Are there any Revenant players that think he’s bad?

[(PSN)SnakeLogic]

Theres been countless threads recently where this topic has derailed the original discussion. I figured its a fitting thing to discuss on the 1 year anniversary of his release.

Im directing this towards the people that actually have experience with the frame, the ones that have put a non-insignificant amount of time into using him in his current state.

I want to get to the bottom of this hilariously wide spectrum of opinions that i dont normally see with other frames.

For example

If you were to say frames like Nova, Nidus, Mesa etc are trash, people will laugh (or at least pity you) and move on.

Similarly, if you said Ember is top tier amazing, people will again think your crazy.

So im wondering why ive seen people call Revenant trash, while others like me, view him as easily one of the best warframes in the game.

Heres why i think he is good...

He has decent CC with his 1. This is great for solo play when your purposely keeping them alive to have a minion army that fights alongside you. In team play, this ability takes on a different use, and is better reserved for neutralizing a dangerous target. I promise you, your teammates will silently thank you when you turn a level 200 Nox / Heavy Gunner into a killable friendly.

He has an infinitely scaling damage combo with his 1+3. I don’t use this much day to day, but this is one of the things that makes him viable for long endurance runs.

He has an infinitely scaling tanking ability, that places him at number 2 on the Ranking of Tanking, only behind Nidus.

Long Arbitrations, endurance runs, Sorties, High Index, you name it, he can survive it. He even has unrivaled synergy with self damage weapons, its literally impossible to kill yourself with them, even shooting directly at your feet.

Mesmer Skin also prevents all status effects and puts enemies to sleep when they attempt to damage you, as if this ability needed to be any better.

He is great for DPS with his 4. This is a room clearing DPS ability with automatically adapting damage that will wipe out mobs of all factions of enemies well into level 200+. Combine this with his 3, and you can zip around the map before your teammates know what happened to everyone. Its not unusual for me to be in my 4 for an entire mission and killing everything.

Im seriously trying to wrap my head around how someone can think this warframe is not good, some even say trash.

Just so we are clear, this thread has NOTHING to do with any lingering salt related to his theme, rather how EFFECTIVE he is in actual gameplay.

Hell, ill be the first to admit that they botched his overall theme, and also included things into his kit that make absolutely no sense. A few that come to mind are his pointless passive, and pointless self healing capabilities on a frame that never takes any damage in the first place.

Even with those gripes, i can acknowledge that he’s still a fantastic frame thats effective at running almost all content, so im curious as to why others won’t do the same?

.

 

Edited August 24, 2019 by (PS4)SpIitSnake

[KazuXSora]

Mesa is trash. I don't need to pity or anything but, serious she's weak af and his 4th ability made my game crash. 

 

Yep, trashier than trash.

[SneakyErvin]

Big Rev player myself and I see him as easily one of the best frames. There just isnt anything that he is bad or even mediocre at. He has great survival skills, great damage options, awesome movement and more than enough CC.

I think many of the complaints come down to people obsessing over playing around his #1 and feeling some odd need to use every single little gimmick bonus mechanic that it brings. Somehow they got stuck with the idea of him being a minion/MC frame from some devstream waaaaay back instead of using him the way he actually turned out.

Simply using his #1 as the CC it is and then focusing on his other skills along with weapons is the golden path to reving success.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

"He's trash because he's not officially a vampire." There. Not my personal opinion though. Most people felt that he should play as "x" due to an information misunderstanding, and when the true Rev came different than "advertised" many hated it and him.

But weak and trash? Far from it.

Edited August 24, 2019 by (PS4)Hikuro-93

[Aldain]

Inb4Gears.

[(XBOX)CaligulaTwily]

He's pretty great imo, pretty effective at every mission at any level, tho maybe not the best at every mission type. Just the mist is, bleh imo. Wukong does the mist thing better I think 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

This thread makes my skin crawl.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

15 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Inb4Gears.

I mean the OP is pretty much calling me out specifically.

Edited August 24, 2019 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[VanFanel1980mx]

I think Revenant could be way better if his kit wasn't designed in 5 minutes with only one decent ability added at the last second.

[(PSN)SnakeLogic]

13 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I mean the OP is pretty much calling me out specifically.

Im not, i promise lol.

I mean your one of the main ones i had in mind, but theres definitely been some others echoing the same sentiment.

[IceColdHawk]

Besides of everything you've covered...and the fact that i find myself having an easy and relaxing time rolling through all kinds of missions with no or close to no damage taken, lots of quick killing potential through 360 degrees and also quick mobility (4 + 3 combo) i'd be a liar if i said that he's bad. Easily my favorite allround frame for when i'm not picking a meta option like Saryn for ESO or Frost for defense/excavation.

[YazMatazO]

Revenant is one of those frames that... well... require even less skill and imagination to play. Too much automation when it comes to his kit. That, however, seems to check all the boxes when it comes to some players :). 

Now I am not saying his performance is weak. I do want to point out that any praise for him being strong/whatever are practically insinuating that they'd prefer if the game played itself more and you're just collecting the loot. 

1 hour ago, (PS4)SpIitSnake said:

Even with those gripes, i can acknowledge that he’s still a fantastic frame thats effective at running almost all content, so im curious as to why others won’t do the same?

I can run all content with my Ember P who just recently got her Umbra Forma, as well. Maybe they don't run Revenant because he is even more boring than Mesa or Saryn 🙂 ?

Edited August 24, 2019 by YazMatazO

[nslay]

41 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I mean the OP is pretty much calling me out specifically.

You're not the only one, though you're probably the most vocal one!

[Midas]

Rev is on the top rn, been playing him since release and I have arguably one of the best setups for him rn

(Criticism from others, the unofficial warframe discord, and the unofficial warframe builds archives (LOTS OF MATH PEOPLE THERE)).

Edited August 24, 2019 by Midas

[nslay]

27 minutes ago, YazMatazO said:

Revenant is one of those frames that... well... require even less skill and imagination to play. Too much automation when it comes to his kit. That, however, seems to check all the boxes when it comes to some players :). 

If this was true, I wouldn't see so many posts claiming problems with some of his abilities or that those abilities are useless. They all have uses, even if niche uses... and that requires imagination!

An example: Reave can grant an ally one measly Mesmer Skin stack. Now most of us (including me) think 1 stack is generally not very useful... But you know, I can imagine using (and have used) this to keep allies alive during a Profit Taker or Exploiter explosion. Now that's imagination!

I do admit his 4 makes him look like a mindless nuker, but it's actually one his weaker abilities as it is horrible against Infested and it doesn't scale like first 3 abilities. Reave is also a bit awkward to learn as you almost never need it for most content. But do 3 hour survival or a tricky boss and you can easily one-two most enemies with it.

[Midas]

Reave: Counter clockwise rotations around target are faster and drain TOTAL % health (You can oneshot very very high levels)

Enthrall: Make your host enthrall frost eximus, this ability tends to shine on higher levels or when your team is struggling.

Mesmer Skin: The golden fountain of eternal damage reduction, don't waste natural talent on it as it does not even reduce cast time by 1 second, instead utilize magus lockdown, dash, then recast.

4th ability: Tap it to wipe a room fairly quick, was STILL WIPING level 250+ on Operation: Hostile Mergers when my team was overwhelmed when we started getting higher up. The levels during that event scaled depending on how many keys you broke. If you did all 4 perfectly each time levels did not go as high (It allowed you to earn a ton of points, rewarding you for coordination).

Edited August 29, 2019 by Midas

[5H4DE]

I dunno, I don't think he's trash, definitely strong, he just doesn't click with me so I find myself playing other frames even if they are 'weaker'.

[YazMatazO]

47 minutes ago, nslay said:

If this was true, I wouldn't see so many posts claiming problems with some of his abilities or that those abilities are useless. They all have uses, even if niche uses... and that requires imagination!

An example: Reave can grant an ally one measly Mesmer Skin stack. Now most of us (including me) think 1 stack is generally not very useful... But you know, I can imagine using (and have used) this to keep allies alive during a Profit Taker or Exploiter explosion. Now that's imagination!

I do admit his 4 makes him look like a mindless nuker, but it's actually one his weaker abilities as it is horrible against Infested and it doesn't scale like first 3 abilities. Reave is also a bit awkward to learn as you almost never need it for most content. But do 3 hour survival or a tricky boss and you can easily one-two most enemies with it.

Well, I don't belong to that crowd. 

Other than his 3 all of his other skills, including his passive are automated to a more-or-less high degree. One stack of Mesmer Skin is mostly perfunctory considering the game, but if it were something like Baruuk's daggers, then it would have been wholly boring. It does kind of prove that his kit wasn't very well thought out of. Once again, I am not arguing whether he's weak or not. My point is the skills themselves do too much without your input. He is boring to me - that's all.  

[DaMasque]

I've dabbled with Revenant and convicted myself that he's what Nekros should've been if minion gameplay was more fleshed out. Sadly as playing with Revenant, there are things that I would like to complain about.

No this isn't a direct comparison of the two warframe, this is just what I feel about Revenant.

My main itch is his Mesmer skin. Instead of flat damage reduction we get stacks to damage immunity. This then poses the problem.

Frames with Damage Reduction and a decent amount of armor (i.e. Nezha, Trinity, Gara, Wukong) are vastly superior in the tank "meta."

Revenant falls from this cause his damage immunity saps away extremely quickly. Yes there is a 3 second delay per stack, but because we are basically in hordes of enemies, your only tanking ability is crippled. 

Next is the problem of managing Revenant's Mesmer Skin. To first have it on, then have minions and then pressing 2 through them. Solo this might not be a issue but in public team settings. why do you exist other then pressing 4 sometimes, unless another frame overshadows you from DPS. Your minions are already dead the second you try controlling them, rendering this set up null.

Overall...
As a tank, why bother?
DPS, Oh... Laser light show. So again, why?
Support, Oh right... he can give 1 stack of Mesmer Skin to allies. 

In the end, He's not bad, just that other frames will do better.

Edited August 24, 2019 by DaMasque

[(XBOX)Dex Xean]

I mean he has one of the best defensive ability he just has to recast it and never forget to and he will avoid dying. I guess maybe his other skills fall short on long endurance? he works pretty well up to level 120 so I guess if you go for a long mission beyond those levels it would be "bad" to those players? Kinda find Reave lackluster myself though. semi decent healing is about it for that skill.

Edited August 24, 2019 by (XB1)Dex Xean

[Ikyr0]

It's the exact same thing with Baruuk. Frames who have unintuitive kits tend to get a lot of irrational hate. A lot of people greatly dislike Baruuk's Restraint mechanic, on top of not knowing how to build his exalted. As a result, he's probably one of the most disliked newer frames. Him and Rev are in a similar boat, when in fact they are some of the top frames for high level content. 

Personally I don't play Rev only because I dislike the visuals of his 4. The laser show just doesn't look very good. 

Edited August 24, 2019 by Ikyr0

[DaMasque]

woops doubles.

Edited August 24, 2019 by DaMasque

[KennBone]

Revenant its one of the few WF that actually got the 4  skill´s really efective.

[(XBOX)Dex Xean]

 

1 minute ago, Ikyr0 said:

It's the exact same thing with Baruuk. Frames who have unintuitive kits tend to get a lot of irrational hate. A lot of people greatly dislike Baruuk's Restraint mechanic, on top of not knowing how to build his exalted. As a result, he's probably one of the most disliked newer frames. Him and Rev are in a similar boat, when in fact they are some of the top frames for high level content. 

I think ppl underestimate how his skin being recast-able makes it one of the best skills to stay alive while stunning targets.

[nslay]

6 minutes ago, (XB1)Dex Xean said:

I mean he has one of the best defensive ability he just has to recast it and never forget to and he will avoid dying. I guess maybe his other skills fall short on long endurance? he works pretty well up to level 120 so I guess if you go for a long mission beyond those levels it would be "bad" to those players? Kinda find Reave lackluster myself though. semi decent healing is about it for that skill.

His Enthrall+Reave synergy is mandatory for long endurance... You don't need 250% ability strength, but Enthrall+Reave can one-shot any level enemy as it's a % target max health damage ability.

EDIT: P.S. 250% ability strength gives Reave 100% target max health drain (hence one shot). But again, you can pass through the same target multiple times with one cast of Reave.

He's theoretically got no ceiling... Which is why he can do these things:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/bjeze1/new_kuva_world_record_24_hours/

Spoiler

 

 

Edited August 24, 2019 by nslay