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Maybe is time to update the game?

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1 minute ago, HIGHDAMAGE said:

well i can't speak for everyone wont make that mistake, but seriously thinking about it forced team play in order to progress will nerff our power creep

Forced team play won't nerf our power creep, it's a making for toxic environment. We already have this on tridolon where people berate others for making a small mistake just because it wastes a few seconds of their 5x3 and elitist requirements where you must have 100 tridolon captures to join so can you guarantee there will be no problems like this?

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11 minutes ago, 844448 said:

Look at how many mode with intrinsic rewards we have like you said such as disruption, orb mothers, still not played much because there's no good rewards that they consider rewarding so what can you say about that?

In the orbs case - they frankly, aren't. Profit Taker is a mess that requires its own thread to unpack, and the Exploiter Orb is effectively a setpiece - a well designed set piece, but there's very limited actual gameplay going on in it. Your powers are useless, as are your weapons for about 90% of the fight.

Disruption, on the other hand, is more complicated. Whilst it takes many great steps towards dealing with the issues, the core fundamental problem of 'the player literally has no end to how powerful they are' remains pretty much intact, and whilst the does a pretty neat sidestep by basically producing two channels of power to go down which is absolutely a very clever way to avoid the problem, that's all it is - a sidestep that avoids the problem rather than dealing with it. It therefore has to struggle with the fact that players functionally don't have an end point, and must ultimately resort to ability nullification. A much more reasonable take on the subject given that demolysts are mini-bosses, but at the end of the day DE still can't make something tough enough to build a mode around without completely turning off a core system.

 

There's a psychological phenomena that says that people tend to not quite understand exactly what they want till they have it, or something close to it. People really like disruption and are asking for more rewards for it. But the question must be asked: is their demand for more rewards them actually asking for more stuff, or are they asking for more disruption through the lens of more rewards for it to give them an excuse to go back to it? Because that's what extrinsic rewards are for - the breadcrumbs to lead you into doing the fun, intrinsically rewarding things.

Calling in Breath of the Wild again, because it is a really good example of this kind of thing - the Silver enemies drop the best loot: gems you can exchange for the best armour or just a big rupee payout to make it so you're better supplied, and the Lynels/Hinoxes drop some of the best weapons in the game - the stronger they are the better, as well as monster parts for great potions and/or the aforementioned rupee payout. But because the best loot is found behind the strongest monsters, you need to get better (which in BotW often means more creative) at the game in order to get it. And, since the better you get at BotW means the more options you have for fun, the Extrinsic reward of shiny loot leads players of BotW towards more Intrinsic rewards. As for what the game thinks of pursuing extrinsic rewards for their own sake? Well, spoilers for the postgame of BotW, specifically the Korok hunt.

Spoiler

Image result for hetsu's gift

It's poop.

The game thinks that extrinsic rewards for their own sake are poop. And it's right.

 

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Just now, 844448 said:

Forced team play won't nerf our power creep, it's a making for toxic environment. We already have this on tridolon where people berate others for making a small mistake just because it wastes a few seconds of their 5x3 and elitist requirements where you must have 100 tridolon captures to join so can you guarantee there will be no problems like this?

eidolons ain't forced team play to progres think u mistaken with speedrun

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Just now, Ephemiel said:

By faster, i mean releasing them faster btw, not content that's faster. Warframe isn't a tiny little indie game, it's a game by a company with enough money to make a full Con and yet it takes a year and a half since them teasing the new two big patches to the release [maybe, we don't know if any delay will happen between now and then]? Can you imagine Blizzard at Blizzcon hinting the new patch for WoW and having them wait a year and a half for it? They'd be getting crucified to a level that would nearly reach the "do you guys not have phones?" backlash.

Release them faster? Are you okay if they release it tomorrow and turns out has many bugs in it? Unless you won't berate DE for releasing buggy content, they wouldn't release it

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1 minute ago, HIGHDAMAGE said:

eidolons ain't forced team play to progres think u mistaken with speedrun

If you're not some kind of hardcore min-max, a solid team play is highly needed and speedrun like that dictates a perfect teamwork so in a sense, a mandatory team play to speedrun it

Can you guarantee there will be no berating on forced team play? Trials back then were very toxic and a lot pointing fingers at each other if there's a mistake

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, 844448 said:

And where's your answer on faster content?

For me with NW at least it should be like this:

1 episode per week(since it's like 10 lines of voice acting and a fixed "captura" scene)

 No seasons, make it like a second daily tribute and add rewards as we go.

 Every second week a mission that has to do with the current episode and every 4 weeks a mission fighting the boss of the episode and conclusion.(so 4 episodes per story) 

 Keep the current standing system and to be able to buy rewards you might lost with creds.

 So in conclusion smaller episodes but more frequent.It's not that hard to implement and can keep a player for more than 1 month.

Edited by DeathDweller

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7 minutes ago, Ephemiel said:

By faster, i mean releasing them faster btw, not content that's faster. Warframe isn't a tiny little indie game, it's a game by a company with enough money to make a full Con and yet it takes a year and a half since them teasing the new two big patches to the release [maybe, we don't know if any delay will happen between now and then]? Can you imagine Blizzard at Blizzcon hinting the new patch for WoW and having them wait a year and a half for it? They'd be getting crucified to a level that would nearly reach the "do you guys not have phones?" backlash.

indeed lol they sending ppl to space 

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2 minutes ago, 844448 said:

Release them faster? Are you okay if they release it tomorrow and turns out has many bugs in it? Unless you won't berate DE for releasing buggy content, they wouldn't release it

You cannot use that argument when they DO delay patches constantly and they still come out buggy as hell, sometimes flatout broken.

Another thing they need, desperately, is a much better QA team to catch these bugs. Some of them aren't even fixed yet [like getting hit while summoning your Arch-gun and being unable to use anything other than the last weapon you had equipped, unable to change it].

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... From the stuff I read, what he/she is looking for can only be found on browser games... "Maintenance at xxxx/yyyy/zzzz"... nothing more than that, so it gives an idea that an update was made...

... something in that method, but with actually content released...

If it were up to me, you would have that... there are plenty of colors to release each week! But wait, I wouldn't released the palettes. I would release only a single color and one of its 'n' hue and one of its 'n' saturation level per week, until it actually ends after... how many exactly? millions of days?

... yeah, I think it fits...

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1 minute ago, 844448 said:

If you're not some kind of hardcore min-max, a solid team play is highly needed and speedrun like that dictates a perfect teamwork so in a sense, a mandatory team play to speedrun it

Can you guarantee there will be no berating on forced team play? Trials back then were very toxic and a lot pointing fingers at each other if there's a mistake

think u must separate the concepts at first complete a forced teamwork in order to progress mission like raid aint the same with raid speedrun

who am i to give give guaranties for everyone lol, ofcourse there will be pointing fingers if u jump on a raid unprepared without any knowledge wile pretending so

ppl will yell at u even on kuva surv if u try to pick a kanister near Ls and it accidentally activates \_(''/)_/

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4 minutes ago, Ephemiel said:

You cannot use that argument when they DO delay patches constantly and they still come out buggy as hell, sometimes flatout broken.

Another thing they need, desperately, is a much better QA team to catch these bugs. Some of them aren't even fixed yet [like getting hit while summoning your Arch-gun and being unable to use anything other than the last weapon you had equipped, unable to change it].

And how can we say they delay something when they don't put an exact date? Mostly only a time where the time frame is very big (fall 2019 is a long time from September 23 to December 22 according to google)

QA team can only do that much as a team of finding bugs, unless the QA is Shy which is a known warframe youtuber as a bug magnet, it's near impossible to find bugs as much as 50 million registered players can find

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10 minutes ago, DeathDweller said:

For me with NW at least it should be like this:

1 episode per week(since it's like 10 lines of voice acting and a fixed "captura" scene)

 No seasons, make it like a second daily tribute and add rewards as we go.

 Every second week a mission that has to do with the current episode and every 4 weeks a mission fighting the boss of the episode and conclusion.(so 4 episodes per story) 

 Keep the current standing system and been able to buy rewards you might lost with creds.

 So in conclusion smaller episodes but more frequent.It's not that hard to implement and can keep a player more than 1 month.

Don't forget that nightwave acts as an introduction of something like amalgams on season 1 so it's a story related thing that you need to do carefully to avoid contradicting the story (destiny 2 got this from killing a worm god with javelins which they say is not possible according to the lore)

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5 minutes ago, HIGHDAMAGE said:

think u must separate the concepts at first complete a forced teamwork in order to progress mission like raid aint the same with raid speedrun

who am i to give give guaranties for everyone lol, ofcourse there will be pointing fingers if u jump on a raid unprepared without any knowledge wile pretending so

ppl will yell at u even on kuva surv if u try to pick a kanister near Ls and it accidentally activates \_(''/)_/

See? Just a small mistake on kuva survival makes people yell at you, a prepared player so what will make it not any worse when a player with knowledge did a mistake?

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4 minutes ago, 844448 said:

And how can we say they delay something when they don't put an exact date? Mostly only a time where the time frame is very big (fall 2019 is a long time from September 23 to December 22 according to google)

QA team can only do that much as a team of finding bugs, unless the QA is Shy which is a known warframe youtuber as a bug magnet, it's near impossible to find bugs as much as 50 million registered players can find

Because they said around February that at least New War would come out before Tennocon and around a month before the Con, they said things were behind schedule in a Livestream. They also delayed Jovian Concord for a week only for it to release buggy and with issues anyway.

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, 844448 said:

Don't forget that nightwave acts as an introduction of something like amalgams on season 1 so it's a story related thing that you need to do carefully to avoid contradicting the story (destiny 2 got this from killing a worm god with javelins which they say is not possible according to the lore)

I wouldn't mind if they didn't introduce anything at all, just like spooky campfire stories only for the sake of lore's expansion.They could just make some specials when they want to introduce something like every 3 months.

Edited by DeathDweller

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Just now, 844448 said:

See? Just a small mistake on kuva survival makes people yell at you, a prepared player so what will make it not any worse when a player with knowledge did a mistake?

ther's no safe place for that it just doesn't exist 

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1 minute ago, Ephemiel said:

Because they said around February that at least New War would come out before Tennocon and around a month before the Con, they said things were behind schedule in a Livestream. They also delayed Jovian Concord for a week only for it to release buggy and with issues anyway.

Railjack was supposed to be out 2 years ago before or after that tennocon i don't recall exactly.

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1 minute ago, Ephemiel said:

Because they said around February that at least New War would come out before Tennocon and around a month before the Con, they said things were behind schedule in a Livestream. They also delayed Jovian Concord for a week only for it to release buggy and with issues anyway.

That's because they say things were behind schedule. And I don't know about you but I have no issues and see no bugs on the release day of Jovian Concord, even The Sacrifice ran perfectly on my side before they release hotfixes on that

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7 hours ago, kuciol said:

Here I repost my questions that nobody had an answer to so far and until then you will be nothing but haters.

1. Give me 1 example of a game that is on market over 5 years and doesnt have the same topics on forums as Warframe does (bad direction, content drought, bad balance)

2. How do you determine the correct amount of effort

3. How to do challenging yet accessible content without forced teamplay because that was major offender why trials failed

4. How you determine how "hard" is enough considering that its subjective and we already have people claiming lvl 200 enemies are not hard

5. How do you reward people in a way it will feel rewarding but not mandatory considering we had complains even about fluffs

6. Why should DE do a sudden 180 when current direction works and numbers shown reflect that

7. How do you deal with piling up of systems while adding new one like you demand in every update

8. How do you balance the game considering the sheer number of possible combinations this game has when you have unkillable tanks like Inaros or Chroma on one end and Banshe on the other.

Those are very straight forward questions that nobody so far was willing to answer without trying to ridicule them. I dont care what you want, i dont care what game looked like 5 years ago, all i want is clear answer to those questions without pompous speeches on "how we need to save the game" or "how vets are not understood". Those are fundamental problems that need to be addressed before you talk about improvements. 

Here's the answer to a couple of questions, because there are some of these I do agree with.

2. Echoes of Umbra is a clear lack of effort. They threw that out there as another attempt to occupy us until something else engaging comes along. They want people to farm for something that literally NO ONE asked for. We've been asking for more Umbra 'frames, but they already told us pre-Tennocon that they weren't putting anymore out, but an Umbra-like mechanic? No thanks.

4. How hard is hard enough? LOTS of content creators, fans, and other games have answered this. People LOVE the Souls games. These people are masochists who like getting their asses kicked. 

5. Give us rewards that adhere to or alter game mechanics. Personally, I've gotten attached to Umbra mods. It gives way to some supremely powerful builds. Even Ember becomes somewhat viable again with Umbra mods. But that's just a single example. What about unlocking some more lore or story content?

6. Because with a number of content creators jumping ship, some of their subs are going to do same. The power of a content creator's voice carries A LOT of weight, and when those creators have the ear of DE's playerbase, I think DE should pay attention to that.

7. That's easy: get rid of the ones that don't work or that don't have a rabid fan following like Lunario and Conclave and revisit the other game modes that people love.

8. That's easy. Pay closer attention to what games like The Witcher, the Souls series, and Destiny are doing with game balance. DE has already admitted to copping some of the tricks of the trade that other companies are using. Why not do a root cause analysis and add what works best to the game?

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1 minute ago, 844448 said:

That's because they say things were behind schedule. And I don't know about you but I have no issues and see no bugs on the release day of Jovian Concord, even The Sacrifice ran perfectly on my side before they release hotfixes on that

That's great my dude, you had no issues, i did and so did many others. You not having them doesn't suddenly mean it was all fine.

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1 minute ago, HIGHDAMAGE said:

ther's no safe place for that it just doesn't exist 

And you want to encourage having that kind of content as sustainable content? I don't think you want a sustainable toxicity as the sustainable content, don't you?

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Just now, 844448 said:

And you want to encourage having that kind of content as sustainable content? I don't think you want a sustainable toxicity as the sustainable content, don't you?

but u already have it as i told u there's no escape from the toxicity 

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1 minute ago, Ephemiel said:

That's great my dude, you had no issues, i did and so did many others. You not having them doesn't suddenly mean it was all fine.

This is the reason why we can't tell if it will be buggy or not, the bug somehow appears on many and not on the others so it's impossible for QA team to find out unless the QA team is 50 million people working on it

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2 minutes ago, HIGHDAMAGE said:

but u already have it as i told u there's no escape from the toxicity 

And that's the reason I don't really want a forced co-op here. If you can't escape it, at least we can reduce or avoid making the place for it, and people would ask DE to be able to solo it sooner or later

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1 minute ago, 844448 said:

And that's the reason I don't really want a forced co-op here. If you can't escape it, at least we can reduce or avoid making the place for it, and people would ask DE to be able to solo it sooner or later

u can always run with friends no one blames no one ^_^ just see no reason asking for a raid to be solo able thats not a raid anyways have a good one

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