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Players Say "We Want Rewards", without ever actually Saying or Agreeing on what they want.

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7 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

DE don't implement many fan ideas because the majority of them are shortsighted,

The same DE that took a bat to Ember because she was too good for lower-leveled content and then created Frames like Octavia, Mesa and Nidus thought that?

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Pet arcanes. Full could make your pet revive after 180 sec 2 would be 90 sec. The Dijin(or what ever it’s called) would be 23 with its mod.

ummm a good one I was thinking was a game mode that lets us role a level 1 mod stack onto a mod we have. This is major power creep so it would need higher level content. Like new game + 😉

umm operator gear? Like real gear I want to do more then 3 arcanes it feel so bare bones.

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These are some of the ideas that popped into my head while reading this thread.

- I want a resource that you get from playing missions that can be traded in for specific items like Kuva, resources, forma, reactors, catalysts, cosmetics, rivens, blueprints, etc. It's just a little something extra after a rotation on top of the regular reward that scales with difficulty. It would be especially good for doing long endurance runs. Everyone always mentions that doing these runs just isn't rewarding so this idea is to help with that while also providing newer players a faster way to get some forma's and the like.

- Increase the drop chance on some mods/parts. Farming for 20+ hours for a single mod is not the best for the game in my honest opinion. It scares off new players and burns out current players. Even if just increasing the drop chances a bit it would go a long way and ease the feeling some people get that they're just wasting their time. I have been trying to frm for the Broken War parts for 15 hours now and I have to say I'm about to give up. The drop chances are just horrendous, I feel like I'm going insane. I know I can purchase these things from other players but I shouldn't have to be forced to do something like that. I can put in the time to farm but there's a limit.

- Re-work the Arcane system. I know it's supposed to be an endgame thing but it really shouldn't be. Introduce Arcanes to players earlier on in the star chart. Have them be prizes for rotations, have them drop from more enemies, etc. Keep the best of the best Arcanes as end game items if you need to but have the lower-tier ones be available earlier on.

- Remove lenses from the game already and let us earn focus like we earn experience. Why over complicate the system and make it difficult for a newer player to earn focus? It also prevents you from playing with different frames and weapons that don't have lenses, currently. It's so restrictive when it could be so much better. If you really want to keep lenses in the game ok, just make them increase how much focus you earn but not be tied to a school.

- Maybe add loot boxes into the game (but don't have them be purchasable for money) that drop really great items like hard to get resources, cosmetics, rare blueprints, etc. Not sure what would drop these boxes but make it so they're not too hard to get. It would be a fun little extra thing you can get. I know many people loathe loot boxes but to me they're only a problem if they can be bought for real money, have items that are only obtainable in said boxes or are too hard to come by and don't drop anything interesting. If those issues aren't there then I really enjoy loot boxes and I think many other players will as well.

- Readjust the loot tables for end game contect such as sorties. The hard to get items almost never show up and most of the time you're given an ayatan sculpture. This is making players avoid these missions. Have the items also change once in a while to keep things interesting.

 

I think with these implemented all players, new and old, would benefit and feel more rewarded for playing the game. 

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On 2019-08-25 at 9:30 AM, Tangent-Valley said:

Stuff I agree with

The forum: OMG THIS NEW THING IS USELESS DE HOW COULD YOU DO THIS???!!!

 

Also the forum: OMG THIS NEW THING IS MORE POWER CREEP REEEEEEEEEEE!!!1!

 

You cant have it both ways.

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Posted (edited)

The problem with asking "What do you want?" is that most people don't really know in advance.  People didn't "know" they wanted a game about punching trees and stacking stone blocks until Minecraft existed.  Then they tried it, had fun with it.  Now we're drowning in them.  But if people had been pitching ideas in a room, or trying them with "demographically selected focus groups" of sugar-addled teenage boys... At best someone would have said "so... basically Lego.  Isn't there already an official Lego game?"

When people say "We want things!" it's because they don't *know* what thing to ask for.  In the short term, what they mostly mean is "We're tired of what we have."  People don't want Warframe to copy Destiny's end-game.  Destiny already exists, and does what it does pretty well.  If that's what they wanted from endgame, they'd already be playing Destiny.  Same for super complicated skill trees, or PVP, or whatever else.  They're here because this is Warframe, and nothing else is quite like it.

Some people DO know what to answer when you ask "What do you want?"  For them, the answer often seems to be "I want this other thing I already enjoy, but in Warframe."  Those people *completely* want to copy Destiny's engame, or add battle royale, or a full PVP survival mode.  They'd tried that in another game, they like it, but they're sure they'd like it even MORE if Warframe did exactly the same thing.

I think most people just want to see something new.  Maybe they'll like it, maybe they won't.  And DE does try to bounce new ideas.  My personal problem with Echos of Umbra is that for me, the expiration timer would be a crippling disincentive.  If Disruption was fun for me, I'd already be playing it.  Adding a reward I'd kind of like, but forcing me to keep repeating a single mission type just to maintain it is a non-starter.  Doubly so since I don't like Disruption at all.  For me, it doesn't encourage me to keep playing to get more Echos.  It means I have no reason to play it AT ALL beyond clearing the map nodes to hold onto whatever perks come with 100% map completion.  If it was a permanent upgrade but rare, I might consider playing enough to upgrade a few of my favorite frames.  But as a single use booster with in incredibly short duration?  Nope, not even worth the effort.

The part where I actively start to resent the Echos specifically is it seems to be the coffin nail that confirms that Mag Umbra or Volt Umbra (or any of the others) will never exist, and that the devs have already dropped the idea of Umbral frames as side-grades to normal and Prime frames.  Considering how long it takes to add new story content I'm not *surprised* they dropped Umbral frames already.  (Two Tennocons with trailers for the New War, we're still months from *maybe* seeing it.  No one is sure if Railjack will even launch this year.  They mentioned Planes of Duviri in January, so maybe by December 2021?)  But it does make me sad that there won't be more strange and unsettling lore for any of the frames I enjoy more than Excalibur.  (And no offense to Excalibur fans, but "frames I enjoy more than him" is "just about all of them.")

Making games is hard.  Making Warframe seems to be especially difficult from a story perspective.  We went from no lore at all to getting intriguing, story hinting trailers for each new Prime.  Then something got hung up for Hydroid, and now we're back to "Here's a new shiny thing, please buy it.  Please?"  The amazing story missions from Harrow and Octavia got pruned back to a few soundbites for Revenant and a fetch/crafting quest.  And for Garuda we got "Oh, right.  We found this ruined warframe tangled in a mushroom, you can have her if you want."  Wisp and Hildryn didn't even get that much.  😞  Getting all the story finished on time was obviously harder than they expected, and that's fine.  But it would be nice to have *something.*  Even if it's just a few lines of context in the description, and a few paragraphs of backstory or context lore in the Codex entries.

I don't have any idea what I want from Warframe.  Just like I didn't know I wanted to spend hours punching trees until Minecraft existed.  Or that I wanted a realistic(ish) space travel simulator about shooting little green muppets to the moon until Kerbal Space Program existed.  I keep hoping that maybe DE will try something like they did though, find an idea no one had thought of before and turn it into something amazing.  But I don't think the Echos of Umbra are that thing.  Not for me.

Edited by EmberStar
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48 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

The forum: OMG THIS NEW THING IS USELESS DE HOW COULD YOU DO THIS???!!!

 

Also the forum: OMG THIS NEW THING IS MORE POWER CREEP REEEEEEEEEEE!!!1!

 

You cant have it both ways.

Most people aren't trying to have it both ways.  You're trying to combine two different reactions from two separate factions of players, and then claiming it's hypocritical that a chaotic mass of strangers aren't behaving like a single logical entity.

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I suppose tens of thousands of threads have been made for suggestions, and it is quite clear what the fan base wants (reasonably). If somebody says, nobody knows what playerbase wants, they are being illogical. Partners have given hundreds of feedback topics as well, and they are giving it in the inner loop of DE, but nobody listened to them either. So, the thread is misleading. 

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On 2019-08-25 at 12:19 PM, Gabbynaru said:

Look mate, it's not our job to come up with great rewards. They have and pay their designers for that. But you don't need to be a game designer to know when a terrible idea is terrible. Temporary rewards are not rewarding. Period. Now get those game designers that are paid to design this game to design rewards that are actually rewarding. Thank you!

Exactly. I want something I can hold on to, maybe I could have that on addition to a different reward. For instance, in destiny you did the nightfall and you got the reward from the nightfall, and then you get an aura untill then next nightfall. The basic stuff for Warframe is, new weapons, skins, armor, syandanas,  emphemeras (that are easy to build or are already built). Imagine if disruption, an actual, fun game mode had good rewards, such as any of the things I mentioned, instead of crappy mods. However, it's not just rewards it's the actual gamemodes that need work. The game feels more like a chore than fun at most times. If it's a fun game mode then there is no incentive to play, if it's a boring game mode with suitable rewards then that sucks. 

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On 2019-08-25 at 12:21 PM, Tangent-Valley said:

"Give us what we want!"

"Okay, what do you want?"

"We're not telling you!!!!!!"

 


Mmhm.........yep........That's going so well for us so far, isn't it. *Cough*

There are a plethora of forum and reddit post that get downvoted shot-down locked and even deleted mentioning ideas changes and solutions for rewards. A lot of people have and still do try but we get overshadowed by tennogen or the good old “if you don’t like warframe how it is leave” “this isn’t x- game go play that then” etc. if you haven’t seen any post about rewards or ideas for such you haven’t been in the forums recently brother 

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1 hour ago, --C--Nehra said:

I suppose tens of thousands of threads have been made for suggestions, and it is quite clear what the fan base wants (reasonably). If somebody says, nobody knows what playerbase wants, they are being illogical. Partners have given hundreds of feedback topics as well, and they are giving it in the inner loop of DE, but nobody listened to them either. So, the thread is misleading. 

THIS.! Also I keep seeing you in these threads guy I’m gonna take you out for a beer LMAO

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17 hours ago, EmberStar said:

Most people aren't trying to have it both ways.  You're trying to combine two different reactions from two separate factions of players, and then claiming it's hypocritical that a chaotic mass of strangers aren't behaving like a single logical entity.

I see the point sailed right over your head. I'm not accusing any particular person of trying to have it both ways. If theres any particular group I'm accusing, it's the forum as a whole.

 

Either we'll see threads complaining about how x new thing isnt worth the effort or we'll see threads complaining about how x new thing is more game breaking op power creep.

 

Or it will be cosmetic and we'll have threads complaining about how "cosmetics arent content"

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, --C--Nehra said:

I suppose tens of thousands of threads have been made for suggestions, and it is quite clear what the fan base wants (reasonably). If somebody says, nobody knows what playerbase wants, they are being illogical. Partners have given hundreds of feedback topics as well, and they are giving it in the inner loop of DE, but nobody listened to them either. So, the thread is misleading. 

Partners also have an ulterior motive/need...and don't act like they don't.    Their needs for the game to produce content are different than the general population in terms of play.    In that way they are seriously disconnected.

Edited by Chappie1975

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23 hours ago, Ephemiel said:

The same DE that took a bat to Ember because she was too good for lower-leveled content and then created Frames like Octavia, Mesa and Nidus thought that?

I'll be happy to beat this dead horse again.

Ember's 4 was turn it on, leave it on, and forget about it for the rest of the mission. There was no management involved beyond "is this turned on". Insane range with the right build, going through walls, and in a lower level mission none of those other frames you mentioned would even be able to kill anything (well, barely) because mesa,Octavia, and nidus cant use their abilities through walls while bullet jumping.

And ember is STILL busted in lower level content but people want to cry and rage because reasons.

 

Does she need a rework? Sure. But the nerf was 100% justified.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

I see the point sailed right over your head. I'm not accusing any particular person of trying to have it both ways. If theres any particular group I'm accusing, it's the forum as a whole.

 

Either we'll see threads complaining about how x new thing isnt worth the effort or we'll see threads complaining about how x new thing is more game breaking op power creep.

 

Or it will be cosmetic and we'll have threads complaining about how "cosmetics arent content"

No, I saw your point.  Your point just doesn't have a point.  As you just said, no one will ever be happy with a new item.  If it's not stronger than the meta, it's useless.  If it is, it's power creep.  If it's a new weapon, someone wants more warframes.  If it's cosmetics, someone else will want a new weapon.  And I already realized that you're accusing "the forum as a whole."  That's why I said what I said.

Edit:  And people are still upset about the Ember nerf because no one *cares* about lower level content.  Yes, Ember destroys everything up to level 30-ish.  So what?  Her powers aren't even worth USING on level 60 enemies, and playing her above level 110 is basically a self-inflicted Hard Mode.  (Challenge:  Play with no health, no powers, and no armor!)

Edited by EmberStar

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10 hours ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

I'll be happy to beat this dead horse again.

Ember's 4 was turn it on, leave it on, and forget about it for the rest of the mission. There was no management involved beyond "is this turned on". Insane range with the right build, going through walls, and in a lower level mission none of those other frames you mentioned would even be able to kill anything (well, barely) because mesa,Octavia, and nidus cant use their abilities through walls while bullet jumping.

And ember is STILL busted in lower level content but people want to cry and rage because reasons.

 

Does she need a rework? Sure. But the nerf was 100% justified.

Saryn limbo equinox Excal and more have press 4 to win abilities that go throw walls and require zero effort to run through lower content with. Does that mean they need to be nerfed as well

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35 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Excal

Putting Excalibur's Exalted Blade on the same level as Sayrn, Limbo and Equinox in terms of power isn't going to do you any favors in this argument.

Exalted Blade puts Excalibur in much more danger and is nowhere near the room wiper or room-wide crowd control of any of those frames.

Excalibur is strong, but he is nowhere NEAR Saryn/Mesa/Equinox/Volt levels of strong, and he certainly doesn't have the mass CC and defensive power of frames like Limbo or Frost.

You'd have to be out of your mind to say that Excalibur is a problem frame in terms of game balance.

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Boy, this is a difficult one.

Short answer: I'd like Kuva to be available much like Endo is; it's something you need, and nearly all forms of playing will get you small amounts of it that add up over time. There, that's it, the only thing I can say I want as a reward beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Long answer: It's incredibly hard for me to indicate what exactly it is that I want that wouldn't result in massive overhauls/changes that might even change Warframe into something that is, well, perhaps not even Warframe anymore. I've made a detailed thread on why I think not all content should be accessible immediately, and how this ties into long-term goals, but I didn't touch on what the rewards for those goals should be because I wholeheartedly think I don't understand this game well enough for me to be able to actually have good judgment in that regard.

People want all sorts of things, but sometimes the things we want are bad for us, or bad for the game. So many of the suggestions I read on these forums would lead to massive amounts of power creep, and honestly, we still barely have any pace where we can apply the power we have right now, let alone if we are given any more in the form of meaningful rewards that would only serve to make us even more powerful. On the flipside, much of the new "content" we get now is just more frames/weapons that allow us to do pretty much all the things we have been doing all alone.

Currently I'm not even looking for (more) rewards in this game, I'm looking for something that is challenging in the right ways so that it would actually merit a reward. 

The more I read about these sort of things, the less I understand what would actually be good for this game. I know a lot of players lack (non-frustrating) challenges, but when it comes to rewards? I have no idea what new rewards could even be implemented, I can honestly only comment on current in-game reward structures, and how, for example, grinding the same 5-minute mission for days on end to get a 5% drop as a reward feels incredibly boring, but beyond that I have very little clue as to what would make for good rewards that we don't already know. 

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6 hours ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Saryn limbo equinox Excal and more have press 4 to win abilities that go throw walls and require zero effort to run through lower content with. Does that mean they need to be nerfed as well

At least saryn involves some degree of interaction with the game. You cant just turn on her four and then go make a sandwich and continuously burn everything in hydron. And you cant just push one button and then not even attack anything on the way to extraction.

Excal is a bad argument. He isnt a nuke.

 

Neither is limbo.

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On 2019-08-27 at 3:10 PM, Chappie1975 said:

Partners also have an ulterior motive/need...and don't act like they don't.    Their needs for the game to produce content are different than the general population in terms of play.    In that way they are seriously disconnected.

I guess, but let's me honest, if you are going to have to play a game for livelyhood for literal hoirs, and have all that knowledge on the game you would at want the game to be fun and rewarding. I mean you say that like them suggesting better stuff for the game and the community is ultimately bad.

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18 hours ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

At least saryn involves some degree of interaction with the game. You cant just turn on her four and then go make a sandwich and continuously burn everything in hydron. And you cant just push one button and then not even attack anything on the way to extraction.

Excal is a bad argument. He isnt a nuke.

 

Neither is limbo.

Limbo with enough range and power nukes and kills low level enemies at the single press of 4

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Just going to add this in here: A "Certain Partner" just announced in their newest vid "Yeah, I KNOW the exact Game-Mode that would save Warframe, AND I know the Rewards to put in it too....but I ain't gonna tell y'all, cause I don't want DE to actually implement the idea and POSSIBLY do it, in what I consider, "The Wrong Way", so I'm going to just sit here and not actually say anything as I rile up my Fan-Base".

 

Paraphrased heavily, of course.....but still, whut?! You KNOW what you want, you KNOW it'll fix/save the game for Veteran and Invested Players, you even KNOW the Rewards to Implement in it to keep it relevant and highly sought.......but, you're not gonna say it cause, you know, DE might do the Line-Art or Color Layer wrong on your little Collab........Okay.......okay........................okay..............


DE: "What do y'all want?"

"Veteran" Warframe Partner: "I Know Exactly what I want, and How to Implement it.....but I AIN'T Telling!!!!"

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41 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Limbo with enough range and power nukes and kills low level enemies at the single press of 4

The simple fact that he needs to spam it makes it less bs. Equinox has to work for her dmg. Ember is the only frame that kills while doing absolutely nothing.

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