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Screamlord_Star

"Echoes of Umbra" feedback

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Won't.even.bother.!!! I don't care for my operator beyond tridolon.... Here's an Idea: use this new mode to introduce players to crafted amalgam mods... DE creates a "kuva like" resource, which we can use in "combining" 2 Warframe mods into an amalgam one! All Warframe mods are clustered into 3 groups
1) non combining (umbral, aura, corrupted mods etc)
2) group A - most used/basic/powerful mods (streamline, flow, stretch, primed continuity...)
3) group B - utility/fun/less-used mods (motus signal, intruder, proton pulse...)
A player can combine only one from group A with one from group B to make his/her own unique amalgam mod.
For example I could combine one of my "stretch" mods with one of my "rending turn" to have both benefits. That way a plethora of unused mods can have a spot in our builds and due to so many possible combinations we would farm again and again that "kuva type" resource! Just so we can creat new combinations like stretch+motus signal... Stretch+warm coat... streamline+thief's wit... Etc...

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So, "Echoes of Umbra" is a 24h consumable for a warframe which gives a mind of it's own and has a 2 part dropping table and a bp. That's just a small window of usability and I don't think anyone will farm for that just so the warframe follow you in action like Excalibur Umbra does.

 

This "Echoes of Umbra" should be a prologue to Umbra frames and this is how I think it should be for now: 

  • you go and farm the parts, make the blueprint and install it on a warframe of choice;
  • make the consumable permanent and usable on only ONE warframe(player's choice);
  • after you install it or when the blueprint is made, ordis will say to you  Are you sure you want to install it, operator?Prolonged usage of this item will make your warframe unstable. or something like that
  • after that and until the actual Umbra quest for more umbra frames comes out, the warframe with the most "Echoes of Umbra" installed should be the next umbra

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Finally using the helminth room... for this useless feature.

I was always kinda hoping the umbras could be some kind of dark sci-fi thing. The story of excal umbra is very dark and now asking us to grind some game mode to make a vitamin boost for Helminth to inject into us for a very limited time gimmick? I feel sad that this is what they are doing with two features (Helminth room and Umbra) we waited very long for. 

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Console player here.  Personally this would be something i'd grind for.  I think the gimmick is interesting enough to go for.  I could see myself grinding this out to slap it on all my frames and future frames.  But what I don't like is the time limited thing and that they turn your frames powers off.  I find the reasoning behind both to be bull.  Even if something could be abused power wise you could easily fix that in a case by case basis.  You certainly have no problem with taking away things from us whenever you don't like what's happening.  This would be no different.

I'm assuming the real reason is it would be a monster of a project to make the coding work for all of the frames.  Since you're basically using modified specter behavior for this echos thing that's pretty obvious.  Also the limit thing is to "encourage us to go back and grind" for it for a long time to come?  No.  I don't accept that.  You knew that if you let it be a perma effect on frames that it wouldn't last as a new reward because you have players that would grind it out to be done with it.  This doesn't encourage us to go back and grind it.  This makes us want to not even bother attempting.

It's a neat concept that was poorly thought out.  I'm sure later down the line when our tenno are older and we have our own weaponry besides amps fighting along side our frame will be more appealing.  But it simply isn't right now.  And severely limiting it's current meger potential doesn't do DE any favors.  I would be surprised if DE doesn't just scrap the idea due to poor reception instead of actually making an effort to improve it.  Because that would require resources they'd rather dedicate elsewhere.

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Alright. I have returned and I now have all the new Sentient faction amalgams scanned. I am impressed that the corpus could create a flamethrower that can melt Sentient armor. But I am disappointed that they are so weak and squishy even at level 100+. 

I was really expecting them to be something like a fusion between a tankiness of a Conculyst, the ability cancellation of a Demolyst, the weird unique and cool gimmicks of an Amalgam, and that they hit harder than Battalysts.

Also, they took Conculysts out of the simulacrum for some reason. =/

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From what I've heard, Echo frames deactivate abilities when you go to spoiler mode, making them a downgrade considering how strong spoiler mode is for support. The Echo seems like a situational gimmick, so the 24 hour restriction seems pretty reasonable to me.

If it really does become permanent, we would need some way to disable it before a mission.

2 hours ago, Zhaeph said:

a prologue to Umbra frames

I think the whole point of the Echo is that they don't want to add an umbra version of every frame, since the game already has a well established Prime system.

Adding Umbras will both ruin the system of Prime Packs and Vaults, along with making players feel like they wasted resources on investing in Prime frames.

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Well, they need SOME way to make sure disruption is always littered with worthless dead drops while pretending it's supposed to have good ones.

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It's a waste of time other than maybe once or twice for trying it out..

I would rather DE provide a permanent Umbra effect for Prime Frames "only" where a player has managed to place three Umbral forma on, a Tomato, a Potato, a normal forma, and lastly an Aura forma...and even then it should only come into effect if the player's operator has sustained a major amount of damage and the Frame procs to life to defend the player...Or it just does it randomly and rarely when a Player pops out to fight as a Operator...or say it senses an attack from the stalker or other assassins...

 

That's about it..as for Echoes..oh boy I guess...

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It is worth noting that even on Excalibur Umbra, with his full complement of abilities at his disposal, the sentience passive is of questionable usefulness, because Excal Umbra never benefits from Spoiler Mode's damage reduction, and can thus very easily die in higher-level content. I see no reason why I would ever commit to such an effect, particularly if it were to be saddled with so many additional restrictions. If the thing made my frame fully sentient, like Umbra, didn't disable ability use, and perhaps had some lore tied to it (e.g. uncovering the frame's past), then maybe I'd go for it, but as it stands no part of this new consumable feels desirable.

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On 2019-08-23 at 2:02 PM, WellIHopeThisOneWorks said:

 

I like this, I like this a lot. It keeps the use of the chair to turn on/off the Umbral form, so people can have it on, or off if they dont want there frame killing themselves in Eidolon hunts or something. 

Yes. 

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On 2019-08-23 at 3:30 PM, TehGrief said:

It's strange... because on one hand, the effect should be permanent and remain on the frame - however, on the other hand it should just not be added to the game (at least not in this way)

I fully agree with the assessment: putting aside how the current proposed reward for Echoes of Umbra seems incredibly anemic, it may not be a good idea to give us the full bonuses, because the end result offers a reduction, rather than an increase in gameplay. Operator Mode offers very little to do, because the Operator is incredibly weak in actual combat even with maxed-out Focus, Arcanes, etc., and on top of that the mode has the perfect tool to stall, i.e. Void Mode, so the resulting combination of mechanics just encourages going AFK in Void Mode as the Operator while our frame tears everything apart, a strategy that works pretty decently on Excal Umbra right up until enemies start dealing too much damage. Before we start making more of our frames sentient, we need to seriously take another look at Operator Mode, and make the playstyle much more active.

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I know it's already been said, but please, just make the effect permanent rather than 24 hours, with the ability to toggle it on and off. I'd be fine with having to farm a blueprint and set of resources for each frame I want to put it on. 

But what about the incentive to return to the mission node? Say I've put all the time and effort into farming all of the resources to permanently apply the effect to every frame in the game. New frames are always coming out. New primes come out every year. The incentive to return is that there are always new frames coming out that we can apply Echoes of Umbra to.

The 24 hour timer for something as "just okay" as warframe sentience is an incentive for me to NOT farm these resources AT ALL

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The real root of the problem I’ve seen some bring up is the operator. By comparison to their Warframe, they are weak. It sounds more and more like DE needs to do a rework on Operator to be viable or on the same level as their Warframe. If DE wants us to use Operators more then they have to be on the same level. One is being able to mod Amps like the way we can mod everything else. That’s always been the lure is customization. Even with Arcanes and the different schools, that’s one part I think is missing, but that’s just me 🤷‍♂️

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The 24hrs timer is most likely to  not turn your warframes into permanent umbra when actual umbra warframes get released. It's disappointing but it makes sense.

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Specters already do this better to be honest.  These echo's aren't something I would seek out.  I want my non-umbra frames to stay put while doing a bunch of operator moves anyway.

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Just weapon and can move no skills etc.

Its not worth for me i may go and take some e hoes but no ill never farm this cuz i need it

I think with this clearly indicate that no more umbra frame will be created and u have to create them

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I'm more interested in HOW this EoU came to be. It's somewhat easy and hard at the same time to picture something like this

Dev 1: We need a reward for new disruption

Dev 2: Yes, was thinking about it actually. What if we release a new upgrade for frames?

Dev 3 (just arrived): Like a new forma? Don't know if players are going to like a new for

Dev 2: Let's make them able to get sentience like umbra!!

Dev 1: Don't know about that, I mean....you could summon specters too, not to mention frames that can duplicate on their own with abilities

Dev 2: They won't be able to use abilities

Dev 3: Sooooooo, like a specter? But......worse?

Dev2: YES! This is going to rock da house! No enemy scaling but they will use the normal weapons with mods

Dev 1 and 3: ......................................

Steve and Scott: Approved! this is just what the game needs, oh, and let players apply this thing in the infested room, let nobody say we have abandoned that.

 

I mean, holy crap, I can only assume more than 5 or 6 people working at DE thought about this and how this was needed and or requested and the whole idea of making us walk to the infested room when a simple option in the arsenal to apply it like a forma makes me think this is intended to be a waste of time. Release a whole room with a completely different tile from the rest of the ship and the only thing you use it for is to remove a pimple and to DOWNGRADE you frame into a specter that can't use powers, like a normal lotus operative but with less health/shield.

thumbs-up.gif

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5 hours ago, (XB1)SixGunLove said:

Bit weird right. Should be in feedback. Not GD.

Yup. I don't know why the community gets a hard on for posting feedback in GD. And then everyone is crying because the devs don't listen to them.

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On 2019-08-23 at 4:41 PM, NoLazyShadow said:

You forgot to mention that Umbra would need some kind of compensation for that. DE just took away his passive - one of the few things that make him unique - and alows you to slap it on any frame with grand wall behind it. DE, your idea is dissapointing and Umbra needs some love

Umbra's passive is permanent and allows using abilities, so it's fine. Giving him Void Orb passive back would be a nice touch though.

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9 hours ago, Shelusine said:

The 24hrs timer is most likely to  not turn your warframes into permanent umbra when actual umbra warframes get released. It's disappointing but it makes sense.

With Umbra Forma and commonly available sentience passive, is there any reason to introduce new Umbra frames? I doubt there will be more at this point, though still hope for "Umbral" alternative skins for Primes.

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