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Maybe is time to update the game?

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Wait? Someone I dont know or care about stopped playing?  When did this happen ??

 

Oh ,wait ...my care-meter just broke.....  o.O

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4 hours ago, Ephemiel said:

Time is the issue here, yet other developers with lesser known games, less resources and less employees are able to deliver more content, ON TIME, without falling behind.

Thats a lie, i asked for examples and got 0. 

6 hours ago, Ephemiel said:

Clearly they barely have the will to work on Warframe at all if the content droughts are any indication.

Every single game out there has it. 

6 hours ago, Ephemiel said:

There's the problem, way too many players now that want everything in easy mode, big flashy moves with huge damage and want everything in a silver platter.

No longer do people want to EARN what they can get in games, they just want everything to be given.

No. You are the problem, you play CASUAL game and complain that its not hardcore. 

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Uhh, not only you wrote such a post. Do not forget that DE are people like you and they are not robots with a cloud of ideas in their heads. Well, what would you suggest now? Which direction? No, I'm not saying that "DE is the perfect company." Recently, it’s already starting to enrage me when players say, “Why don't DE add anything? No content,” but at the same time, these players themselves do not offer anything or even try. So I just stopped making comments about the lack of content

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vor 10 Stunden schrieb kuciol:

Would new content every 2 months be nice? Yea sure but it simply not realistic to expect that.

In the first years of Warframe we hd nearly monthly satisfying events with leaderboards which motivated clans and players to play. We had void keys who motivated to play a mission as long as possible.  We got regular small quests and sometimes greater. 
This as a whole stopped with the new rpg / casual direction of the game: cetus, fortuna, ...

Cetus and Fortuna are totaly interesting for new players, yes. 
But for most older players they are not interesting, challenging or rewarding. Mining and fishing are not what Warframe was about in the past 4-5 years...

With Cetus began a cut in the content releases which is frustrating for us veterans because this new and rarely released content is casual focused...

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1 minute ago, Doc.Pyro said:

In the first years of Warframe we hd nearly monthly satisfying events with leaderboards which motivated clans and players to play. We had void keys who motivated to play a mission as long as possible.  We got regular small quests and sometimes greater. 
This as a whole stopped with the new rpg / casual direction of the game: cetus, fortuna, ...

Cetus and Fortuna are totaly interesting for new players, yes. 
But for most older players they are not interesting, challenging or rewarding. Mining and fishing are not what Warframe was about in the past 4-5 years...

With Cetus began a cut in the content releases which is frustrating for us veterans because this new and rarely released content is casual focused...

Thats a problem with players themselves, you were interested BECAUSE you were new not because the content was interesting. Take off your rose tinted glasses and check how it really looked like.

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vor 5 Minuten schrieb Doc.Pyro:

In the first years of Warframe we hd nearly monthly satisfying events with leaderboards which motivated clans and players to play. We had void keys who motivated to play a mission as long as possible.  We got regular small quests and sometimes greater. 
This as a whole stopped with the new rpg / casual direction of the game: cetus, fortuna, ...

Cetus and Fortuna are totaly interesting for new players, yes. 
But for most older players they are not interesting, challenging or rewarding. Mining and fishing are not what Warframe was about in the past 4-5 years...

With Cetus began a cut in the content releases which is frustrating for us veterans because this new and rarely released content is casual focused...

Fully agree with this. Since PoE the game changed, and I'm not sure if it changes for the better. (Looking at the forums, it doesn't seem to be a good one)

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18 minutes ago, (XB1)GaussPrime said:

Fully agree with this. Since PoE the game changed, and I'm not sure if it changes for the better. (Looking at the forums, it doesn't seem to be a good one)

And i dont. The game was trash back in the days, the only reason you felt it was better is because you were new. It was always casual but you just sucked, you didnt have most toys, you still had something to work towards to but now you have it and you see things as they really are. And please dont make "forums" argument. Most people that come here are whiners and there isnt so many if you bother to check names, its always the same people circle jerking. 

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Posted (edited)

you PC people think you have it bad... Console consequently get no more updates for THE REST OF THIS YEAR. We have it much worse, you PC people need to humble down a bit.

I spent my entire summer playing warframe really shallowy, login and log out. You know there's a problem when my most played game was a absolute bore and a chore to even start up over the summer, now i gotta head back to school unsatisfied and nothing to look forward to at all until atleast next year spring for us console people.

the most common answer is 'just play another game' when in truth, if you think about it, you shouldn't even be saying that if it's someones favorite game. Someones most played game is someones most played game, they should not be running to OTHER GAMES for entertaiment.

dissapointed and unsatisfied to say the least.

Edited by (PS4)Kamil-the-KamiKa
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5 hours ago, 844448 said:

See this statement here? You play because you're chasing for rewards, or what people say as "loot-whore" mentality. You only do something because there's a reward behind it, not because you want to play it

If DE one day, release a content that is impossible to do solo even with full forma and meta weapons with rivens, needs a lot of heavy and extensive communication with your teammates and require perfect execution but no rewards whatsoever, will you play it?

You are aware that if people are only playing for the Extrinsic rewards, that probably means that there's something wrong with how rewarding the game is Intrinsically?

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vor 7 Minuten schrieb kuciol:

And i dont. The game was trash back in the days, the only reason you felt it was better is because you were new. It was always casual but you just sucked, you didnt have most toys, you still had something to work towards to but now you have it and you see things as they really are. And please dont make "forums" argument. Most people that come here are whiners and there isnt so many if you bother to check names, its always the same people circle jerking. 

I can only speak for myself, but I was always at the apex of mr. rank, obtained content, overformad builds, etc. Well, at least since U13 or 14 but that's like forever by now.
What kept me playing was the old void, alliance conflicts, raids, bimonthly community driven events, big updates every 3 months and tiny ones every week. This obviously changed. but i don't think it happened with PoE I think it started before that, during the Wait Within and the removal of old endurance runs in the void.

And maybe I'm retarded but I don't see how bringing back endgame content for wf is hard. Embrace the screwed up damage scaling mechanic, start the endurance game mode around lvl 150-200 and don't spawn nullies (so we can use frames with abilities and cc, instead of just going Inaros and melee spin). Now put in rewards like Kuva, veiled rivens, weapon skins, primed mods, and hey how about vaulted prime parts. There you go vets will play the game again, because they can test out their 12 forma trash frame against challenging enemies (bullet sponges).

Now, i don't want to respond to each of the numerous responds I'll be getting telling me that bullet sponges aren't challenging, they're tedious so I'm gonna add this. While I'll partly agree, the problem I see with that statement is that it shoots down the only solution to the endgame question I personally see. I'm all for designing more enemies like Nox or the Helmet dudes that disable your abilities, but instead of those amazing enemies we are getting Kuva drones and Nullies, that take object damage, are tiny targets, and force you into melee.

And this idea of a "vet" mode could be adapted to all the new modes they've released ever since the rework of the acquisition of prime parts. Infested salvage, defection, onslaught, excavation, disruption could all have fixed nodes and tiles to be played on. This would also fix my main issue with arbitration, if it's not Excavation or Survival I'm not interested, if it's against Nullies and wants me to go Inaros I'm not interested. Or to bring in some science of motivation, give the players more autonomy to choose what they want to play, instead of forcing them to play that one game mode they don't like against a faction they don't like.

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2 minutes ago, Radagosh said:

And maybe I'm retarded but I don't see how bringing back endgame content for wf is hard.

Its not "hard" its just retarded to make and maintain content for 0,01% of people. It takes a lot of time and in the end you will be done with it after a month.

6 minutes ago, Radagosh said:

What kept me playing was the old void, alliance conflicts, raids, bimonthly community driven events, big updates every 3 months and tiny ones every week.

Because you were newer, updates were not very big and game was a lot simpler. They felt bigger because they were bigger relatively to the rest of the game. Again the content you speak of was total trash that nobody wanted to play, those few that did are irrelevant. There is a reason why they were removed. You think devs just cant wait to remove feature that they worked their asses off to produce? Thats just nostalgia kicking in.

3 minutes ago, Radagosh said:

Or to bring in some science of motivation, give the players more autonomy to choose what they want to play, instead of forcing them to play that one game mode they don't like against a faction they don't like.

That mentality killed so many games.... Giving players a choice only makes them burn out faster, always. 

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28 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

You are aware that if people are only playing for the Extrinsic rewards, that probably means that there's something wrong with how rewarding the game is Intrinsically?

ekhmm no, that called being a human. There isnt a single reward that will last forever. There will always be a time when you will get enough.

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18 hours ago, (XB1)Skippy575 said:

Are Railjack and the New War not content then?

if you consider that it may be 40 min play (since i dont remember someone play all quests all over again) than yeah, one may say it is not content. also they are so up to date with storyline that when new quest come out i forgoth what was b4. remember the war within? it was good, but not 1 year of delay 'good'.  as dw3t satated adding weapon and frame is not content (to a degree for me). doing same missions for lot of time all over again tend to burn out veteran players, distruption on other hand is bit refreshing. all in all of this it was 20-80 in favor of content to be farmed in game than storyline. not to mention there is no coherent timeline of story line. hope that new space content, one with ships railjack, would be good and refreshing to warframe. 

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vor 44 Minuten schrieb kuciol:

Its not "hard" its just retarded to make and maintain content for 0,01% of people. It takes a lot of time and in the end you will be done with it after a month.

That's why I suggested rewards you keep wanting, such as Kuva and Rivens. You can't be done with it in a month if the game mode gives you things you can sell or use to get stronger. Just look at Kuva floods and siphons as an example, I personally hate the gameplay aspect of them, but I still do them after 2 years of them being out, because they help me getting stronger.

Also I wouldn't say 0.01%, I believe most people would like and enjoy a bit of a challenge once in a while, epsecially if the rewards are right. Just look at Arbitrations, they are played by many players not just the elite of the elite.

Even if it was only the top 1% Blizzard back in 2007 already adressed this idea of, in their case it was raids being exclusive to the best of the best, but instead they were working as a goal for newer players to reach and thus boosting WoWs numbers.

vor 44 Minuten schrieb kuciol:

Because you were newer, updates were not very big and game was a lot simpler. They felt bigger because they were bigger relatively to the rest of the game. Again the content you speak of was total trash that nobody wanted to play, those few that did are irrelevant. There is a reason why they were removed. You think devs just cant wait to remove feature that they worked their asses off to produce? Thats just nostalgia kicking in.

I was new during u9 not u13, back then the monthly updates included the rework of the whole damage system and introduction of new tile sets and frames at the same time. They also reworked the whole melee system and introduced the void, modding, vaults, boss reworks, graphical overhoals etc. back then.

I'd argue against the game being simpler back in the day. Modding was a skill since we had less mods and couldn't just use a fixed formula like nowadays. Endo was scarce and so were credits, focus was such a pain they nerfed the spawnsystem just to balance the only decent way to farm it, so the way of acquiring these ressources has become incredibly fast with the addition of arenas, index, arbitrations and eso.So in case of ressource acquisition I'd say the game has become smaller.

The argument that raids and alliance conflicts are trash nobody wanted or wants to play can be used on about 90% of the star chart, lunaro, conclave, SO, defection, disruption, archwing, any sortie that lasts longer than 20minutes, syndicates, bounties, mining, fishing, eidolons, ropalolyst, profit taker, mommy spooder. I'd still never argue for the removal of any of it, since some people seam to enjoy those gamemodes.

Now if you want to make the argument of spaghetti code making raids a bugridden mistake. Yes, I agree like every time I bring up this point, the removal of JV was justified Lor however, never experienced the bugs that people seem to like bringing up, so there we had an instance of DE removing content for no reason. On that point, I also don't quite understand why Nightwave and Alerts couldn't coexist or why they have not put any vaulted primes back into the void. (Well here I only see one explanation and that's money, which is fine I guess)

vor 44 Minuten schrieb kuciol:

That mentality killed so many games.... Giving players a choice only makes them burn out faster, always. 

Can you give me an example with an explanation please, because I don't really know one. I understand where you're coming from though, the idea of minmaxing your gear and mission to grind it out as fast as possible and I see the possible issue here. If we go back to the Vauban, Nekros, Trin, Nova/Loki Surv meta or the Mesa, Mag, Trin, Nova/Frost one, we have some half decent(because the tile was fixed) examples. But in the end wouldn't these people still grind their lifes away even in the current system?

All I personally want is to go for a grineer survival arbitration when I'm in the mood for it and online, instead of praying to RnGsus for the stars to align whenever I feel like playing warframe.  Which sadly isn't often anymore.

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7 hours ago, 844448 said:

See this statement here? You play because you're chasing for rewards, or what people say as "loot-whore" mentality. You only do something because there's a reward behind it, not because you want to play it

If DE one day, release a content that is impossible to do solo even with full forma and meta weapons with rivens, needs a lot of heavy and extensive communication with your teammates and require perfect execution but no rewards whatsoever, will you play it?

I am a player who loves to do long runs on Mot or Kuva survival even if I don't run for Riven. If I have to do something I do it without worrying about how long it takes. But why do I have to make a modality that gives me a totally useless resource once I exhaust the weapons that use it? Why do I have to do that totally useless thing for me and the "content in play"? Where is the purpose and the fun of staying there and waiting for the guy to kill and then moving on, because this is the way to wait for someone to spawn and kill him, the others can totally ignore them.

Warframe is a looter shooter not like Diablo or other titles where enemies drop weapons or particular things and you can use them right away but you have to make the farm then craft, if you take away the reward where the looter is?

There is a reward in every game mode on Warframe and should be played just for that. If they play a difficult game to really play as a team, where's the problem? There is no problem in me playing something that doesn't give me anything useful as the Conclave may be today, but this reasoning cannot ruin the rest of the game.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, kuciol said:

ekhmm no, that called being a human. There isnt a single reward that will last forever. There will always be a time when you will get enough.

If you're not aware, Extrinsic rewards are things like loot - rewards basically - and Intrinsic rewards is the rewards of or from playing the game itself. In other words, fun. What most developers who aren't greedy scumbags like EA will probably tell you 'Intrinsic rewards are more important, and Extrinsic rewards are what we use to encourage people to go towards what is most likely to give them those Intrinsic rewards. Discussing Balance, many games with progression systems will start you off with easy weapons and gradually, by drip-feeding more advanced weaponry that happens to be more powerful but also need more skill, lead you away from the less engaging 'W+M1' weapons and towards strategies and weapons that are more complex and fun.

Example: DOOM 2016 starts you off with the Pistol. This weapon is pretty much the most reliable thing you have access to in the game because unlike everything else, it is free from ammo restrictions - free from one of the most important aspects of the gameplay - and has decent range. And it then introduces you to the Combat Shotgun, which requires you get up close and personal with enemies for the bigger power payout and introduces ammo management, and then offers the alt-fire options which either introduce deeper ammo-management (the three-shot burst) or juggling aim and self-damage with the grenade launcher. Then over time it brings in more weapons with more ammo pools and more required skills (like precision aim with the Gauss cannon since it's such a slow fire), and then you start getting guns that share ammo pools. As the game gives you more power, it's also stringing you along to put more into the game. It does de-emphasise some (as you get access to longer-ranged guns and more aggressive enemies, the skill of being able to identify how to close the gap on enemies becomes less important), but the number it introduces outweighs the ones it de-emphasises.

Warframe, on the other hand, starts you out with Semi-auto pistols, Assault rifles or a bow or Kunai that has travel time and projectile drop, along with energy management and manipulating abilities for maximum effect. Then, over time, it strips away all these skills. Aiming with guns? You can get Ignis Wraith. Energy Management? You get Zenurik or just straight up kill so much stuff that you'll have enough energy orbs lying around to keep you charged for ages. Manipulating ability use? You can buff your abilities to the point of global effectiveness.

It often feels like, in Warframe, the more skill something needs the weaker it is. That's not a good thing, because skill encourages engagement - engagement leads to intrinsic reward - intrinsic rewards lead people to enjoy the game for itself.

Edited by Loza03
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vor 1 Stunde schrieb kuciol:

And i dont. The game was trash back in the days, the only reason you felt it was better is because you were new. It was always casual but you just sucked, you didnt have most toys, you still had something to work towards to but now you have it and you see things as they really are. And please dont make "forums" argument. Most people that come here are whiners and there isnt so many if you bother to check names, its always the same people circle jerking. 

I play since the beta. I was definetly not „new“ after a while. My clan and me too loved these events. Events which always gave us good rewards plus a bit of lore. We always gone for long runs. The challenge was to stay as long as possible and it was definitely fun for us. At some point (the start of Cetus / cinemetic development) they cut away this challenging part with the events. This is a gap which never was closed. They casualed the content more and more. The Void keys were deleted and now we have those relics.

This has nothing to do with pink classes or whining. The game itself also was no trash in the early years otherwise the veterans wouldnt have stayed for so long.

Newer player tend to have zero understanding for the old players because they don‘t know and understand what was good about the game in the first years. 

You are disqualify yourself by your offensive argumentation and your attacks against the people here who are saying their opinion. 
 

It is okay you have a different opinion but you are wrong if you think it would be ok to attack people. 

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29 minutes ago, XzWasPzX said:

DE must grow, time to hire new employees, a lot...

It might help but they probably can't support new employees. I hope this can change.

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22 minutes ago, Radagosh said:

That's why I suggested rewards you keep wanting, such as Kuva and Rivens. You can't be done with it in a month if the game mode gives you things you can sell or use to get stronger. Just look at Kuva floods and siphons as an example, I personally hate the gameplay aspect of them, but I still do them after 2 years of them being out, because they help me getting stronger.

There will be a point where those also will be irrelevant. Hell there already are people complaining that they dont want it.

22 minutes ago, Radagosh said:

Also I wouldn't say 0.01%, I believe most people would like and enjoy a bit of a challenge once in a while, epsecially if the rewards are right. Just look at Arbitrations, they are played by many players not just the elite of the elite.

Arbitrations are deemed to easy and not consider endgame by vast majority of those complaining. Thats where the major problem lies, what is considered hard enough? Those that complain the most wont be satisfied even by lvl 500 eximus stronghold with sentients. The gap between mid tier players and the best is just to wide.

26 minutes ago, Radagosh said:

I was new during u9 not u13, back then the monthly updates included the rework of the whole damage system and introduction of new tile sets and frames at the same time. They also reworked the whole melee system and introduced the void, modding, vaults, boss reworks, graphical overhoals etc. back then

I did read patch notes of u6 - u14, the only difference was that you got normal and prime frames in the same update. The amount of content within 3 months wasnt much diferent, yes it was more but not by a huge margin. Now you have a problem on how many new systems you can implement before it becomes clusterf..k, it kinda already is to be honest.

28 minutes ago, Radagosh said:

Can you give me an example with an explanation please, because I don't really know one.

The best one was already mentioned, WoW. They tried to appeal to everyone, make things more accessible and all they did was making game for noone. Another good examples are Blade and Soul, Mu online. There are more but you can check their forums for a proof. If you want to have any meaningful choice that means you must be able to make a bad one, once you remove that possibility it becomes meaningless. 

8 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

If you're not aware, Extrinsic rewards are things like loot - rewards basically - and Intrinsic rewards is the rewards of or from playing the game itself.

And it is but you are already past the point of it having any significance. Thats why im telling you that you wont be ever satisfied unless they will change the core gameplay but that means basically making another game.

5 minutes ago, Doc.Pyro said:

I play since the beta. I was definetly not „new“ after a while. My clan and me too loved these events. Events which always gave us good rewards plus a bit of lore. We always gone for long runs. The challenge was to stay as long as possible and it was definitely fun for us.

It all revolves around hours played. I have about 930 hours played and i still enjoy the game but there will be a point when i will just stop. 

7 minutes ago, Doc.Pyro said:

This has nothing to do with pink classes or whining. The game itself also was no trash in the early years otherwise the veterans wouldnt have stayed for so long.

Compared to today? Yes it was trash. 

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10 minutes ago, Doc.Pyro said:

Newer player tend to have zero understanding for the old players because they don‘t know and understand what was good about the game in the first years. 

Oh btw i know, i was old player in many games, i play path of exile since closed beta , i spent 10 years in tibia and 6 in Mu online but im not trying to bend reality. 

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hace 4 minutos, dw3t dijo:

It might help but they probably can't support new employees. I hope this can change.

This must change. Time between releases cant take so much...

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, kuciol said:

Compared to today? Yes it was trash. 

Are you serious? What was the game is what it has become today. All that we play today except PoE and Fortuna are exactly the things that were released in those years 2015/2016. There were no additions to reach the 2015/2016 update level. All the most popular quests (Second Dream, The Silver Groove, Inaros, Octavia, Harrow, The War Within) have been added in 1 year. Now for something you have to wait 2 years is it normal? The game is appreciated thanks to the innovations introduced 3/4 years ago not today.

Edited by dw3t
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vor 3 Minuten schrieb kuciol:

Arbitrations are deemed to easy and not consider endgame by vast majority of those complaining. Thats where the major problem lies, what is considered hard enough? Those that complain the most wont be satisfied even by lvl 500 eximus stronghold with sentients. The gap between mid tier players and the best is just to wide.

I myself wouldn't call it fully endgame either, while the rewards are there, it is very rewarding with both Endo and a NPC store. However I'm missing the challenge during the first 60-80 minutes, depending on the faction, that's why I suggested an option to start the lvl at around 150-200 to speed things up in relation to the rewars going up (maybe a 1.5 - 2x increase of everything, a system not too different from the already existing dark sector nodes.)

vor 2 Minuten schrieb kuciol:

The best one was already mentioned, WoW. They tried to appeal to everyone, make things more accessible and all they did was making game for noone. Another good examples are Blade and Soul, Mu online. There are more but you can check their forums for a proof. If you want to have any meaningful choice that means you must be able to make a bad one, once you remove that possibility it becomes meaningless.

From what I've heard WoW focused too much on the casual side and made rewards too accessible, which turned the vets away from the game. But if we follow the logic of removing player choice wouldn't that also mean we should rework Fissures to only rotate 1 possibility per Tier? Maybe instead of going for a full fixed node setup we could instead expand the player choice by having up to three Arbitrations to choose from.

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2 hours ago, Doc.Pyro said:

In the first years of Warframe we hd nearly monthly satisfying events with leaderboards which motivated clans and players to play. We had void keys who motivated to play a mission as long as possible.  We got regular small quests and sometimes greater. 

We still have events. Fractures and ghoul purges are both on going events. Maybe count NW as an event.

Void keys were pain. You either got garbage or a useless prime part. It was complete rng fest and farming anything was a pain.

Quests weren't regular. At all. And also those quest were pretty low effort. Just some exterminate mission while someone is talking to you.

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