"Echoes of Umbra" feedback

[AkyFenrir]

Le 25/08/2019 à 05:17, (XB1)SixGunLove a dit :

There are almost 42 Warframes. And more coming. Many will want to Umbralize all thier frames. That is enough of a reason for those to keep going back to play the mode for the echoes. Also new frames every 3 months. 

 It should be a permanent option.  Meaning, that the Warframe you choose to install the echo in will be able to be "Umbralized" or "DeUmbralized" by visiting the chair.  Maybe even those with a Umbra forma can be unbralized permanently when a echo is installed. 

All that said a temporary umbra mode for 24 hours is a joke. 

Well, it wouldn't be an "infinite reward" than?

 

Le 25/08/2019 à 05:20, trst a dit :

Did they explicitly state there will not be more Umbral frames? Because the existence of Echoes doesn't mean there never will be. In-fact having them a 24 hour effect means quite the opposite as it would keep actual Umbral frames more unique.

Also the topic of more Umbral frames is an iffy one to begin with; players do want them but DE is (or was) unsure with how to introduce more. Especially with the issue of how would their value be balanced with Primes. Umbral frames would risk making prime frames obsolete and Excalibur is the only exception because his prime is unobtainable.

Echoes works as the middle ground with adding Umbra frames as it gives players the Umbra effect without needing to make an entirely new frame. There are also clashing gameplay and story issues with making echoes permanent as the passive is detrimental in some circumstances but making a "toggle sentience" button breaks the already iffy story implications with echoes.

Excalibur Umbra was the founder pack in China for some reason. People kept complaining about the fact founders got an exclusive warframe and that China got another one exclusive.

De bringing Umbra was an easy way to cope with those 2 problems.

 

Le 25/08/2019 à 06:04, (XB1)SixGunLove a dit :

Should you get Borderlands 3?!

.

.

.

Is water wet? 

No you shouldn't, at least not on Epic. Gearbox CEO is taking us for granted, there's not even cloud saves yet on epic.

Wait 6months for steam release.

Le 25/08/2019 à 10:27, XenophageKnight a dit :

Here me out for second, instead of releasing new frames, why don't we get an Umbra-lizer quest that takes your primed frame and makes it an Umbra. This would prevent primes from being left out of the loop. I'm not sure about the number of Umbral slots they should have if any 

See 2 answer up :)

[Fire2box]

2 hours ago, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

Oxium is rare a highly explosive, I don't really see Orokins using it that much

I got like 300,000 of them on my ship. It's safe. 

[sleepychewbacca]

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We're going to hold this back to act on weekend feedback and more - 2 days isn't enough time to inject all the changes we want to add, so we will release this at a later date in a different form. The reward will likely be replaced with a new 'Lua Lens' for earning Focus - details to come!

So for those of us who have capped focus? 

Not that I'm complaining further, but more of a well... that doesn't give me much incentive now. XD

[Jivy]

so 2 days for next mainline? nice

[Temragon]

I hope we'll get some sort of permanent upgrade for frames to allow them to operate independently. It's what I thought was happening with Umbra, and he would just come with it for free.

I can understand the desire to keep us interested in content, maybe have the same 24 hour mechanic as a buff to self-active frames instead of enabling it in the first place? More damage, use abilities, whatever.

I'm not sure I really like the whole Umbra theming in the first place, though. At this point, Umbra is Umbra to me (as a frame). Why not have them as some Helminth-driven activity? Transference out, and you could interact with your warframe to tell Helminth to run it while you're out. Activate again to turn off.

 

Suggestion summary:

 

1. Earnable, permanent upgrade for frames to enable "Helminth-assist" mode

2. Interact with your frame as operator disable/enable once installed

3. Consumable "Echo of umbra"-like buff for "Helminth-assist" mode as the reason to go back to the game mode -- perhaps giving them full damage, more health, or enabling ability use

Edited August 26, 2019 by Temragon

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

On 2019-08-23 at 9:55 AM, GnarlsDarkley said:

100 times this.

Depending on how expensive/grindy it will be, we'll have to see if it's worth. And if you don't use Operator much this is wasted in all scenarios

This might be more valuable after the duviri paradox or whatever if our operators end up getting aged up, and presumably, better.

[Kaftar_Gaming]

I was excited at first about these Echoes, but I was disappointed on the 24 hour use. I hate the fact I have to grind on getting both halfs and craft Umbra Echoes so I can use it on my Ember on a daily basis. I'm offline for 20 hours. Even though I would love to have a Warframe fighting by my side, but with the downside as terrible as 24 hour use and a possibly of no abilities will be used.... it's just not worth it.

Edited August 26, 2019 by Kaftar_Gaming

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

I doubt its game breaking or that it would cause anyone to spend that much more time in the game farming them. So it kinda raises an eyebrow.I reeeaaally like the idea of upgrading frames into Umbra-centric, these echo things are out of the blue (not necessarily a bad thing).

Edited August 26, 2019 by (XB1)Architect Prime
spoiler tag

[Xaero]

4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We're going to hold this back to act on weekend feedback and more - 2 days isn't enough time to inject all the changes we want to add, so we will release this at a later date in a different form. The reward will likely be replaced with a new 'Lua Lens' for earning Focus - details to come!

[Circle_of_Psi]

4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

The reward will likely be replaced with a new 'Lua Lens' for earning Focus

So, no plans for Umbra Forma?, that's a shame

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Because we need some reason to go back and farm them again.

[Birdframe_Prime]

Well, there is a very clear reason why they're temporary: To make you, force you, to grind both mission nodes every day in order to get this thing you want.

Which wouldn't be bad... if the thing was actually something better than just 'your frame can use its weapons and follow you around like a puppy while you're in Operator Mode'.

Enough players (not me, I enjoy my mini pod-person) hate the Operators and hate being forced to use them that this will be an unwanted reward for all of those people. And enough people just... couldn't care less about them beyond the buffs they can give to Warframes. Even the most enthusiastic Operator players are more interested in the fantastic synergies they can get with either invulnerability phases, healing, Arcane boosts, opening enemies to Finishers, energy recovery, and so on, than they are in actually running around as the kid.

Even in Eidolon hunts, the whole meta is designed around making sure that you spend as little time killing either phase, the Shields or the Synovas, as possible. 

And even from a purely objective point of view, this is nothing but a way to solo level Amps faster. You get out of your frame, use your Amp to kill things, your frame also kills thing, your Amp gets more Affinity faster. There is no other benefit to extended trips out of your frame. Everything the Operator is and does, beyond that function, is based around jumping out, doing something in three seconds or so, and then jumping back in again to use your weapons and abilities.

Operators are not supposed to replace Warframe game play, self-professed by the creators themselves, they're supposed to enhance it. The whole idea of adding the tag-along portion of Excal Umbra's passive is basically backwards to what Operators are designed to achieve.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

2 hours ago, AkyFenrir said:

Well, it wouldn't be an "infinite reward" than?

? I don't understand what you are try to say ?

Edited August 26, 2019 by (XB1)SixGunLove

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

2 hours ago, AkyFenrir said:

No you shouldn't, at least not on Epic. Gearbox CEO is taking us for granted, there's not even cloud saves yet on epic.

I'm on console. So much for PC master race.

[AkyFenrir]

il y a 35 minutes, (XB1)SixGunLove a dit :

? I don't understand what you are try to say ?

Well, they've said in the devstream. Their intent is to introduce "infinite rewards" in the game to add replayability... Something you can farm over and over. That's their first shot at it... It's not fantastic, but it's "something

il y a 35 minutes, (XB1)SixGunLove a dit :

I'm on console. So much for PC master race.

Well, since Epic... it's kinda bad around here...

[DeathDweller]

14 minutes ago, AkyFenrir said:

Well, they've said in the devstream. Their intent is to introduce "infinite rewards" in the game to add replayability... Something you can farm over and over. That's their first shot at it... It's not fantastic, but it's "something

Kuva, credits, resources, endo, ayatans etc are infinite as well and they'll see more use than this.

[Velkana]

I don't have time to check all previous answers/suggestions, but I think giving us 24h is not worth it BUT maybe 24h on a missions is a better and not so bad idea? I mean, it will allow us to do for example 24x1h survival! Or more shorter missions before expiring. 😄

It's kinda worth grinding then, or at least I think so

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

Now if the frames are made to target synovas on their own, that could be very interesting. 

[Toppien]

5 hours ago, -Bv-Psykiik said:

i didn't know there is a feedback topic about echo of umbra here so i just will copy/paste part of my post in reddit here 

i dont like it  .we wanted a new umbra warframe like Rhino umbra or Valkitty umbra or maybe Saryn umbra and it should come with a lore quest with a story like the sacrifice quest

( DE have said in a devstream that there will likely be more umbra frames but it won't be every frame like prime frames)

but now if they added this i feel like DE telling us to forget any another umbra warframe and here a grinding mechanism to temporarily turn any wf to umbra .. just 1 day and no abilities just weapons 

now i lost hope for a cinematic quest about Rhino prime codex or cinematic story about Valkyr and Aladv because i see many ppl ask for permanent change to Umbra from and if that happen .. no more Umbra quests 😞

why not make those cinematic quest about our normal warframes? there's many fans of the moving warframe at the climax of the second dream, making more warframe versions doesn't feel right

[Steel_Rook]

40 minutes ago, AkyFenrir said:

Well, they've said in the devstream. Their intent is to introduce "infinite rewards" in the game to add replayability... Something you can farm over and over. That's their first shot at it... It's not fantastic, but it's "something

"It's not fantastic" is a polite way of putting it. This is DNA Stabilisers all over again. Taking an already grindy game and turning permanent upgrades into upkeep consumables is not a way to create "infinite rewards." It's a way to create an infinite waste of time. Once again, DE behave as though rewards are literally the only reason to play new content, which shows a remarkable lack of faith in their own work.

[Cabal]

DE missed the opportunity to make this what Umbral forma were about.

 

[AkyFenrir]

il y a 26 minutes, DeathDweller a dit :

Kuva, credits, resources, endo, ayatans etc are infinite as well and they'll see more use than this.

Never said otherwise...

il y a 2 minutes, Steel_Rook a dit :

"It's not fantastic" is a polite way of putting it. This is DNA Stabilisers all over again. Taking an already grindy game and turning permanent upgrades into upkeep consumables is not a way to create "infinite rewards." It's a way to create an infinite waste of time. Once again, DE behave as though rewards are literally the only reason to play new content, which shows a remarkable lack of faith in their own work.

Well, people keep asking for new rewards... And DE has the stats by missions played and stuff... If they do that it's to solve a "problem" right ?

[zekkzekk]

I don't have suggestions on how to make Echoes of Umbra successful. I do however have a player's insight of why I won't be using them if they're to be as I understand them currently proposed. Echoes of Umbra require two parts that are rewards from disruptions. After crafted they will be applied to a warframe for a single day's duration. Echoes allow warframes to see parity in functionality of the Excalibur Umbra warframe; Pseudo Autopilot while the player is actively using their operator.

I don't use my operator enough because it's not as strong as my warframe in all three metrics; Mobility, Toughness, Damage. My decision won't ever be to make my warframe fill in for me when I'm occasionally using my operator. When I do use my Operator I do so to heal myself, companions, squadmates, etc and then also stun enemies.

Umbra Echoes don't fit within my current playstyle and as currently proposed don't offer much in new creative opportunities.

[DeathDweller]

2 minutes ago, AkyFenrir said:

Never said otherwise...

You said it's their first shot.

[AkyFenrir]

il y a 2 minutes, zekkzekk a dit :

I don't have suggestions on how to make Echoes of Umbra successful. I do however have a player's insight of why I won't be using them if they're to be as I understand them currently proposed. Echoes of Umbra require two parts that are rewards from disruptions. After crafted they will be applied to a warframe for a single day's duration. Echoes allow warframes to see parity in functionality of the Excalibur Umbra warframe; Pseudo Autopilot while the player is actively using their operator.

That's how it's been introduced