Could DE do something about „Contnent droughts“ ?

[TioMegaManX]

6 hours ago, LarryOtter said:

The community is crying about „Content droughts“ for years...

Maybe split DE in two teams one team working on big updates that surprise you at Tennocon like railjack and one Community/live team that World closely with the Community (listens to: feedback, player ideas etc...) and developed smaller updates between the big ones.

Yes this would mean that the big updates would be even slower because they would need to put developers on the community/Live team but that is a price I’m willing to pay...

What do you guys think ?

But they do, to stop people from "rushing" through content we have several time gates in place... sadly they are only stopping people without the resources from doing so, that is, the people who already play the game at a slower pace keep getting delayed by time gates and grind walls to not "rush" the content, meanwhile veterans and whales have enough experience and resources to play through all that "new" content faster, each time DE wants to pad the game more the ones who suffer are the ones who take their time to play through all of it, is it the veterans fault? nope, some people at DE just can't handle the idea that content will be played in less time than it takes to develop, furthermore, when they add challenge they only add more numbers so any player who doesn't go by the tank+dps meta will have to grind for a tank+dps of their own.

[844448]

49 minutes ago, Ikyr0 said:

Neither. 

Steve is aware of this at least, as per the latest dev stream: current gameplay loops lack intrinsic rewards. Because they decided a few years ago to simply keep throwing rewards at players and build their business around it (see Scott scoffing at Steve), transitioning to intrinsic rewards is probably very difficult for them, if not impossible.

Their current model burns out the players, probably makes them do a lot of extra work, and doesn't solve the retention problems WF has been having over the last year or so (note: while the game's pop is fine, the turnover of new players and vets is a lot greater, which is backed up by Steam data).

WF needs to make the game more accessible to newcomers, while improving intrinsic rewards (i.e. making game modes fun and engaging again, regardless of extrinsic rewards). They can actually easily achieve this by implementing more mechanical skill checks in missions, kind of like the Exploiter and Ropalolyst fights. Leave the power creeped weapons for clearing trash as it's currently. It's the only way to make Kuva Liches interesting.

It's kinda hard to take your words when you have a thread about not wanting to do things with many reasons and ask for more content when you have many to do

[844448]

4 hours ago, Monolake said:

Old content is years old, we've been doing same missions on the same maps for 1000s of times. The primes farming nodes haven't changed in years. It's the same maps over and over since relics introduction waay back in 2016 (they might have changed a couple, new Uranus def and the Jupiter got updated but that's it) Hello DE, reshuffle the maps and add other into rotation already please! XP and relic farm is the same - drop tables need reshuffling. You want a self-sustained replayable system, you need variety and rotation. But everyone goes to same few maps like Hydron because its an efficient small map with relics and good XP gains - no point to go to other places.

And because you choose the efficient way and refuse to play something else, it's not your fault if it's getting boring? Also what kind of "add other into rotation already" do you want?

4 hours ago, Monolake said:

Not only it's old, it's boring and absolutely trivial. Sorties are trivial (even new player faceroll them now, unlike 4 years ago), ESO is trivial (and just a dull ability spam with efficient premade to get your daily focus). Ult spam killed action gameplay. Eidolons - trivial routine for experienced players (still the best new addition to WF in my opinion but it gets old too and it's time-gated).

They're trivial because we have our power increasing over time, with all of those riven, new weapons and mods. You prefer have no more stronger weapon but has interesting system in it? I doubt you will be using it more than bringing it to hydron to level up and throw it away because it's MR fodder than isn't any stronger than your meta weapons

4 hours ago, Monolake said:

DE adamantly refuses to make harder content available. Arbitrations still start slow, have pathetic spawns (depending on a map) and the main problem is you cant chose, you get a game mode you don't want to play for 5-6 hrs. What does it achieve other that making me close WF and go play something else? Oh and they are locked and hidden too, I bet only few% of players ever reach them.

We had harder content called terra corpus available and guess what happens? People are crying to DE asking for their nerf because veterans can't just use inaros to tank their hits with new players as excuse when they hardly hit any harder than your normal corpus unit

Arbitration? Look at that one life mode, people are crying again to have a second chance to face it by adding revive token

4 hours ago, Monolake said:

Then there is no progress to motivate, there are no meaningful rewards, we've become too overpowered to care about anything (Eidolons were good because they gave people new progression and motivation to max operators focus and amps. And they reward skill, teamplay and give good rewards. This is the kind of content WF needs. And people still play it.)

No progress? So you want more power creep on enemies so you have to progress more on your power? Also are you really that overpowered? Can you one shot those terra corpus without relying on your meta gears like saryn and tigris prime? I would like to see it

4 hours ago, Monolake said:

And Fortuna deserves its own topic - its a huge empty dead decoration that people wont play. Anyone wants to go seal fractures (which is just a mobile defense - game mode everyone considers the most boring). Or grind for toroids huh (which 95% of people dont even know where to farm, thanks to obfuscation by design). Most people never even max Solaris United because bounties are no fun and the daily cap turns it into a giant wait-wall.  And Ventkids are so buggy you might not even get them to load - maybe that's why only 0.5% of accounts got Kdrive achievements?

How many people ever got to Profittaker or got to play new frames (and Khora is not even new but still locked behind trerrible grind). And Ropalolist is locked behind quests that people cant find... There is actually quite a bit of content no one plays because it's locked and hidden so well. DE totally shoot themselves in the foot.

TLDR Old content been to beaten death years ago and is too boring. A lot of new content is buried and hidden.

 

If you don't know, many of old games have these locked and hidden things and they don't even give you a single hint on it

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

4 minutes ago, 844448 said:

We had harder content called terra corpus available and guess what happens? People are crying to DE asking for their nerf because veterans can't just use inaros to tank their hits with new players as excuse when they hardly hit any harder than your normal corpus unit

Arbitration? Look at that one life mode, people are crying again to have a second chance to face it by adding revive token

No vet has complained about either of these being hard... in fact everyone is still upset and denying revives in Arby’s .... also the terra corpus aren’t hard and I’ve yet to see a hardcore player complain about the difficulty ☹️....

Edited August 27, 2019 by (PS4)sweatshawp

[844448]

19 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

No vet has complained about either of these being hard... in fact everyone is still upset and denying revives in Arby’s .... also the terra corpus aren’t hard and I’ve yet to see a hardcore player complain about the difficulty ☹️....

Really? I found these statements in forums

Really, ever since I saw the level 45 ones on the fissure events taking infinitely longer to die than the level 45 MOAs, I knew something wasn't right, specially when MOAs and crewmen are basically lancers and troopers, all trash enemies that you should easily dispatch, specially since the crewmen outside Vallis behave exactly like that. Why this buff has been given to an unit that spawns so often is beyond me, and why it has been kept this way for so long just makese me question the sanity of some people.

"But just get a strong meta weapon xD", to which I'd reply I shouldn't need to overdo my damage when the MOAs die in one, and rarely two, shots from my Nagantaka, while the crewmen take over six and there are many more of them.

- A MR 22 player

 

Sadly this is a general issue with the game overall. Vallis should, in theory, house mostly weak enemies, with some heavy hitters here and there. Because of how the entire health/damage scaling system works (percentage based), they can go bonkers pretty easily. There is a reason corrosive projection is the most powerfull aura in the game.

As it is right now, newer/non-meta builds are going to suffer in anything between "lvl 1 moas" and "lvl sortie bombard", because the game pretty much doesn't have mid-game. You are a noob until you can either one-shot everything, tank everything, or both.

This issue became far worse after the Void keys change, because insanely powerfull builds meant for long def/supp were left without objective, essentially destroying the meta. Right now you have map-busting saryns farming relics with "i just got my Dread" excals. Remember that eidolons were implemented the way they are, to prevent being steamrolled by the veterans.

As long as DE resist to nerf the endgame content AND BUILDS (via tone down of mods), we will keep having this issue.

You probably are going to find it easier to change your weapons, because this topic has been addressed by the comunity since FOREVER (i've been playing for over 4 years, i remember when the max MR was 17) and we are still waiting for a real solution.

- A MR 26 player

 

Not to beat the same old drum, but the Terra Corpus are an utter mess, as well as a good example of how NOT to design a new enemy faction. They have all the gimmicks of the Corpus - Nullifiers, puncture damage, heavy emphasis on control. They have a plethora of units plastered with Grineer armour, as well as a bunch of not-armoured-but-still-damn tanky infantry, along with big guns and heavy damage. They come in large numbers and have almost Infested levels of melee rushers. In short, they have everything - the balance point you reach when you officially don't know how to make a game challenging any more. Just throw all of the things at the player, and to hell with unique factions.

On top of this, the Terra Corpus have their own, much more aggressive level scaling for no reason other than to pile on some higher numbers on them - the other balance point you reach when you're out of ideas. So you stick around a place farming Terra Corpus for toroids, but those level 70 enemies you'd normally handle easily are now hitting like they're level 100 or so. Why bother? If you wanted the Terra Corpus to be really high level, just make them really high level. Obfuscating their levels by pretending they're 50 levels lower is just dishonest, because it looks like DE wanted to hide their actual level.

To my eternal relief, the Vapos Corpus don't seem to have followed the same design. They have a few unique enemies (including the melee Nullifier, yikes!) but generally follow the established Corpus design. I hope that one day the Terra Corpus will get a sanity check and be brought a bit more into line with how the Corpus should fight, and how level scaling is supposed to work.

- A MR 23 player

[DrakeRemorea]

There isn't a content drought, it's the player. Playing the same game gets boring, no matter the game. It's up to the player to decide if it's worth continuing playing, if so, don't complain about no content, because this game has a lot to offer, a lot. I understand it can be repetitive and seemingly doing the same thing. But thats every game... Most games get boring, I've never found a game I haven't got bored of, but I don't complain about content.

Take Garrys Mod for example, they have soooo much content, tons on tons of different games, and servers, and addons. That game still got boring, I'd never sat it was a content issue. But because no matter the content, the game is the same.

Also Payday 2. They've released so much skill updates, perk decks, so much DLC content, so many new heists, I have them all. The game still got boring. Because it's always the same game you continue to play, just it becomes boring. 

However after taking a break, and coming back a few weeks or months later, you will realize all the things you wanna do because there is content, just no interest.

[Lasura]

7 hours ago, Fire2box said:

Warframe isn't a free to play game. I've never seen more then one account "finish" the game (objective was get to sorties, do one solo, end account) without trading and with turning off gifts and no buying plat/prime access. People do not play this way. What people do is either they buy or trade for plat so they can keep warframes and guns. someone, somewhere pays so people can play Warframe. Atop of this they have cosmetics. 

As for what DE will use money on from cosmetics. Why make content that needs scripts, level designs, lore work, etc when they can simply make more cosmetics to sell for more money? 

What happened after they released Roombas for 100p each? They release a 6 pack of colored ones with one being normal for 500p. They didn't make a mini gamemode based upon them. And I personally spent around 5,000 plat on them. 

Stop trying to redefine free to play. I know people who haven't spent a penny of real cash on the game and get all their plat from trading with others. That is free to play. You can't put someone who trades plat into the same boat as those who buy it. It is completely possible to "finish" the game and not pay anything or pay extremely little for what the game is worth and people do play that way. Just because you don't doesn't mean no one does. Purchasing platinum is optional and you can get around it with a little hard work.

Most people just find the game worth paying for and treat themselves to some plat. DE has to keep it that way and that's great incentive to work on new space ninja stuff.

If you want them to work on new content and not cosmetics, vote with your wallet and stop buying the cosmetics. Except... you know you love that stuff too!

[AuroraSonicBoom]

7 hours ago, 844448 said:

Define "intrinsic reward"

A sense of pride and accomplishment(no really), that doesn't rely on temporary endorphin rushes in the form of little rewards to keep you playing. Feeling satisfied playing the game's core gameplay by itself. People used to do that all the time back in the day, and the idea that the only kind of endlessly repayable content in games is PvP is an antiquated excuse IMO. City builders are the best example of how PvE games can have game mechanics that are rewarding on to play on their own, regardless of whether there are unlocks or special rewards.

People also used to play strategy games in coop against bots instead of other people. The common denominator here is that PvE games can have endless replayability in the same way PvP has it, but that requires the player to feel like they can interact with the world in a significant way, with the world either sharing a quick progression path that can be reset over and over again, and differs in a myriad of details on every playthrough(city builders) or one that balances out should the scales be tipped too far into one direction. Hard resets of game worlds are unfeasible in online games with established long term progression for the most part, but you dont need that if you the game world reacts to the player base to entice them into balancing it themselves.

I've elaborated on how to turn warframe into a living world where player action matters in other threads, but I can do that here again should you want more specific examples.

[bronzebonobo]

9 hours ago, Fire2box said:

They already do this. The thing is DE makes far more money from cosmetics then doing heavy lore updates. How much money did DE make off The War Within vs dropping a tennogen pack? 

After you think about that, why would DE go after anything else?

Literally everyone and their mothers dog bought the war bundle for war and the stalker armor, come to think of it I was the only one who didn't buy it out of the 6 of us including me that played heavily back then, releasing interesting cosmetics with a huge new update was a smart move on their part, it can be done but piggy backing off tennogen is not a good idea when they have creative talent there to be tapped into. 

Your claim is false though, it can be done and they have shown they can do it.

Also releasing no content for months on end is not a good idea considering warframe really has no replayable content besides maybe arcanes and that other game mode that requires a saryn or nuke equinox.  Getting healthy game updates> Getting cosmetics shoved down our throats for months on end. Unless your into cosmetics which  is good for you but I Guestimate a very large portion of the playerbase is here for the actual gameplay. 

To address your second statement it is very true. DE has gotten lazier and lazier over the years opting to just shove cosmetics down our throats more often because........ well it sells and they get to be lazy about it which creates stagnation of updates etc. and the "why should I try hard when the money keeps coming?" I don't really see way in which this could be remedied easy, it would basically take us to stop buying cosmetics or for them to start dropping massive amounts of players to light a fire under them and get them moving again but that will probably never happen but i guess someone could dream maybe? Anyways yeah it is a big issue. 

[Lost_Cartographer]

It's hard to provide new content on a regular basis when no one sees that content as actual content.  They're trying to intersperse the long periods between huge content updates with small things like Nightwave, Jupiter remaster, Disruption missions, Tenno Reinforcements, new Warframes both normal and prime, etc, but everyone's eyes are on their own capital ship and these little snacks are treated as white noise.

They're not going to be producing Railjack and New War and what follows noticeably faster with 100% team commitment.  It's not like not doing any of the listed items will shave off 3-6 months of development time for the big updates.

Edited August 27, 2019 by Lost_Cartographer

[Ikyr0]

3 hours ago, 844448 said:

It's kinda hard to take your words when you have a thread about not wanting to do things with many reasons and ask for more content when you have many to do

You have some serious reading comprehension issues, and what seems to be a personal vendetta against me. Debunking your garbage is honestly much too exhausting, and you seem to have a very specific agenda of blindly shilling for DE, so I will go ahead an ignore your posts from now on.

As I stated in that very thread, I've unlocked and maxed everything that I want. Crafting and grinding pointlessly isn't content to me, and many others. Frames and weapons aren't content, they're tools to do game modes with. And the latter is severely lacking. DE themselves recognize the lack of intrinsic rewards and are working on solutions. 

Edited August 27, 2019 by Ikyr0

[844448]

3 minutes ago, Ikyr0 said:

You have some serious reading comprehension issues, and what seems to be a personal vendetta against me. Debunking your garbage is honestly much too exhausting, so I will go ahead and block you permanently now. 

As I stated in that very thread, I've unlocked and maxed everything that I want. Crafting and grinding pointlessly isn't content to me, and many others. Frames and weapons aren't content, they're tools to do game modes with. And the latter is severely lacking. DE themselves recognize this, but I guess you don't.

And you ignore the other part of my comment and block me afterwards? When you don't want to do things for many reasons like this?

 

looks at focus points. maxed out. Pass on ESO.

looks at Void Fissures. Plenty of primed junk for Baro this week. Pass.

starts Arbie. Defense-Infestation, again. FML, alt-f4.

 

If you yourself don't want to play, no matter how good the game with mechanical skill checks you will find reasons not to play it

[(PSN)deathwolfclaw666]

Add a mission creator. I'd spend a good amount of time creating maps and modes such as a boss rush, a combine rescue and exterminate mission. It could also help solve the challenge issue. 

[LarryOtter]

vor 31 Minuten schrieb Ikyr0:

Frames and weapons aren't content

Weapons aren’t content frames on the other hand are in my view : 

you grind for them, level them, find Interisting and fun combos and create a build for them...

[Swagernator22663]

5 minutes ago, LarryOtter said:

you grind for them, level them, find Interisting and fun combos and create a build for them...

And after that you throw the away and never use them again.

[Oreades]

54 minutes ago, Lost_Cartographer said:

It's hard to provide new content on a regular basis when no one sees that content as actual content.

So much this, doubly hard when their Partners *cough Rio cough* go on hyperbolic rants to their viewer base spouting nonsense about the game having no content for X period of time when actual mainline updates had fallen within that time frame..... but hey acknowledging those wouldn't be good for hyperbolic rants so I guess they never happened ryt

[Monolake]

1 hour ago, 844448 said:

And because you choose the efficient way and refuse to play something else, it's not your fault if it's getting boring? Also what kind of "add other into rotation already" do you want?

They're trivial because we have our power increasing over time, with all of those riven, new weapons and mods. You prefer have no more stronger weapon but has interesting system in it? I doubt you will be using it more than bringing it to hydron to level up and throw it away because it's MR fodder than isn't any stronger than your meta weapons

We had harder content called terra corpus available and guess what happens? People are crying to DE asking for their nerf because veterans can't just use inaros to tank their hits with new players as excuse when they hardly hit any harder than your normal corpus unit

Arbitration? Look at that one life mode, people are crying again to have a second chance to face it by adding revive token

No progress? So you want more power creep on enemies so you have to progress more on your power? Also are you really that overpowered? Can you one shot those terra corpus without relying on your meta gears like saryn and tigris prime? I would like to see it

If you don't know, many of old games have these locked and hidden things and they don't even give you a single hint on it

Players will always 'optimize' the fun out of the game if they have the opportunity, you cant fault the players finding the best strategies. It's developers job to balance the game to prevent that and to have variety. DE fails to do it. Then they wonder why is no one playing Kuva fortress (or whatever) - because there is no incentive, no reason to play it.  No content - more like dead content. Why are those unplayed maps not added to relics fissures rotations or given better rewards to incentivize the players?

We've warned about powercreep 5 years ago, we warned about AOE nukes - DE didn't listen. We get much stronger gear but we dont even get anywhere to use it so its all meaningless. And its not just incrementally stronger like a normal sane progress would be - how it is in any RPG-ish game. It's stupid level OP delete the entire map 1-shot anything OP (no exaggeration, lvl9999 - doesn't matter). It ruined the game.

DEs mistake listening to incapable players but ignoring all the veteran requests just for *optional* harder content. 99% of game is already trivial boring, adding even a single hard mission (that wont make you wait hours) - nope. (Adding a revive token was a good idea for teamplay btw but ultimately who cares about 1 life, there are frames who just can't die to lvl~100)

And then it backfires when people dont even care to improve their gear and skill because there is no point in it - so no reason to play.  No meaningful progression. Nothing to conquer. Kitguns are MR0 - kill everything, never need another weapon. How is that good design? Everyone was ranting about it years ago - even well-known partners like Mogamu. Did DE listen? They've designed progression only for operators/Eidolons. But that was maxed in a ~month casually.

And DE aren't helping new players either to make the game more accessible and easy to learn to them if we talk about that and new players complaining. Making everything trivial even on the higher end is not helping anyone. Most people run into a wall in WF not because its hard but because they don't know what to do.

"locked and hidden things and they don't even give you a single hint on it" - so almost no one can play it and complain about no content to play, well done DE, all the hard work for nothing. Fortuna needs a massive overhaul so maybe more people will actually play it instead of complaining about Nightwave.

 

[844448]

7 minutes ago, Monolake said:

Players will always 'optimize' the fun out of the game if they have the opportunity, you cant fault the players finding the best strategies. It's developers job to balance the game to prevent that and to have variety. DE fails to do it. Then they wonder why is no one playing Kuva fortress (or whatever) - because there is no incentive, no reason to play it.  No content - more like dead content. Why are those unplayed maps not added to relics fissures rotations or given better rewards to incentivize the players?

See the problem here? Players will always 'optimize' the fun out of the game if they have opportunity, it makes me feel like I'm the odd one or different type that plays just for the fun out of it no matter how many times I've done it and the incentive is hard to decide when there are people that refuse to play when then incentive is many and how can one define "better rewards"? Because once the rewards run out, it's back to empty again

10 minutes ago, Monolake said:

We've warned about powercreep 5 years ago, we warned about AOE nukes - DE didn't listen. We get much stronger gear but we dont even get anywhere to use it so its all meaningless. And its not just incrementally stronger like a normal sane progress would be - how it is in any RPG-ish game. It's stupid level OP delete the entire map 1-shot anything OP (no exaggeration, lvl9999 - doesn't matter). It ruined the game.

DEs mistake listening to incapable players but ignoring all the veteran requests just for *optional* harder content. 99% of game is already trivial boring, adding even a single hard mission (that wont make you wait hours) - nope. (Adding a revive token was a good idea for teamplay btw but ultimately who cares about 1 life, there are frames who just can't die to lvl~100)

And then it backfires when people dont even care to improve their gear and skill because there is no point in it - so no reason to play.  No meaningful progression. Nothing to conquer. Kitguns are MR0 - kill everything, never need another weapon. How is that good design? Everyone was ranting about it years ago - even well-known partners like Mogamu. Did DE listen? They've designed progression only for operators/Eidolons. But that was maxed in a ~month casually.

And DE aren't helping new players either to make the game more accessible and easy to learn to them if we talk about that and new players complaining. Making everything trivial even on the higher end is not helping anyone. Most people run into a wall in WF not because its hard but because they don't know what to do.

This is the problem, we can find these statements in the forums

Really, ever since I saw the level 45 ones on the fissure events taking infinitely longer to die than the level 45 MOAs, I knew something wasn't right, specially when MOAs and crewmen are basically lancers and troopers, all trash enemies that you should easily dispatch, specially since the crewmen outside Vallis behave exactly like that. Why this buff has been given to an unit that spawns so often is beyond me, and why it has been kept this way for so long just makese me question the sanity of some people.

"But just get a strong meta weapon xD", to which I'd reply I shouldn't need to overdo my damage when the MOAs die in one, and rarely two, shots from my Nagantaka, while the crewmen take over six and there are many more of them.

- A MR 22 player

 

Sadly this is a general issue with the game overall. Vallis should, in theory, house mostly weak enemies, with some heavy hitters here and there. Because of how the entire health/damage scaling system works (percentage based), they can go bonkers pretty easily. There is a reason corrosive projection is the most powerfull aura in the game.

As it is right now, newer/non-meta builds are going to suffer in anything between "lvl 1 moas" and "lvl sortie bombard", because the game pretty much doesn't have mid-game. You are a noob until you can either one-shot everything, tank everything, or both.

This issue became far worse after the Void keys change, because insanely powerfull builds meant for long def/supp were left without objective, essentially destroying the meta. Right now you have map-busting saryns farming relics with "i just got my Dread" excals. Remember that eidolons were implemented the way they are, to prevent being steamrolled by the veterans.

As long as DE resist to nerf the endgame content AND BUILDS (via tone down of mods), we will keep having this issue.

You probably are going to find it easier to change your weapons, because this topic has been addressed by the comunity since FOREVER (i've been playing for over 4 years, i remember when the max MR was 17) and we are still waiting for a real solution.

- A MR 26 player

 

Not to beat the same old drum, but the Terra Corpus are an utter mess, as well as a good example of how NOT to design a new enemy faction. They have all the gimmicks of the Corpus - Nullifiers, puncture damage, heavy emphasis on control. They have a plethora of units plastered with Grineer armour, as well as a bunch of not-armoured-but-still-damn tanky infantry, along with big guns and heavy damage. They come in large numbers and have almost Infested levels of melee rushers. In short, they have everything - the balance point you reach when you officially don't know how to make a game challenging any more. Just throw all of the things at the player, and to hell with unique factions.

On top of this, the Terra Corpus have their own, much more aggressive level scaling for no reason other than to pile on some higher numbers on them - the other balance point you reach when you're out of ideas. So you stick around a place farming Terra Corpus for toroids, but those level 70 enemies you'd normally handle easily are now hitting like they're level 100 or so. Why bother? If you wanted the Terra Corpus to be really high level, just make them really high level. Obfuscating their levels by pretending they're 50 levels lower is just dishonest, because it looks like DE wanted to hide their actual level.

To my eternal relief, the Vapos Corpus don't seem to have followed the same design. They have a few unique enemies (including the melee Nullifier, yikes!) but generally follow the established Corpus design. I hope that one day the Terra Corpus will get a sanity check and be brought a bit more into line with how the Corpus should fight, and how level scaling is supposed to work.

- A MR 23 player

 

This makes the biggest question : what is the thing that define or decide you're a veteran or not? I myself still can't one shot those terra corpus at level 50+ so care to share your non-meta gear builds for that? Also with how players nowadays rarely want to learn and just want to be strong instantly, I don't think old model where you have to learn will work, even we have a thread saying New Loka death squad is too sponge-y so do you have any idea to fix that?

Lastly, I like this OP style, maybe not for everyone but I like to see myself one shot those enemies

17 minutes ago, Monolake said:

"locked and hidden things and they don't even give you a single hint on it" - so almost no one can play it and complain about no content to play, well done DE, all the hard work for nothing. Fortuna needs a massive overhaul so maybe more people will actually play it instead of complaining about Nightwave.

I would like to know how many hints do we need to be considered clear. Fortuna is clear enough in terms of gameplay to me so what's the thing about it that isn't clear enough?

[Monolake]

1 hour ago, 844448 said:

And you ignore the other part of my comment and block me afterwards? When you don't want to do things for many reasons like this?

 

looks at focus points. maxed out. Pass on ESO.

looks at Void Fissures. Plenty of primed junk for Baro this week. Pass.

starts Arbie. Defense-Infestation, again. FML, alt-f4.

 

If you yourself don't want to play, no matter how good the game with mechanical skill checks you will find reasons not to play it

And why would he want to play that? No one looks for reasons to NOT play, but for a reason TO PLAY, yet game doesn't provide any, how is that hard to understand?

[844448]

8 minutes ago, Monolake said:

And why would he want to play that? No one looks for reasons to NOT play, but for a reason TO PLAY, yet game doesn't provide any, how is that hard to understand?

Anyone can find excuses to not play like that one person did

Don't want to do ESO because focus is maxed

Don't want to play fissures because have plenty of junk

So, really, people can find so many excuses if they don't want to do something. How hard to understand that?

[Monolake]

6 minutes ago, 844448 said:

See the problem here? Players will always 'optimize' the fun out of the game if they have opportunity, it makes me feel like I'm the odd one or different type that plays just for the fun out of it no matter how many times I've done it and the incentive is hard to decide when there are people that refuse to play when then incentive is many and how can one define "better rewards"? Because once the rewards run out, it's back to empty again

This is the problem, we can find these statements in the forums

Really, ever since I saw the level 45 ones on the fissure events taking infinitely longer to die than the level 45 MOAs, I knew something wasn't right, specially when MOAs and crewmen are basically lancers and troopers, all trash enemies that you should easily dispatch, specially since the crewmen outside Vallis behave exactly like that. Why this buff has been given to an unit that spawns so often is beyond me, and why it has been kept this way for so long just makese me question the sanity of some people.

"But just get a strong meta weapon xD", to which I'd reply I shouldn't need to overdo my damage when the MOAs die in one, and rarely two, shots from my Nagantaka, while the crewmen take over six and there are many more of them.

- A MR 22 player

 

Sadly this is a general issue with the game overall. Vallis should, in theory, house mostly weak enemies, with some heavy hitters here and there. Because of how the entire health/damage scaling system works (percentage based), they can go bonkers pretty easily. There is a reason corrosive projection is the most powerfull aura in the game.

As it is right now, newer/non-meta builds are going to suffer in anything between "lvl 1 moas" and "lvl sortie bombard", because the game pretty much doesn't have mid-game. You are a noob until you can either one-shot everything, tank everything, or both.

This issue became far worse after the Void keys change, because insanely powerfull builds meant for long def/supp were left without objective, essentially destroying the meta. Right now you have map-busting saryns farming relics with "i just got my Dread" excals. Remember that eidolons were implemented the way they are, to prevent being steamrolled by the veterans.

As long as DE resist to nerf the endgame content AND BUILDS (via tone down of mods), we will keep having this issue.

You probably are going to find it easier to change your weapons, because this topic has been addressed by the comunity since FOREVER (i've been playing for over 4 years, i remember when the max MR was 17) and we are still waiting for a real solution.

- A MR 26 player

 

Not to beat the same old drum, but the Terra Corpus are an utter mess, as well as a good example of how NOT to design a new enemy faction. They have all the gimmicks of the Corpus - Nullifiers, puncture damage, heavy emphasis on control. They have a plethora of units plastered with Grineer armour, as well as a bunch of not-armoured-but-still-damn tanky infantry, along with big guns and heavy damage. They come in large numbers and have almost Infested levels of melee rushers. In short, they have everything - the balance point you reach when you officially don't know how to make a game challenging any more. Just throw all of the things at the player, and to hell with unique factions.

On top of this, the Terra Corpus have their own, much more aggressive level scaling for no reason other than to pile on some higher numbers on them - the other balance point you reach when you're out of ideas. So you stick around a place farming Terra Corpus for toroids, but those level 70 enemies you'd normally handle easily are now hitting like they're level 100 or so. Why bother? If you wanted the Terra Corpus to be really high level, just make them really high level. Obfuscating their levels by pretending they're 50 levels lower is just dishonest, because it looks like DE wanted to hide their actual level.

To my eternal relief, the Vapos Corpus don't seem to have followed the same design. They have a few unique enemies (including the melee Nullifier, yikes!) but generally follow the established Corpus design. I hope that one day the Terra Corpus will get a sanity check and be brought a bit more into line with how the Corpus should fight, and how level scaling is supposed to work.

- A MR 23 player

 

This makes the biggest question : what is the thing that define or decide you're a veteran or not? I myself still can't one shot those terra corpus at level 50+ so care to share your non-meta gear builds for that? Also with how players nowadays rarely want to learn and just want to be strong instantly, I don't think old model where you have to learn will work, even we have a thread saying New Loka death squad is too sponge-y so do you have any idea to fix that?

Lastly, I like this OP style, maybe not for everyone but I like to see myself one shot those enemies

I would like to know how many hints do we need to be considered clear. Fortuna is clear enough in terms of gameplay to me so what's the thing about it that isn't clear enough?

I dont know whats fun to you, but to most people there is no fun when there is not even decision making involved, let alone challenge. Missions are just waitwalls or quick runs for another roll at reward. And it's all been done literally hundreds of times by long-time players. No fun left.

Not sure why you quoted those people. its mostly complains about inconsistency and game not communicating to player - as it's often the case with WF. And someone will always complain. I will complain that I can afk and go for a tea while Im doing fractures at max level alarm and there is nothing interesting, engaging or challenging, just dull grind with waitwalls that almost no one seems to want to play. Most of WF is like that.  And it's fine that *most* of the content is easy for all the players even new ones, the problem is that there is almost nothing above that. That guy about powerful builds having no use, just face-rolling the low level fissures, ruining the game for noobs who wont even see enemies alive, is spot on.

If you wonder what can dispatch high levels - melee scales into orbit and you can hit for millions of damage when you stack BR combo and CO for one thing. Snipers oneshot lvl150s even with minimum combo. That is before buffs that can make your damage 1000x more (if you stack team buffs it can get absurd) so you can obliterate anything even with Lato if you set yourself a challenge.

"players nowadays rarely want to learn and just want to be strong instantly"   -  and then they quickly get bored, complain about 'no endgame' and quit, while the game is ruined for everyone because DE can't balance but tried to cater to those people who want to play with cheats on. Yes balancing difficulty is very hard especially in a massively huge game like WF but looks like DE simply gave up on it all together and wont fix even the most glaring issues. And once they wanted to change damage system and melee and everyone told them that the announced changes were bad they just cancelled it. But thats another topic entirely.

"Fortuna is clear enough in terms of gameplay to me so what's the thing about it that isn't clear enough"

its a total resource mess you absolutely need wiki to navigate and the progress is waitwalled - as a result very very few people even maxed United to see Vox solaris that locks out lots of content like Ive already said. Even all the wiki comments complain about it and majority of the people never read wiki - they simply stop playing.

[Monolake]

1 hour ago, 844448 said:

Anyone can find excuses to not play like that one person did

Don't want to do ESO because focus is maxed

Don't want to play fissures because have plenty of junk

So, really, people can find so many excuses if they don't want to do something. How hard to understand that?

Again, game should provide a motivation to play - there is none. It's no a job you have to do, by default no one wants to do anything (and heck even a job has to pay or give other benefits to make people want to do it).  Your view is totally backwards.

And  if you say 'but play it for fun' - back to my other post, there is no fun doing the same thing for 100th time in trivial missions that are no more than waitwalls. No intrinsic or extrinsic motivation left for us.

Edited August 27, 2019 by Monolake

[844448]

1 minute ago, Monolake said:

Again, game should provide a motivation to play - there is none. It's no a job you have to do, by default no one wants to do anything (and heck even a job has to pay or give other benefits to make people want to do it).  Your view is totally backwards.

I still play E Prime and Mariana exterminate on earth, are you still playing it? If no, why? If yes, why?

[MouadSaqui]

12 hours ago, Fire2box said:

They already do this. The thing is DE makes far more money from cosmetics then doing heavy lore updates. How much money did DE make off The War Within vs dropping a tennogen pack? 

After you think about that, why would DE go after anything else?

Tennogen is not made by DE, its from the steam workshop created by individual artists sold to players in game, profits are shared between DE and artists (as far as i know)

But what De could do is they could've included cosmetics in the war within, Like that Teshin armor for operators, or his Sword skin for nikanas, more possibilities are possible and DE is Lazy to do that

[Chicken-Biryani]

41 minutes ago, 844448 said:

I still play E Prime and Mariana exterminate on earth, are you still playing it? If no, why? If yes, why?

You want a cookie for that? Quit downplaying others opinions just because you are happy repeating the same old stuff a gazillion times. I think you want a medal of honor for this from DE or something. Because everytime someone says they are bored or dissatisfied with the game, you are there blaring a trumpet "I am fine, satisfied with the greatest game on planet, so should you be!".