How many of you like the current riven system?

[Proffebolter]

I don't like the rivens system to be honest.

What it does is unbalance and make those users looking for a decent game style not possible . I would have liked it, from my point of view. That each user could improve their own weapons, in order to develop their style with comfort. Well, both new and old users can improve the weapons we want, without the need for a damn rive to determine the weapon, and the stats it gives you, which is completely random. And on top of that, if you're not lucky, it can give you bad statistics and spend hundreds of thousands of kuva. And that also breaks the market, because of the rivens. A riven op can cost you more than 5000 platinum. And with that, you can buy more than 10 complete sets (Warframes, weapons, drones, etc.)

We have millions of materials of all kinds, why not use those materials to improve our weapons, without using this riven system?

Edited August 26, 2019 by Proffebolter
more information

[(NSW)Sk0rp1on]

1 hour ago, Xehalin said:

sincerely hope you aren't trying to lump me in with that. That's not my intention nor do I even remotely think that

I wasn’t. Just general trolling.

[DrakeRemorea]

2 hours ago, Xehalin said:

Depends. If it's for a weapon I personally use, then I'm going to keep and use it. If not, then I'll just sell to someone else who will use it. But let me make something clear: No riven should ever be 2.5k plat. No item in the game should have a price tag equivalent to around 130 dollars rl money, or in some riven cases, more. That's just ridiculous.

Some people pay it, they're called god rolls for a reason.

2 hours ago, Xehalin said:

Would it be fair if everyone could get god rolls? Are you seriously asking me that question? The answer is obviously a resounding yes. What's wrong with good rivens being inexpensive?

Mate I started reading that thinking you were joking... a lot, it's not just about the platinum value, but the game value. Enough people complain about the easiness of the game, having +150% crit damage, crit chance, and damage rivens and etc everywhere, the game would be a meme. 

2 hours ago, Xehalin said:

No offense, dude, but you sound like a member of the riven mafia right now. I have my own ideas on how they can keep the system monetized as it is, without having to make a single riven worth 200 dollars of rl cash

No one is putting an actual dollar amount on it. I can get 2500 plat without spending a nickel. Grinding, it's how you get what you want. Even with rivens, although as i said, sometimes you dont. I bought the esteem pack as a newbie, got 170 plat. A month later had 900 and 4 sets ready to sell + mods/arcanes. If people can make a riven worth spending 2.5k, its worth buying 2.5k whether you broke or not.

Not everyone gets what they want, people who really want it buy it with platinum (or complain on the forums :l), people who like the game grind for it. 

[Renginus]

No one can like rng riven system is bullS#&$ but its necessary

[Chicken-Biryani]

Nonetheless we are stuck with it. 

[Xehalin]

50 minutes ago, (NSW)Sk0rp1on said:

I wasn’t. Just general trolling.

Oh, ok. Cool. Carry on then.

40 minutes ago, (NSW)Drake_Remorea said:

Some people pay it, they're called god rolls for a reason.

Mate I started reading that thinking you were joking... a lot, it's not just about the platinum value, but the game value. Enough people complain about the easiness of the game, having +150% crit damage, crit chance, and damage rivens and etc everywhere, the game would be a meme. 

No one is putting an actual dollar amount on it. I can get 2500 plat without spending a nickel. Grinding, it's how you get what you want. Even with rivens, although as i said, sometimes you dont. I bought the esteem pack as a newbie, got 170 plat. A month later had 900 and 4 sets ready to sell + mods/arcanes. If people can make a riven worth spending 2.5k, its worth buying 2.5k whether you broke or not.

Not everyone gets what they want, people who really want it buy it with platinum (or complain on the forums :l), people who like the game grind for it. 

Because they have two choices: They can hope and pray they get the same thing, which isn't even remotely guaranteed. It's a small chance. Another reason it's called a god roll. Or they can grind out/pay for the plat, then trade that to the other player for it.

Game is already technically a meme without rivens. There's no content in this game that needs a riven. One of the most expensive rivens in the game is for the rubico or the lanka. Do you know what people use those for? Eidolon hunting. You go from maybe 2 or 3 shotting limbs to oneshotting limbs with a riven. Does it really make that huge of a difference? Not really. I've done 4x3s and 5x3s where the chroma didn't even use a riven, or used a subpar riven with just one ideal stat.

Oh? No one, huh? What about DE? You know, the guys who sell players platinum? The platinum that has to be bought by someone before it can be in players' hands? Hmmmm? With the exception of the occasional giveaway and starter plat (which can't be traded anyway), platinum isn't free by any means. Someone else still had to pay for it. The baseline dollar amount per plat is set by the buyplat page, then modified by coupons or prime access packs. Again, someone still had to pay for that plat for you to be able to obtain it through trade. It came out of someone's pocket, so it wasn't free.

Please don't try to bring real world philosophy into this. Your stance seems to be that not everybody is deserving of a god roll riven, and if they have the opportunity to get something like that, their worth collapses. Try to remember this is a video game, not the real world. Life is naturally unfair and cruel sometimes, but video games are supposed to be about fun and fairness. The riven system in its current form does not balance effort with reward. It vastly favors luck over effort, which imho, is a huge issue. Now this is a common problem within a lot of Warframe's rng systems, but none are as disproportionate in that balance as riven mods.

With all that said, you've answered neither of my questions, and have just taken to attacking the reasons I don't like the system. Can you honestly say you think the riven system as it is is perfect? To me, it sounds like you don't really value riven mods themselves, and more so the plat value they carry. That's an awful stance to carry, if you ask me.

27 minutes ago, Renginus said:

No one can like rng riven system is bullS#&$ but its necessary

Why do you think it's necessary? There's no level of content in the game that requires rivens. It's the cherry on top of the cake in most cases, unless you have an extremely underpowered weapon. If you think about it, they can't balance the game around rivens at all currently because they'd just be screwing so many players over. Wouldn't it be nice if god roll rivens were more accessible to most players, and they could create difficult content balanced around those rivens? You might actually see less people complain about the easy difficulty. What if we make a system that allows you to turn any weapon into a god weapon, that doesn't revolve around paying 5k plat for just one weapon?

[Kouden]

Am 23.8.2019 um 02:32 schrieb trst:

I find the current system acceptable.

I've long realized that there is zero reason to own a godly riven, let alone rivens for good/meta weapons. Thus the only ones I ever buy from others rarely cost more than 40p and I now have an excuse to gather Kuva to roll it. Plus when I do unveil any good or meta rivens I can freely sell them to the less enlightened.

Warframe also isn't the first game I've even played with rng based grind systems so getting bad rolls on Rivens doesn't even phase me. Seriously the grind to get a "godly" riven is nothing compared to mandatory grinds in other games.

So all in all it's a system that has made my fun weapons more effective in all content that doesn't require more refined set ups and has only made me platinum in selling the good rivens I've gotten and had no use for.

well....i think most players HATE the costs of the rerolls getting more and more expensive without capping at some point. its ridiculous to not cap the costs for it. thats the only bad thing about the riven system

[kapn655321]

Roll each stat separate.

[Kouden]

vor 1 Minute schrieb kapn655321:

Roll each stat separate.

guess that wont ever be possible XD

[WoodedSkate89]

9 hours ago, Xehalin said:

Well, I just wanted to get a better idea of how people feel before I dip my toes into actually writing up a huge post suggesting how to rework rivens. Even if you think the discussion is pointless, or the devs won't do anything about it, discourse is always good for these types of things. It keeps the idea in the devs and players heads. Who knows? Maybe DE will eventually give in once they see enough backlash, or if they see an idea good enough that they think it would be better than what they have currently. You never know. Game Devs are usually a stubborn bunch, but they are open minded as long as you approach them correctly. DE has proven time and again that they are very open-minded, even if a bit stubborn sometimes. They want to keep their players happy, despite any missteps they might take.

 

Ok fair enough actually

[Fluff-E-Kitty]

Rivens are part of the reason iv drifted to other games.

If they where set stats or you had more control over them then I might be more excited by it, but Id rather have a universal riven that I can apply what gun I want it to be for, and then roll stats on or lock in stats with a high kuva cost rather then everything be chance. 

Destiny 2s mechanic of masterworking is pretty nice, and even tho the guns have random rolls, it usually gives you a choice between one or two perks in that roll list so its not as bad.

However rivens are not going anywhere. they may DE too much money from trades. They might change the disposition but they will not cut one of there bigger revenue steams apart. 

[(PSN)thegarada]

It is not good system.

So many layers of RNG.

Most of the objectives to unveil are beyond terrible.

The re-roll system is incredibly bad. Most games allow to re-roll a specific stats. Re-rolling the whole thing is not a good idea. And the odds of getting a good roll are beyond unlikely.

You cannot fix a bad weapon by having a high disposition and vice-versa.

And personally, I feel the system is there to create extreme rarity, that getting anything good is a matter of pure luck. And a well rolled riven on a good weapon is worth thousands of platinum. So only people willing to spend hundred of dollars can afford buying it from someone extremely lucky to get one to drop. It is hard not to see the system as being anything but an exploitation attempt to get extremely rich (or sadly, vulnerable) people to spend real money.

 

 

[Maria_Steele]

Rivens are too costly to get from other players, and the entire process of getting one through a sortie is...ugh. It can be thrilling sometimes (albeit very rarely), a snoozefest on other (even rarer) occasions...

But usually, it's more frustrating than it's worth because I don't have any rivens for anything I actually use and am good with. This means stage 2 and 3 of sorties are one hell of a doozy more often than not. And the sparse few rivens I do get from sorties, I can't use because it demands MR20+ and/or won't use because it's for a weapon I don't like to use or is in fact for a pretty crappy weapon. I still haven't been able to figure out what to do with my useless Cestra Satitio aside from selling it...for credits just to get it out of my inventory. The relationship I have with RNG in this game is one of mutual hatred. 

Thus, getting a riven I'd actually make use of has been a nightmare to do, and I hated every second of trying to do so. People ask for outrageous prices and I can't really afford that, and again, the whole sortie process is a bit of a slog for me.

It's not a system I like to tussle with at all, so I normally don't bother and just do other things. Things I actually like and enjoy. Stuff that doesn't feel like I actually require a riven to do.

[DrakeRemorea]

10 hours ago, Xehalin said:

Oh? No one, huh? What about DE? You know, the guys who sell players platinum? The platinum that has to be bought by someone before it can be in players' hands? Hmmmm? With the exception of the occasional giveaway and starter plat (which can't be traded anyway), platinum isn't free by any means. Someone else still had to pay for it. The baseline dollar amount per plat is set by the buyplat page, then modified by coupons or prime access packs. Again, someone still had to pay for that plat for you to be able to obtain it through trade. It came out of someone's pocket, so it wasn't free.

Did I say it was free? No I said it's obtainable without spending money. I can get 2.5k plat without spending anything. Sure someone else paid for it but I didnt. So maybe don't put words in my mouth?

[Xehalin]

12 hours ago, (NSW)Drake_Remorea said:

Did I say it was free? No I said it's obtainable without spending money. I can get 2.5k plat without spending anything. Sure someone else paid for it but I didnt. So maybe don't put words in my mouth?

It's obtainable without spending money for players so long as others foot the bill and are willing to trade it. I'm not putting words in your mouth. I addressed your point and further explained why the thought is silly to begin with. There is an intrinsic dollar value to any plat you may have. Saying it doesn't might as well as be the same thing as saying it's free.

 

[BlackRoseAngel]

On 2019-08-22 at 5:18 PM, Xehalin said:

Title says it all. I'm thinking of doing a feedback thread of my own in regards to how bad I think the riven system is, why they should change it, and what they can do to change it. Before I do so, I wanted to see what other people think of it. If you like or dislike it, please tell me why. I'd love to know your opinions. Please be honest, too!

 

I'll go first: I honestly hate the current riven system because it doesn't feel like it gives you a proper sense of progression or growth. It's terribly expensive or inexpensive to get into, depending on which weapon you want a riven for and your luck with rivens in general. Getting a riven type you want, or even the stats you want, is gated heavily by a wall of rng. Going back to how expensive it can be, there's also a huge lack of control from DE in terms of the Riven market. This means some people are able to extort large amounts of plat for something they really shouldn't be able to do so with. This becomes even worse when the most expensive rivens are usually the first to get a dispo nerf from DE. I guess I hate everything about it besides the fact that it's a modular system that can empower any weapon to crazy levels. Even Kuva farming is kind of bad and unrewarding, especially if you're unlucky with riven rolls.

It's just another one of DE's many cash cows. It sucks.

[DrakeRemorea]

21 minutes ago, Xehalin said:

I addressed your point and further explained why the thought is silly to begin with.

That would be why I didn't say that either...

18 minutes ago, Xehalin said:

It's obtainable without spending money for players so long as others foot the bill and are willing to trade it. I'm not putting words in your mouth. 

Alright well you just did put words in my mouth again (indirectly)... but umm yes you did before too...

23 hours ago, Xehalin said:

It came out of someone's pocket, so it wasn't free

Right there.

 

21 minutes ago, Xehalin said:

I addressed your point and further explained why the thought is silly to begin with.

Did you though? Because you made up something to respond to too avoid responding to what I really said, which wasn't that plat was free, it was that "No one is putting a dollar value to rivens" not de, not sellers, not buyers. (except you apparently lol). Since platinum is grindable whether it means using plat someone else bought or not, still is possible to get rivens with spending "$200" on the game. Mind you the prime acess is like $50 and gives you 2400 platinum lol. Not $200. 

5 minutes ago, BlackRoseAngel said:

It's just another one of DE's many cash cows. It sucks.

It's not, also what do you expect in a free game? More free stuff? All free games are grind or pay... 

Also not a "cash cow." Rivens were introduced as another marketplace item that can make plat valuable, when you get to a point in the game where there is 100's of the same items floating around, they all plummet prices. Rivens, no two are alike, so the price literally makes the that so preventable. Also they're aren't easy to get so not too many op god rolls. Making these investments worth it. Also it doesn't suck, it's just a grind, either you grind or pay or dont get it. By no means does it suck, it is the way you look at it, and use it.

[Xehalin]

37 minutes ago, (NSW)Drake_Remorea said:

That would be why I didn't say that either...

Alright well you just did put words in my mouth again (indirectly)... but umm yes you did before too...

Right there.

 

Did you though? Because you made up something to respond to too avoid responding to what I really said, which wasn't that plat was free, it was that "No one is putting a dollar value to rivens" not de, not sellers, not buyers. (except you apparently lol). Since platinum is grindable whether it means using plat someone else bought or not, still is possible to get rivens with spending "$200" on the game. Mind you the prime acess is like $50 and gives you 2400 platinum lol. Not $200. 

It's not, also what do you expect in a free game? More free stuff? All free games are grind or pay... 

Also not a "cash cow." Rivens were introduced as another marketplace item that can make plat valuable, when you get to a point in the game where there is 100's of the same items floating around, they all plummet prices. Rivens, no two are alike, so the price literally makes the that so preventable. Also they're aren't easy to get so not too many op god rolls. Making these investments worth it. Also it doesn't suck, it's just a grind, either you grind or pay or dont get it. By no means does it suck, it is the way you look at it, and use it.

No, I didn't say you said it was free. I was stating it's not free because there is no ingame way of actually generating plat. All the plat in the economy was bought by someone else or earned as a giveaway. This is part of what gives platinum actual value, not rivens. Are you serious? DE doesn't say there's a dollar value attached to plat? Then what do they use to determine their pricing on platinum? If something costing real money doesn't attach a real money value to it, then what does?

I don't even know why I'm continuing to argue with you. I'm really sick of you spinning this stupid argument in circles and derailing the thread. This has absolutely nothing to do with what my original post was about, and again, you're just cherrypicking one reason why I don't like the riven system to start an argument. Actually, you know what? I just looked through your post history, and you were still mastery 6 as of Sunday. You are literally still a baby tenno, yet you're trying to argue with other people about an endgame item that people drop large fortunes of kuva into and still turn up empty handed. Holy crap. You're not even a member of the riven mafia like I thought you might possibly be. It's just straight up ignorance on your part.

Either way, I'm done with you. Come back when you've played the game longer than a month or two, have an actual taste in what rivens are like, and aren't just gonna derail my thread.

Edited August 27, 2019 by Xehalin

[SpawnTDK]

i think the riven system is from the lowest pits of the rng hell. the system is a way to random to be any good.

and once you get a good riven, it's for a crap weapon or you sink endless hours of kuva farming. 
 

i would prefer real raidcontent for endgame ... not "fashionframe" (lulz) or riven/kuva farming

[Kouden]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb SpawnTDK:

i think the riven system is from the lowest pits of the rng hell. the system is a way to random to be any good.

and once you get a good riven, it's for a crap weapon or you sink endless hours of kuva farming. 
 

i would prefer real raidcontent for endgame ... not "fashionframe" (lulz) or riven/kuva farming

amen on that tenno. may the void hear our call for a change

[DrakeRemorea]

12 hours ago, Xehalin said:

Are you serious? DE doesn't say there's a dollar value attached to plat? Then what do they use to determine their pricing on platinum? If something costing real money doesn't attach a real money value to it, then what does?

You're too ignorant to understand... I'll say it one last time.

There isn't a dollar value on plat, when buying items in game via trades. Because the amount of plat you are using doesn't directly affect an amount you've spent on the game, even if it means others have, you haven't. You can have spent 0 on the game and have 2500 platinum. You're not going to understand this again I assume and say the same stupid things.

[Morthal]

^ 2 very different points being made, absolute madness. 
Time is money. Argument solved!

So how does Riven and Kuva sit with me? It's my end game, the last reason to bother with Warframe anymore. The Kuva cost at maximum per roll is too high, should be reduced to 1200-1500 at most per roll. The system in place is very much surprise mechanics but it also helps generate Platinum sales and invigorates the market with the same. Meanwhile collectors like myself who have nothing else to do, can reroll our 'soon to be' 120 rivens until we're happy. 

But then what? What to do once you've got all them Pookimans? That's where the Riven system I think, needs some improvement. What the hell do we do when we've got all the god rolls and no content 😕 !?

[Midas]

What the man above me said ^^

[KnightOwl_]

Rivers should be less about raw damage boosts and more about interesting weapon builds or changing how they play.   Less +CRIT and damage and more + mag size, reload, +/- zoom, so on.  So like a rubico riven that increases mag size to 20, but has only 1.5 zoom and a fast reload.  You just turned a sniper rifle into an m14.  Stuff like that.  

[Xehalin]

10 hours ago, Morthal said:

^ 2 very different points being made, absolute madness. 
Time is money. Argument solved!

So how does Riven and Kuva sit with me? It's my end game, the last reason to bother with Warframe anymore. The Kuva cost at maximum per roll is too high, should be reduced to 1200-1500 at most per roll. The system in place is very much surprise mechanics but it also helps generate Platinum sales and invigorates the market with the same. Meanwhile collectors like myself who have nothing else to do, can reroll our 'soon to be' 120 rivens until we're happy. 

But then what? What to do once you've got all them Pookimans? That's where the Riven system I think, needs some improvement. What the hell do we do when we've got all the god rolls and no content 😕 !?

Thanks, at least someone gets it. Inb4 nO ItS NoT. He just wants to argue over stupid S#&$.

Well, it depends on what you mean by get all the god rolls? You can't really get a god roll for every weapon because of inventory limitations, and each weapon you decide to farm for just makes the task even harder. I guess if you get a god roll for just every weapon you want instead of every single weapon, it's possible, but not something I'd really wish on anybody. Except maybe our mastery 6 friend here so he can get an idea on how in over his head he is and how ridiculous the whole system is.

Would you think it be better to get rid of the rng influences on the system and instead rely on a progression system similar akin to affinity?

 

So basically, the idea I've been working on goes like this:
New syndicate under Samodeus. Riven cards are now called Apex cards. You pay rep for a veiled Apex card. You slot that into whatever weapon you want the Apex to be for. Unveil it by doing the challenge, it becomes a card that matches the weapon it's slotted in. Challenge has to be relevant to and relevant to the weapon the veiled Apex card is inserted into. No headshot challenges for something like the fulmin, for example. The new card has no stat lines and is basically blank to start with. You have to go out and earn stat tokens, and they can be earned the same way that current rivens are. These tokens are called rivens. The stat you get on your new riven is random and can be rerolled using Kuva.

Desire system implemented when rerolling rivens, allowing you to pick up to 3 desired stats that will have a higher chance of being selected while rerolling. Using the desire system increases the kuva cost to reroll, increasing for every stat you pick. Every 10 rerolls allows you to lock out a stat from the pool, reducing how many stats you have to roll against. Every milestone you reach on rerolls after the first(10 is the first), reduces the lock requirement by one. So your first lock would be at 10, your second at 19, third at 27, fourth at 34, so on and so forth, until you reach the requirement cap of every 5 rerolls.

Rivens are tradeable, veiled Apex cards are tradeable, but once an apex is unveiled or a riven is inserted into an apex card, it becomes bound to the player. Rivens inserted into an apex card become bound to that apex. Your new apex card starts out with 1 available stat line, which is determined by the riven you insert into it. Valued stat rivens are sold for the most plat, but there's a cap on how much plat they can be traded for. No other items can be inserted into the trade to bypass this cap. I was thinking a cap of around 350-500 plat.

Endo system is not used. When you use the weapon in a mission with the apex card inserted, it gains exp that powers up the inserted stats starting with the first line until you reach a milestone, unlocking a second line, and then eventually a third line. Stat %s operate on a level system, starting at level 0 and raising with each level. Outside of missions, you can redistribute exp between inserted rivens, leveling each one up accordingly, and determining which stat is highest or lowest or if they're all even. You can substitute and/or supplement exp with kuva and focus. Disposition determines how much exp it takes to raise the individual stats to the next level, on a curve, as well as what # a riven stat starts at on that weapon. The higher the stats go, the more points they cost to increase. Max disposition weapons have significantly less point costs, making it much, much easier to build say a 400% damage, 300% multishot, 200% cd apex vs a 1 disposition weapon. Max disposition riven stats might start at 30 or 50%, while a 1 disposition weapon might start at 5-15.

The range of stats available are also wider, allowing for a greater customization of a weapon. Things like changing the projectile type, making the weapon silent, or increasing zoom effects while reducing the level become available. You can go higher than 4 stat lines, but every stat line you include past the 4th has a penalty effect on all the stats, reducing them down.

I think my idea is good because it increases the longevity of the system, gives more power back to the players in determining the build for their weapon and getting it to the point they want it to be, it still keeps rivens as a commodity you can sell for plat without making it too ridiculous (and in some cases, exploitable), and the system gives you a lot more freedom with your weapons than before while still allowing DE to balance certain weapons with dispositions. They can even start balancing around rivens, too, because they're a lot more accessible to the normal player.

Edited August 28, 2019 by Xehalin