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How many of you like the current riven system?


Xehalin
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I like Rivens and I feel they were well executed, but two things have messed/are messing with it. The first is that even though the Devs mentioned that stats were subject to change, they didn't start patching Dispositions up and down until a very long time after their release, leaving many players shocked at this eventually happening. The second is good old-fashioned player greed: it's not enough to have a good mod, one must have a "god mod", and some players make it their primary in-game goal to try and work these mods to squeeze Plat out of other players.

With all of this in mind, I think a player needs some amount of foresight, introspection and self-control to make the Riven system improve their experience with the game. The harder you try and reach for the uppermost echelons of the system, the more frustrated you're going to get. This reaches a point where you have to decide what kind of gameplay you want to have and how much grinding you're willing to do before you're just making your free time no longer worth it. I play with Rivens sometimes, appreciate my occasional good luck, do a few rerolls when I have spare Kuva, and move on with my game. That's the balance I'm at now and I'm frankly pretty happy with it.

Some things I keep in mind to maintain a healthy relationship with Rivens: Rivens aren't necessary, so I don't dedicate that much time to them. Meta Rivens aren't very high disposition, and if they are then it'll probably drop at least somewhat. Meta weapons are strong without Rivens, and so most of my time goes to Rivens in the off-meta (they're more likely to get buffed, too). I don't pay Plat for Rivens unless there's a specific weapon I want one for, and even then I won't pay much for one. I'm not using Plat I paid for to buy someone else's luck. Finally, and this is a sneaky one, the closer your Riven is to the best it could possibly be, the more Kuva you are going to burn without changing your mod. The better your mod is currently, the less likely it is that a reroll will give you a spread you like better than the one you already have.

The system isn't perfect, and I think there are a few things that could have a positive effect on them. The most underused weapons/Rivens could have a chance for their Rivens to introduce stats that augment a weapon's base values. (Nobody uses the Karyst for example, not because its Dispo is bad, but because both its Crit and Status chances are terrible. Buffing the weapon itself is ideal, but intoducing flat value Riven stats on underpowered weapons could be fun. Surprise Crit Karyst.) Kuva could be more smoothly blended into resource drops across the game (most Kuva farms are separated and are just for farming Kuva, so when you gather it you are on a specific mission to do so, and it feels that much more frustrating when you have no new rolls to show for it in the end).

Edited by SenorClipClop
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On 2019-08-23 at 1:18 AM, Xehalin said:

How many of you like the current riven system?

It's fine

On 2019-08-23 at 1:18 AM, Xehalin said:

It's terribly expensive or inexpensive to get into, depending on which weapon you want a riven for

Don't do that. Just pick them up randomly, either use them or don't and grab Kuva when you don't have anything better to do for the chance of something neat. They are optional extras for the time-rich that provide fun potential for elevating low-tier weapons.

On 2019-08-23 at 1:18 AM, Xehalin said:

Going back to how expensive it can be, there's also a huge lack of control from DE in terms of the Riven market. This means some people are able to extort large amounts of plat for something they really shouldn't be able to do so with.

Don't buy them, just dont.

Personally I'd advocate for a "Each earned item can only be traded once" lock on all arbitrage, then you can add an offline trade UI without issue. Trading needs to serve the game not create it's own zombie-life.

But that's nothing specifically to do with Rivens.

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it honestly is a indirect lootbox , the purpose was to make meh weapons = meta weapons and even everything out

to bad it just made metas stronger and  phased out its purpose it was intended for 

reason it stays honestly is because people buy plat, to buy rivens, & slots in droves  meaning is just a slot machine money pit between buyers/sellers in market with made up escalating prices (1 -#0,000 plat)

aka loot box via player to player  & de profits off plat sales indirectly, thus its a lootbox system that can exist and not get flagged 

 

Edited by (XB1)EternalDrk Mako
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I don't, aside from the burnout risks from kuva grinding, I have zero attachment to rivens now since all your hard work can go up in flames. They should just turn them into an investment where kuva switches stats then bumps them up or something because I just see no point in rolling for nice stats that can all amount to nothing on a whim. 

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I hate the current riven system and I hate the cut throat riven trading market. I hate that they NERF the rivens and they allow for ridiculous amounts of plat to be traded for them. They COULD cap the plat trade on them if they wanted but players will find a way to circumvent that. 

 

I do NOT like the Kuva system and how much it costs to re-roll rivens. I hate how long it takes to earn Kuva and how mandatory it is to buy a resource boost pack just to make Kuva farming faster. It’s NOT fun!!!!!!! It’s NOT exciting!!!!!! It’s bad.

rivens have become necessary and to have such good rolls be SO uncommon and so little ways to acquire so little at a time has driven the market and demand way way way up!

 

Kuva and Riven system is horrible and NOT fun!!!

 

Oh and there’s NO reason for you DE to be nerfing the LATO riven... it’s weak no matter what.

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And I hate how I can blow through 1 million Kuva and literally not get any good combos for that many rolls... it’s NOT rewarding and it’s NOT fun especially for all the hard NOT-FUN work involved with farming Kuva. There’s no excitement with the riven and Kuva system. The chances of rolling anything I actually want are slim. That has got to change. It will bring demand down a notch so players won’t hoard rivens and platinum. 

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On 2019-08-23 at 12:09 PM, anikj2020 said:

I don't like rivens at all.

The concept behind them is nice but that should be something we should earn over time like say you crossed 5000 kills with tigris so now it does 10% more damage.

RNG rolling of stats is just bad...but hey plat sink aka more money!!!

Nothing can be done now I think....they are here to stay anyways so this discussion is pointless.

Something you earn over time like kill 5k things to gain 10% damage is not a good idea because then it becomes a requirement and people will hate it because they will feel they must do that with all their weapons and they don’t like the grind because the game is all about grind already. Just more grind, etc. 

 

Rivens is NOT a platinum sink when players are hoarding the plat AND the rivens. It stays in the game economy.

Platinum sink is buying stuff directly  from DE market with platinum. Platinum sink is buying slots, frame slots, formas, deluxe skins etc. when the platinum goes back to DE, that’s a platinum sink. 

Edit: stupid iPhone auto-correcting me 

Edited by LordChronos
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On 2019-08-22 at 7:18 PM, Xehalin said:

Title says it all. I'm thinking of doing a feedback thread of my own in regards to how bad I think the riven system is, why they should change it, and what they can do to change it. Before I do so, I wanted to see what other people think of it. If you like or dislike it, please tell me why. I'd love to know your opinions. Please be honest, too!

 

I'll go first: I honestly hate the current riven system because it doesn't feel like it gives you a proper sense of progression or growth. It's terribly expensive or inexpensive to get into, depending on which weapon you want a riven for and your luck with rivens in general. Getting a riven type you want, or even the stats you want, is gated heavily by a wall of rng. Going back to how expensive it can be, there's also a huge lack of control from DE in terms of the Riven market. This means some people are able to extort large amounts of plat for something they really shouldn't be able to do so with. This becomes even worse when the most expensive rivens are usually the first to get a dispo nerf from DE. I guess I hate everything about it besides the fact that it's a modular system that can empower any weapon to crazy levels. Even Kuva farming is kind of bad and unrewarding, especially if you're unlucky with riven rolls.

The buffs could've been a great way to create a skill tree for weapons after they have been formad and you pump affinity into them and use kuva to unlock larger nodes on a skill tree or something like that. That would make people use weapons they like after they are maxed and improve them a bit. It would get rid of the rng. Give us some side progression to work on between updates and it would add bragging rights to having tons of affinity or time on a weapon. Instead they made slot machine type mods. Honestly they could even keep the mods and just add a progression system to them so that you pump affinity and kuva into the mod but it wouldn't be rng and it would be a lot more balanced amd could affect weapons in unique and interesting ways with various directions in the mod or skill tree so that you had to choose certain things over other giving more choice to builds it could've been so much more but they just kinda threw something together. I think the idea in itself wasn't terrible but the execution was poor but they can still change it. Warframe is always changing they can revamp the riven system but then a lot of people might get mad because they cant sell mods for tons of plat and they would feel like they wasted time and resources but honestly i think they could change it and it would improve the game as a whole. Honestly mods in general tend to be kinda messed. I mean mods for the most part are ok and stuff but things liek augments and stuff should be based on progression instead of just resources and rng that way players can change their builds without sacrificing mod slots all the time and once again it would give progression to the game and give people stuff to do and they could earn affinity however they want to. But i think they would also need to revisit how affinity is gained so that stealth mutipliers are still viable and usefull but staying and fighting super high level enemies or doing other missions and even being a good support char etc would give affinity so everyone doesn't end up doing the same stuff over and over. Ofc they could but with more sidegrade options it would open the other game modes up a bit and that would decrease burn out. There's so much DE can do with the current game we have they just need to try and make the game a bit more deep not just wide. DE is trying tho and that's better then most companies i just hope they see player feedback and threads so that the game improves the foundations so that the rest of the game improves naturally.

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On 2019-08-22 at 6:18 PM, Xehalin said:

Getting a riven type you want, or even the stats you want, is gated heavily by a wall of rng

But when that rng works in your favor and you get a 2.5k plat god roll, then what?

Hmmmm? Would it be fair if everyone was getting god rolls? Suddenly good roll rivens are inexpensive mods that everyone has.

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8 hours ago, LordChronos said:

Something you earn over time like kill 5k things to gain 10% damage is not a good idea because then it becomes a requirement and people will hate it because they will feel they must do that with all their weapons and they don’t like the grind because the game is all about grind already. Just more grind, etc. 

 

Rivens is NOT a platinum sink when players are hoarding the plat AND the rivens. It stays in the game economy.

Platinum sink is buying stuff directly  from DE market with platinum. Platinum sink is buying slots, frame slots, formas, deluxe skins etc. when the platinum goes back to DE, that’s a platinum sink. 

Edit: stupid iPhone auto-correcting me 

Atleast people will play the game more and have fun doing that.Totally rolling stats on RNG is just wrong in every way.

Also riven is a huge plat sink for players(esp new ones) cause everyone does not have time to invest ingame. So many people just buy high end rivens for the weapons they love.

What I meant by plat sink is that people buy large amounts of plats for just a single riven.Maybe I quoted that wrong but you get the point.

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Reposting my solution to the "not enough space in the servers to give more riven slots" nonsense excuse.

Rework them to remove a bit of "uniqueness" and give them integers only, preferably only certain multipliers like 5, round down any fractions to the nearest multiplier, problem solved, rivens will now do checks from a table and consume way less space (which many savvy users have pointed out is still not as much as DE wants people to believe), this will also regulate the market a bit since a few more identical rivens will be around.

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10 hours ago, anikj2020 said:

Atleast people will play the game more and have fun doing that.Totally rolling stats on RNG is just wrong in every way.

Also riven is a huge plat sink for players(esp new ones) cause everyone does not have time to invest ingame. So many people just buy high end rivens for the weapons they love.

What I meant by plat sink is that people buy large amounts of plats for just a single riven.Maybe I quoted that wrong but you get the point.

 when you trade with OTHER players for platinum, that is NOT a platinum sink. That is merely just players spending platinum. The platinum STAYS in the economy and causes inflation. 

Platinum sink is when you buy directly from DE and their market using platinum thereby REMOVING platinum from circulation. Just merely spending high amounts of platinum by trading with other players is NOT a platinum sink and it does nothing to help the game economy. Buying more platinum from DE and flooding the market with it weakens the value of said platinum and in doing so, causes more things to become more expensive in the long run.

Making every weapon gain a stat after 5k kills will be a new grind that players will feel is just another requirement on top of all the existing grind. I don’t agree with that. 

 

Edited by LordChronos
Added some stuff and fixed typos due to iphone auto correct
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17 hours ago, (NSW)Drake_Remorea said:

But when that rng works in your favor and you get a 2.5k plat god roll, then what?

Hmmmm? Would it be fair if everyone was getting god rolls? Suddenly good roll rivens are inexpensive mods that everyone has.

Right now, the rolls are too rare and something can be done to bring them more inline with player desires. This will in turn bring down the market value a notch but more players will be able to get these rivens.

when a player rolls 1 million Kuva and gets literally nothing good or useful, there’s something really wrong with the rng formula they have set up. 

If you put in the effort, you SHOULD get a god roll. Right now the rng system is so bad it’s unrewarding. 

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Rubens are by far one the best systems DE had added to the base game. 

1. Kuva is a constant sink

2. Rivens are always a useful reward item. 

3. Vets can customize their optimum load out. Gone are the days when every difficult mission required a Boltor. You don't see nearly as many duplicate loadouts anymore.

4. Adds some variety to weapon modding

5. Gives weaker/early weapons a chance at being viable.

6. Requires little to no maintenance from DE

7.players can use it to earn plat or trade.

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I am not enthused with rivens but I see the current system fair enough to provide that extra stat push. i am just glad that it is totally optional, with so many ways to farm from (siphons, bounties, NW & incoming disruption) and resistant to being abused, it being tied to RNG, hefty prices and constant clamor for higher kuva drop rates. I totally ignored it until I got nothing to else to do, even then, there are only select instances in the game where improved efficiency is welcomed although not a necessity.

Edited by Alpha_Tango
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4 hours ago, LordChronos said:

when a player rolls 1 million Kuva and gets literally nothing good or useful, there’s something really wrong with the rng formula they have set up. 

If you put in the effort, you SHOULD get a god roll. Right now the rng system is so bad it’s unrewarding

I disagree. If you put in the effort, you should get a chance at a god roll. Right now the rng system is working but not always rewarding.

If you spend enough grind chances are you will get a god roll. However there is always a chance, no matter the effort, you won't get one. That's not for DE to accommodate, just bad luck.

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When I think and have talked with friends about what could be done or what was initially planned with the riven system, I absolutely despise the current system even more.  It is a slot machine that takes hundreds of hours to play, and even after all that spent time you can still not end up with what you want.  Or suppose you do end up with what you want, it can get nerfed next prime access now even.  That, to me, is the worst part.  DE KNOWS that rivens sell for upwards or 40K plat on PC, but they still nerf them as well as doing NOTHING to change the current system of get kuva, roll your riven mod, rinse, repeat.  Oh and only way to get rivens is from sortie disregarding archgun and soon sentinel rivens, which are obtained via 25 arbitration rotations/hello big grind fest there and simaris standing is a pain in the ass to farm as well.  

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The only thing I really dislike about the system is the Kuva grind required to get decent rivens. Like if Kuva was easier to get, or you could lock stats for rivens you want to keep for personal use I'd be perfectly content with the system. Also they'd need to lock the minimum riven dispo to 1 instead of 0.5, it feels wrong to me that a riven can just become worse than basic mods if the devs decide that too many people like using the gun you like using, no matter how much Kuva you've sank into it.

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1 hour ago, WoodedSkate89 said:

Yay, the daily "rework rivens" thread.

Look this topic has been discussed to death.
DE have said why rivens are going to remain the same. These dupe threads get made every day or two.

That's the way it's gonna remain so lets leave it at that

But how will we complain that the devs hate us if we don’t constantly complain about other stuff, thus proving that the devs hate us!

Edited by (NSW)Sk0rp1on
Typos typos typos!
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Ugh, I am not a fan of the current rivens.  Same old stat dump lottery as many other games. I would prefer if the rivens had cool unique effects as opposed to normal ones we can already get. Would be more fun if i could proc a random lightning bolt or summon a cool monster with em.  Would love to see Rivens overhauled with something to get excited about. Min maxing weapons is cool but its always nice to have some sorta unique effects thrown in the mix for a bit of flavor.   

I don't mind the grind really to get kuva. Don't really mind the lottery.  I have gotten skunked many times and rolled god rivens on occasion. I would trade all my godly rolls on my best weapons for something different and unique at this point. Something to make old weapons fun again.  

Edited by bananacat89
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On 2019-08-24 at 7:36 PM, (NSW)Drake_Remorea said:

But when that rng works in your favor and you get a 2.5k plat god roll, then what?

Hmmmm? Would it be fair if everyone was getting god rolls? Suddenly good roll rivens are inexpensive mods that everyone has.

Depends. If it's for a weapon I personally use, then I'm going to keep and use it. If not, then I'll just sell to someone else who will use it. But let me make something clear: No riven should ever be 2.5k plat. No item in the game should have a price tag equivalent to around 130 dollars rl money, or in some riven cases, more. That's just ridiculous.

Would it be fair if everyone could get god rolls? Are you seriously asking me that question? The answer is obviously a resounding yes. What's wrong with good rivens being inexpensive? There shouldn't be anything wrong with that idea. No offense, dude, but you sound like a member of the riven mafia right now. I have my own ideas on how they can keep the system monetized as it is, without having to make a single riven worth 200 dollars of rl cash.

On 2019-08-24 at 6:10 PM, TheBlackishBoy said:

The buffs could've been a great way to create a skill tree for weapons after they have been formad and you pump affinity into them and use kuva to unlock larger nodes on a skill tree or something like that. That would make people use weapons they like after they are maxed and improve them a bit. It would get rid of the rng. Give us some side progression to work on between updates and it would add bragging rights to having tons of affinity or time on a weapon. Instead they made slot machine type mods. Honestly they could even keep the mods and just add a progression system to them so that you pump affinity and kuva into the mod but it wouldn't be rng and it would be a lot more balanced amd could affect weapons in unique and interesting ways with various directions in the mod or skill tree so that you had to choose certain things over other giving more choice to builds it could've been so much more but they just kinda threw something together. I think the idea in itself wasn't terrible but the execution was poor but they can still change it. Warframe is always changing they can revamp the riven system but then a lot of people might get mad because they cant sell mods for tons of plat and they would feel like they wasted time and resources but honestly i think they could change it and it would improve the game as a whole. Honestly mods in general tend to be kinda messed. I mean mods for the most part are ok and stuff but things liek augments and stuff should be based on progression instead of just resources and rng that way players can change their builds without sacrificing mod slots all the time and once again it would give progression to the game and give people stuff to do and they could earn affinity however they want to. But i think they would also need to revisit how affinity is gained so that stealth mutipliers are still viable and usefull but staying and fighting super high level enemies or doing other missions and even being a good support char etc would give affinity so everyone doesn't end up doing the same stuff over and over. Ofc they could but with more sidegrade options it would open the other game modes up a bit and that would decrease burn out. There's so much DE can do with the current game we have they just need to try and make the game a bit more deep not just wide. DE is trying tho and that's better then most companies i just hope they see player feedback and threads so that the game improves the foundations so that the rest of the game improves naturally.

Funny enough, the ideas that I was going to suggest on how to rework the whole system are somewhat similar to what you listed here. I understand that reworking the system is a lot of work, and it's gonna be tougher on them if they decide to do so, especially since they washed themselves of controlling the affair for so long. But if they really want to do right by the players, they can make a rework work. They can keep in mind the copious amounts of plat that players might have spent on their riven and roll that into their progress going forward from the rework.

Oh, and if you can't get a god roll within 200, 300, 400, 500 rolls. Whatever counts as "bad luck" for you. Well, that's a failure on the dev's part. There shouldn't be a system like that, and it absolutely falls on DE to regulate something like that from happening. Remember, they're a group of people who went "oh S#&$! We screwed up!" when they added a feature that let someone reroll kubrow fur colors, and a player pushed the button 200 times.

2 hours ago, WoodedSkate89 said:

Yay, the daily "rework rivens" thread.

Look this topic has been discussed to death.
DE have said why rivens are going to remain the same. These dupe threads get made every day or two.

That's the way it's gonna remain so lets leave it at that

Well, I just wanted to get a better idea of how people feel before I dip my toes into actually writing up a huge post suggesting how to rework rivens. Even if you think the discussion is pointless, or the devs won't do anything about it, discourse is always good for these types of things. It keeps the idea in the devs and players heads. Who knows? Maybe DE will eventually give in once they see enough backlash, or if they see an idea good enough that they think it would be better than what they have currently. You never know. Game Devs are usually a stubborn bunch, but they are open minded as long as you approach them correctly. DE has proven time and again that they are very open-minded, even if a bit stubborn sometimes. They want to keep their players happy, despite any missteps they might take.

59 minutes ago, (NSW)Sk0rp1on said:

But how will we complain that the devs hate us if we don’t constantly complain about other stuff, thus proving that the devs hate us!

I sincerely hope you aren't trying to lump me in with that. That's not my intention nor do I even remotely think that they hate the players. Oh, and to one of your earlier posts, I don't lose sleep over the riven system. However, that doesn't stop me from disliking most parts of it, and wanting it to be improved.

9 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Rubens are by far one the best systems DE had added to the base game. 

1. Kuva is a constant sink

2. Rivens are always a useful reward item. 

3. Vets can customize their optimum load out. Gone are the days when every difficult mission required a Boltor. You don't see nearly as many duplicate loadouts anymore.

4. Adds some variety to weapon modding

5. Gives weaker/early weapons a chance at being viable.

6. Requires little to no maintenance from DE

7.players can use it to earn plat or trade.

1. Absolutely. It could be better, though.
2. No, not always. While rivens can improve lots of weapons and make them viable, there are some weapons which can't be saved as they are. It also depends on the person and which riven you get. There are some rivens that are worth 10-20p and some worth over 3000p. It's generally cheaper to buy a veiled riven if you want to try to get a new riven than to buy cheap unveiled rivens to make a new veiled. You can reroll your own bad rivens into new ones, but does that make it useful? Maybe? That's for other people to decide.

3. That's not because of rivens, mind you. That's imply power creep. We've continuously received new weapons that outpace the Boltor, and the Boltor's use was kind of phased out when they implemented damage 2.0. Iirc, Puncture damage used to completely ignore armor rating making Puncture weapons like the Boltor stupid OP. Now it's all about Slash, Viral, Corrosive, Gas, and in some cases - radiation damage.

4. Absolutely. But the most valuable rivens tend to be pretty cookie cutter.

5. Again, sure. But if they reworked the riven system, who's to say they can't do more for weaker weapons than they already do?

6. This isn't true. We have disposition changes, which DE constantly has to monitor and crunch numbers for. Just because they've chosen not to stick their hands into regulating the riven market somehow doesn't mean they aren't doing a lot of work with the current system.

7. Yes, but in some cases, it's just too much. You also have a large group of people making every effort possible to manipulate and abuse this system. Look into the Riven Mafia. Tactical_potato has a pretty good video about the slimy crap they tried to pull on Semlar and on other players. I'm sure there are countless other stories about them out there.

 

I'm honestly not gonna be able to reply to every single post here, otherwise I'd have a huge wall of text. It seems like opinions are very mixed on the riven system. Some people really like it, some people really hate it, and some are indifferent. I definitely think it's great that some people can derive enjoyment out of the system. So I guess if I had another question or two to pose to those people, it would be these: Do you think the riven system could be improved? If they reworked it to be less of a slot machine, more of a linear progression system (with some rng aspect or two to keep it fresh and keep the riven market alive) that rewarded you for playing with your favorite guns, would that infringe on your enjoyment of it?

Edited by Xehalin
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