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Xehalin

How many of you like the current riven system?

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5 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

Because RNG is what keeps people playing.

Pretty Sure this is a false assumption....

Delaying Gratification is what keeps people playing.... RNG is merely one of the ways DE does this....

More importantly it seems like keeping People playing takes a higher precedent than keeping people happy....

6 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

If you can get everything handed out instantly you wouldn't have thousands of hours in game time.

Right because thats exactly what  people are asking for....

That was sarcasm. You made a counter point to an argument that doesn't exist....

2 minutes ago, bibmobello said:

They will remove everything and you will have to press just a button. If you are lucky you will win the match otherwise you will not.

You will be responsible for this!!!!

I mean.... Good... :) 

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I think it’s ok in concept. Though dispositions need to be better managed so that rivened weapons are on a mostly level playing field. Also reroll cost reduction would be nice. 

My main issue is dispositions though. Catchmoon should not have had a neutral disposition. Gram should not have a strong disposition anymore. Single and Akimbo weapons should not have different dispositions unless they have very different stats. 

There should be more influencing disposition than popularity.

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The riven system itself is fine it's really what people have done with it that's the problem. overvalued god rolled rivens and heavily heavily HEAVILY farmed for kuva to roll everything to perfect stats when really if you just take it in some moderation and roll here or there it's fine. it's fun even for some early weapons when you aren't metachasing either. I have 18 slots and some decently rolled rivens I'm happy with. occasionally I do a sortie or an alert comes up gift of the lotus style and I get another to tinker and debate if I want. And if by 10 rolls I don't get anything even remotely ok (like we're talking really bad rolls here) then I just dissolve and move on with it. That was likely the intent with the system. get a riven and just play around a little bit and maybe move on. not burn yourself out grinding hundred of thousands of Kuva and still crying for more cause you "need" those perfect stats or just run with a truckload of cash for something you know you don't need in a game that isn't even all that difficult so the powercreep you get from a godrolled riven basically goes to waste (even on Eidolons)

 

Though in my opinion t the end of the day I say it's for these reasons that they just scrap the system in it's entirety since really we can't trust people with just about anything or really do anything. Just convert em all to endo and rip it out 

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If you are not frustrated trying to get the best rolls or affected by what is out there...

It is actually a pretty fun system...

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I like it.

What i dont like is peoples greed. That they rather keep riven then dont use for months,asking ridiculous prices rather than selling it to someone who might have some fun with it. Every time i see someone selling riven for something like 9000 i block them, there is no reason i want to do trades with someone like this.

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I enjoy the riven system.  I used to heavily invest my time into rivens as it gave me something to do (looking for the best rolls, experimenting with different positives/negatives, etc).
I used to keep a high profile with respect to trading rivens; this allowed me to keep my farming at a minimum by simply buying what I was after and not having to worry about RNG.

I've been through well over 600 rivens at this point, of nearly all varieties.  There are a lot of changes that could benefit the riven system for both the database and the players.
I feel like a lot of RNG from the riven system should be removed as it causes more troubles than it should.
- The database can be streamlined by removing range of values for more static numbers based on riven disposition, and the naming conventions should be streamlined because we don't need 6 different variations in names for a riven with 3 of the same positive values.
- Rivens should be given their own polarity, instead of 3 different ones as well.
- MR lock on rivens should be removed, with the only requirement being the MR required for the weapon.
- Riven cap should be removed if retrieval of rivens can be more streamlined (with suggestions above to help)
- Kuva should be available for purchase with platinum, this offers a good platinum sink.
- Having a weekly resource that updates players on the most popular/unpopular weapons so people have an idea of what to expect during next riven disposition changes
- Values for certain positive stats need a boost in values to make them slightly more desirable so people aren't too concerned over the main ones (damage, multishot) such as magazine size, reload speed, reduced recoil, etc.

Some extreme suggestions:

- perhaps the introduction of a type of riven where the weapon and the stats can be chosen, with a heavy reduction in disposition, untradeable, and purchasable for platinum (kind of like rivens that can be used for testing certain stat combinations) for people who don't like the RNG at all
- Veiled rivens should be available from an NPC.  Even better if veiled rivens can be available from the Market for platinum (at higher costs than current trade economy, so you can pay more if you don't want to deal with others.  Players should understand this is an option if you don't want to trade others or if you don't want to farm from Sorties/alerts.)
 

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I don´t mind it. Don´t like it, don´t dislike it. 

I don´t care about farming Kuva, but I do think DE should moderate the Riven prices. Some prices are really dumb, and I think no mod is worth 1k plat or more. Not even 500-600.

Kinda agree that a more rewarding system might make rolling Rivens less frustrating for some, and the price of 3.5k for a roll should get lowered a bit too. Silly how 40 minutes in a survival are enough to do 3 rolls (maybe more if lucky with booster + charm). 

Also Riven disposition changes aren´t necessarily a bad thing. I wouldn´t mind seeing more weapons being used, on the other hand though this is clearly not working. Maybe they should "pause" with this and make more weapons usable before.

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I don't have a very strong opinion of it.

I will spend kuva to roll rivens for weapons I like, 

But I will rarely ever go out of my way to buy them for plat. 

The RNG grind does get a little annoying though,

I like how it can make less used weapons more than adequate, but that just means that the weapons were poorly balanced to begin with. 

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In concept I like it, in acquiring them I do not.  I prefer "toy" rivens.  Magazine capacity, reload speed, fire rate, etc.  In general I can get some of the stats I want within a few rolls and I'll just take what ever else comes with it as long as it isn't crippling (-damage anyone?)  Problem is that people only really seem to care to sell rivens for weapons that are popular or if they have "god" rolls already, or in other words, if they can at least squeeze 3 digits of plat out of them.  Plinx rivens for example can't be so rare that only one, maybe two guys are selling them in trade chat at any given moment.

 

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I honestly don't even use it. Way too much RNG. If I get a "meta" weapon riven I just insta low sell unrolled. Coz I'd just ruin it if I try to roll it with my luck.

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I love it the way it is. I wish people would stop pretending like me and likeminded people don't exist.

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8 hours ago, Lutesque said:

LoL.... Warframe doesn't operate on something logical as Math....

More importantly I said... good... not Decent....

Do you expect to win the lottery every time you buy a ticket?

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I would like it, if I actually got rivens from the game that are not for weapons like the hind.. I would have more luck if the acquisition wasn't RNG based but merit based. Like putting (some of) them into the arbitrations vendor so I could get a slightly higher chance of getting an interesting riven. 

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Rivens are pure powercreep, nothing more. They simply increase stats, while doing nothing to add or improve weapon mechanics in any way. I never use them, because I don't feel like putting that much effort into something that will ultimately make the game less fun.

They take way too much time and resources to properly use, mostly due to how many layers of RNG are involved. And even when you do manage to finally get a good one? Your only reward is that you are now even more overpowered than before. Your damage numbers have gotten bigger, and now you now have to wait even longer in endless missions to reach that brief window when the enemy levels actually match your damage output.

I imagine that most of the people that are constantly begging DE for higher level enemies to fight are people who spent some ungodly amount of time, or platinum, on a "god tier" riven, only to realize it was completely pointless. Now they are desperate for some justification for the expenditure.

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"The Riven System" is really vague, indistinct set of multiple moving parts we should break down a bit.

1) Getting a riven

You have a fixed percentage chance to get a riven mod each day from sortie, should you choose to do the three missions.  The three missions are of reasonable difficulty given the rewards pool.  Overall, I do not believe any player has any problem with this as a method of obtaining a riven - except on days with spy missions because Ffffffff-

2) unveiling a riven

The challenges to unveil a riven mod can be seen as a small, fourth mission addition to the sortie.  Sometimes these are comically easy, sometimes they are impossible for a tenno to accomplish at the point they are in the game, however, the riven mod can be left alone in your inventory until you are ready to unveil it, traded with another player for a not insignificant amount of platinum even while veiled, or even just set on your preferred weapon to passively leech accomplishment over time.  This is overall fine and acceptable.

3) Once unveiled

As a player, a randomly selected weapon which you may or may not own or be of sufficient MR to use, just got a potential massive increase in power along a random set of parameters, or you might get a piece of abject crap that grants +magazine size to a bow or -100% damage on anything.  The result is extremely random.  My first riven was for the Tiberon, a gun I only knew because I had most of the parts for the prime variant in my foundry, but was not high enough MR to build it.  So, instead of trading away my riven or doing more sorties, I started a weeks long MR grind to be able to use that selectable fire rifle, and Tiberon prime remains one of my most used guns, despite, on reflection, the riven I have for it being merely good, not amazing like many later unveils.

4) re-rolling, the kuva grind.

Here's probably the stumbling block.  Once unveiled, re-rolling the stats requires a steadily increasing amount of kuva, plateauing at the 10th roll.  Because every stat is changed on a re-roll, it always causes this brief moment of panic: is 83% multishot and with bonus electric damage and an expanded magazine worth losing my 120% critical chance with reduced recoil and projectile flight speed? (I'm not specifying any weapons here, but you've all had to make a choice between two "not exactly what I wanted" results like this before).

The accepted fastest way to farm kuva is (with no boosters or pet chicanery in this explanation) at the top of the hour, do the kuva flood mission.  Then go do kuva survivals until either your party starts dying or they manage to destroy a harvester, extract, then do one or two kuva syphon missions while waiting for the flood to reset as the clock strikes the next hour.  Understatement incoming:  This can get somewhat monotonous.  However, this can be rectified with the inclusion of additional game modes that provide comparable amounts of Kuva, for example, the nightwave offering 10k kuva for just doing nightwave missions that we would do normally is a fantastic inclusion, and the upcoming Kuva Fortress Disruption game node, we may be seeing less tedious kuva farming on the horizon.

5) trading (or, why the last vestiges of the riven mafia will never be eradicated)

Here's the issue: in a market where the quality of a product has a direct impact on its price, but also the awareness of the seller is a key factor, there will be people who prey on ignorance.  A perfect riven for the meta weapon might be traded by a foolish player to a cunning dish-rag of a human in exchange for an Ammo drum and promises of Hollywood fame, with how hard they are being "me too"'d.  Mine took a Rubico riven for a Prova riven they had allready rolled 10 times.  Yes, they are in my clan.  Yes, I hold it against them.  Still salty.

6) final thoughts

Overall, the "riven system" is fine.  The only issues come from monotonous survival missions (which DE is addressing), the random rerolls (which you can take or leave at your leisure), and human waste that defraud newbies for their lucky spoils.  You know who you are.

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If i have to be honest the Riven system is total mess.

They said it was good for balancing weapons...

No it's not, it's a way to force people to spend their time finding kuva and rolling and selling only the best(or the newest) weapons.

Try so sell below cost some decent(fully maxed)riven of not meta weapons on the trading chat and you will not get any reply at all! Try to sell 2.000 plat a DECENT rubico riven and you will get dozens of replies.

Why does a rubico riven, even with 1 star disposition, have so great stats and other weapons with 2 stars are almost unusable?

Why did they write the Kohm disposition has not been nerfed on purpose?

Hey DE  i use the zenistar,  i don't see many people using it so  we can make a deal, give it 5 star disposition so i can clear whole level 1000 maps and i promise i will revive new players...

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Rivens are just a gambling mini game, you do not need them and are not forced to engage in riven content if you do not want to. 

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14 hours ago, trst said:

I find the current system acceptable.

I've long realized that there is zero reason to own a godly riven, let alone rivens for good/meta weapons. Thus the only ones I ever buy from others rarely cost more than 40p and I now have an excuse to gather Kuva to roll it. Plus when I do unveil any good or meta rivens I can freely sell them to the less enlightened.

Warframe also isn't the first game I've even played with rng based grind systems so getting bad rolls on Rivens doesn't even phase me. Seriously the grind to get a "godly" riven is nothing compared to mandatory grinds in other games.

So all in all it's a system that has made my fun weapons more effective in all content that doesn't require more refined set ups and has only made me platinum in selling the good rivens I've gotten and had no use for.

I agree with this, buying rivens for low plat gives you a reason to grind kuva, think about it this way... if you just put modifiers on the rolls so we get what we want, rivens become worthless. The economy of rivens is already pretty high for godlys or rivens that are hot cakes (think rubico) but how much easier could you possibly want this system? If you're having trouble farming kuva I can understand your point.... but then again its my opinion that if you cant do the content you're not ready to reap the rewards.... this game is pretty damn easy already.

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14 hours ago, Peter said:

No one like it, is just a slot machine.

Agreed, My Riven storage is full of unwanted Rivens for weapons I never use, and When I DO get a riven for a weapon that i want just getting something useful takes forever, and with the increasing cost per roll I end up wasting thousands of Kuva just to get a roll with something half usable.

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13 hours ago, (PS4)FriendSharkey said:

It's what EA calls Surprise Mechanics...

EA might want to call it that. But we shouldn't.

Certain aspects of old NES games are RNG based. So we've had loot boxes since like 1985 in our home by that logic. Any and all RNG based systems, be it any dice rolling in an RPG, random weapon stats, or rivens, shouldn't be lumped into the same catagory with what are actual loot boxes( required micro transaction, (with premium currency or actual money) for random item instead of just selling said item directly for a fixed price etc).

It's inarguable RNG mechanics have a place in games, from the RNG tileset jigsawing logic WF uses to construct a level to % based drop chances. None of those are loot boxes though, which are quite specific in concept.

Rivens skirt the border because there is no direct monetisation of rolling them, DE made it so you can't buy kuva from the store at all for probably exactly this reason. They removed the kubro slot machine which was monitised within 24hrs for the same reason after all.

What a f2p like WF does though is the concept of  "the players are content." We are used to monetise each other, the grey area is by keeping a player playing, ie by grinding kuva a lot. Is that a form of monetisation? I mean, yes, if you look at how internal discussions about monetisation tactics are developed and deployed within the games industry. (there have been numerous papers and developer talks on the subject over the last 10 years,) but it's not directly monetised. So it's unlikely they will be legislated against.
But the fact is neither will actual loot boxes if publishers can just hand wave it away by pointing out all these other benigh systems that are inherent in games since at least the 80s, which aren't monetised, are also loot boxes. 

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I think something similar to the system in the division 1 is better. In the Division you can reroll up to two stats on loot items and you can bring all stats to maximum on a loot item. For rivens it would mean you could select one or maybe two stats and reroll them separately and then you could bring all stats two maximum.

But Scott said in an interview that they wouldn't do stat locking in rivens because than it would be to easy to get god rolls.  

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12 hours ago, (NSW)Sk0rp1on said:

I do realize that, but what everyone who dislikes rivens seems to actually want is a build your own mod system, not a random  stat system. If rivens became more stable or there was some guarantee that investment guaranteed return, they wouldn’t really be rivens. They’d be something else.

 

But... Rivens were not sold to was an RNG slot machine, they were sold to us as a system to make lesser used weapons more viable. That is what Rivens are, the RNG is just how DE chose attempt to meet those ends.

And that base concept, something to make every weapon competitive in the late game, is something that would do wonders for Warframe's replayability.

 

But it is not like we will ever see major Riven changes, too many people are concerned with their god rolls and care more for their personal gain than the health of the game.

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59 minutes ago, bibmobello said:

Why does a rubico riven, even with 1 star disposition, have so great stats and other weapons with 2 stars are almost unusable?

Whenever a weapon comes into "the meta" it immediately makes certain types of players obsess over it.

There is a "meta" to hunting eidolons.  You need one of a select list of frames, built to perform one of the select roles for eidolon hunting.  You need to have corrosive projections equipped to three team members so you strip 90% of the armor.  You have to get the correct amp so you deplete the shields.  You need the right focus talents to increase your operator performance, but most of all, if you want to improve your efficiency, getting a sniper rifle riven is an absolute must.

The Rubico Prime is currently "the meta" for hunting eidolons.  It's riven disposition is tanking right now, sure, due to heavy use among the eidolon farming set, but even a one-spot riven is potentially better than sticking a 60/60 on in it's place.

The sheer number of people using the Rubico is precisely why it has such a low disposition.  If fewer people were using it, you would see the power of the riven grow, just like Lanka has seen tiny ticks up in disposition since Rubico prime was unveiled.  And while it may take Lanka a long time to crawl out of the hole that it's users dug for it - it will eventually achieve a harmonious balance with the Rubico Prime.

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