Trinity and Rhino need changes

[ObsidianG]

I will probably be stoned to death for what I will say in this post but I haven't heard this opinion anywhere and I want to put it up here with the risk of becoming the most wanted Tenno. 

 

Trinity and Rhino are one of the most problematic frames in the game and their design hurts the game. 

 

First, our beloved Trinity. If I were to make a tier list Trinity would be S++++ because she trivializes the entire game. A support that makes the entire team unkillable and offers and endless supply of energy, both actions done with the press of two different buttons, it's not good in my book. People have been asking for a challenge in the game, well you can't have challange in a game where one character just keeps the only 2 resources the game wants you to manage maxed. She makes nuke frames beyond overpowered because they don't have to manage energy and positioning and movement are stuff you can forget about when Trinity anyway heals you to max with one button. The only workaround DE has found is the ability negating mechanics which everyone hates as they only make things annoying if not anything else. Not to mention, other support frames fall flat in the face of Trinity because none can offer what she offers, the only one close to Trin's level of support is Harrow but Harrow actually needs some skill to play effectively and actually help the team. It's not rocket science but it's more than just pressing one button. 

With this said, Trinity needs a rework. I'm fine having a general purpose support that has as main perk replenishing allies resources but this must be done in a different way. Healing an entire team to full HP and shields must be something hard to pull of and keeping everyone's energy maxed must again be something difficult to do. I don't have any ideas for this said rework, but I know it's a must if there's any chance of having challenging content in Warframe, ever. Anything they pump out will always be made easy by having a Trinity in the squad.

 

Now, onto Rhino. I honestly don't have that much of an issue with Rhino. Sure, he suffers from the same one button win syndrome but at least his one button just buffs the damage of everyone which isn't so bad. His iron skin could be made to function like Nezha's shield in my opinion since just straight out invulnerability to X amount of damage isn't ok at all. My biggest problem with Rhino is how he is obtained. For most new players, he is the second warframe after the starter and this is a huge issue. In the hands of a completely new player you give a frame that cannot die and has one of the best buffs in the game. Guess what this leads to? That new player skyrocketing through the rest of the starchart because they can't die due to iron skin, while also having a window to most high level content. Some strength, some duration and all new players are ready to go into pretty much anything with a buff Rhino build. So in short, my issue is that the game gives such a powerful frame like Rhino too early and too lightly. I don't think Rhino needs any substatial nerfs besides the iron skin change I mentioned but I do believe he should be put further into the game. There's absolutely no logic in giving a new player an unkillable frame that also happens to be one of the best buffers with little effort from the get go. 

 

With that said, I don't think Trinity and Rhino are the only problems Warframe have and that fixing them will fix the whole game. But I do consider they are part of the bigger problem and it would be best for everyone if DE would look at them. Sometimes it's not only weak frames that need a rework.

 

I'm perfectly aware I just stirred the entire masses of Trinity and Rhino loyalists so feel free to call me a mental retard if you feel like that's what I am. Most probably this won't get anywhere but I will feel better having my opinion out there.

 

P.S I know trinity got nerfed before but honestly it didn't achieve anything.

Edited September 2, 2019 by D20
Made title more clear

[snowpreacher]

Trinity is the true Phoenix bird, she always rise from the ashes 🙂

Whatever you do to her, she will always find a way to shine ....   

 

But does she really hurt game?
I mean you have zenurik for energy and arcane for health regen.
 

 

[Annnoth]

Yeah ill agree. Trinity these days has fallen by the wayside because of consumables, focus, and frames also providing healing and DR while also providing more on top of that, but its only that way because trinity is overkill. You dont need that much power of raw healing and energy she has so it gets incredibly dull.

Harrow is strong but his damage reduction isnt as consistent and his healing technically isnt as good especislly how the game works as it stands where enemies die constantly.

Oberon is great consistent healing and provides real good DR and is basicslly all you need for 99% of the game if you or your team is somewhat competent.

If you ever hit a point those 2 stop being useful frim a supportive perspective, trinity turns into the great wall of china that enemies have to overcome to start being difficult again whether she is useful right now or not.

She should be the end goal if they ever decide to bring things in line since there are other frames that form a more practical problem for what we actually do in this game.

Edited August 28, 2019 by Annnoth

[Peter]

Trinity is the most broken support imo, infinite life with instant 100% health/shield  and enery plus 99,9% damage mitigation (3+4), ah, and you don't need any skill to be a good support, you even need to aim.

 

Edited August 28, 2019 by Peter

[(PSN)Silverback73]

32 minutes ago, ObsidianG said:

I will probably be stoned to death for what I will say in this post but I haven't heard this opinion anywhere and I want to put it up here with the risk of becoming the most wanted Tenno. 

 

Trinity and Rhino are one of the most problematic frames in the game and their design hurts the game. 

 

First, our beloved Trinity. If I were to make a tier list Trinity would be S++++ because she trivializes the entire game. A support that makes the entire team unkillable and offers and endless supply of energy, both actions done with the press of two different buttons, it's not good in my book. People have been asking for a challenge in the game, well you can't have challange in a game where one character just keeps the only 2 resources the game wants you to manage maxed. She makes nuke frames beyond overpowered because they don't have to manage energy and positioning and movement are stuff you can forget about when Trinity anyway heals you to max with one button. The only workaround DE has found is the ability negating mechanics which everyone hates as they only make things annoying if not anything else. Not to mention, other support frames fall flat in the face of Trinity because none can offer what she offers, the only one close to Trin's level of support is Harrow but Harrow actually needs some skill to play effectively and actually help the team. It's not rocket science but it's more than just pressing one button. 

With this said, Trinity needs a rework. I'm fine having a general purpose support that has as main perk replenishing allies resources but this must be done in a different way. Healing an entire team to full HP and shields must be something hard to pull of and keeping everyone's energy maxed must again be something difficult to do. I don't have any ideas for this said rework, but I know it's a must if there's any chance of having challenging content in Warframe, ever. Anything they pump out will always be made easy by having a Trinity in the squad.

 

Now, onto Rhino. I honestly don't have that much of an issue with Rhino. Sure, he suffers from the same one button win syndrome but at least his one button just buffs the damage of everyone which isn't so bad. His iron skin could be made to function like Nezha's shield in my opinion since just straight out invulnerability to X amount of damage isn't ok at all. My biggest problem with Rhino is how he is obtained. For most new players, he is the second warframe after the starter and this is a huge issue. In the hands of a completely new player you give a frame that cannot die and has one of the best buffs in the game. Guess what this leads to? That new player skyrocketing through the rest of the starchart because they can't die due to iron skin, while also having a window to most high level content. Some strength, some duration and all new players are ready to go into pretty much anything with a buff Rhino build. So in short, my issue is that the game gives such a powerful frame like Rhino too early and too lightly. I don't think Rhino needs any substatial nerfs besides the iron skin change I mentioned but I do believe he should be put further into the game. There's absolutely no logic in giving a new player an unkillable frame that also happens to be one of the best buffers with little effort from the get go. 

 

With that said, I don't think Trinity and Rhino are the only problems Warframe have and that fixing them will fix the whole game. But I do consider they are part of the bigger problem and it would be best for everyone if DE would look at them. Sometimes it's not only weak frames that need a rework.

 

I'm perfectly aware I just stirred the entire masses of Trinity and Rhino loyalists so feel free to call me a mental retard if you feel like that's what I am. Most probably this won't get anywhere but I will feel better having my opinion out there.

 

P.S I know trinity got nerfed before but honestly it didn't achieve anything.

Actually, your view is slightly myopic from the angle you are attempting to come at us with.

It’s not just these two and it is more or less flip sides of the coin when it comes to viewpoint.

Chroma breaks the game in certain situations.

Saryn can break the game.

Nova can break the game.

Equinox can break the game.

Loki can break the game.

Limbo can BREAK EVERYTHING.

Riven/Arcane combos in concert with ANY frame with an established mod library...can break the game (except you, Booben.  Sorry. 😞)

The point is that Warframe has always been a power fantasy looter-shooter with immersive “kill’em all” combat.  It’s about time invested and the speed, beauty and power of the combat experience.

Until for some “veterans” it’s not...

DE tenuously tries to maintain this core experience even as vested veterans put pressure on them to provide “challenging and original content”.

If you’re of the “harder is more rewarding” mindset, I hear Remnant is the 3rd person looter-shooter itch you are trying to scratch.

It comes down to individual viewpoint.

I’m one of those Tenno who likes maximum carnage in my squad, and you’d call me a “vet”.

I’ve honestly found many of the more recent “contrivances” to make the game “harder and more challenging” to be a detriment to what made/makes Warframe the successful worldwide brand that it is.

And like you, some would be critical of “my” Warframe.

I hope you find your fulfillment, Tenno.

LONG LIVE THE LOTUS!

 

 

Edited August 28, 2019 by (PS4)Silverback73

[mikakor]

what the f*ck did i just read....

[DatDarkOne]

16 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

And like you, some would be critical of “my” Warframe.

They would be very critical of mine as I play Ivara, play solo, and try to stealth everything.  Been doing it for 3+ years and haven't gotten bored yet.  😄

[Proslackernifty]

I think nerfing frames to make current content harder is the worst idea.  The solution is to make new content harder. 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

43 minutes ago, ObsidianG said:

My biggest problem with Rhino is how he is obtained. For most new players, he is the second warframe after the starter and this is a huge issue. In the hands of a completely new player you give a frame that cannot die and has one of the best buffs in the game. Guess what this leads to? That new player skyrocketing through the rest of the starchart because they can't die due to iron skin, while also having a window to most high level content.

LOL no. Most newbs can't figure out how to really use his iron skin. 

It goes on, they take no damage, get stuck with what's basically a glorified shield, they forget that they're going to need to put it back on, and get ktfo. 

And don't let me start on how often you need to tell them to roar to get them into the habit. 

 

He's a good generalist frame, but he's not the best tank, damage buffer, or cc frame. 

[JackHargreav]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

LOL no. Most newbs can't figure out how to really use his iron skin. 

Actually this is true. I had a clanmate who didn't know he had to get damaged to get a proper IS. He was constantly asking me if his build would reach 20k if he uses this or that build. Until I realised he doesn't know what he's doing and explained him how to use it.

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

Any game anywhere is gonna have people that are called "min-maxers". 

 

Here's the crazy part: if trinity and rhino weren't in the game, you would still have people maxing other frames to their full potential and "breaking" the game. 

 

From a new person's outside perspective: you guys have a freaking gun that plants a homing beacon and let's you blast a buncha rounds right into that same spot, negating the need the even aim.....are you serious right now lol?

 

There's no one aspect of a videogame that makes things "broken". It's almost like a hugely multi-faceted issue that isn't completely black and white.

 

I've seen more threads about Condition overload than anything.

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

7 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

Actually this is true. I had a clanmate who didn't know he had to get damaged to get a proper IS. He was constantly asking me if his build would reach 20k if he uses this or that build. Until I realised he doesn't know what he's doing and explained him how to use it.

It tells you in the abilities page how to use stone skin, I didnt even need to watch a YouTube video, I went solo and tested it myself.

[Otobai]

*Saryn farts all over the thread*

[nms.]

54 minutes ago, mikakor said:

what the f*ck did i just read....

The only crime here is that you actually read it.

[DeathDweller]

I don;t have anything against of what you said but i'll hate you nonetheless because you gave me the permission to do so.

Edited August 29, 2019 by DeathDweller

[WoodedSkate89]

2 things. 

1) There are frames that suffer worse from the one button to win syndrome. 

2) This thread will be locked for "not being constructive" 

[WoodedSkate89]

1 hour ago, Peter said:

Trinity is the most broken support imo, infinite life with instant 100% health/shield  and enery plus 99,9% damage mitigation (3+4), ah, and you don't need any skill to be a good support, you even need to aim.

 

yeah but most trinity's (especially in tridolons) never do this

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

You misspelled Revenant.

[VotumPrime]

2 hours ago, ObsidianG said:

I will probably be stoned to death for what I will say in this post but I haven't heard this opinion anywhere and I want to put it up here with the risk of becoming the most wanted Tenno. 

 

Trinity and Rhino are one of the most problematic frames in the game and their design hurts the game. 

 

First, our beloved Trinity. If I were to make a tier list Trinity would be S++++ because she trivializes the entire game. A support that makes the entire team unkillable and offers and endless supply of energy, both actions done with the press of two different buttons, it's not good in my book. People have been asking for a challenge in the game, well you can't have challange in a game where one character just keeps the only 2 resources the game wants you to manage maxed. She makes nuke frames beyond overpowered because they don't have to manage energy and positioning and movement are stuff you can forget about when Trinity anyway heals you to max with one button. The only workaround DE has found is the ability negating mechanics which everyone hates as they only make things annoying if not anything else. Not to mention, other support frames fall flat in the face of Trinity because none can offer what she offers, the only one close to Trin's level of support is Harrow but Harrow actually needs some skill to play effectively and actually help the team. It's not rocket science but it's more than just pressing one button. 

With this said, Trinity needs a rework. I'm fine having a general purpose support that has as main perk replenishing allies resources but this must be done in a different way. Healing an entire team to full HP and shields must be something hard to pull of and keeping everyone's energy maxed must again be something difficult to do. I don't have any ideas for this said rework, but I know it's a must if there's any chance of having challenging content in Warframe, ever. Anything they pump out will always be made easy by having a Trinity in the squad.

 

Now, onto Rhino. I honestly don't have that much of an issue with Rhino. Sure, he suffers from the same one button win syndrome but at least his one button just buffs the damage of everyone which isn't so bad. His iron skin could be made to function like Nezha's shield in my opinion since just straight out invulnerability to X amount of damage isn't ok at all. My biggest problem with Rhino is how he is obtained. For most new players, he is the second warframe after the starter and this is a huge issue. In the hands of a completely new player you give a frame that cannot die and has one of the best buffs in the game. Guess what this leads to? That new player skyrocketing through the rest of the starchart because they can't die due to iron skin, while also having a window to most high level content. Some strength, some duration and all new players are ready to go into pretty much anything with a buff Rhino build. So in short, my issue is that the game gives such a powerful frame like Rhino too early and too lightly. I don't think Rhino needs any substatial nerfs besides the iron skin change I mentioned but I do believe he should be put further into the game. There's absolutely no logic in giving a new player an unkillable frame that also happens to be one of the best buffers with little effort from the get go. 

 

With that said, I don't think Trinity and Rhino are the only problems Warframe have and that fixing them will fix the whole game. But I do consider they are part of the bigger problem and it would be best for everyone if DE would look at them. Sometimes it's not only weak frames that need a rework.

 

I'm perfectly aware I just stirred the entire masses of Trinity and Rhino loyalists so feel free to call me a mental retard if you feel like that's what I am. Most probably this won't get anywhere but I will feel better having my opinion out there.

 

P.S I know trinity got nerfed before but honestly it didn't achieve anything.

This OP fears Rhino because of this:

 

You know that it's just the weapon doing all the work right?

[Envy123]

Idid not read anything, i just came over to say that i hate you, and i must to hate you.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

considering how many times she's been nerfed, I think Trin is fine now. her damage reduction is way less, and while she fully restores health and shields, that doesn't count for squat if enemies are so high-levelled and/or they have damage modifiers that they can quite easily one-shot any non-tank frame. movement is always king, because the best way to stay alive is to just not get hit in the first place. Trinity also lacks any real CC or damage powers, the only viable way to solo as Trin without going gun-only is with a good Link build, and all that does is make her a tank: without a decent weapon, she cannot contribute at all to a team's overall DPS; she just makes sure those that can DPS don't die.

Rhino players usually get a bad rep for only using their 2, and while I will admit that some bad habits can be formed by giving Rhino early, it's also down to the player to actually read stuff and try to understand everything that their frame can do: you could get through the whole star chart as Rhino using Roar instead of Iron Skin, but people choose the easiest option more often so *shrugs*.

[(NSW)Sk0rp1on]

I don’t get the Rhino hate. His iron skin is good, but it takes his augments and a bunch of stackable armour and strength mods to really make him OP. 

Also, this is a co op game. Other players min maxing and cheesing the game only hurts you if you decide to let it. Chill.

 

[(NSW)Sk0rp1on]

18 hours ago, ObsidianG said:

There's absolutely no logic in giving a new player an unkillable frame that also happens to be one of the best buffers with little effort from the get go. 

 

People can just buy Rhino, though. What about them? I feel like your just gatekeeping here and you just don’t want to play with people you feel are noobs.

Edited August 29, 2019 by (NSW)Sk0rp1on
Typo typo typo

[(PSN)deathwolfclaw666]

18 hours ago, ObsidianG said:

but Harrow actually needs some skill to play effectively and actually help the team.

I have to disagree. At most I find that you may have to jump around dodging attacks while you build up his 3 but after that it comes down to the odd kill and spamming of his other abilities before you repeat.

 

[TheSixOfDiamonds]

OP, by any chance, have you used Inaros? You want to chat about immortals, he's the only frame that's so tanky I can't figure out how to build him. The only "challenge" for him is getting Covert Lethality. After that, hold 4 until maxed, and occasionally press 1 to open a finisher, restore what 25% of your health, and instantly kill anything that isn't a boss and affected by pocket sand. Healing back to 100% takes at most 4 stabs, and his armor is astronomical compared to other frames with that buff. Yes Chroma can reach similar levels (maybe Nidus? haven't built him yet), but this is more or less out of the box, b/c you will likely stack Armor and Health due to him having literally 0 shields. I did this with just range, maybe duration (i forget), and soon after saved him for all but the hardest content I bother running.

There are many frames that can trivialize a large part of the game, well into the 70+ level range, and that's okay. The thing that has me play Warframe is the fact it plays like old school Unreal Tournament and rewards you for it.

Also, I don't hate you, you just have an opinion. Mine happens to be different, and that's okay.🙂