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Eidolons and the extremely violent plains


kapn655321
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Eidolons:
Next to impossible unless you leech.
                           vs
Trivial once you run an arbitrary meta build.

There's incredibly little middle there.
I have frames I've been playing for many years,
reliable loadouts I've taken everywhere else,
an amp I built because it sounded right to me..
and it's suuuper duper futile to fight even one in a night.

It's like raids all over again.
..I get the appeal of meeting a very strict standard,
fulfilling the role by the books..

Though as the downside was, it creates resentment in public parties.
Either you're the player who is slowing down this little meta situation,
or you trivialize the whole process with one of like 4 specific builds only.


To be frank the plains need to settle down.
It's just way heavy aggro the whole time, non stop.
How's a fella gonna get any fishing or hoverboard tricks in
if they're being assaulted by 3 grineer dropships, a pack of ghouls,
4 laser hucking death cubes, 2 Dargyns, a missile turret from a mile away,
and an energy puking kaiju that can't be killed with some 98% of
possible item combinations in the game?

This is on earth. New people go there. o_O
The plains have become so condensed and chaotic lately.
Chill.

If we want the plains hard, we can start missions with the Konzu kiosks.
Simmer down.

Anyone else feel that?

Edited by kapn655321
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34 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:

Anyone else feel that?

PoE is too easy. Maybe a “Passive” Bounty would be a good idea - no enemies spawn and you can fish/whatever in peace. 

  • You really need to make your thread more concise, it would be easier to see what you are talking about. (What is the relevance of your entire Tridolon rant?)
Edited by krc473
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7 hours ago, krc473 said:

PoE is too easy

I absolutely don't see how it's too easy.
Was there with a new player yesterday, and we couldn't move 40m without another attack squad leaping into action
 

 

7 hours ago, krc473 said:

What is the relevance of your entire Tridolon rant?


I can't beat an Eidolon, and thus I don't know what the other two even are.

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I don't really feel that. I'm a casual eidolon hunter - I join pubs, have only ~50 tricaps, no riven for my rubico, often forget to swap off zenurik before heading out 😄, the list of ways in which I am not optimal goes on for a bit...

Soloing teralyst is easy as soon as you get a basic amp that isn't the mote, and it's easy for middle-of-the-road (i.e. not absurdly minmaxed) players to contribute in public tricap bounties if there isn't someone with hyper-optimal dps setup doing all the work.

I'm thinking maybe you had a traumatizing experience hunting for Nightwave...some public bounties go terribly, I just had one with 2 people basically afk, no damage, refusing to grab lures...but most of them are pretty chill once you learn the rhythm of the attacks/phases.

Maybe we can start with your build. What frame, what weapon, what focus school are you bringing to solo teralyst?

(Edit: as for the rest, I used to find PoE free roam really annoying and hyperactive, too. But then I got Ivara and literally none of that matters. I fish in peace. I floofhunt in peace. I mine in peace. Open worlds are peaceful when you have an Ivara.)

Edited by sinnae
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I think when u enter the plains without going into a bounty, it automatically sets to the lowest possible level right? Shouldn't be all too difficult even with lower level players unless they haven't levels their mods to the point where they can survive. Maybe try using a frame that can go invisible while your there or even a rhino if you're newer. As far as tridolons, I feel the set standard but kn all honesty, the only frame imo that is needed is a trinity. U just need to find a frame that works for you and see if u can find a way to introduce them and show their benefit to the fight. Its not easy with the current pro quo but its achievable. Start with friends or clan mates and let world of mouth do the work for you. People still question the use of ivara until they see me play but a few folks here and there are quick to defend as well, so word is getting around

 

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10 hours ago, (PS4)Smooth81Criminal said:

I think when u enter the plains without going into a bounty, it automatically sets to the lowest possible level right? Shouldn't be all too difficult even with lower level players unless they haven't levels their mods to the point where they can survive. Maybe try using a frame that can go invisible while your there or even a rhino if you're newer. As far as tridolons, I feel the set standard but kn all honesty, the only frame imo that is needed is a trinity. U just need to find a frame that works for you and see if u can find a way to introduce them and show their benefit to the fight. Its not easy with the current pro quo but its achievable. Start with friends or clan mates and let world of mouth do the work for you. People still question the use of ivara until they see me play but a few folks here and there are quick to defend as well, so word is getting around

 

Nope. I remember when I was a newbie and went to the plains for the first time. That was a nightmare, I could barely stay alive. And then I did a low level bounty and it was rather easy.

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The plains is already incredibly easy even for someone a quarter of the way through the starchart or owning basic survivability and damage mods. To make it any easier would be an insult to even the worst player imaginable to be honest. Also do keep in mind players are meant to go through the starchart a bit before digging deep into the plains and DE would do good to bar people from doing anything the PoE quest before they are prepared enough to go in and do basic bounties without much trouble. But to suggest they nerf the plains just because newbies who arent truly meant to be their struggle is a complete joke!

Edited by (XB1)Zweimander
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On 2019-08-26 at 1:18 PM, kapn655321 said:

I absolutely don't see how it's too easy.
Was there with a new player yesterday, and we couldn't move 40m without another attack squad leaping into action
 

 


I can't beat an Eidolon, and thus I don't know what the other two even are.

It sounds to me like you just need to improve in the game and not blame the already easy content for your failures. If you have been playing since raids and still have not adapted to be able to trivialize Eidolons by now you need to look deep within yourself and go to the mountains to train. But Instead you say the plains themselves are to difficult and the sentiance on it is to hard to deflect just how bad you are at the game? I cannot take you seriously at all when you just sound trashier then Oscar the grouch from sesame street in an incredibly easy game... And he lives in a literal trash can so that says alot about your level of skill and modding ability XD

Edited by (XB1)Zweimander
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10 hours ago, FalikosekPL said:

Nope. I remember when I was a newbie and went to the plains for the first time. That was a nightmare, I could barely stay alive. And then I did a low level bounty and it was rather easy.

I remember a time when entering the plains had higher level enemies. That was actually nerfed for the sake if newer players. When you enter outside of bounties now (depending on how deep you go into the plains, say the mountain areas) you actually go in at the lowest level possible. Not sure how long it's been since you entered the plains without bounty or how far you might actually go but here's a start

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25 minutes ago, Peter said:

Eidolons is too easy, i see a lot of new players doing 2~3 hydros per night.

Theres still a decent portion if newbies that dont do so well, and really it all ties down to everyone in recruiting wanting 4x3, 5x3 runs and a requirement for 500+ caps. Nobody really wants to take the time to help newer players or walk them through the what's, hows, and whens of the mission. But yes, they are very easy assuming you know what to do.

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55 minutes ago, (PS4)Smooth81Criminal said:

Theres still a decent portion if newbies that dont do so well, and really it all ties down to everyone in recruiting wanting 4x3, 5x3 runs and a requirement for 500+ caps. Nobody really wants to take the time to help newer players or walk them through the what's, hows, and whens of the mission. But yes, they are very easy assuming you know what to do.

I mean, its easy to find low level hunts, i printed this right now, and actually you can be a good hunter with madurai Void Strike + Harrow and get 3x3+ parties without any issue.
4Rpbwid.png

What I do not agree with is comparing it to raids, in raid times you could only do with a strong clan and befriend important players, and the error tolerance was 0, you took an arcane every 40 minutes and could both come an arachne or a grace, and energize was exclusive of raid jordas.

There is elitism in eidolon just as there is in any other mission, but nothing comes close to elitism in raids.

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4 minutes ago, Peter said:

I mean, its easy to find low level hunts, i printed this right now, and actually you can be a good hunter with madurai Void Strike + Harrow and get 3x3+ parties without any issue.
4Rpbwid.png

What I do not agree with is comparing it to raids, in raid times you could only do with a strong clan and befriend important players, and the error tolerance was 0, you took an arcane every 40 minutes and could both come an arachne or a grace, and energize was exclusive of raid jordas.

There is elitism in eidolon just as there is in any other mission, but nothing comes close to elitism in raids.

That proves there is a different community on PC. When I look on PS4 for eidolon hunts, recruiting is all 4x3, 5x3 and if they dont saw it in chat, they ask you cap numbers when you send a private message. It's one of the reasons I started hosting for casual hunts and 9 out of 10, I end up recruiting newer players because they cant get in anywhere else. And I mean dont get me wrong, this isn't a complaint by any means, I actually enjoy helping newer players because really, we all have to start somewhere. But I just think those of us that dont mind on the PS4 is fat and few in between sadly.

And to your point on the comparison between raids and sidon hunts, I completely agree. 🙂

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On 2019-08-26 at 10:08 AM, kapn655321 said:

Eidolons:
Next to impossible unless you leech.
                           vs
Trivial once you run an arbitrary meta build.

There's incredibly little middle there.
I have frames I've been playing for many years,
reliable loadouts I've taken everywhere else,
an amp I built because it sounded right to me..
and it's suuuper duper futile to fight even one in a night.

It's like raids all over again.
..I get the appeal of meeting a very strict standard,
fulfilling the role by the books..

Though as the downside was, it creates resentment in public parties.
Either you're the player who is slowing down this little meta situation,
or you trivialize the whole process with one of like 4 specific builds only.


To be frank the plains need to settle down.
It's just way heavy aggro the whole time, non stop.
How's a fella gonna get any fishing or hoverboard tricks in
if they're being assaulted by 3 grineer dropships, a pack of ghouls,
4 laser hucking death cubes, 2 Dargyns, a missile turret from a mile away,
and an energy puking kaiju that can't be killed with some 98% of
possible item combinations in the game?

This is on earth. New people go there. o_O
The plains have become so condensed and chaotic lately.
Chill.

If we want the plains hard, we can start missions with the Konzu kiosks.
Simmer down.

... what's that? a poem?

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14 hours ago, (PS4)Smooth81Criminal said:

That proves there is a different community on PC. When I look on PS4 for eidolon hunts, recruiting is all 4x3, 5x3 and if they dont saw it in chat, they ask you cap numbers when you send a private message. It's one of the reasons I started hosting for casual hunts and 9 out of 10, I end up recruiting newer players because they cant get in anywhere else. And I mean dont get me wrong, this isn't a complaint by any means, I actually enjoy helping newer players because really, we all have to start somewhere. But I just think those of us that dont mind on the PS4 is fat and few in between sadly.

And to your point on the comparison between raids and sidon hunts, I completely agree. 🙂

If you were from the PC I would help you, always help who is starting, here eidolon was very easy and friendly, with little you already grow very fast, but really I do not know the situation of PS4 ;-;

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4 minutes ago, Peter said:

If you were from the PC I would help you, always help who is starting, here eidolon was very easy and friendly, with little you already grow very fast, but really I do not know the situation of PS4 ;-;

Its all good. I don't actually need help on Eidolon hunts, I'm normally the one offering to helps others. Just stating for comparison. 🙂

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On 2019-08-28 at 5:32 PM, (XB1)Zweimander said:

It sounds to me like you just need to improve in the game and not blame the already easy content for your failures.

When only a tight combined subset of items completes and objective, it's a set dungeon.
Not everyone plays that set.

The reason I don't play it because it's meta or nothing.. which is an odd thing for a game that has so much customizing and personalization.

Like, when people ask about, "What warframe is best?" and we respond, "Depends your playstyle.
Vs.
"How do I fight eidolons?" and people respond, "This one item, one amp, 3 frames, built like this only. Everything else is a waste of time."
Also, you should have things you get from fighting them.. because reasons.

Nothing that makes me play Chroma is on my to do list.
 

Edited by kapn655321
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2 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:

When only a tight combined subset of items completes and objective, it's a set dungeon.
Not everyone plays that set.

The reason I don't play it because it's meta or nothing.. which is an odd thing for a game that has so much customizing and personalization.

Like, when people ask about, "What warframe is best?" and we respond, "Depends your playstyle.
Vs.
"How do I fight eidolons?" and people respond, "This one item, one amp, 3 frames, built like this only. Everything else is a waste of time."

Well the plains are easy enough regardless and if you don't want to conform that is on you and only you. Its fine if you don't want to be optimal but when you ask for a whole open world to change because YOU don't like it then your in the wrong. You don't even need to be super meta to complete a tri cap either, you just need a decent squad with a trinity and Oberon/Harrow at the minimum with good sniper rifle to kill limbs. Amps can be optimal as well but I've used the same meh amp since they came out and nobody complains because it works just fine. I don't even play the meta super hard and my group can still get at least two or three tricaps in a night while screwing around. Besides, what is wrong with needing specialized gear to do something to begin with? Warframe needs more mission types where your gear choice matters more not less! Preference if fine and all but their are certain frames that do certain activities better and their is nothing wrong with that...

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37 minutes ago, (XB1)Zweimander said:

Well the plains are easy enough regardless and if you don't want to conform that is on you

There is a difficult balance between creating content that is for the 1% most refined in a game involving so many options.

Plains, I do not agree to be too easy.
It's on earth, where new people go, and Rapidly becomes endless squads of lvl 30+ popping up from behind every blade of grass.
Also, it has the 'Dolons that are for that 1% class.

It says you can go fishing and fly around on archwing and such, but it's more Ghouls, Dargyn, Turrets, and ceaseless fire from Grineer outposts.

I think perhaps if spawning the Eidolon was optional with moderate rebalance done to it's fight to be accessible to say.. a party of a Limbo, Titania, Volt, Khora, Vauban, Wukong.. all the other frames, and more weapons..
and Bounties were capable of getting harder without normal open world leveling up every minute? Then we could strike a balance.

You're right, it's easy with Trin, Oberon, Harrow, and Chroma, all with Rubico Primes or 3000p rivens on one or two other snipers..
But, that's 4 out of 41 warframes, and 1 out of How many guns? Doesn't make sense to me why it's like that.
 

Edited by kapn655321
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3 hours ago, kapn655321 said:

When only a tight combined subset of items completes and objective, it's a set dungeon.
Not everyone plays that set.

The reason I don't play it because it's meta or nothing.. which is an odd thing for a game that has so much customizing and personalization.

Like, when people ask about, "What warframe is best?" and we respond, "Depends your playstyle.
Vs.
"How do I fight eidolons?" and people respond, "This one item, one amp, 3 frames, built like this only. Everything else is a waste of time."
Also, you should have things you get from fighting them.. because reasons.

Nothing that makes me play Chroma is on my to do list.
 

Dont let masses control your play style. Granted the same frames are effective and efficient but really if modded and holding the right arcane, the only real most preferred frame is a trinity. Build a frame you're comfortable with, make a test run, if it doesnt work, evaluate and try again. That's what I did and I use Ivara over Chroma now.

3 hours ago, (XB1)Zweimander said:

Well the plains are easy enough regardless and if you don't want to conform that is on you and only you. Its fine if you don't want to be optimal but when you ask for a whole open world to change because YOU don't like it then your in the wrong. You don't even need to be super meta to complete a tri cap either, you just need a decent squad with a trinity and Oberon/Harrow at the minimum with good sniper rifle to kill limbs. Amps can be optimal as well but I've used the same meh amp since they came out and nobody complains because it works just fine. I don't even play the meta super hard and my group can still get at least two or three tricaps in a night while screwing around. Besides, what is wrong with needing specialized gear to do something to begin with? Warframe needs more mission types where your gear choice matters more not less! Preference if fine and all but their are certain frames that do certain activities better and their is nothing wrong with that...

I agree with some of this, but not all. You dont really need oberon or harrow. If u can get a a full rank nullifier arcane and combine that with a rank 1 or 2 nullifier arcane, you are set. I also run ivara and use Artemis bow, no sniper.

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13 minutes ago, (PS4)Smooth81Criminal said:

if it doesnt work, evaluate and try again.

That's the thing, really.

I have warframes that I've used for years,
weapons all top up with forma,
I know my way around the game.

There was no experience of, "if I tweak that a little,"
it's been wholesale, "Not even remotely close."
This is with end game gear.

You could say, "get good," if you like, but after 6k hours,
there's more to it than being unfamiliar with a few concepts.
That's where I'm coming from.

I didn't just try it once and say, "This is dumb."
I've thrown my best gear at this.
I know how it's done, I've taken part in successful runs, but I was carried.

With a fully leveled amp I made, weapons I would take to lvl 120,
and warframes that I've been refining for actual years.

Eidolons are only possible through very specific meta.
My BEST gear, I got 1 in a full night, with a party.
That does not fit the formula of this game.

Edited by kapn655321
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2 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:

That's the thing, really.

I have warframes that I've used for years,
weapons all top up with forma,
I know my way around the game.

There was no experience of, "if I tweak that a little,"
it's been wholesale, "Not even remotely close."
This is with end game gear.

You could say, "get good," if you like, but after 6k hours,
there's more to it than being unfamiliar with a few concepts.
That's where I'm coming from.

I didn't just try it once and say, "This is dumb."
I've thrown my best gear at this.
I know how it's done, I've taken part in successful runs, but I was carried.

With a fully leveled amp I made, weapons I would take to lvl 120,
and warframes that I've been refining for actual years.

Eidolons are only possible through very specific meta.
My BEST gear, I got 1 in a full night, with a party.
That does not fit the formula of this game.

If I can build an ivara for survivability (I dont think I need to explain how squishy she is) and a heavy hitter, I'm convinced just about any frame can do this. It's all about the right combination of contributors. Focus, mods, arcanes, etc. Its not a one size fits all. Mix and match and see how it goes

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On 2019-08-27 at 10:17 PM, (PS4)Smooth81Criminal said:

it automatically sets to the lowest possible level right?

Starts around 14-19, but ramps up rapidly.

Was in a party with a new player, and within 10 minutes of searching for Iradite,
there were lvl 40s and eximus, 2 patches of ghouls, 3 dargyns, 2 thumpers, etc, etc.

I found myself just saying, "Woah, Woah! Slow it Down there! There's no level cap for this,
what is with all this endless nonsense?"

It was nonstop bloodthirsy mayhem. I was shocked.
Plains used to be pretty mellow until you went into a grineer zone,
and even then it was a nuisance at times.
That was before they shrunk things down.
More often than not while in the plains, you're in range of missile turrets.

Then night, with endless vomvalasts that new folks can't kill..
so you gotta go spoiler mode on em, which makes me feel bad.

Whole place is whack and hyper aggro. Super not fun.
I only go there for the bare minimum time to accomplish a mission,
unless I go to the 1 fishing spot I like, that rarely gets grineer activity.
 

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