actively playing because that's what power progression gets you in this game presently, a disengaging experience where things become so easy that you need distractions to keep you awake during play. 

[JackHargreav]

I hope one of the big updates will bring us content we can't just rush through. 

[844448]

4 minutes ago, Bloop said:

Your time is used not progressing, basically. But I don't see why this part of your point is remotely relevant, you do you with your time.

You're also talking of supposed "veterans", who are actually just people that powerleveled the entire game in the span of three to four months, when that's just a newbie with a big number.

And you're confirming it here.

What's wrong with wanting some content that actually incentivizes you to keep going? Not everyone is a kuva (or rather, gambling) addict to create content out of nowhere, like some players manage to do so they can burn their free time. Anything wrong with wanting raids, dungeon-like content, scaling rewards so endurance runners are pleased in the meantime? Better rewards? Something that says "hey, here you have, you spent time playing this mode and we're giving you this special item".

Echoes of the umbra was mentioned yesterday, kinda as a way to push this idea, but the fact is: It's going to fail. I appreciate their attempt, but a 24 hour mechanic that works off a flawed AI and needs to be farmed and crafted? People will get tired of it very soon.

In either case, your whole post didn't really say anything valuable, it was just bashing supposed "veterans", which in reality you've just labelled people that rushed content and didn't learn how to actually play, I teach mechanics, I know lots of those.

You want to stay in your mastery rank 16? Go ahead, don't progress, don't try all the weapons, that's on you, but certainly don't come here saying "hurr durr high MR are veterans and they are bad", for (even if hypocrite of me for saying this) I could say you're just like them as you have less than 20 tridolons done, which is fine, you see no incentive in doing them (and that's exactly the problem).

Well, how many "veterans" that ask for endgame? Because we got terra corpus nerfed from people crying and you know? They're high MR or "veterans"  so KIREEK is kinda right here, since I see no problem with terra corpus before the nerf

[844448]

5 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

I hope one of the big updates will bring us content we can't just rush through. 

That would mean a whole new system of grind from materials to cost in making something

[Bloop]

2 minutes ago, 844448 said:

Well, how many "veterans" that ask for endgame? Because we got terra corpus nerfed from people crying and you know? They're high MR or "veterans"  so KIREEK is kinda right here, since I see no problem with terra corpus before the nerf

I didn't see it either, but it was certainly not just newbies with high mastery ranks, also low MR ones. I could also go on and on and point out the constant nightwave challenge nerfs (no, 1 hour wasn't a hard challenge, it was just time consuming).

They nerfed the terra corpus, as well as many other things, to make them newbie friendly, to give them a soft bed they can lay on, instead of incentivize them to get even better.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Bloop

[IceColdHawk]

1 minute ago, 844448 said:

Well, how many "veterans" that ask for endgame? Because we got terra corpus nerfed from people crying and you know? They're high MR or "veterans"  so KIREEK is kinda right here, since I see no problem with terra corpus before the nerf

Orb Vallis is a place accessible to newer players too. The reason they had to be toned down was to not overwhelm and scare new players away. Orb Vallis was never meant to be an "endgame" place.

[844448]

1 minute ago, Bloop said:

I didn't see it either, but it was certainly not just newbies with high mastery ranks, also low MR ones. I could also go on and on and point out the constant nightwave challenge nerfs (no, 1 hour wasn't a hard challenge, it was just time consuming).

They nerfed the terra corpus, as well as many other things, to make them newbie friendly, to give them a soft bed they can lay on, instead of incentivize them to get even better.

Honestly, at low level terra corpus are very friendly, I never die during vox solaris quest when using a squishy frame and no arcane. Their power scale steeper compared to the rest so you can't rely on inaros with 5k hp on higher level, at low level they're no different than your normal corpus

[844448]

4 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

Orb Vallis is a place accessible to newer players too. The reason they had to be toned down was to not overwhelm and scare new players away. Orb Vallis was never meant to be an "endgame" place.

Read my comment above

[JackHargreav]

2 minutes ago, 844448 said:

That would mean a whole new system of grind from materials to cost in making something

I wouldn't have problems with that.

As I imagine Railjack ships we could build right at the start with minimal grind but everything else for the ships would need new materials.

But Duviri Paradox also has a chance to bring in a system for our operators that we have to spend time on to progress.

[844448]

Just now, JackHargreav said:

I wouldn't have problems with that.

As I imagine Railjack ships we could build right at the start with minimal grind but everything else for the ships would need new materials.

But Duviri Paradox also has a chance to bring in a system for our operators that we have to spend time on to progress.

Inb4 "ThErE's ToO mUcH gRiNd" thread all over the forum like vomvalyst cores not being rewarding enough for giving 25 standing before the increase

(That's how you make that weird sentence right?)

[JackHargreav]

1 minute ago, 844448 said:

Inb4 "ThErE's ToO mUcH gRiNd" thread all over the forum like vomvalyst cores not being rewarding enough for giving 25 standing before the increase

(That's how you make that weird sentence right?)

I mean those kind of complaints never gonna stop. Some ppl will complain even when there is nothing to complain about.

Railjack will probably bring in some ppl who will complain that now they have to invest into a completely new system and they can't be OP or something like that.

[844448]

Just now, JackHargreav said:

I mean those kind of complaints never gonna stop. Some ppl will complain even when there is nothing to complain about.

Railjack will probably bring in some ppl who will complain that now they have to invest into a completely new system and they can't be OP or something like that.

Can't wait to flex on them

[Midas]

@Voltage

Speaking of Kuva Disruption, help me make the rewards actually good before it is too late.

https://youtu.be/uk7iiEJCwuE

^^ This will not work I assure the player base that.

[Midas]

At this point, a Veteran player is basically an Elder of the game. It has nothing to do with their "skill" or "knowledge" of the game itself.