If given the power which starter frame would you replace...

[S.Dust]

Mag for nyx 

[FerockQuartz]

I'd replace...

Volt > Gauss

Mag > Khora

Excal > Hyldrin

because... "The New War" is coming... 😂😂😂

[Kaleeiv]

10 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Mag for Rhino, that way you'd have.

Rhino - Tankyness + gunplay + buffs

Volt - Casting + gunplay + buffs

Excal - Durable melee posterchild that introduces you to exalteds.

Mag is just too easy to think "ehrmagerd she zo bads!" because you are new, have little clue about the game, builds and lack access to useful mods.

but 3 male frames to pick from. Seems like an easy way to alienate a lot of potential new players.

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, Kaleeiv said:

but 3 male frames to pick from. Seems like an easy way to alienate a lot of potential new players.

Is this some SJW PC crusader mindset or what?

If a player is hellbent on genders or diversity then WF simply isnt the game. There are no wee-wees or ho-has to begin with in WF outside of your own made up operator. Everything else are genderless machines with masculine or feminine features. Forcing a frame into the starter just because it happens to have knockers isnt the way to go because it wont be a female eitherway, it will still just be a machine. So all it would do is remove a starter friendly choice to fullfill nothing in the end when it comes to diverse representation.

The only people that would feel well represted are the + crowd, that may identify as murder robots, attack helicopters or androids.

[Cubewano]

honestly i'd rather add to the starter roster, for how broad the frame pool has gotten only 3 starting choices seems a bit tame. 

[Kaleeiv]

8 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Is this some SJW PC crusader mindset or what?

If a player is hellbent on genders or diversity then WF simply isnt the game. There are no wee-wees or ho-has to begin with in WF outside of your own made up operator. Everything else are genderless machines with masculine or feminine features. Forcing a frame into the starter just because it happens to have knockers isnt the way to go because it wont be a female eitherway, it will still just be a machine. So all it would do is remove a starter friendly choice to fullfill nothing in the end when it comes to diverse representation.

The only people that would feel well represted are the + crowd, that may identify as murder robots, attack helicopters or androids.

I don't play games that smell like obvious teenage boys lockers if that is the question. It would be my loss I the case of WF, or not. Having different gender available to start with ensure you have more variety in the people who play too. 

Also I'm not a public for entertainment that smells like old angry vagina. I like normal things for normal adult people, and choices that are actually choices. 

[Bodysuit]

Oberon for Mag is superb.

I vehemently disagree with Trinity being a starter frame heavily. I just may have quit if my introduction had been such a situational frame. I play healer or support in 90% of games but Trinity is highly disappointing in that aspect.  Pooling my resources to buy her very early on was one of the biggest letdowns I've experienced since playing. If you can't tell by now, then let me plainly say I don't like Trinity. Wisp and Oberon heal properly by rolling it in with other abilities, bringing plenty more to the table than being a slot on teammates gearwheel. Ive only played for about 4 months so my opinion could change, but abilities that target 1 enemy and aren't doing high damage are not typically things you will be using often. Recovering HP also isnt a great strategy for staying alive to teach beginners. Having 2 - abilities to hurt enemies should be in a starter frame's arsenal, maybe 1 if the other is a good DPS buff.

I'll stop railing against Trinity now. Wisp could be the advanced option if any.

[SneakyErvin]

3 minutes ago, Kaleeiv said:

I don't play games that smell like obvious teenage boys lockers if that is the question. It would be my loss I the case of WF, or not. Having different gender available to start with ensure you have more variety in the people who play too. 

Also I'm not a public for entertainment that smells like old angry vagina. I like normal things for normal adult people, and choices that are actually choices. 

Having more "genders" to pick from may get more people to try it out, but it will also lead to more people quitting in the end because they picked a weak frame they are now stuck with. The focus when picking warframes is about their theme/ability kit, that is what gets people hooked.

And when there actually is no gender to begin with it becomes utterly pointless to diversify. It wont be a male or female protagonist because it will have no personality, emotions or anything else that tells a story of him/her. At that point it comes down to the purely shallow objectification wether you are a feminist player wanting to play the strong female lead or the creepy wierdo that wants the curves to look at when playing. 

Picking a frame is just like picking a starter weapon. The frame may look like a he or she just like a gun can be called Daisy, Loretta, Steve or Frank. It still doesnt mean they have a gender.

[Cubewano]

23 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Is this some SJW PC crusader mindset or what?

If a player is hellbent on genders or diversity then WF simply isnt the game. There are no wee-wees or ho-has to begin with in WF outside of your own made up operator. Everything else are genderless machines with masculine or feminine features. Forcing a frame into the starter just because it happens to have knockers isnt the way to go because it wont be a female eitherway, it will still just be a machine. So all it would do is remove a starter friendly choice to fullfill nothing in the end when it comes to diverse representation.

The only people that would feel well represted are the + crowd, that may identify as murder robots, attack helicopters or androids.

People like options, including gendered options, where they apply. And while the frames we pick may not have genuine genders or even genuine sexes they are molded around very similar ideals and to any standard person are entirely interchangeable with the concept. Why else do you think we have an evenly split roster of male and female oriented frame designs with alternating releases of each design style to keep a consistent ratio? It's a minor and more aesthetically driven impulse to want sure, but it's an impulse that exists all the same, and is really only beneficial to play to. 

That said, you and your band of helicopter identifying individuals will get along just fine either way. You haven't ruptured from the current practices DE abide by after all.  

[Kaleeiv]

7 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Having more "genders" to pick from may get more people to try it out, but it will also lead to more people quitting in the end because they picked a weak frame they are now stuck with. The focus when picking warframes is about their theme/ability kit, that is what gets people hooked.

And when there actually is no gender to begin with it becomes utterly pointless to diversify. It wont be a male or female protagonist because it will have no personality, emotions or anything else that tells a story of him/her. At that point it comes down to the purely shallow objectification wether you are a feminist player wanting to play the strong female lead or the creepy wierdo that wants the curves to look at when playing. 

Picking a frame is just like picking a starter weapon. The frame may look like a he or she just like a gun can be called Daisy, Loretta, Steve or Frank. It still doesnt mean they have a gender.

half of the people are female, it's not a political stance, it's a statistical fact that you take into account or not when you do business. It positions your product too. 

new players don't know S#&$ about the lore, they see a choice between 3 characters  and 3 look male: what the #*!% is that? You may not know that this won't be your only character to start with because you come with prejudices you built playing other games. Rationalize all you want, 3 male character is just a bad idea.

Edited August 28, 2019 by Kaleeiv

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Replace Volt with Gauss.

[SneakyErvin]

29 minutes ago, Kaleeiv said:

half of the people are female, it's not a political stance, it's a statistical fact that you take into account or not when you do business. It positions your product too. 

new players don't know S#&$ about the lore, they see a choice between 3 characters  and 3 look male: what the #*!% is that? You may not know that this won't be your only character to start with because you come with prejudices you built playing other games. Rationalize all you want, 3 male character is just a bad idea.

50/50 so what? I'm male and I only pick male in games where I can actually create my own character. If it is a game like say Black Desert or Marvel Heroes I pick the archetype where the skills appeal to me with total disregard to what gender they may represent. I didnt think "what kinda bullS#&$ is this sticking a female on me when wanting to play sorc" when I started with Black Desert, nor did I *@##$ and moan about a genderbender for Carol, Wanda or Felicia in Marvel Heroes.

What prejudice. You say they dont know anything about the lore so how can they see it as 3 male frames and simply not just 3 frames? They dont even know that there are female looking frames to begin with. Any normal person would just see 3 simple armored suits or 3 simple robots you control in some way. Or are you of the mindset that if it is an armor made for a female or a robot controlled by a female it must have bulges on the chest so the wearer or controller can connect with it emotionally?

As I said, they are freakin weapons. Or is Lucille in TWD a murderous *@##$ and not just one of Negan's tools/weapons?

[Kaleeiv]

Just now, SneakyErvin said:

50/50 so what? I'm male and I only pick male in games where I can actually create my own character. If it is a game like say Black Desert or Marvel Heroes I pick the archetype where the skills appeal to me with total disregard to what gender they may represent. I didnt think "what kinda bullS#&$ is this sticking a female on me when wanting to play sorc" when I started with Black Desert, nor did I *@##$ and moan about a genderbender for Carol, Wanda or Felicia in Marvel Heroes.

What prejudice. You say they dont know anything about the lore so how can they see it as 3 male frames and simply not just 3 frames? They dont even know that there are female looking frames to begin with. Any normal person would just see 3 simple armored suits or 3 simple robots you control in some way. Or are you of the mindset that if it is an armor made for a female or a robot controlled by a female it must have bulges on the chest so the wearer or controller can connect with it emotionally?

As I said, they are freakin weapons. Or is Lucille in TWD a murderous *@##$ and not just one of Negan's tools/weapons?

So you would have stuck to WF if there were 3 females to pick from or not? I kinda have some difficulties understanding your point. Fyi, I think 3 female characters to pick from would be bad too. I hope that doesn't sound too SJW for your extra open mind.

[SneakyErvin]

17 minutes ago, Kaleeiv said:

So you would have stuck to WF if there were 3 females to pick from or not? I kinda have some difficulties understanding your point. Fyi, I think 3 female characters to pick from would be bad too. I hope that doesn't sound too SJW for your extra open mind.

I would have stayed. I would have maybe thought "hmm that is strange, wonder what the reason is for this?" since it isnt common with female shaped battle suits. But it would have also gotten me interested of finding out the reason. If it is some form of all female resistance force, an all female race/empire or so on.

For me 3 females, just as 3 males would also be bad, if their kits didnt justify it out of a new player friendly perspective. Excal, Rhino and Volt just make a good starter. There are no fem-frames that really fit in a strong starter line up. Many of them require alot of modding before you actually feel their strengths, the reason why mag fits so poorly, it is too easy to dislike her that early on. Saryn would obviously be too strong because her #1 would just trivialize everything since it scales so well without any mods. Then several of them come from quests.

And that is all with the intent of the most player friendly new player experience possible when it comes to frame choices and powers.

It is also not that I'm extra open minded, it is just that I think diversity should never be forced.

Edited August 28, 2019 by SneakyErvin

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Excalibur, he teaches bad habits. Swap him for Ash since Ash is such a pain to farm for new players now.

[Kaleeiv]

4 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

I would have stayed. I would have maybe thought "hmm that is strange, wonder what the reason is for this?" since it isnt common with female shaped battle suits. But it would have also gotten me interested of finding out the reason. If it is some form of all female resistance for, an all female race or so on.

For me 3 females, just as 3 males would also be bad, if their kits didnt justify it out of a new player friendly perspective. Excal, Rhino and Volt just make a good starter. There are no fem-frames that really fit in a strong starter line up. Many of them require alot of modding before you actually feel their strengths, the reason why mag fits so poorly, it is too easy to dislike her that early on. Saryn would obviously be too strong because her #1 would just trivialize everything since it scales so well without any mods. Then several of them come from quests.

And that is all with the intent of the most player friendly new player experience possible when it comes to frame choices and powers.

It is also not that I'm extra open minded, it is just that I think diversity should never be forced.

I see a MMO with only females to pick from amongst a choice of 2+ characters, I uninstall ASAP, same with males. Too many games to try around, not losing my time with gender-conflicted niche stuff.

Gratz on the curiosity though. Happily for you this will never ever happen as a choice, so you won't be proved wrong.

[(PSN)Eluminary]

Mag is a great frame one of the strongest in the game however she requires more work to be good than volt/excal.  Nothing against her but she just isn't it a newbie friendly.  Rhino is newbie friendly likely a better starter.

[SneakyErvin]

53 minutes ago, Kaleeiv said:

I see a MMO with only females to pick from amongst a choice of 2+ characters, I uninstall ASAP, same with males. Too many games to try around, not losing my time with gender-conflicted niche stuff.

Gratz on the curiosity though. Happily for you this will never ever happen as a choice, so you won't be proved wrong.

In a traditional class based MMO the same would apply to me. There is often never a reason why you have a singular gender or gender locks in them. It was acceptable to a point in Black Desert since part of the gender locks were explained, however those that werent just felt odd to say the least. 

The games where I'm fully fine with gender locks is in games where you play an already exsisting hero/character, like games based on Marvel characters. DaoC also did the gender lock thing well with the Valkyrie class.

[Midas]

It would honestly be ember, i'd swap her in for someone because of her strong early game. Also a good way to get new players hooked on the power interest.

[5H4DE]

The starter frame setup is missing a basic tank so imo, I'd replace Mag for Rhino.

[WoodedSkate89]

Mag for loki

[Kaotyke]

Mag > Limbo

Volt > Limbo

Excal > Limbo

[Bioness]

5 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Is this some SJW PC crusader mindset or what?

If a player is hellbent on genders or diversity then WF simply isnt the game. There are no wee-wees or ho-has to begin with in WF outside of your own made up operator. Everything else are genderless machines with masculine or feminine features. Forcing a frame into the starter just because it happens to have knockers isnt the way to go because it wont be a female eitherway, it will still just be a machine. So all it would do is remove a starter friendly choice to fullfill nothing in the end when it comes to diverse representation.

The only people that would feel well represted are the + crowd, that may identify as murder robots, attack helicopters or androids.

Has nothing to do with your SJW rhetoric. The frames are obviously modelled in a male or female form. New players not knowing anything about the game will not see the frames as weapons, they see them as characters.

Not being able to start as a female (or male) character can be a turn off for some players, that is a fact.

Having said all that, I would replace Mag with (a buffed) Ember if we had to replace someone.

[SneakyErvin]

5 hours ago, Bioness said:

Has nothing to do with your SJW rhetoric. The frames are obviously modelled in a male or female form. New players not knowing anything about the game will not see the frames as weapons, they see them as characters.

Not being able to start as a female (or male) character can be a turn off for some players, that is a fact.

Having said all that, I would replace Mag with (a buffed) Ember if we had to replace someone.

People didnt see Anthem javelins as characters, why should people be more stupid here? If it was a new game people wouldnt know about male or female frames to begin with, they'd simply know about frames in general. As this in an old game all the info about what a frame is can be read. Even without the knowledge you quickly assume you are using a suit or remote controlled robot.

The point of having the different two represented is kinda moot in this game. Why use it and waste potential on a poster frame simply because it has bewb shapes? It will just end up as the least used frame either way with new players. Pick the 3 frames that fit well to get the power fantasy going decently fast, without having to invest massive amounts in mods and time before being able to polish of the dirt, like it is in Mag's case. 

And it does kinda go into the SJW/PC area when you start thinking about needed both "genders" represented "just because feelings". Especially when the frames you have available to represent one gender are either kinda weak early game (aswell as late for some) or silly OP to the point where it would ruin the new player experience. At that point you are better off forgetting about having both represented and just go with the 3 frames that are simply most suited for a new player.

 

[Bioness]

17 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

People didnt see Anthem javelins as characters, why should people be more stupid here? If it was a new game people wouldnt know about male or female frames to begin with, they'd simply know about frames in general. As this in an old game all the info about what a frame is can be read. Even without the knowledge you quickly assume you are using a suit or remote controlled robot.

The point of having the different two represented is kinda moot in this game. Why use it and waste potential on a poster frame simply because it has bewb shapes? It will just end up as the least used frame either way with new players. Pick the 3 frames that fit well to get the power fantasy going decently fast, without having to invest massive amounts in mods and time before being able to polish of the dirt, like it is in Mag's case. 

And it does kinda go into the SJW/PC area when you start thinking about needed both "genders" represented "just because feelings". Especially when the frames you have available to represent one gender are either kinda weak early game (aswell as late for some) or silly OP to the point where it would ruin the new player experience. At that point you are better off forgetting about having both represented and just go with the 3 frames that are simply most suited for a new player.

 

Anthem's javelins (from what I can tell, never played the game) don't have instantly recognizable male and female features. Warframe also goes to great lengths to ensure there is a male/female frame equality even to the point that their release cycle is based on it.

"SJW" is the most annoying and vapid internet strawman recently conceived. There is nothing wrong with wanting representation. Am I screaming that there should be 4 starter frames 2 males and 2 females? No, but having at least one as a starting option shouldn't be controversial.