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Jax_Cavalera

POLL | What should DE do about the Riven Mod system?

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As the mighty Surt would do incase something would have to be redone properly, burn it all down. Though it is advicable to wear eye protection cos some loonie may try and stab your eye with a drinking horn.

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2 minutes ago, Alpha56 said:

I actually don't know what's the point of riven "adjustment", we don't even have numbers by DE of the use of weapons, but some are constantly nerfed at every riven disposition changes (see Lanka, Supra).

 

That is because Lanka and Supra are far above the point and DE only decreases in small portions each adjustment pass.

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il y a 7 minutes, SneakyErvin a dit :

That is because Lanka and Supra are far above the point and DE only decreases in small portions each adjustment pass.

Far above the point of what ? Damage don't change riven disposition.

My lanka riven was disposition 5/5 previously, now it 2/5, maybe 1/5 for the next disposition change ?

Sounds not right for me, it's like planned obsolescence.

And i don't see the lanka and Supra far above the point in use, because the riven disposition change is only made of used weapon %.

I don't encounter that much Supra owner, but his disposition is still going downhill.

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Just now, Alpha56 said:

My lanka riven was disposition 5/5 previously, now it 2/5, maybe 1/5 for the next disposition change ?

Sounds not right for me, it's like planned obsolescence for me.

They've changed it twice, there is no way you've gone from 5/5 to 2/5. Lanka started out at 3/5, middle of the pack and it has gotten the dispo adjusted by 0.4 iirc over the last two dispo changes, which means it went from low 3 to high 2.

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il y a 10 minutes, SneakyErvin a dit :

They've changed it twice, there is no way you've gone from 5/5 to 2/5. Lanka started out at 3/5, middle of the pack and it has gotten the dispo adjusted by 0.4 iirc over the last two dispo changes, which means it went from low 3 to high 2.

You are right, my mistake.

I wanted to speak about the Supra disposition that goes from 5/5 to 2/5.

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it was started as a system to buff weaker weapons

sadly it devolved into META buffers and indirect lootbox 

people pay IRL cash for slots and plat to buy these at moronic prices , to reroll and then resell at higher prices (loop and repeat) 

due to this its become a "cash cow" that gets milked as much as it can (now even arch guns & the once removed sentinel guns) 

at this point it dosnt do what it was intended and simple makes toxicity and lack of the ability to get rivens and kuva in any rate or easy amount forces this to be more then it should be

if we had rivens drop in normal missions and kuva be more per drop it could balance out and be ok, but seeing they have had years to fix this and the trade chat im doubtful, at this point remove it or make it do what it was built to do

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59 minutes ago, Xehalin said:

Rework the whole system. Reduce the effect of rng, make the gains from rivens into a progression system that you work on and build up slowly, add more stats to the pool so players can do more with their rivens and not just increase its dps, and introduce some kind of system that prevents trade abuse by capping out how much you can sell a riven for.

They're a group of players who buy out cheap, good rivens and resell them for ludicrous amounts of plat. They're known for heavy strong arm tactics, bullying, and generally just being nasty people. They will do anything to preserve the order of selling meta rivens, like ones for the rubico, for thousands to tens of thousands of plat, and cheating just about any honest player out of the most amount of plat that they can.

Here's a video from a popular warframe partner that talks about them a bit. There's likely more videos out there that cover the matter in greater depths should you decide you want to find out more, but here's one anyway.

 

the point i found most hypocritical about those mafia was " need to be good traders and not use a bot" but then they have a bot that does all that for them on their discord lol  (presumably at that time breaking the very same rules semlar did) so I would find irony as they should receive bans for doing the very same thing they reported him for at the time. now with the new setup on trade info (semlar helped with) its harder for them to screw people over, but they are still trying to do it on pc 

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I'd prefer rivens be an investment than a lottery ticket. IE, using kuva to lock in the stats you want and using kuva to boost them. None of this disposition changing nonsense either, I don't invest time in them anymore because of that, it's not worth feeling completely gutted if your favorite riven bites the dust, even if it does so slowly. I have a pretty solid riven for the Kohm with 100% status that has yet to take a hit, I'm assuming because they're rare and I don't see many people using the weapon anyway. If that gets ruined I'm just going to think even less of the game than I do these days. They put out rivens for a specific purpose  but it didn't do much to help that and kept them in the game seeing how much plat is being thrown around and now it's time to live with it. Don't mess around with the stats, allow people to lock stats in and boost them and at least you'll limit the burnout because you have a system in place now where you can throw all this kuva at a weapon and get absolutely nothing in return and that used to be demoralizing until I just took myself out of the riven game.

Of course if you could lock in stats you're going to see pretty much the same stats being sought after but it's not like people aren't striving for those already, they're just competing with the randomness of it all. 

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il y a 24 minutes, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako a dit :

it was started as a system to buff weaker weapons

sadly it devolved into META buffers and indirect lootbox 

people pay IRL cash for slots and plat to buy these at moronic prices , to reroll and then resell at higher prices (loop and repeat) 

due to this its become a "cash cow" that gets milked as much as it can (now even arch guns & the once removed sentinel guns) 

at this point it dosnt do what it was intended and simple makes toxicity and lack of the ability to get rivens and kuva in any rate or easy amount forces this to be more then it should be

if we had rivens drop in normal missions and kuva be more per drop it could balance out and be ok, but seeing they have had years to fix this and the trade chat im doubtful, at this point remove it or make it do what it was built to do

No.

It was started as a system to buff unused weapons.

And unused weapons are not meant to be less powerful, they can have a lack of game design (stats / balance / feeling / aesthetic).

Unused weapons can be powerful, and be even more powerful with disposition changes, because the players will still refuse to use it if they don't like it.

Overused weapons can be less powerful, and be even less powerful with disposition changes, because despite of the lack of damage, people really like to use the weapon due to a good game design.

This is where DE failed the most IMO.

 

DispositionEdit

The randomized attributes for Riven mods are affected by Disposition, a modifier provided by the system that collates the usage popularity of a given weapon across the entire player base.

 

 

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On 2019-08-30 at 10:44 PM, TheRealShade said:

Remove them, waste of time used only to further powercreep already powerful gear. The Riven system severely missed the mark.

this

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2 minutes ago, Alpha56 said:

No.

It was started as a system to buff unused weapons.

And unused weapons are not meant to be less powerful, they can have a lack of game design (stats / balance / feeling / aesthetic).

Unused weapons can be powerful, and be even more powerful with disposition changes, because the players will still refuse to use it if they don't like it.

Overused weapons can be less powerful, and be even less powerful with disposition changes, because despite of the lack of damage, people really like to use the weapon due to a good game design.

 

DispositionEdit

The randomized attributes for Riven mods are affected by Disposition, a modifier provided by the system that collates the usage popularity of a given weapon across the entire player base.

 

 

 

Just now, Alpha56 said:

Too late.

what was stated per dev streams was weaker and unused weapons specifically  , and the fact that the higher dispo weapons which vary from moderate use are the new  for 3 months till a prime release then re-balance (nerf/buff) rinse repeat for a few years now , the point overall was to promote variance in weapons  and builds, which now it fails at, nerf/buff rotates in the new 3 month metas rinse/ repeat. that isnt a real fix and shows the flaw that this system doesnt do the intended purpose and it can be fixed but overall like raids(soon to return per steve)  ANY system in warframe is up for temporary to permanent removal at DE's discretion. so it can be trashed or revamped at ANY time 

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I guess I'd vote to improve it in some way because as Rivens are now, I just ignore them entirely. Everything about them just seems like a time waster for something completely unnecessary. They have no value to me. Maybe if they changed Rivens so that they shake up how a weapon works mechanically, then I'd be interested. Like Napalm Grenades or Wild Frenzy. If Rivens worked more akin to Weapon Augments, I'd be totally invested.

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I was playing with my new Secura Lecta and trying to fit a Lecta riven I unveiled a long time ago onto it, before I realized it has a dispo of 0.5 and basically makes my weapon worse. Kinda wish that wasn't a thing.

I understand rivens exist to balance out current metas and strong weapons but c'mon it shouldn't make my weapon any worse than it is...

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Riven is a luxury item and sometimes a useless item. Either you grind hard to get god tier, or buy it. I don't see any problem with its system.

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I don't take the Riven mods serious, since they are more of a tool for "high" level units. The main issue here is that ALL content doesn't require a Riven. It's mainly just to challenge ESO or endless missions for the lulz.

In terms of killing power it just ain't worth wasting your time on them, if you do regular content. Kuva grinding is horrible and you're only dealing with pure RNG. Instead I just unveil them after getting that random one from Sorties now and then, and then either ditch it or consider saving it for a few rolls, when Kuva comes in from various rewards/bounties.

The system is fine for whoever want's to play it with, as long as it's not required for regular content. Though to be fair I could see a reduced Kuva reroll cost on disposition 5 items, so those items can be made more interesting for regular content.

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players: "we want endgame content!"

de: adds the only endgame content type that is proven to have proper longevity in form of rivens

players: "nooo, we dont want this, its ruining the game! its not even worth all the grind! game is too easy for it!"

de: adds slightly difficult challenges through nightwave

players: "de pls its too difficult!"

 

im sure you all get the point thats being made here. people will always complain about things that they cant get whenever they want it. same with rivens. 

rivens are a great system, it gives huge amounts of replayability to the game and what this game needs is more replayability, not less. if you think its a bad system, you can just, idk, not use it at all? theres simply no reason that how it would "destroy the game" for you other than self entitlement that you were supposed to get all the godtier rivens quickly. 

i do think it should have some little improvements here and there, but overall, its a system that quite a lot of people(mainly veterans) are much enjoying. 

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On 2019-08-29 at 6:26 PM, xXDeadsinxX said:

This and only this. 🙌

The entire Riven system as whole is just a massive band-aid which is rather unfortunate.

Contact me in game. I will help you get rid of these massive band-aids for free. 

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I would love for DE to show their own statistics around public usage of Riven Mods and even a De-Identified chart that maps out riven mod trade prices so we could see what the actual highs middle and low trade prices are at. Do players really spend 10k plat on a riven mod or is that hyperbole?

The more statistics and data we can get the better chance we have of backing up our claims with facts. That's been the main issue I think, players in general know what they think about a system like this but we haven't had enough solid data to go back to DE and say, "This is my opinion, and here is some data that backs it up", which is something they are definitely chasing based on that feedback post they starred about how to provide good feedback.

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Allow us to roll rivens with plat, and you can choose stat for each it adds an additional 0 to the end of platinum cost, everyones happy problem solved.

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On 2019-08-30 at 2:11 AM, trst said:

The system serves the intended purpose for most weapons.

"God-tier" Rivens however don't posses any purpose beyond bigger numbers on the enemies you already one-shot.

 

So long as DE continues to update dispositions I have no issue with the current system.

Pretty much my opinion on the matter too.  People need to stop feeling entitled towards having a clear path to a god-roll riven and accept that we were always meant to take "good enough."

I want rivens for the "fun" stats like fire rate, reload speed, mag size, etc.  Lotus knows the utility mods are garbage to begin with, and rivens are pretty much the best provider for decent utility boosts.  Hrm, 9 mod points and a slot for +30% magazine capacity... on a weapon that only has 8 rounds in it?  What is this bull$#!%?  But for 9/18 points, I can have +60-100% magazine capacity and something else to go along with it.  Basically super nightmare mods that let me have fun so long as I get a decent roll and non-crippling negatives.

I'd support letting us choose what stats we end up with on a riven, but then most people would go for god combos, and I doubt DE would be kosher with that.

Not that I'd care.  I'd get to customize my weapons more precisely to how I want them to work!

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23 hours ago, Lost_Cartographer said:

I'd support letting us choose what stats we end up with on a riven, but then most people would go for god combos, and I doubt DE would be kosher with that.

This is kind of where I landed on it as well. I'll admit I'm more of a salvage if we can type Tenno, though completely understand that in some cases it's more effective to simply cut losses.

When you create a topic about any kind of change, there are a lot of members who will come out swinging very loud about how everything is fine how it is right now and doesn't need to be changed even if they are a small sub-set from the total player-base. This makes it difficult to tell if they are actually representative of a dominant ideology or if it is just a very small group making a lot of noise.

My biggest take-away from the poll results so far has been that there is a significant majority (some 80%) of the community that believe the current Riven system has problems. Slightly more believe we should simply get rid of it, while others think there are things we can do to salvage it.

Initially I created it for use to determine if my own feedback post regarding a riven rework was out of alignment with public opinion. I didn't want to keep pushing an idea that wouldn't have a chance at getting support from the majority as that would be pretty futile so no matter the outcome, I really just needed to know 🙂

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As much as I love my rivens, I honestly think DE should just remove it, any boss becomes trivial, any node becomes trivial, I mean, we can solo bosses..... Pop, pop dead...That's how easy WF is, but if they remove it, they'll have a serious monetization problem ^^ on the other hand, we could have some pretty rough bosses that wouldn't rely on phases. Now the problem may not be only rivens, but certain skills also. But removing rivens would be a good start.

I really don't like nerfs, but....

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