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[DE]Danielle

(PC) Bow Stat Changes Feedback

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On 2019-08-29 at 9:34 AM, [DE]Danielle said:

This thread will be used to house your feedback <--- thankyou

hey i had an idea about katanas using the bow mechanics to charge up a energy beam and do some other nicer things, rightnow the katana feels somewhat dull, so maybe you can combine the katana and bow mechanics into something that works out awesome, throw in some shield and energy synthesis, mean while i feel as if th ebows need some automatic and semi pullshoots, the charged and regular shots feel the same and have nothing special going on, even on the cernos it feels really boring, where the bow mechanics really facinate me is with the katana, you can really get a good feel for this when you pull back the bow and press melee instead, it provides a nice swinging mechanic, but i think the bow mechanics can also workout with ice and fireballs abilities since they say theres a toggle after recasting a bunch, or that the players choose to use indirect attacks, wall shoots or shoot at the pickups and energy balls instead, remember airslash from star ocean? 

the other thing i wanna mention 

  • WALLSHOTS WITH BOW and other weapons - u gonna have to give players something to play with like PROTONSNAP as a PASSOVER trait otherwise they will quickly delete their bows because they are mad boring to use after a while until you add some combos, and robotic enhancements or something original with multishot, i only came up with some tap tap shots, and passive traits which trigger explosions and magic when shotting the same spot over and over again, and that some interesting effects are added if you charge a shoot, but maybe your team mates should also trigger some elemental and SFX of the bolts and shafts being a blink, or trap which is pushed further into crit, if you know wha am saying, but i am worried that each bow is not unique enough, repetitive sound effects and lack of functionality, especially when they are not in use and during melee, 
  • what about being down on the floor and a secondary bowgen or bow melee? stances?
  • hits with bow, blocks with bow?
  • additionally the bow upgrade screen needs unique schools and slots, maybe the whole arsenal can get a make over, the operators schools look nice, but they come too late into the game and have nothing to offer the lesser weapons and aughmentees, which is where i would love the relays and tenno to jump into missions more randomly to help other players at least with some fight or rewards at extraction with a bunch of robots and gun whisk, it worked out for the plains of eidolon,
  • heres some special ammo which pierces or calls up smoke and fire, or try one of these guns, hands you a katana or a energy bow
  • for a certain duration your shots are triggering electricity, and u have a little robot chasing you with a shield regardless of ur pet/for team attacks..
  • the closest thing is using frost 1st attack blasting the floor with ice could be more bowgen like, it has no features or recast enhancing powers, its funny to shoot at NPCs when testing, i would love some abilities to contain more bowcharge_mechanic, especially acrobatics and slidding, jumping which can be really awesome since alot of players dont use wall-latch or enemies, but as i said shooting the cannon feels like a bowshot with a proper AOE animation, cernos and paris bows could feature something of a trap which can be that some leylines and subliminotaurus bullets affect teamates, yeah and pucks, but allows the put shooter to stand on the same spots for reasons forbiden.
  • Paris Prime
  • also theres no added effects for retrieving bolts and shafts.
  •  enhancing that by using those pickups to improve the charged and tap mechanics for bows would look really cool.
  • used trigger moggy quiverments
  •  other passive traits learned from the indiansmells
  •  how this applies to the bow hunter
  • with the ammogy pickups and energy shoots,
  • double charged magic
  • U-bow like the dread with sugatra bells, would look interesting to have some additional explosionh trigger when the player has energy collected and tripples taps on the cernos gamaplay, critical hits appear blue, arrows consolidate into BEAMLASERS and riffle slotting for mod with a cap of 2, and some limitations, you can figure which cap you trhrow on a bow to alllow it to perform secondary and melee tricks,
  • energybow.capacity bowgen!
  • taking from a stanceMOD, allocate this to upgrade and bow level ups automatically earnieng combos and passives.
  • each mod_or stance could be used to trigger special shots and magic bullets.
  • quick bowing, double tapping the bow & tapping the  trigger should be different than charging shots, and look fasts, with reduced damage, there can be combos, and different applications to trigger explosions, status, and elementalist tricks, while adding a few special magical arrows and AOE slots that can be a robotic, or kitbow, and stance the players can focus on just tapping and using acrobatics, then they can run up to the arrows to retrive them and focus on casting or charging shots
  • say if you hold the trigger button with a street fighter controller that automatically repeats the same button the player should be throwing 5-12 arrows and eventually run out or switch into the secondary weapon, i think its called a repeating or auto-fire controller which really works well on dual and AKweapons and speed based mods, unless multishot triggers an explosion the players without a AUTOMATIC controller should have an advantage as well.
  • - can shoot faster less DPS arrows with status effects and elements, meanwhile,  shooting the same spot to break guard and shatter shields, deflecting bullets and direct hits would be next, but we need to also add some mechanics to slide and aerial shooting, we got the dread and cernos using really bad SFX3 and barely any passive traits or benefits,
  • decapitation should be second nature for the dread, stow passive / acrobatic / combos / bolts are enhanced by other weapons too, or charged attacks, maybe the pistol or a quick melee pushes the arrow in deeper from a team mate, so team attacks is triggering special animations added which lead to multishot, status and magical passive traits based on spiritual or.and syndicate focus branch,
  • maybe the players can get the cetus for a bow to quest, or upgrade it further with kit to combine it into a melee weapon and have a secondary-all-in-one feature.
Edited by SnakeBadger

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On 2019-09-08 at 1:44 AM, Skyfire151 said:

I've been... ambivalent about the visual changes.

The Dread is the only bow I currently use, so I can't comment on the others, but in isolation I can see the appeal of the new effects on it. There's something cinematic about them - it's a perfect fit for a scene like Excalibur shooting down the dropship in that recent trailer. Not necessarily going to appeal to everyone, but I don't think anything could - visuals are fundamentally subjective things.

Thing is, I bring the Dread as a stealth weapon - and now every shot I fire literally draws a line in the air between me and my target. That's pretty much the exact opposite of 'stealthy'...

yeah the cernos has the same problem, a after blow might fix the hit animation with proc elements and crits might seem like a better place to just use glow on special, like shooting form the AIR.

so aerial shots cause glows, while other new shots while sliding have are enfeebled or twice crit, the regular and duckshots should feature some passive effects which allow the tapping and charging channel or summon original things.to have  some different point animals and crest might seem interesting for players with schools and special syndicate mods, madurai symbol, or special explosion or beacon which can be left on the gras. and so on, for team mates to use and regenerating, or using for traps, i like the bolts and shafts of arrows to make great use.

shooting is too slow even with mods basically just affect charge,realod is worthles and modechange has barely any passive effects or use of energy or speed related instead of using a glow for a poison and venom breaking armor and stinging which can slightly knockback.

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On 2019-09-21 at 1:51 PM, Miyabi-sama said:

Changing stats was a great move. That long waited buff is very welcome. I have almost lost faith but here we are, finally bows are hitting several dozen percents harder.

On the other side bows are mechanically challenging and this change will be most noticed by "bowlovers".

Bows themselves are suffering from long reload and draw speed. Sometimes it can be remedied by utility mods sacrificing strength in favor of swiftness because the cost of missing shots is very high. Potentially fatal. Having this in consideration, the game certainly doesn't lacking frames buffing fire rate so high even Daikyu feels as fast as Rakta Cernos.

Also the great feature is different bows are evidently performing better in different circumstances. Thus said, bringing Dread for Sortie lvl Ambulas was clearly a mistake since we've wasted nearly 20 minutes just to fail in the end, not even Lenz guy could carry us out. But! Having put a little thought and bringing a simple Paris Prime crit/rad build (no rivens) improved situation tenfold. Hence having different bows with different stats doesnt feel redundant, not to mention every bow has its own "flavor".

In summary, bows' position havent changed drastically (aside of Daikyu, but this gonna be a very different topic since Dai undergone complete rebranding). It is still a solid kind of weapons, beautiful and strong.

Nothing will bring you more satisfaction than an accidental double/triple headshots with a single arrow during aimglide.

i like to see my current number of bullets 2 instead of 1 for my bows it just makes me feel really good, like i pull and reload but it does nothing special, so mooding my bow is really worthless to even consider 2Xbowspeed just really allows charged shots to be fast, its not that good or special and it makes the regular tap and recast, and reload practically worthless, am hopping they add faster continous and semi-automatic shots to the bows, and quivers, as well as other practical tools, like blocking and meleeing with bow, i've also said kitbows, and upgrades using the foundry instead of just relying on the mods and rivems for players  to use other NPC, schools and facilities across the startmap, thers so many planets, and barely any enemies who use bows or that have reasonable enthusiastic choices, theres sure is the artemis bow but from what i saw in the preview it wasnt that special compared to a normal bow and i've seen players complain, i have not played ivara, i just shoot the prime cernos, paris and dread that mom gave us, and i dont like the practical glowing or sound effects that i have to recast and bowing should change mid air to glow, and sounds per movement based laying down the husk with magnetic traps, electricity, and neuro-magic for retrieval and team supporting higher fire rates and ammo pickups to matter for shooting rapidly without requiring high skill and special abilities, each bow does sometimes havea special firing mode or secret, but reallydown to how players sped their time mooing, modding their guns and secondary weapons, which are not always flowing , practically ever try limbo with a bow? you teleport makes you lose your charge, maybe that the rifts could explode if triggered or that in the future you could teleport with an arrow with energy, but really down to just having a shield and robotic instead of a nerf in damge, shooting the same spot for added effects, retrieving arrows, and shooting stuff from far,

close range bow its awful nad should have some elbow, knife and kicking like the moveis, at least somethign with chiblasts, and psionics or dodging for the cause of not just looking robotic, missing and ducking quickly like the matrix are the only thoughts, i would say summuning creatures on each shot like a ghoulspirit or ghost instead, or throwing down miniature ice shields, and having some energy bows which are not pier or slice, but original kitbuilds like kitguns and swords get their own shop, bows should too.

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bows are still unusable trash, too slow for current speed meta.

only bow worth having is zhuge prime for bow only sorties because it's basically a gun but counts as a bow.

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I've used the Mutalist Cernos off and on for a while now and I really enjoy it's bizarre playstyle. Actually, I enjoy bizarre weapons in general. After some testing, I'll drop my thoughts on this.

Things I like

The damage is heavy!

I like having the additional AoE at the arrow's impact site. This is a huge boon to this status weapon.

I like that the clouds stick to Nullifiers now. These will eat away at the bubble until it disappears entirely! That is awesome!

Thunderbolt doesn't seem to eat the cloud anymore. Not sure if that old bug was fixed long ago, but it's nice that it's gone regardless.

 

Things I don't like

I think that the spore travel time is a bit too slow, still. It's not a horrible problem given the additional AoE at the site of the arrow's impact, but it would be nice to see this sped up a little.

There seems to be a rather unfortunate bug to the way the weapon functions now. I listed a detailed bug report here. When loaded up with maximum status effects, the last one seems to not work correctly unless the target is hit directly with the arrow. The clouds do not continue to proc the final status. This really eats into one of the very unique properties of this weapon because its innate status did -not- stack last like every other weapon in the game.

Overall feedback

I'm glad to see bonuses to bows. They are fun weapons even if they aren't popular. However, perhaps an opportunity for something unique could be applied? I suggest that, at rest, a press of the reload key will notch a second arrow. This, of course, would double arrow consumption so it wouldn't be long-term sustainable, but it might give bows a unique mechanic(other than being silent of course) similar to the combo multiplier given to sniper rifles.

If you read this all, thanks!

Edited by ArcKnight9202
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Ok, here we go!

Seems like Warframe was a horde shooter, remains a horde shooter and probably will be a horde shooter, not a single target one so:

Bows need an AOE mechanic.

My suggestion:

Uncharged shots should share the punch through but have NO "body moving" mechanics.

Charged shots should double the velocity of the arrows and have that "body punch through" mechanic and it should be improved a lot in range to collect enemies behind to be useful.

 

And yes as mentioned before - reload is pretty slow.

 

P.S: "I like the idea of 2 arrows in a magazine as x2 all multishot, bows are still too far from meta to be afraid of making it OP"

 

 

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8 hours ago, Scar.brother.help.me said:

Bows need an AOE mechanic

I'm pretty well against anything that makes all bows inherent AoE, but I don't mind opt-in mechanics for it like mods...

...so I'll point out that they conveniently already have one in the form of Thunderbolt.  It needs to be made a lot better, probably by scaling to an extent off of weapon damage, making it less chance based, and making the self damage less odious.

I have more complicated ideas, but revising Thunderbolt only absolutely requires changing one thing instead of a bunch of things.  And it has no effect on current bowplay for those who are fans of it, or just enjoy going old school from time to time.

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Honestly, a plain stat increasement can't save the bow - like sniper rifles, they are simply not the weapon for most of our gameplay because what we does is close-quarter gunfight that need to mop up a huge numbers of enemies at once(or fast). Bows, and sniper rifles are specialized at causing a lots of damage against a few targets, but you know Warframe lacks such enemies(or even if you encounters such enemies there are a lots of the other enemies that blocks the line of sight with it).

So, what you need to do if you ever want to save the bow is either of them;

-Make many types of missions that bows(and sniper rifles) are not so bad.

-Modify its trait to be fit with our current games.

The former is actually a bad way, for you can't force us to only play these missions and even on such missions we can take the other weapons(which is still better).

The latter... well, it is true that we don't expect an assault rifle when we check the bow. It doesn't need to be spit the arrow like as a machine gun. But perhaps there are some traits that would be usable for all bows.... You can view it with a grain of salt, for it is only some examples, and I don't think that bring all of them. Again, these are just the examples. And, Lenz is excluded from the suggestion - because it is the only functional bow in the most missions right now.

-Give Punch Through to all shots by default, not only fully charged one.

-Fully charged attack has more faster bullet speed or even make it hitscan.

-Give Stealth bonus like the melee weapon.

-Fully charged attack removes the corpse.

-Fully charged attack will bypass nullifier bubble - I think that sniper rifles are also have the right to claim this, for it is the marksman's purpose to clear the dangerous target.

 

Anyway, for now bows are even lacks a niche. It is not even a specialized weapon - it is only an inferior weapon group.

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