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(PC) Gauss / Signature Weapons Feedback

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On 2019-09-03 at 3:53 PM, AKTKWNG said:

My Gauss is still crafting in the foundry, but I do have some thoughts on his two weapons.

*snip*

TLDR: Increase battery gain upon effective usage of 1 and 3.

After crafting and putting 2 forma into Gauss and playing around with a few different builds, I'm glad to say that I really like him a lot. I'll just say upfront that aesthetically, in terms of visual and sound design, Gauss is an easy S+. So let's talk about his kit. It's not perfect by any means, and I have issues with his passive and 3 specifically, but overall I really enjoy his core gameplay loop.

Passive: the shield regen part of his passive is honestly not super noticeable. Even if you shorten shield regen delay, it's still pointless if you're already under fire while running. It could possibly be changed to just gaining shield while sprinting, with amount of shield gained per distance scaling with battery level, and maybe a bonus if you're using Mach Rush. As for the actual battery, while battery gain could be tuned higher, I honestly don't think that low battery is as much of an issue as many people make it out to be (I'll explain more below).

1. Mach Rush: "press to go fast" and it does exactly that, no complaints there. I quickly fell into a comfortable pattern of emptying my Acceltra magazine into a group of enemies, tapping 1 to knock down any surviving enemies and pick up ammo, then either turning around to finish off survivors or dashing to another group of enemies. I was using my 1 almost once per clip, it didn't feel like I was forcing myself to spam it, and it kept my battery at a decently healthy level. If I were to make a change, it would be to give additional battery gain per enemy knocked down by it. This encourages active, smart usage instead of spamming, and helps alleviate battery drain.

2. Kinetic Battery: many people seem to think that this ability is bad because of the battery drain, but that's not been my experience with it. Kinetic Battery works well for infrequent heavy hits but not for prolonged dps; in this way, it's a perfect complement to Adaptation, which counters sustained fire but is weak to sporadic spikes of damage. Also, while people like to compare the 5% damage-to-energy conversion to Hunter Adrenaline's 45%, it's actually much better than the numbers imply. Unlike HA, Kinetic Battery takes 5% of damage absorbed, not 5% of health lost. It is not reduced by armour, Adaptation or any other type of damage reduction, removing the major anti-synergy plaguing most HA builds. It also doesn't require health to work, allowing it to properly synergise with Quick Thinking. Testing with level 120 corrupted heavy gunners and bombards, I found that with Quick Thinking, Adaptation, a R3 Arcane Guardian and only 40% power strength (I like to run Overextended), even at 0% battery you can achieve net positive energy gain once Adaptation is stacked up (read: functional immunity against the corresponding types), and obviously the threshold becomes more lenient if you run 100% strength. My only gripe with this ability is that it prevents almost all knockdowns and staggers EXCEPT QT stagger. This ability is tailor-made to abuse QT, please bring it all the way home.

3. Thermal Sunder: the damage of this ability is underwhelming, but that's a common problem of all flat damage abilities. The heat proc, even the empowered one, also falls off pretty fast, though again that's just heat procs in a nutshell and not specifically this ability's issue. The empowered blast proc should honestly just strip 100% armour; Oberon's 2+4+4 combo does that with about the same amount of setup. The empowered cold proc is actually decent CC, especially with the changes to freezing and status procs. One very useful change I can suggest is to give additional battery on the cold version based on number of enemies hit. This further alleviates his battery drain and lets him easily maintain battery while doing stationary missions like defense and interception.

4. Redline: another ability that has gotten flak for battery drain, but I've already talked about my playstyle and how I don't usually have battery level issues. If you're building duration on Gauss (which you absolutely should) even a 70-80% battery level Redline is a huge boost to weapon dps. I've seen complaints that Redline does the Harrow Covenant thing where the charging-up part of Redline increases with duration in tandem with the 100% part, and while I wouldn't mind if this got changed it's also not that big of a deal for me. There isn't some magical threshold where 100% battery is a million times better than 99% battery, and I honestly think that not getting 100% Redline sooner is a worry borne more from completionist OCD than actual gameplay ramifications. My big issue here is that the casting time just feels way too long. The revving-up sound is badass, but being locked out of shooting until it's done feels ironically slow. I would prefer it if we could keep attacking, and have the speed bonuses take effect gradually as it starts up.

Overall, my personal ranking of Gauss right now puts him at a solid B+ (I rate Wukong A- for reference), which when coupled with his great visual design, phenomenal sound design and fun gameplay loop means that he has joined Oberon and Wukong as one of my daily driver frames. My suggestions regarding his battery economy are aimed at increasing battery gain through effective use of his 1 and 3 rather than decreasing overall battery drain, which I feel better embodies the fast-paced, twitchy playstyle that he is obviously trying to encourage.

Edited by AKTKWNG
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Btw if you increase his battery gain, you get faster to "Super Saiyan" mode which means longer COMPLETE invulnerability and 0 ability energy cost, which would be simply OP.

 

Edited by Benour
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54 minutes ago, Benour said:

Gauss is awesome frame very well thought out, he literally IS best frame for Distruption

Wisp who debuted in the same patch they released the OG Disruption node: NANI?!

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On 2019-09-08 at 9:20 AM, Hayshucle said:

Redline:

It is sensible that the buffs in question are in relation of movement in some shape or form, like fire rate and holster speed, but not having melee attack speed feels like a missing component. Is it to ensure that we don't have too many frames that can buff melee attack speed? Valkyr's Warcry, Volt's speed, Wisp's Haste Mote are the ones I can think while typing this out.

Why do we have to mod for duration for the buffs for this ability? It makes sense for all other frames to build for power strength to increase their % buff, but why duration? Why not let us mod for strength?

Also it's weird that Gauss is mainly selfish for his buffs only. All other frames can give a buff to their teammates in their own way but not Gauss. It should give the same buffs to his teammates like an aura similar to Chroma or work as a buff like the rest of the buff abilities, allies within the radius of initial cast get the buff until the duration ends. 

well redline allready buffs melee attack speed. and the reason why gauss is selfish in that he doesn't share his buffs is because other frames can do those buffs far better and with a less stressful build then gauss, because one gauss is a speed frame and there is no ammount of range that you could put on gauss to make him viable for a support build so thats just way too useless. 

and note, chroma was way more better off without the ability to buff his allies through vex armor. and other players didn't need it then and other players didn't need it now. i find asking for team support on any frame that doesn't focus on team support is a bit selfish to ask for. especially when we are already in a state where we are suffering with power creep in other area's to the point DE can't keep up the demand for challenging content that these players are craving for. so considering the current situation that warframe is in, does gauss really need team support when team work is out right useless? i mean i could just turn my brain off and auto pilot through the game even on disruption now. this is how far power creep has gotten. do we really need that support now?

now if you  want something to do something better then i suggest kenetic plating work like this. turn kinetic plating into a challenging ability and possibly add that ability switch effect to his 2.  have kenetic platting be this hold down his 2nd ability to charge kenetic plating building a percent or a building a kinetic field around gauss to adsorb damage and then there that effectively  frees up the passive drain of kenetic plating.  and then have the side ability which when switched by tapping 2 once allows you to "rev" guass up when holding 2 when switched to "rev" by transferring energy to his battery draining depending on efficiency most likely.  and then have a possible effect of having kinetic plating be the support ability that gauss can do. 

Edited by maddragonmaster
just adding something

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sorry for posting another comment after my recent comment but i had a thought. what if his 2 worked like this tapping his 2nd ability causes gauss to rev at the cost of at around 10 energy, which then will fill up the battery up by just a little, and holding kinetic plating will cause gauss to build up a kinetic force field based on how much the player is willing to transfer to the kinetic field. while i am not very good at making a concept thats good or anything i have plenty of idea's i can through around to see what sticks.

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4 hours ago, AKTKWNG said:

TLDR: Increase battery gain upon effective usage of 1 and 3.

After crafting and putting 2 forma into Gauss and playing around with a few different builds, I'm glad to say that I really like him a lot. I'll just say upfront that aesthetically, in terms of visual and sound design, Gauss is an easy S+. So let's talk about his kit. It's not perfect by any means, and I have issues with his passive and 3 specifically, but overall I really enjoy his core gameplay loop.

Passive: the shield regen part of his passive is honestly not super noticeable. Even if you shorten shield regen delay, it's still pointless if you're already under fire while running. It could possibly be changed to just gaining shield while sprinting, with amount of shield gained per distance scaling with battery level, and maybe a bonus if you're using Mach Rush. As for the actual battery, while battery gain could be tuned higher, I honestly don't think that low battery is as much of an issue as many people make it out to be (I'll explain more below).

1. Mach Rush: "press to go fast" and it does exactly that, no complaints there. I quickly fell into a comfortable pattern of emptying my Acceltra magazine into a group of enemies, tapping 1 to knock down any surviving enemies and pick up ammo, then either turning around to finish off survivors or dashing to another group of enemies. I was using my 1 almost once per clip, it didn't feel like I was forcing myself to spam it, and it kept my battery at a decently healthy level. If I were to make a change, it would be to give additional battery gain per enemy knocked down by it. This encourages active, smart usage instead of spamming, and helps alleviate battery drain.

2. Kinetic Battery: many people seem to think that this ability is bad because of the battery drain, but that's not been my experience with it. Kinetic Battery works well for infrequent heavy hits but not for prolonged dps; in this way, it's a perfect complement to Adaptation, which counters sustained fire but is weak to sporadic spikes of damage. Also, while people like to compare the 5% damage-to-energy conversion to Hunter Adrenaline's 45%, it's actually much better than the numbers imply. Unlike HA, Kinetic Battery takes 5% of damage absorbed, not 5% of health lost. It is not reduced by armour, Adaptation or any other type of damage reduction, removing the major anti-synergy plaguing most HA builds. It also doesn't require health to work, allowing it to properly synergise with Quick Thinking. Testing with level 120 corrupted heavy gunners and bombards, I found that with Quick Thinking, Adaptation, a R3 Arcane Guardian and only 40% power strength (I like to run Overextended), even at 0% battery you can achieve net positive energy gain once Adaptation is stacked up (read: functional immunity against the corresponding types), and obviously the threshold becomes more lenient if you run 100% strength. My only gripe with this ability is that it prevents almost all knockdowns and staggers EXCEPT QT stagger. This ability is tailor-made to abuse QT, please bring it all the way home.

3. Thermal Sunder: the damage of this ability is underwhelming, but that's a common problem of all flat damage abilities. The heat proc, even the empowered one, also falls off pretty fast, though again that's just heat procs in a nutshell and not specifically this ability's issue. The empowered blast proc should honestly just strip 100% armour; Oberon's 2+4+4 combo does that with about the same amount of setup. The empowered cold proc is actually decent CC, especially with the changes to freezing and status procs. One very useful change I can suggest is to give additional battery on the cold version based on number of enemies hit. This further alleviates his battery drain and lets him easily maintain battery while doing stationary missions like defense and interception.

4. Redline: another ability that has gotten flak for battery drain, but I've already talked about my playstyle and how I don't usually have battery level issues. If you're building duration on Gauss (which you absolutely should) even a 70-80% battery level Redline is a huge boost to weapon dps. I've seen complaints that Redline does the Harrow Covenant thing where the charging-up part of Redline increases with duration in tandem with the 100% part, and while I wouldn't mind if this got changed it's also not that big of a deal for me. There isn't some magical threshold where 100% battery is a million times better than 99% battery, and I honestly think that not getting 100% Redline sooner is a worry borne more from completionist OCD than actual gameplay ramifications. My big issue here is that the casting time just feels way too long. The revving-up sound is badass, but being locked out of shooting until it's done feels ironically slow. I would prefer it if we could keep attacking, and have the speed bonuses take effect gradually as it starts up.

Overall, my personal ranking of Gauss right now puts him at a solid B+ (I rate Wukong A- for reference), which when coupled with his great visual design, phenomenal sound design and fun gameplay loop means that he has joined Oberon and Wukong as one of my daily driver frames. My suggestions regarding his battery economy are aimed at increasing battery gain through effective use of his 1 and 3 rather than decreasing overall battery drain, which I feel better embodies the fast-paced, twitchy playstyle that he is obviously trying to encourage.

heheh, after finding the quick thinking combo for gauss it's really changed my opinion of his kit, QT is by no means neccessary but it makes him soooo much better for non star chart missions since you can reliable tank hits from high level enemies (essential invincibility until the enemies can oneshot you).

thermal sunder is the weakest of his kit definitely, I imagine they're just gonna make an augment later on that adds the respective damage type to you weapons on cast or while in it's radius, which I feel should be standard to help boost his dps, since he sits in a weird psuedo Nezha spot but has no team oriented abilities

also I swear to god that there's a bug with battery charge, on wiki it says mach rush charges battery by 10% but in my experience it barely seems to jump/move at all often making sprinting in circles spamming 3 more reliable for charge building for me atleast (I'll test with redline on/off and kinetic plating on/off before reporting it)

 

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45 minutes ago, basgemm said:

heheh, after finding the quick thinking combo for gauss it's really changed my opinion of his kit, QT is by no means neccessary but it makes him soooo much better for non star chart missions since you can reliable tank hits from high level enemies (essential invincibility until the enemies can oneshot you).

thermal sunder is the weakest of his kit definitely, I imagine they're just gonna make an augment later on that adds the respective damage type to you weapons on cast or while in it's radius, which I feel should be standard to help boost his dps, since he sits in a weird psuedo Nezha spot but has no team oriented abilities

also I swear to god that there's a bug with battery charge, on wiki it says mach rush charges battery by 10% but in my experience it barely seems to jump/move at all often making sprinting in circles spamming 3 more reliable for charge building for me atleast (I'll test with redline on/off and kinetic plating on/off before reporting it)

 

If you're after tanky survival with Gauss just run with rage/adrenaline and rolling guard with adaptation.  Turn kinetic on to gain energy along side your rage/adrenaline setup.  then switch kinetic off when you have a sizable energy pool.  adaptation works in conjunction with kinetic to help you survive things better and rolling guard is useful just for general survival if you feel close to dying.  It's worth mentioning that sprinting alone is enough to counteract the active drain on kinetic plating (not from being hit but it just being active) OR redline's active drain.  but not both.  And you're still considered sprinting if you're holding the run button down while you jump/bullet jump and aim glide.

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53 minutes ago, basgemm said:

heheh, after finding the quick thinking combo for gauss it's really changed my opinion of his kit, QT is by no means neccessary but it makes him soooo much better for non star chart missions since you can reliable tank hits from high level enemies (essential invincibility until the enemies can oneshot you).

Don't get too used to it, I highly doubt it working this ways is intended. DE just doesn't design stuff in mind for one mod to turn a limited protection ability into a 'can't die unless something overkills me' one. It just looks like an unforeseen combination from a mile away.

And even if it stays, while it does make him comfortable to play at higher levels, it doesn't increase his overall value by much. There are frames that can easily have a higher oneshot threshold, and therefore tank better. Then Kinetic Plating does it's damn best at keeping your battery low, and you can't spam 1 and 3 as much because every expense of energy means lowering your oneshot threshold - so if you want to stay alive at high levels, ever ability cast becomes a high risk.

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I take my fun where I can, I've only really stuck with him this far because I want him to be better without playing in a rather counter intuitive way (the aforementioned quick thinking combo), there's no real reason for me to take gauss over chroma (or mesa or wisp etc.) besides meme'n and 'FaSt', I know a lot of people are happy with where he is right now but I personally don't see why he shouldn't be improved further, I don't see the point in releasing frames when they fail to match pre-existing ones besides in specifics such as speed (with gauss exceeding at that compared to contemporaries). I feel like gauss is in a weird spot being unable to fill any role besides off-DPS and of course 'fASt', but without the teamplay elements that come with frames like wisp, volt or harrow, design wise this makes sense you're supposed operate independently of your teammates, using your speed to zip in and out of combat rarely sitting back with your team, but fast isn't a role that needs to be filled, zephyr in my opinion suffers for much the same reasons offering great defense and mobility just like gauss does but doesn't contribute much to the team besides some hard cc and ragdolling, both have certainly cut out their own niches and I'm not saying every frame needs to be a perfect allrounder that can be mobile whilst being impenetrable, while dishing out chroma grade damage while healing teammates (*cough* harrow what) but warframe at the end of the day, is a game all about killing there's no point in cc when you could just kill the enemy "oh but it prevents the enemy from harming you and provides a window to attack" and to that end gauss' most redeeming trait is redline.........

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37 minutes ago, basgemm said:

I take my fun where I can, I've only really stuck with him this far because I want him to be better without playing in a rather counter intuitive way (the aforementioned quick thinking combo), there's no real reason for me to take gauss over chroma (or mesa or wisp etc.) besides meme'n and 'FaSt', I know a lot of people are happy with where he is right now but I personally don't see why he shouldn't be improved further, I don't see the point in releasing frames when they fail to match pre-existing ones besides in specifics such as speed (with gauss exceeding at that compared to contemporaries). I feel like gauss is in a weird spot being unable to fill any role besides off-DPS and of course 'fASt', but without the teamplay elements that come with frames like wisp, volt or harrow, design wise this makes sense you're supposed operate independently of your teammates, using your speed to zip in and out of combat rarely sitting back with your team, but fast isn't a role that needs to be filled, zephyr in my opinion suffers for much the same reasons offering great defense and mobility just like gauss does but doesn't contribute much to the team besides some hard cc and ragdolling, both have certainly cut out their own niches and I'm not saying every frame needs to be a perfect allrounder that can be mobile whilst being impenetrable, while dishing out chroma grade damage while healing teammates (*cough* harrow what) but warframe at the end of the day, is a game all about killing there's no point in cc when you could just kill the enemy "oh but it prevents the enemy from harming you and provides a window to attack" and to that end gauss' most redeeming trait is redline.........

oh well, there could be a unavoidable future where DE rescales everything in warframe rebalancing everything, nerfing frames that are over preforming in their current fields, nerfing enemy mobs and bosses so to even out with the weaker frames, nerfing weapons to prevent us from foddering enemies and mobs worst then the straw hats fodder the every day marines in one piece. (sorry been watching one piece anime) essentially thats what i feel like is coming or at least seems like the most logical conclusion since thats the only way warframe can actually obtain any long lasting challenging content like you all ask for. 

so essentially a rescaling should be in order to both gain more use with crowd control and slightly better challenge managing. because has it ever fallen into anyones mind that no matter how hard DE attempts at making challenging content we end up finding something that works and bulldoze though that content faster then DE can keep up?

Edited by maddragonmaster
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Gauss is a lot more active then other Frames that can push 4 every now and then at still come out top of damage and kills in a mission. In that sense, I've really come to like Gauss.

I think Gauss is in a weird spot, though. He does not bring anything to a team besides minor crowd control in a freeze (stun) AoE effect in "kind of" a short radius, knocking enemies over with his 1 ability, and the occasional (random) bolt from him being in his Redline state.

So here's my take on possible changes for Gauss :

//PASSIVE\\

Keep the Battery, and let Sprint Speed from mods be multiplied in value (1.5x?). Have the Redline limit sit at 70% instead of 80%. Attacking (melee, firing guns) and moving helps refill the Battery.

//MACH RUSH\\

In addition to normal effects, let Mach Rush deal extra damage based on how fast you were traveling (makes Sprint Speed matter more). Also, let Ability Range affect how far Gauss can travel before energy is expended. Next, (see my changed 3rd ability) using Mach Rush while in his area of effect of his Thermal Sunder will ignite the area, dealing bonus damage (improved by Redline).

//KINETIC PLATING\\

Remove Battery drain even when not taking damage. Give a small (unscaling) damage resistance to all other schools of damage that are NOT covered already (Toxic, Shock, etc.). Allies within a certain radius that take damage will grant you energy, AND allies in the radius are immune to knockdown/stagger effects. Allies in the radius take reduced damage from IPS, Heat, Cold, and Blast (unscaling, maybe 5-10% less damage).

//THERMAL SUNDER\\

Rename to Expel Exhaust. Remove holding to create a Heat zone. Instead, create a choking field of exhaust fumes. Enemies in the zone are dealt cold damage over time, with Ability Strength increasing the Status chance per proc, and increasing the slowing effect. Using Mach Rush while within this field ignites the exhaust fumes, converting the fumes into increased Heat damage but consuming the field in the process. While in Redline, the initial cast will instantly Freeze enemies, and using Mach Rush within the field will ignite a Blast proc, stripping enemy armor and shields that scales with Ability Strength, and causes a heavy Heat proc.

//REDLINE\\

As mentioned in his Passive, drop the threshold to 70%, as that makes his Battery easier to keep above the line. As long as the Battery is above the line, Redline Percentage will increase at a fixed rate (will always take, for instance, 15 seconds to fully ramp up). Sprint Speed affects how fast the Percentage fills up, Duration does not change the bonuses granted (only extends the time that one can stay in Redline). Ability Strength affects the bonuses gained from Redline. Add an effect that restores ammunition over time, or reduce ammo consumption in Redline (Acceltra is done shooting very quickly in only 3 clips or so, and that's one of his signature weapon).

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IMO his battery meter should work just like nidus stacks, with his 1 and 3 you get battery stacks, his 2nd and 4th will consume stacks instead of energy upon activation and problem solved

No more passive drain no more battery drain when getting hit and losing a % of battery if entering nullifying bubbles.

Increase base range of his 3rd to 18m

90% of Gauss gets fixed

 

Edited by arm4geddon-117
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31 minutes ago, Demonrider363 said:

Gauss is a lot more active then other Frames that can push 4 every now and then at still come out top of damage and kills in a mission. In that sense, I've really come to like Gauss.

I think Gauss is in a weird spot, though. He does not bring anything to a team besides minor crowd control in a freeze (stun) AoE effect in "kind of" a short radius, knocking enemies over with his 1 ability, and the occasional (random) bolt from him being in his Redline state.

So here's my take on possible changes for Gauss :

//PASSIVE\\

Keep the Battery, and let Sprint Speed from mods be multiplied in value (1.5x?). Have the Redline limit sit at 70% instead of 80%. Attacking (melee, firing guns) and moving helps refill the Battery.

//MACH RUSH\\

In addition to normal effects, let Mach Rush deal extra damage based on how fast you were traveling (makes Sprint Speed matter more). Also, let Ability Range affect how far Gauss can travel before energy is expended. Next, (see my changed 3rd ability) using Mach Rush while in his area of effect of his Thermal Sunder will ignite the area, dealing bonus damage (improved by Redline).

//KINETIC PLATING\\

Remove Battery drain even when not taking damage. Give a small (unscaling) damage resistance to all other schools of damage that are NOT covered already (Toxic, Shock, etc.). Allies within a certain radius that take damage will grant you energy, AND allies in the radius are immune to knockdown/stagger effects. Allies in the radius take reduced damage from IPS, Heat, Cold, and Blast (unscaling, maybe 5-10% less damage).

//THERMAL SUNDER\\

Rename to Expel Exhaust. Remove holding to create a Heat zone. Instead, create a choking field of exhaust fumes. Enemies in the zone are dealt cold damage over time, with Ability Strength increasing the Status chance per proc, and increasing the slowing effect. Using Mach Rush while within this field ignites the exhaust fumes, converting the fumes into increased Heat damage but consuming the field in the process. While in Redline, the initial cast will instantly Freeze enemies, and using Mach Rush within the field will ignite a Blast proc, stripping enemy armor and shields that scales with Ability Strength, and causes a heavy Heat proc.

//REDLINE\\

As mentioned in his Passive, drop the threshold to 70%, as that makes his Battery easier to keep above the line. As long as the Battery is above the line, Redline Percentage will increase at a fixed rate (will always take, for instance, 15 seconds to fully ramp up). Sprint Speed affects how fast the Percentage fills up, Duration does not change the bonuses granted (only extends the time that one can stay in Redline). Ability Strength affects the bonuses gained from Redline. Add an effect that restores ammunition over time, or reduce ammo consumption in Redline (Acceltra is done shooting very quickly in only 3 clips or so, and that's one of his signature weapon).

well. at least you weren't suggesting that redline buffs allies. because honestly that doesn't make one single sense of logic. honestly how exactly can one an a frame that is built for speed transfer their speed, that speed is what i saw as a internal speed function. the reason i can see volt being able to do it is because it electricity that radiates out of him.

gauss despite a miss leading thing about saying "releases arching electricity" it doesn't even proc electricity or has electricity in the attack. just impact, and puncture in redline. and thermal sunder just does heat, cold, and blast.  plus redline is in a sense what i akin to an anime power up thats only function is to power him up, not others.

kinetic plating while sounds kind of odd making it a team buffer considering the plating part, for some reason seems alright as a team support buffing whether as a built in function or otherwise. 

while i got use to chroma's vex armor for team support i never really cared or used chroma to support because he is outright useless in supporting because of how is abilities work. chroma requires damage to get vex armor going because the more damage he receives the more armor and attack power he gets. how is he able to even transfer  his durability and strength into others when it felt like an ability that didn't seem to exert any aura  is beyond me but thats besides the point. chroma needs to receive damage for vex armor to work, he can't buff if he can't take damage. and while i very rarely have had this happen i get extremely annoyed when someone goes and expects that they can get buffs out of me when chroma doesn't even properly function as a support type and i rather not have him function as a support type. and forcing more support ability out of him is useless when range wasn't chroma's specialty in the first place. 

and sorry chroma's state has annoyed me for quite a while now and seeing people go " make redline effect teamates like chroma vex armor does." when in the first place that chroma is useless as a team supporter. is currently only effective in a why of killing big enemies and picking up the slack of anyone lagging behind, as thats what i mostly end up doing. picking up anyone that drops and what not. and while he is not as talking as inaros, rhino, nidus or anyone else. he can still be used to pick up any frame that has less defense as him.

Edited by maddragonmaster
adding something

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9 minutes ago, maddragonmaster said:

well. at least you weren't suggesting that redline buffs allies. because honestly that doesn't make one single sense of logic. honestly how exactly can one an a frame that is built for speed transfer their speed, that speed is what i saw as a internal speed function. the reason i can see volt being able to do it is because it electricity that radiates out of him.

gauss despite a miss leading thing about saying "releases arching electricity" it doesn't even proc electricity or has electricity in the attack. just impact, and puncture in redline. and thermal sunder just does heat, cold, and blast.  plus redline is in a sense what i akin to an anime power up thats only function is to power him up, not others.

kinetic plating while sounds kind of odd making it a team buffer considering the plating part, for some reason seems alright as a team support buffing whether as a built in function or otherwise. 

while i got use to chroma's vex armor for team support i never really cared or used chroma to support because he is outright useless in supporting because of how is abilities work. chroma requires damage to get vex armor going because the more damage he receives the more armor and attack power he gets. how is he able to even transfer  his durability and strength into others when it felt like an ability that didn't seem to exert any aura  is beyond me but thats besides the point. chroma needs to receive damage for vex armor to work, he can't buff if he can't take damage. and while i very rarely have had this happen i get extremely annoyed when someone goes and expects that they can get buffs out of me when chroma doesn't even properly function as a support type and i rather not have him function as a support type. and forcing more support ability out of him is useless when range wasn't chroma's specialty in the first place. 

and sorry chroma's state has annoyed me for quite a while now and seeing people go " make redline effect teamates like chroma vex armor does." when in the first place that chroma is useless as a team supporter. is currently only effective in a why of killing big enemies and picking up the slack of anyone lagging behind, as thats what i mostly end up doing. picking up anyone that drops and what not. and while he is not as talking as inaros, rhino, nidus or anyone else. he can still be used to pick up any frame that has less defense as him.

He either needs to be an all out damage dealer (by himself), or needs more team utility. I find him fun, but that's not going to stop people from picking easier or more efficient Frames.

Why Thermal Sunder to kill things when Saryn can spread Spores and press 4? It kills much faster and reaches insanely far. I've seen others ask "Why use Redline if Wisp's Haste Mote does practically the same thing, except it helps everyone and not just Gauss?" Volt gives the entire team a speed buff too.

Thermal Sunder can strip armor, but there are other abilities or weapons that can strip more and faster.

I've seen posts on Reddit where someone mods Gauss for Quick Thinking, Gladiator Finesse, Arcane Barrier, Arcane Aegis, and Adaptation while his Kinetic Plating is active, and was immortal from IPS, Blast, etc. But, why go through modding like that when most Frames can become that tanky, or even more tanky?

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After having played around with Gauss for a bit, here are my thoughts:

Thematically, he has a well-defined style of play with frantic movement and high octane action, but I feel like his abilities in their current state (as of 25.7.5) could do a better job with promoting this playstyle.

Electrokinetic Battery

I think the battery requiring constant movement does well to contribute to his always-moving playstyle, but the fact that Gauss draws from both energy and battery simultaneously on certain abilities makes him very resource hungry. In cases like with his Kinetic Plating and Thermal Sunder, it feels like he isn't getting as much bang for his buck considering the cost of casting and maintaining said abilities. I will explain in more detail below.

Mach Rush

While this ability is incredibly fun to play around with, I think an important issue to address with it is its contribution to battery. Currently, players are rewarded with more battery for tapping 1. Players aren't really incentivized to hold 1 for any reason other than running down long stretches of corridor or across open world maps. I know a lot of users say that this ability is lacking in damage and while I agree that running past/into enemies at mach speeds should do more than a measly 800 impact/slash damage and a ragdoll, I feel that the focus of this ability should be more on its utility than its damage.

Kinetic Plating

There are numerous issues with this ability, but there are some things I think it does well. As a defensive ability, 100% DR against certain types makes Gauss safe against most enemies in the game and the stagger/knockdown immunity is a very welcome bonus. The main issues I have with this ability are its costs to cast and maintain and what you get in exchange for it. In exchange for 50 energy, a constant battery drain, AND up to 10% battery loss per hit taken, we get a defensive ability that provides up to 100% DR (which is only really effective for the first hit taken at 80% battery unless Redline is at 100%) against certain elements, stagger/knockdown immunity, and 5% dmg>energy conversion for 30s. Additionally, players have to keep casting other abilities (namely 1 and cold 3) to maintain full dmg reduction as regular movement alone is not enough to keep up with the persistent drain and per-hit drain, effectively giving this ability an additional energy cost to maintain on top of cost of re-casting once it expires or is turned off. This in turn makes it difficult to maintain Gauss' energy and battery economy without investing into high energy efficiency. The 5% dmg conversion also does not feel incredibly impactful unless you stand in one spot and let enemies smack you around a bit (which goes against the always-moving playstyle). In situations with high enemy concentration where you are constantly burning energy to dash around and CC enemies with 3, you are bound to run out of energy very quickly and stopping for a split second to let enemies hit you to regain enough energy could mean death as the dual battery drain means you lose DR very quickly and cannot sustain constant damage without 100% Redline (another issue I'll get to).

Thermal Sunder

I really like idea behind this ability with its manipulation of kinetic energy to create heat and cold zones, but I think its execution could use some work. Namely, the multi-purpose nature of the ability and the double casting, while it seems interesting on paper, doesn't work out in-game with how it currently functions. To elaborate, 50 energy and +/- 10% battery to slow/ignite enemies and another 50 +/- 10 to freeze/thicc ignite/explode. This amounts to a 100 energy (effectively an ultimate) ability that does not provide the effects of an ultimate. Consider Frost's 4. He instantly freezes all enemies around him and strips their amour for 100 energy. Gauss can freeze enemies around him for 100 energy but it requires two casts and the same energy cost to achieve an inferior version of Frost's 4. Additionally, the armour strip locked behind Redline is very underwhelming especially for the cost. Having to cast Redline, then two opposite Thermal Sunders adds up to 200 energy in order to strip armour. Not only that, but you only get a maximum of 50% current armour strip at a 100% battery which can be achieved by casting 1 and 3 prior to using the blast combo effectively putting the cost of armour stripping above 200 energy! That's absolutely absurd and not worth it at all.

Redline

I have a lot of mixed feelings about this ability. While the casting animation and sounds are stunning, the actual mechanics behind this ability can get really frustrating. As a steroid, it provides a lot of decent stat boosts, and has some decent synergies with his other abilities, but the Redline meter's drain/charge mechanic is really frustrating to deal with. First, why does duration inversely affect Redline's charge rate? As it is, we hardly get to enjoy the benefits of 100% Redline for around 2/3rd's of the ability's total duration. Not only that, but the final 20% of the battery drains so quickly that if I were to stop to shoot or melee enemies for a few seconds I'd lose the majority of the final 20%, which shaves precious seconds off the small amount of time I'll be able to spend at 100% once I get there. Charging the Redline meter itself does not feel rewarding until we hit that 100% either. Additionally, the arcing bolts of electricity (which for some reason deal impact and puncture) don't feel particularly powerful or useful. They occasionally stagger enemies and deal a minuscule amount of damage, but that's just it. The explosion once the ability ends similarly feels equally underwhelming. As a whole, Redline has decent stat buffs, but is a very frustrating ability to use if you want to get the most out of it and when combined with Kinetic Plating, becomes maintenance hell.

 

My Suggestions

  • Streamline Mach Rush's battery contribution across tapping and holding so that players get the same amount per second or distance whether tapping or holding (e.g 10% for tapping and 10%/second or /distance for holding)
  • Move Redline's armour stripping bonus over to Mach Rush to emphasize its utility. When above the Redline, Rushing past/into enemies or into walls destroys enemy armour by x-y% based on battery and scaling with power str
  • Make Kinetic Plating cost no energy to activate, rather drain a flat amount of battery (say 15%) instead on activation. This should allow players to conserve energy for Mach Rush or Thermal Sunder, which they can then use to make up for the lost battery.
  • Increase the dmg>energy conversion rate. It is too low as is.
  • Make Kinetic Plating's deactivation effects/sounds more prominent (similar to Nezha's Warding Halo) so it's easier to notice (this is more QoL, so not too pressing).
  • Make Cold Sunder do no damage and reduce the energy cost (to say 35), but increase its battery contribution on cast (to say 15%) to emphasize its function as a CC/utility ability while simultaneously making it more worthwhile in terms of energy economy
  • Increase Heat Sunder's damage to compensate for Cold Sunder doing no damage and make it cost no energy but increasing its battery cost. This should emphasize its function as a damage tool
  • Blast Sunder could deal bonus damage equal to a % of enemy max hp as its Redline bonus if the armour strip is moved to Mach Rush
  • Redline's charge rate desperately needs to be sped up so players can enjoy more time at 100%.
  • The build-up to 100% should also be more rewarding instead of just 0-99% meaning absolutely nothing. Perhaps have the % indicator dictate a reduction in battery costs/decay, meaning players are rewarded with a lowered drain, making it easier to maintain Redline and Kinetic Plating and allow more liberal use of Heat Sunder.
  • This is just something I think would be nice to have but is not something terribly necessary: Have the final 20% of the battery apply to Gauss' passive as well while Redline is active, meaning his shield recharge and delay reduction also go up to 100%. Basically shields recharge even while taking damage. Would be cool imo.

 

Final Thoughts

I know a lot of people here are not happy with Gauss' damage output and role within a squad, and while I agree his performance in those fields are lacking, it's not as bad as some people make it out to be. I don't think every frame absolutely needs to be able to provide buffs/direct support to their teams. Look at Ash or Excalibur. Neither of them can apply a single buff to their teammates (outside of augments) yet they perform just fine on their own or in a squad, fitting their own roles. Similarly, Gauss, while he seems to be a more solo-oriented frame, is still capable of holding his own within a squad, but right now he doesn't do it as well as he potentially can. I honestly think if at least some of my suggestions make it into a patch, namely those to do with his resource economy and Redline meter, he would be in a much better spot in terms of general viability and be way less frustrating to play. Despite him having a rough launch, I still have fun just running around in missions with him and enjoying the high octane dubstep action.

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Just a couple thoughts on Gauss:

His battery is confusing. It is kind of counter-intuitive how max battery is 80% unless you are redlining, then it goes to 100%. I think this could be fixed with a number above gauge just to show percentage. Also I feel that it would be good to have some visual feedback as to the level of DR you have from kinetic plating. A buff indicator or something like Nidus Stack, Nezha Halo, or Gara Splinter indicator over the battery would help this. Just more active visibility would help.

His 3 I think would be way more useful if it had a chance to proc cold or heat on enemies that enter the ring. This would make Gauss more effective at cc without being absurdly good at it. Right now he is a really solid tank/weapons based DPS frame, but he doesn't really do anything for the rest of the squad. This CC ability would help that if it was buffed.

Overall, Gauss is really good. I think you guys did a great job with his kit, and he's a lot of fun too! He's just a little confusing in terms of how his numbers work.

The weapons are good in my opinion. I like them both. I'd question why the Akarius' reload is so slow, but we have mods for that and the passive helps so it's not a big deal.

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Ranked him up, dropped a forma or two, my thoughts. I really want to like him, aesthetics and theme are very nice, but he reminds me of the original Saryn rework where all her abilities were so over synergised that nobody wanted to use her. The double resource thing doesn't feel good, at least, not with having abilities drain both battery and energy. One or the other would be fine. My personal wish list of changes:

  1. I'd have 1 build battery much faster in the held down state and increase collision damage with enemies scaled by speed.
  2. His 2 is okay, but the cost per hit seems too high and I'd remove energy cost. At around 5% battery drain per hit and reliable energy gain this becomes a way to spend battery and gain energy rather than juggling two resources for a single ability.
  3.  I'd at least increase the range of his 3 by 50%-100%. In cold mode I'd make the battery gain based on the number of enemies hit. I'd remove the energy cost entirely from the fire version leaving only the battery cost and increase the maximum armor stripping to 100% based on power strength. This gives him a way to build battery very quickly at the expense of energy, but only with proper positioning, as well as removing the need to juggle two resource types for his fire blast. You'd still need to juggle them for his blast combo, but at least doing so would reward you appropriately with the increased armor stripping.
  4. All the previous changes would basically negate the only problem with his 4, which is how unfun charging it to 100% feels.
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5 hours ago, Demonrider363 said:

He either needs to be an all out damage dealer (by himself), or needs more team utility. I find him fun, but that's not going to stop people from picking easier or more efficient Frames.

Why Thermal Sunder to kill things when Saryn can spread Spores and press 4? It kills much faster and reaches insanely far. I've seen others ask "Why use Redline if Wisp's Haste Mote does practically the same thing, except it helps everyone and not just Gauss?" Volt gives the entire team a speed buff too.

Thermal Sunder can strip armor, but there are other abilities or weapons that can strip more and faster.

I've seen posts on Reddit where someone mods Gauss for Quick Thinking, Gladiator Finesse, Arcane Barrier, Arcane Aegis, and Adaptation while his Kinetic Plating is active, and was immortal from IPS, Blast, etc. But, why go through modding like that when most Frames can become that tanky, or even more tanky?

it is because gauss is not them. gauss is who he is so he needs to be himself to the best he possibly can. and he needs to be good at what he does. he is not volt, he is not chroma, he is not wisp, he is not saryn, he is not any other frame and despite him having tiny features that are similar to other frames he is different and should be different  so rather then try and force him to be similar he needs to be his own frame, because he can do his own to support the team his own without having his 4th be a team support skill.

and who cares about if he is not an all out damage dealer or a frame with team utility, those kind and power creep are the reason why we blitz through content over and over. we have enough frames that are living nukes and frames that turn other frame into terminators. so whats wrong with a little bit of variety? now i know why DE says they want to avoid nuke frames but still end up doing them. it is because the community still craves them. the community despite them saying they don't want press 4 to win still deep down wants it still that way because it is the most efficient tactic available. they still want the press one button or key to win the game because it allows them to run past the grind. but the ironic part is that you end up ignoring whole fact of the game. and it is to have fun and then the stuff will come to you eventually.

Edited by maddragonmaster

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Il y a 23 heures, JackHargreav a dit :

What major flaws she has?

Lack of synergies, Aegis storm preventing her from using her kit, energy orbs are basically worthless but she still can make them drop like candies, being low health thus quite vulnerable to slash/poison with some terrible bandaid mechanics (overshields... she never gets enough overshields, especially when stupidly flying slowly without being able to get some), she's litteraly worthless against infested and playing with armor strippers (Mag, Saryn, Forst, Oberon or even another Hyldrin or too many quite popular Corrosive projection auras) basically impairs her whole kit (ressource management & amount of survivability).

Sure she's a really good frame but this issues could have been solved so she could be used in any kind of content, or with any kind of team at full power.

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Visual indicators on the frame that you've hit 100% battery and 100% redline would be nice so I can stop checking the gauge so often and keep my eyes on the game.

Maybe even a damaging radial explosion when you hit 100% redline (not 100% battery) to make it feel more rewarding than just removing the battery cost of some abilities.

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Can you nerf Acceltra because it's really #*!%ing good and at the rate everyone is using it's going to be the first 0 dispo weapon.

Edited by RadonRadish

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1 hour ago, RadonRadish said:

Can you nerf Acceltra because it's really #*!%ing good and at the rate everyone is using it's going to be the first 0 dispo weapon.

Really?

*furious riven farming noises*

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6 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

it is because gauss is not them. gauss is who he is so he needs to be himself to the best he possibly can. and he needs to be good at what he does. he is not volt, he is not chroma, he is not wisp, he is not saryn, he is not any other frame and despite him having tiny features that are similar to other frames he is different and should be different  so rather then try and force him to be similar he needs to be his own frame, because he can do his own to support the team his own without having his 4th be a team support skill.

and who cares about if he is not an all out damage dealer or a frame with team utility, those kind and power creep are the reason why we blitz through content over and over. we have enough frames that are living nukes and frames that turn other frame into terminators. so whats wrong with a little bit of variety? now i know why DE says they want to avoid nuke frames but still end up doing them. it is because the community still craves them. the community despite them saying they don't want press 4 to win still deep down wants it still that way because it is the most efficient tactic available. they still want the press one button or key to win the game because it allows them to run past the grind. but the ironic part is that you end up ignoring whole fact of the game. and it is to have fun and then the stuff will come to you eventually.

Which is why I was suggesting to remove the held down version of his 3 ability, but rather change it to a field that can be ignited when using his 1 inside of it. Powerful burst, but it's positional and requires a little more attention then "pressing 4 to win".

Also, for someone about speed, he has an awkward time in keeping up his Battery in Redline when trying to melee, as you have to cast 1 very often in between attacks. This "dash and slash" feels good when moving from group to group, but stalls when one group isn't dieing as fast as needed. A similar thing happens when he actually stops dashing to shoot enemies. Another reason I mentioned that performing such actions should reduce the Battery drain, or at least stall it's reduction for a very brief moment. Maybe have Mach Rush give a small window of time where Battery can't be reduced during using it, and slightly after it is done being cast. Would also help the Kinetic Plating Battery drain.

He can fire weapons really fast, but then he chews through ammo too quickly. Hopefully they add some ammo recovery/reduced usage to his kit.

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My "issues" with Gauss:

Battery DRAIN when being hit could be lower. When being hit by multiple enemies, its hard to keep battery lvl even at 30% so no DR/Speed buff pretty much (well you should run adaptation for DR)

Battery GAIN from his 3 could be higher its simply waste of time using it and it cost much more energy than just using March Rush. So there is incentive actually using/charging battery with 3. Range could be slightly higher.

Let me steer better while actually speeding in March Rush.

His passive is simply useless, maybe for some niche build with arcanes but meh not worth.

Leave his Kinetic Plating as it is. Its actually awesome for QT tanking in very original way imo. If DE nerf his tankiness he become just worse Volt/Wisp.

 

I like how "selfish" Gauss is, still you can carry team by his mobility (awesome for interception/distruption and in defense i just grab vazarin since i dont need zenurik with my setup and melt stuff with Acceltra, can be anywhere on map in few seconds. And yes Nova/Wisp can do all this much better but w/e 😅  )

TBH hes in better spot at launch than Hildryn ever was/will be. SHE needs some love, Gauss is OK imo, hes lots of fun for me. Lets say his gameplay is thrilling.

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