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Tangent-Valley

Players Say "We Want Rewards", without ever actually Saying or Agreeing on what they want.

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With the backlash facing Echoes of Umbra revealed in the last Prime Time (Just......why? What IS this buff even?!), A LOT of Players are going about the Youtubes, the Reddits, and the Forums complaining about "It's like DE doesn't listen to us!"....But here's the kicker, Folks. DE can't listen if you NEVER SAY WHAT YOU WANT!!! (Or at least agree on things others do vocalize)

For the longest time, DE has basically asked the Player-Base: "So, what do you guys want?", and outside the loud "PLAT" replies, the most answer you ever hear is "You know.....Things!"

Well, no. They don't know. Because you never tell them!! And the vague "Uh, Cosmetics....maybe!" replies ALWAYS get shot down the more vocalize Player-Base that screams back "CONTENT!!!", again, without ever SAYING what that Content is. You're like a bunch of kids, who's Mom is trying to feed, but when they ask what you want, you just reply back "FOOD!" (And the one kid who says "Meat" just gets punched by the others before Mom can ask "What kind of Meat?".


Honestly, in terms of repeat Farm-able Rewards, I think this "Temporary Buff" idea is a step in the right direction. It sort of face-planted on the first step, but it's still the right direction for me.

 

My Personal Idea of what I'd like to see as a Reward/Content (Can't complain about the behavior and then say nothing about what I want, can I?): A Farm-able resource/item that allows the Players to install a temporary, Aura Mod-like Buff on a Frame of choice for a decent duration of time tying in with the difficulty of gathering/farming said resource/item. For instance, a Buff that grants you "+5 Heals per Second", or "+20% Melee Damage", or "+20 Sprint Speed". Small but noticeable buffs, that aren't game-breaking, but give something towards different Frames/Game-Play. These buffs can be Solo, or Squad effecting like the Aura-Mods. They'll definitely, depending on Buffs, find their way into some sort of "Meta Plays" (Can anyone say "Useless Unairu Wisp Node!"?), and they're a completely optional thing to farm for for most all of the Player-Base (You don't NEED Riven Mods, etc.).

If you have any ideas of Rewards you'd like to see from DE, Please....PLEASE vocalize them, and share them around. Stop just saying "You know....Things!", and be proactive with this, and maybe DE will finally see some of the more shared and backed ones, and add something Players have been begging for and heavily backing into the games. (Also, don't just instantly give-up by saying "Pfft! DE's never listened to the Players before!" and get off your butt already.)



EDIT: Just going to add this here. Apparently DE is delaying the "Echoes of Umbra" based on Community feedback.....you know, feedback from the Players and Partners....or as some folks in this comment section put it, the "Why Bother! DE Never Listens to Anything We Say!" people that, as mentioned, DE "never listens to". Huh.......it's almost like they listened, and are planning to alter the reward based on feedback or something. Maybe based on what folks are saying they'd want from such a reward too. Who knows...
But to be fair, this could also be another Damage 3.0, in which DE takes out the idea they had entirely, and doesn't add any Community suggestions in its place. I will note that, and give the "DE never listens" crowd at least a point on that front.

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I’d like more peculiar mods.

The problem is we’ve reached a point where we already have these mods and stuff to make our frames incredibly strong, so DE can’t just add to that. So I think in return we’ve just been getting things that affect gameplay but in super minimal, insignificant ways like Aura forma (people wanted universal for any slot not just aura slot) and the Umbra echo. So it’s either we get cosmetics or new mods and items that are more or less just gimmicks that have no practical value.

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Objectively, people would want something to enhance their progression, the ‘next step of the game’ if you will. Problem is we’re already so powerful that more power would just seem pointless. Where can we go from here anyway? Thus the problem comes back to game balance and we all know how that’s going 

 

  DE’s problem with this new reward (imo) is that it’s here for the sake of being here. A 2 part reward that lasts 24h which only serves to make us farm more and keep coming back to farm it, these are there words not mine. And it’s not even necessary reward, just a very niche ‘buff’ or a plus. This kinda reward would never work, it’s just something to make people come back for the sake of coming back, and in that case..they won’t come back, because it’s redundant and they won’t need it. 

 

  For me I’ll just enjoy the new maps for a great game mod imo. Rewards were always it’s problem but at least we’re getting kuva

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2 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

Pretty sure Rivens and Kuva have been mentioned often enough...

They have, but there's a very Vocal part of the Player-Base that argues against it, basically telling DE "Don't you DARE dilute my Reward Pool with that Riven stuff I don't care about!". I get it, they're not everyone's cup of tea, but....for myself, it's honestly very annoying. Like, I don't see a reason why "1 Random Riven of a Random Type!" can't be a reward from the Arbitration Store. Grind for a few hours, guaranteed Riven of some kind (Rifle, Shotgun, Pistol, Melee). Relying on Daily luck in Sorties has always been annoying, to the point I don't play them to try and get Rivens anymore.

Still, if this is a reward you want, continue to be vocal about it. I'm right there next to you in that fight.

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Look mate, it's not our job to come up with great rewards. They have and pay their designers for that. But you don't need to be a game designer to know when a terrible idea is terrible. Temporary rewards are not rewarding. Period. Now get those game designers that are paid to design this game to design rewards that are actually rewarding. Thank you!

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I want more confounding mods where I'm not sure it helps or not... like:

Unscrupulous Aim:

+200% arm/leg damage

-70% body/head damage

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1 minute ago, Gabbynaru said:

Look mate, it's not our job to come up with great rewards. They have and pay their designers for that. But you don't need to be a game designer to know when a terrible idea is terrible. Temporary rewards are not rewarding. Period. Now get those game designers that are paid to design this game to design rewards that are actually rewarding. Thank you!

"Give us what we want!"

"Okay, what do you want?"

"We're not telling you!!!!!!"

 


Mmhm.........yep........That's going so well for us so far, isn't it. *Cough*

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1 minute ago, Tangent-Valley said:

Like, I don't see a reason why "1 Random Riven of a Random Type!" can't be a reward from the Arbitration Store. Grind for a few hours, guaranteed Riven of some kind (Rifle, Shotgun, Pistol, Melee). Relying on Daily luck in Sorties has always been annoying, to the point I don't play them to try and get Rivens anymore.

Dude this arbitration idea + a method (disruption hopefully) of gaining sustainable amounts of kuva (maybe even in scaling amounts pretty pls?) and i'd see myself always having a reason to keep playing the game besides waiting for new content.

I like the concept of arbitrations too but once you've got all the mods and the ephemera, all there is is endo pretty much. And endo falls off once you have everything you need, maxed.

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1 minute ago, Tangent-Valley said:

"Give us what we want!"

"Okay, what do you want?"

"We're not telling you!!!!!!"

 


Mmhm.........yep........That's going so well for us so far, isn't it. *Cough*

Well that's a stupid argument. You know what we want? Unllimited power and infinite platinum, never ending content and the constant feeling of freshness. There. Now tell me how DE will make that happen?

No mate, they're devs, they're paid to develop, so throw ideas our way and we'll let them know if they're good or not. If they can't come up with ideas, what are they doing in this industry?

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1 minute ago, Gabbynaru said:

Well that's a stupid argument. You know what we want? Unllimited power and infinite platinum, never ending content and the constant feeling of freshness. There. Now tell me how DE will make that happen?

....Gonna be honest, I don't think I'm wrong.....but I gotta hand it to a counter like that too. Fairs fair.

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56 minutes ago, Tangent-Valley said:

With the backlash facing Echoes of Umbra revealed in the last Prime Time (Just......why? What IS this buff even?!), A LOT of Players are going about the Youtubes, the Reddits, and the Forums complaining about "It's like DE doesn't listen to us!"....But here's the kicker, Folks. DE can't listen if you NEVER SAY WHAT YOU WANT!!! (Or at least agree on things others do vocalize)

For the longest time, DE has basically asked the Player-Base: "So, what do you guys want?", and outside the loud "PLAT" replies, the most answer you ever hear is "You know.....Things!"

Well, no. They don't know. Because you never tell them!! And the vague "Uh, Cosmetics....maybe!" replies ALWAYS get shot down the more vocalize Player-Base that screams back "CONTENT!!!", again, without ever SAYING what that Content is. You're like a bunch of kids, who's Mom is trying to feed, but when they ask what you want, you just reply back "FOOD!" (And the one kid who says "Meat" just gets punched by the others before Mom can ask "What kind of Meat?".


Honestly, in terms of repeat Farm-able Rewards, I think this "Temporary Buff" idea is a step in the right direction. It sort of face-planted on the first step, but it's still the right direction for me.

 

My Personal Idea of what I'd like to see as a Reward/Content (Can't complain about the behavior and then say nothing about what I want, can I?): A Farm-able resource/item that allows the Players to install a temporary, Aura Mod-like Buff on a Frame of choice for a decent duration of time tying in with the difficulty of gathering/farming said resource/item. For instance, a Buff that grants you "+5 Heals per Second", or "+20% Melee Damage", or "+20 Sprint Speed". Small but noticeable buffs, that aren't game-breaking, but give something towards different Frames/Game-Play. These buffs can be Solo, or Squad effecting like the Aura-Mods. They'll definitely, depending on Buffs, find their way into some sort of "Meta Plays" (Can anyone say "Useless Unairu Wisp Node!"?), and they're a completely optional thing to farm for for most all of the Player-Base (You don't NEED Riven Mods, etc.).

If you have any ideas of Rewards you'd like to see from DE, Please....PLEASE vocalize them, and share them around. Stop just saying "You know....Things!", and be proactive with this, and maybe DE will finally see some of the more shared and backed ones, and add something Players have been begging for and heavily backing into the games. (Also, don't just instantly give-up by saying "Pfft! DE's never listened to the Players before!" and get off your butt already.)

We want Rhino Umbra. Make him the god of tank frames. Rank 1 in tanking. The best tank to use against Sentient enemies and not Inaros or Revenant or that decomposing pizza looking thing.

nMOsxyl.png

They gotta give him a horn this time. Also this is not a great concept. I was hoping for the thing in the Rhino Prime Codex Entry.

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id like more give and take mods like corrupted mods and some more ship decorations please and thank you 

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vor einer Stunde schrieb Tangent-Valley:

For instance, a Buff that grants you "+5 Heals per Second", or "+20% Melee Damage", or "+20 Sprint Speed". Small but noticeable buffs, that aren't game-breaking, but give something towards different Frames/Game-Play.

That will be completly gamebreaking unless you wanted to type "+0.20 Sprint Speed" ... sry couldnt help it 😉

But yeah, i agree that minor temporary buffs like that would be way better than the umbra-gimmick.

 

Besides that, its simply wrong that "nobody ever says what kind of content/rewards he actually wants".

Either DE doesnt want to listen to what players want like more kuva for example, or simply something valuable like axi-relics in Disruption (i mean seriously, with that reward pool at the moment, it should be clear for everyone who knows Warframe that no one cares for the gamemode rewardwise). Or on the other hand, serious suggestions will get ignored in this forum because its too much to read (guess what, a good suggestion needs more than a few lines)...

 

Edit: just take a look on what kind of topics generate tons of answers in general discussion for example...the most trashy topics will always generate the most answers (Anasa complaints, Battle royale request, i quit warframe topics and so on and on).

 

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1 minute ago, DreisterDino said:

Either DE doesnt want to listen to what players want like more kuva for example, or simply something valuable like axi-relics in Disruption (i mean seriously, with that reward pool at the moment, it should be clear for everyone who knows Warframe that no one cares for the gamemode rewardwise). Or on the other hand, serious suggestions will get ignored in this forum because its too much to read (guess what, a good suggestion needs more than a few lines)

 

I care about disruption because I like the gameplay and not the rewards so cross that "no one cares" out

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28 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

Look mate, it's not our job to come up with great rewards. They have and pay their designers for that. But you don't need to be a game designer to know when a terrible idea is terrible. Temporary rewards are not rewarding. Period. Now get those game designers that are paid to design this game to design rewards that are actually rewarding. Thank you!

"DE doesn't listen to players!!"
"Okay, what do you guys want"
"It's not our job to tell you!!"

 

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vor 3 Minuten schrieb 844448:

I care about disruption because I like the gameplay and not the rewards so cross that "no one cares" out

no i wont because you just repeated what i have written:

" that no one cares for the gamemode rewardwise"

😉

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Powerful mods with serious tradeoffs that support skilled play, frame augments with tradeoffs that aren't just buffs for existing abilities, Kuva, rivens, pre-built Forma, skins, maybe various Peculiar mods, progression to higher potential plat incomes/time invested, scaling Kuva, universal Forma also sounds good to me for different builds, more nodes for more possibly highly rewarding alerts.

These are nice rewards imo..

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I think, more lore would be nice... I would gladly hunt a few hours to get a proper story to the origins of each warframe.
Second, stuff like Umbra and Aura Forma, exclusive cosmetics, ephemeras and the like, all these are small things that most people would be happy to farm for.
The issue here isn't that much on the actual rewards themselves, i mean arbitration rewards are pretty good, for example. It's the effort vs reward ratio...
I mean, take stuff like Archwing/Gun/melee mods... Most of them have ridiculous drop chances, to the point that with almost 2000hs of game i'm still missing a few, because guess what, it's a feedback loop, the content is repetitive and boring, it could be expedited with the right mods, but guess what, the right mods have a 0,01% chance of droping from a single specific enemy which spawns on a single specific mission... Who thinks this is good design? It's like telling us NOT to play the game mod... And then they wonder why people hate archguns?

Well, easy answer, because 60-80% of players have issues with 3D navigation and combat, this is the same with underwater combat in guild wars 2, for example, a lot of people hate it because of this... And like GW2, you add to this a plenty nerfed experience for no real rewards, people won't touch it.
 

Anyway i digressed... The first thing they need to think, before new rewards and shinnies, is how those are delivered, they need to consider if 30hs looking for a single mod is really what they want to ask of players. Because being frustrated isn't what will being people back.
Relics is another good example... Why the hell do they repeat the exact same drop lists in all the maps at a tier? Why not spread the pain? Why not instead of having several mods, plus all the relics of that tier on every map of that tier? Why not put half the mods and half the relics in each map? That'll DOUBLE the drop rate for those things, and at the same time, every map has a reason to be played. Because right now, you look at all the endless missions, you go to the one that's faster (usually escavation) and you grind that single map node.
IF each map had it's own loot table, with higher odds of droping each item, people would have reasons to go to each different node.

Another thing they can do is give more items as players scale the difficulty... So for example, player does AABC he gets 1 item for each of those rounds, when they go to 2AABC, they get 2 items per round, 3AABC =3 items. That makes endurance rewarding, and also increases the odds that people get what they want for staying longer.

Then as for rewards themselves, there's a lot that can be done without even adding much new stuff... For example single colour unlocks, chances of getting skins, etc, etc.

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1 minute ago, Goodwill said:

"DE doesn't listen to players!!"
"Okay, what do you guys want"
"It's not our job to tell you!!"

 

 

23 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

Well that's a stupid argument. You know what we want? Unllimited power and infinite platinum, never ending content and the constant feeling of freshness. There. Now tell me how DE will make that happen?

No mate, they're devs, they're paid to develop, so throw ideas our way and we'll let them know if they're good or not. If they can't come up with ideas, what are they doing in this industry?

 

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Justo ahora, 844448 dijo:

I care about disruption because I like the gameplay and not the rewards so cross that "no one cares" out

I used to be like you, Playing just for the sake of having fun, I would do +3 hrs Survival runs to see how long I can survive and of course I wouldn't get rewarded for all that time spent, it will come a time when you wish the rewards are at least good enough for your time.

I really like Disruption but if the rewards aren't worth I won't play it.

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Just now, DOOMPATRIOT said:

I used to be like you, Playing just for the sake of having fun, I would do +3 hrs Survival runs to see how long I can survive and of course I wouldn't get rewarded for all that time spent, it will come a time when you wish the rewards are at least good enough for your time.

I really like Disruption but if the rewards aren't worth I won't play it.

So you don't see the power you have to survive +3 hours survival runs as your reward? I already have my reward for my effort on building my power from scratch so things like that are sprinkle on top

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6 minutes ago, 844448 said:

I care about disruption because I like the gameplay and not the rewards so cross that "no one cares" out

Hey, I play it for that reason too! I also fight the Ropalolyst every once in a while, only problem I find with that boss fight is that the boss itself looks like a featherless chicken. Makes it harder to take it seriously, kind of like Wukong's iron staff slam noises.

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34 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

Well that's a stupid argument. You know what we want? Unllimited power and infinite platinum, never ending content and the constant feeling of freshness. There. Now tell me how DE will make that happen?

No mate, they're devs, they're paid to develop, so throw ideas our way and we'll let them know if they're good or not. If they can't come up with ideas, what are they doing in this industry?

 

12 minutes ago, Goodwill said:

"DE doesn't listen to players!!"
"Okay, what do you guys want"
"It's not our job to tell you!!"

 

Playerbase sending real mixed signals here.

I'm not actually particularly directing this at you, but if you've seen recent threads, this is what it generally boils down to.

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